528 engine not sitting level
#1556850
12/31/13 03:41 PM
12/31/13 03:41 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 73
Toronto,Canada
wkeggenhoff
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Toronto,Canada
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Have a 69 charger, crate 528 hemi, Schemacher engine mounts and TTI 2 1/8 headers.5spd TKO Keisler tranny
When I had this engine installed with a 383 sat level in car.
Fan spacing was even top to bottom being parallel to core.
Now with Hemi sits low at firewall. Spacing at rad maybe 3.5 " at top 1" at bottom.Headers seem to hang down quit a bit as well.
Anyone else have this combo ?
Tried spacing tranny further up but hits floor.Short of cutting out more dont know what else to do.
Looks like there is room for it to go up looking at headers and where the bends are for suspension etc.Doesn't seem to bother engine not being level
other than I want to install a rad shroud to stop overheat in stop and go traffic.
Any comments would be greaty appreciated
69 dodge charger,528 Hemi,Keisler TKO 5spd, Mosier 60 rear end
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Re: 528 engine not sitting level
[Re: wkeggenhoff]
#1556851
12/31/13 03:45 PM
12/31/13 03:45 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,848
Memphis
HemiRick
master
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master
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Memphis
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All I can say is I have the same combo in a 68 Charger with stock mounts and the engine is level....must be the Shumacner mounts causing your issue.
Take care,
Rick
68 Coronet R/T 440 & 68 Charger 528 Hemi,and 5 Challengers! 6 cyl, 318, 360, 383, 451
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Re: 528 engine not sitting level
[Re: wkeggenhoff]
#1556853
12/31/13 07:23 PM
12/31/13 07:23 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
DAYCLONA
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I Live Here
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My recommendation, having been there, done this, is to modify the tailshaft of the TKO by cutting off any casting ribs, esp on top of the tailshaft, and the forward unused ear tabs on top of the tranny near the bellhousing, these usually hit the tunnel on the passenger side, did you install a factory 4 spd hump?, or the sheetmetal "patch" supplied with your kit?, I would also loosen as many motor mount bolts, let the engine sit on it's own weight in the K, then tighten all the bolts up, you may also need to fold the pinchweld rearward around the firewall to transmission tunnel transition area slightly to gain more room around the bellhousing when you raise the tail of the tranny higher, you should be able to gain 1"+, you'll need to fab a spacer for the poly transmission mount...this should bring your driveline angle back to stock, I would use an inclination meter to confirm driveline angle, driveshaft angle, and pinion angle...are you using the TKO tranny mount or a modified factory piece
Mike
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Re: 528 engine not sitting level
[Re: DAYCLONA]
#1556854
12/31/13 08:41 PM
12/31/13 08:41 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,023
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
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Quote:
My recommendation, having been there, done this, is to modify the tailshaft of the TKO by cutting off any casting ribs, esp on top of the tailshaft, and the forward unused ear tabs on top of the tranny near the bellhousing, these usually hit the tunnel on the passenger side, did you install a factory 4 spd hump?, or the sheetmetal "patch" supplied with your kit?, I would also loosen as many motor mount bolts, let the engine sit on it's own weight in the K, then tighten all the bolts up, you may also need to fold the pinchweld rearward around the firewall to transmission tunnel transition area slightly to gain more room around the bellhousing when you raise the tail of the tranny higher, you should be able to gain 1"+, you'll need to fab a spacer for the poly transmission mount...this should bring your driveline angle back to stock, I would use an inclination meter to confirm driveline angle, driveshaft angle, and pinion angle...are you using the TKO tranny mount or a modified factory piece
Mike
^^^^ Listen to this guy.
The reason it is sitting at an angle isbecause of the Kiesler no hack fit, it's a compromise otherwise Mopar owners would never buy it if they knew they were required to cut on the car for a correct driveline angle .
