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440 Engine upgrades #1574090 02/04/14 04:44 PM 02/04/14 04:44 PM
Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 173 PA R RoadRunner73 OP member
RoadRunner73 OP member R Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 173 PA	Looking to have my engine rebuilt that I have for my 73 RR, its a 73 440, from what I understand its stock (maybe a forged crank). I am going to send it to a machine shop to be gone through and painted and all things great, but what cost effective things can I have them to do get some extra bang for my buck without breaking my bank? I'm looking in the neighborhood of 3k for the whole deal... ----- 1973 Plymouth Road Runner

Re: 440 Engine upgrades [Re: RoadRunner73] #1574091 02/04/14 04:50 PM 02/04/14 04:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md Mr.Yuck Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck Not enough dumb comments...yet Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md	get your summit catalog out and have fun. For that kind of cash you are going to have to use all Summit brand stuff. Just try and get it as close to 9.5:1 as you can. [IMG]http://i66.tinypic.com/pui5j.jpg[/IMG] Coming soon!!!!

Re: 440 Engine upgrades [Re: Mr.Yuck] #1574092 02/04/14 06:36 PM 02/04/14 06:36 PM
Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 3,147 Central NC gch master
gch master Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 3,147 Central NC	That budget won't allow for much but compare the cost of redoing the stock heads vs. maybe selling the stock ones and getting some 440 source heads.Build the best/lightest(spinning assembly) shortblock you can.You can always upgrade the cam/top end later.Make use of the classifieds here for a deal on some good used parts as well.

Re: 440 Engine upgrades [Re: gch] #1574093 02/04/14 07:40 PM 02/04/14 07:40 PM
Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,163 CT GTX MATT master
GTX MATT master Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,163 CT	If you need to stick to 3K then don't get wrapped up in the "Might as wells" everyone here will tell you to go for, particularly in your cylinder heads. Check the guides. If it needs guides have them done, and get a valve job. If it doesn't need guides a valve job is your call, you can just hand lap them. Don't buy new valves. Do not pass go. Do not collect 200 dollars, and don't let everyone talk you into new valves, hardened seats, and guides so that they can switch you onto aluminum heads for 50 dollars more, because 3K doesn't have the budget for that. You will need springs to match whatever cam you want to run and locks and retainers to match the springs. Do you have any supporting mods already like headers, intake, or carb? Buy decent pistons for decent compression. Is 3K including assembly? Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street

Re: 440 Engine upgrades [Re: GTX MATT] #1574094 02/04/14 08:10 PM 02/04/14 08:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 20,825 A collage of whims topside Too Many Posts
topside Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 20,825 A collage of whims	I'm the King of starting with a low budget and turning it into an $8000 motor; don't be like me if you're serious about that $3000 budget. Assuming the thing runs OK now - no issues except being tired or needing a bit more power - and it's a street car, just give it 9.0 - 9.5:1 real calculated CR, the good ARP rod bolts, and a good 3-angle valve job, and get the thing close to zero deck for quench. Valve springs are probably weak/tired. A cast crank will be fine. Run a windage tray with the drain-back openings enlarged.

Re: 440 Engine upgrades [Re: topside] #1574095 02/04/14 09:53 PM 02/04/14 09:53 PM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada DaytonaTurbo Too Many Posts
DaytonaTurbo Too Many Posts Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada	he won't ahave quench with those heads but that's ok. get yourself the 'big' summit cam, new valve springs to match and keep the investment in the heads down. get a set of trw2355 pistons. they are close enough in weight to the stock pistons that you shouldn't need to rebalance and they will give you a decent compression ratio unlike those stock 73 pistons. have the block hot tanked, bored and honed and new cam bearings installed. that's it, no room in the budget for more. have your crank ground or polished for new bearings. have your stock rods reconditioned or buy redone stockers. they can often be had on ebay for cheap.