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Re: 528 engine not sitting level
[Re: JohnRR]
#1556855
01/01/14 01:14 AM
01/01/14 01:14 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
DAYCLONA
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I Live Here
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Quote:
Quote:
My recommendation, having been there, done this, is to modify the tailshaft of the TKO by cutting off any casting ribs, esp on top of the tailshaft, and the forward unused ear tabs on top of the tranny near the bellhousing, these usually hit the tunnel on the passenger side, did you install a factory 4 spd hump?, or the sheetmetal "patch" supplied with your kit?, I would also loosen as many motor mount bolts, let the engine sit on it's own weight in the K, then tighten all the bolts up, you may also need to fold the pinchweld rearward around the firewall to transmission tunnel transition area slightly to gain more room around the bellhousing when you raise the tail of the tranny higher, you should be able to gain 1"+, you'll need to fab a spacer for the poly transmission mount...this should bring your driveline angle back to stock, I would use an inclination meter to confirm driveline angle, driveshaft angle, and pinion angle...are you using the TKO tranny mount or a modified factory piece
Mike
^^^^ Listen to this guy.
The reason it is sitting at an angle isbecause of the Kiesler no hack fit, it's a compromise otherwise Mopar owners would never buy it if they knew they were required to cut on the car for a correct driveline angle .
agreed, part of the problem, esp if it's an early kit, Keisler was reluctant to modify the exterior transmission case, other than where the shift tower mods were made, I'd rather slim down the outside case of ribs, tabs, bosses, etc that are the biggest cause of interference in getting the tranny stuffed into the tunnel, and establishing a "stock" driveline angle, plus Keisler's insistence on using their sheetmetal patch to create a manual hump in a once automatic car, you need all the room you can get, as the TKO is an extremely tall case design, so afactory 4spd hump helps out a lot, plus cleaning up a lot of the floor/crossmember of excess metal flange slop left by the factory, you need to massage the entire tunnel/floor and crossmenber for every ounce of room you can get in the 2nd Gen Charger
...I have no issues with cutting floors for clearance, but like I said the tranny has a lot of excess that can be shed, that won't affect the transmission in any way, so before you take a blade or cutting/flapwheel to the car, trim the tranny
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Re: 528 engine not sitting level
[Re: NITROUSN]
#1556857
01/01/14 10:23 PM
01/01/14 10:23 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,848
Memphis
HemiRick
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Posts: 4,848
Memphis
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My car was an auto and I did not add the 4 sp hump and at 1st I thought that pic was my car! I do recall grinding stuff off the outside of the tranny to make it fit nicely. I put mine in about 10 years ago.
Take care,
Rick
68 Coronet R/T 440 & 68 Charger 528 Hemi,and 5 Challengers! 6 cyl, 318, 360, 383, 451
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Re: 528 engine not sitting level
[Re: HemiRick]
#1556858
01/01/14 11:42 PM
01/01/14 11:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,785
Utah and Alaska
astjp2
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Utah and Alaska
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Just call Al Debevec to get a Hemi K-member and mounts. Problem solved! 715-267-7141
1941 Taylorcraft
1968 Charger
1994 Wrangler
1998 Wrangler
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Re: 528 engine not sitting level
[Re: NITROUSN]
#1556859
01/01/14 11:43 PM
01/01/14 11:43 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
DAYCLONA
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Quote:
If you had an automatic here is what it looks like. No big deal. Did you buy a complete kit from Keisler?
Pete your Keisler install is a good display of how much you need to cut the floor out to get the top of the tranny and shift tower up into the hump for proper driveline angle, most guys won't/or are not aware of the need to trim out the floor this much, using the Keisler TKO mount(as is, without modification) allows the shift tower baseplate to sit under the stock floor on most of the early kits dropping the driveline angle too low, I know Keisler has made changes to the 2nd Gen B body kits over the years (my 2nd Gen Charger was one of the early prototype installs over a decade ago of the TKO, and my feedback to Keisler is basically what I still relay to date)....I do recommend after cutting the floor to add a 4spd hump, as the OD does create a good amount of heat on long duration runs at speed, and the added room helps with air circulation
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Re: 528 engine not sitting level
[Re: astjp2]
#1556860
01/01/14 11:44 PM
01/01/14 11:44 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
DAYCLONA
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I Live Here
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Quote:
Just call Al Debevec to get a Hemi K-member and mounts. Problem solved! 715-267-7141
That's not the issue at hand...
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Re: 528 engine not sitting level
[Re: DAYCLONA]
#1556861
01/02/14 12:41 AM
01/02/14 12:41 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,423
UPPER MICHIGAN, MARQUETTE COUN...
NITROUSN
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Quote:
Pete your Keisler install is a good display of how much you need to cut the floor out to get the top of the tranny and shift tower up into the hump for proper driveline angle, most guys won't/or are not aware of the need to trim out the floor this much, using the Keisler TKO mount(as is, without modification) allows the shift tower baseplate to sit under the stock floor on most of the early kits dropping the driveline angle too low, I know Keisler has made changes to the 2nd Gen B body kits over the years (my 2nd Gen Charger was one of the early prototype installs over a decade ago of the TKO, and my feedback to Keisler is basically what I still relay to date)....I do recommend after cutting the floor to add a 4spd hump, as the OD does create a good amount of heat on long duration runs at speed, and the added room helps with air circulation
Mike in this photo the rear of the transmission is higher than the ride position. The cross member bolts were loose so I jacked it as high as it could go for fitment on the Keisler cover plate. In hind sight I would of made my own cover with a smaller sub cover to allow shift tower removal in case the transmission needed to come out. I can still cut and do that if needed. Just one of those after thoughts on how can I make it better. I will post 2 more pics of one with the cover plate on and the other showing a finished floor.
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Re: 528 engine not sitting level
[Re: NITROUSN]
#1556863
01/02/14 12:51 AM
01/02/14 12:51 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,431
SK,Canada
gregsrt
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,431
SK,Canada
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My Schumacher mounts on my wedge hit the block with the through bolt on the pass side. Took a bit to figure it out but I cut the bolt down and it fit perfect. Not sure if the hemi mount is similar or not but food for thought.
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Thomas Jefferson
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Re: 528 engine not sitting level
[Re: astjp2]
#1556865
01/02/14 12:50 PM
01/02/14 12:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,023
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
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Quote:
Just call Al Debevec to get a Hemi K-member and mounts. Problem solved! 715-267-7141
WRONG , the Kiesler trans mount is the problem not the engine mounts ... the mounts may make it worse but the root cause is the trans and it's crossmember.
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Re: 528 engine not sitting level
[Re: NITROUSN]
#1556866
01/02/14 12:54 PM
01/02/14 12:54 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,023
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
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Quote:
Pic 2
Nice work Pete , you definitely want to consider opening that up so you can get that shift tower off.
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Re: 528 engine not sitting level
[Re: DAYCLONA]
#1556867
01/02/14 01:58 PM
01/02/14 01:58 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 73
Toronto,Canada
wkeggenhoff
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Toronto,Canada
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Thanks guys for all the information, wasn't aware of all the cutting and mods needed. Just bolted unit in as per Keisler instructions. Been in car now for 6 years now. Maybe spring will drop it out and make the changes. Good to know I wasn't the only one with this issue. These pictures are a great help
Thanks guys
69 dodge charger,528 Hemi,Keisler TKO 5spd, Mosier 60 rear end
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Re: 528 engine not sitting level
[Re: JohnRR]
#1556868
01/02/14 03:21 PM
01/02/14 03:21 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
DAYCLONA
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2007
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Quote:
Quote:
Pic 2
Nice work Pete , you definitely want to consider opening that up so you can get that shift tower off.
John, he looks like he has enough clearance to unbolt the shift tower, there's 2 diagonal Allen head bolts in the tower itself under the boot, no need to remove the 4 bolts holding the main plate over the shift rods, on the 68-70 B body application you really need to remove the shift tower for install/removal because the tower is very tall, and it sits right near the top of the torsion bar brace, and really allows no room to slide the tranny back on the mainshaft for removal, I know the Keisler install manual recommends turning the tranny 90 degrees during install, and once the shift tower is clear to rotate the tranny to position, which is insane  ...just for those that decide to remove the shift tower, do it with the tranny in neutral, only 2 Allen bolts, but remember the flat milled into the shift nub faces the drivers side, as you can accidently install the shift tower 180 degrees, and doing so, it will trow your shifter off to the passenger side anywhere from 3/4" to 1 1/2" depending on any offset bracket used when bolting up your stick... 
mike
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