Re: 440 Engine upgrades [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #1574096 02/04/14 10:17 PM 02/04/14 10:17 PM
Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 3,813 Arlington, Texas B bobby66 master
bobby66 master B Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 3,813 Arlington, Texas	Quote: he won't ahave quench with those heads but that's ok. get yourself the 'big' summit cam, new valve springs to match and keep the investment in the heads down. get a set of trw2355 pistons. they are close enough in weight to the stock pistons that you shouldn't need to rebalance and they will give you a decent compression ratio unlike those stock 73 pistons. have the block hot tanked, bored and honed and new cam bearings installed. that's it, no room in the budget for more. have your crank ground or polished for new bearings. have your stock rods reconditioned or buy redone stockers. they can often be had on ebay for cheap. Good advise right here. Have the block milled for zero deck clearance with those pistons. The Summit cam is good for the price.

Re: 440 Engine upgrades [Re: RoadRunner73] #1574097 02/04/14 11:06 PM 02/04/14 11:06 PM
Joined: May 2008 Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado 451Mopar master
451Mopar master Joined: May 2008 Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado	Last year I came up with this parts list for a friends 440. It shows the base price with the sealed power Hyperutic pistons, and with forged pistons for $71.70 more. I also listed the Lunati cam kit which uses the three bolt timing set. The Comp XE series cams are nearly the same, and cost about the same too, but use a single bolt timing set. I have this in a spread sheet, but I don't know how to convert it to HTML, so I'll just scan it in as a jpeg image. 8026981-Scan0002.jpg (141 downloads)

Re: 440 Engine upgrades [Re: 451Mopar] #1574098 02/04/14 11:09 PM 02/04/14 11:09 PM
Joined: May 2008 Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado 451Mopar master
451Mopar master Joined: May 2008 Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado	Scan of basic engine measurements: 8026985-Scan0001.jpg (137 downloads)

Re: 440 Engine upgrades [Re: RoadRunner73] #1574099 02/04/14 11:36 PM 02/04/14 11:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 28,399 Posting from 1893 in NW FL TheBlueBeast Too Many Posts
TheBlueBeast Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 28,399 Posting from 1893 in NW FL	as the owner of a stock 73 440 short block. I agree with compression. get a new or real good set of used pistons. The 8.2 is death of real power. at 9.5 you will be miles ahead. I am running a Summit camshaft, Eddy Performer intake and Eddy 750 up top. Once you get some compression I'd look seriously at a set of headers as well. I went back to iron manifolds to make it look stock to the eye.

Re: 440 Engine upgrades [Re: TheBlueBeast] #1574100 02/05/14 02:01 AM 02/05/14 02:01 AM
Joined: Apr 2013 Posts: 441 Uranus S strokerchall mopar
strokerchall mopar S Joined: Apr 2013 Posts: 441 Uranus	search the BIG BLOCK CLASSIFIEDS for 1 already built and save the original block....if its the original once you've stroked it,you'll wish you stroked it sooner

Re: 440 Engine upgrades [Re: 451Mopar] #1574101 02/05/14 10:17 AM 02/05/14 10:17 AM
Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 173 PA R RoadRunner73 OP member
RoadRunner73 OP member R Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 173 PA	Quote: Last year I came up with this parts list for a friends 440. It shows the base price with the sealed power Hyperutic pistons, and with forged pistons for $71.70 more. I also listed the Lunati cam kit which uses the three bolt timing set. The Comp XE series cams are nearly the same, and cost about the same too, but use a single bolt timing set. I have this in a spread sheet, but I don't know how to convert it to HTML, so I'll just scan it in as a jpeg image. Thanks this is helpful - I don't know a ton about motor rebuilds (which is why I am taking it somewhere else!) Atleast if I can have parts on hand when I take the engine I am just looking at the work to cook it, paint it and rebuild (with any machine work also). ----- 1973 Plymouth Road Runner

Re: 440 Engine upgrades [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #1574102 02/05/14 10:21 AM 02/05/14 10:21 AM
Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 173 PA R RoadRunner73 OP member
RoadRunner73 OP member R Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 173 PA	Quote: he won't ahave quench with those heads but that's ok. get yourself the 'big' summit cam, new valve springs to match and keep the investment in the heads down. get a set of trw2355 pistons. they are close enough in weight to the stock pistons that you shouldn't need to rebalance and they will give you a decent compression ratio unlike those stock 73 pistons. have the block hot tanked, bored and honed and new cam bearings installed. that's it, no room in the budget for more. have your crank ground or polished for new bearings. have your stock rods reconditioned or buy redone stockers. they can often be had on ebay for cheap. Thanks for the info, i'll start searching the classifieds & internet for parts. Nice ride! ----- 1973 Plymouth Road Runner

Re: 440 Engine upgrades [Re: RoadRunner73] #1574103 02/05/14 11:20 AM 02/05/14 11:20 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,345 west palm beach, florida modelmakerinc top fuel
modelmakerinc top fuel Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,345 west palm beach, florida	If it is running and driving now, do not take it out to rebuild it, mostly on that budget. If you are not good friends with the machine shop then you will be spending way more than your wish. Find another complete engine and use it to rebuild. This way if you go over budget (which you will) the car is not sitting there. Plan on several hundred in extras as well, couple oil changes, new plugs, wires, hoses, belts, carb rebuild, ect. little stuff that often gets overlooked and adds up fast. Exceptional Architectural, Yacht and Automotive scale models. e-mail modelmakerinc@att.net for a portfolio review. www.modelmakerinc.com

Re: 440 Engine upgrades [Re: modelmakerinc] #1574104 02/05/14 11:51 AM 02/05/14 11:51 AM
Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 173 PA R RoadRunner73 OP member
RoadRunner73 OP member R Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 173 PA	This isn't the original engine - I purchased it, and unfortunately I dont have one in the car running now. I was told the engine I have runs... ----- 1973 Plymouth Road Runner

Re: 440 Engine upgrades [Re: RoadRunner73] #1574105 02/05/14 12:36 PM 02/05/14 12:36 PM
Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 11,836 Florida M mopar346 Let me tell ya about fat chicks!
mopar346 Let me tell ya about fat chicks! M Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 11,836 Florida	Build a solid bottom end, then you have the foundation for anything you want to do later. I run steel cranks and forged pistons in damn near everything just because. That way I never have to worry about which turn the build takes later. Cast iron heads will make good horse power, yes you can get more out of something else but that is always the case. Careful, your character's showing!

Re: 440 Engine upgrades [Re: 451Mopar] #1574106 02/06/14 05:06 AM 02/06/14 05:06 AM
Joined: May 2008 Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado 451Mopar master
451Mopar master Joined: May 2008 Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado	The prices listed were from last year, and I was just looking up the forged lightweight Speed Pro piston LW2355F30, and it is hard to find on line. The piston is a lighter weight (by about 100 grams) L2355F30 piston, and when I priced them last year there was only a few dollars difference (looked like a great deal for a forged piston.) You would have to call Summit or your machine shop to see what the cost is and how long to get them. Speed Pro still lists them in their catalog. I have had the machine shop beat some of the mail order prices, so it's worth checking. Work with the machine shop to get the correct size overbore pistons, and bearings if the turn the crank. I also noticed I had two gasket sets in the list, so that should knock about $50 off the total. The list also added 0.020" head gaskets for more compression with stock iron heads, but the Fel-Pro gasket kits include 0.040" head gaskets which work good with the closed chamber aluminum heads. The viton rear main seal is expensive, but seals better than the rubber ones in the gasket kit. Both pistons I listed use 1/16" thick piston rings which is different than the standard 5/64" rings, and the rings listed are file-fit piston rings. I also listed a more expensive cam bearing kit than standard. I install my cam bearings (have the tools), but your machine shop should install and size the cam bearing for you, unless you know how. Make sure to have them check your cam for fit before you take the block home. Also, have them install the ARP rod bolts before resizing the rods.

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