X-block sonic test results
#1553642
12/26/13 09:55 PM
12/26/13 09:55 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 128 Finland
mopster
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Iīm starting a small block build, half race half street use, n/a E85, around 13:1 compression. Iīm using X-block and plan is to use 4.125" crank and 4.08" bore. I need the block to handle 700hp.
Now the sonic numbers are very nice from the thrust sides all around, but there are core shift in non-thrust direction. Worst spots are only .090" in cyl 4 and 8. I tested the block myself with Dakota Ultrasonics PR-82 tester which I calibrated before the test. I took a lot of readings and nothing was left unnoticed.
The block is now in 4.04" size, and I was thinking the bore centerlines could be moved about .020" in non-thrust direction when it gets bored .040" bigger. That way those thin walls wouldnīt get much more thinner really, but the guestion is, are they too thin already? If it was a production block then that would be the case, but this is more rigid raceblock with high nickel casting so Iīm not quite sure. I will consider sleeves if itīs too risky wihout them.
Last edited by mopster; 12/26/13 09:56 PM.
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Re: X-block sonic test results
[Re: 1967dartgt]
#1553644
12/27/13 02:09 AM
12/27/13 02:09 AM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 253 Saskatchewan (SK)
79410aspenrt
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My x block is sleeved. 4.100 bore and 4.125 molnar crank. 4 bolt mains, half fill.
652 hp at 6800 rpm and 590 ft lbs at 4800 rpm.
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Re: X-block sonic test results
[Re: Oyvind Mopar]
#1553647
12/27/13 08:19 AM
12/27/13 08:19 AM
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 413 Norway (old world)
Oyvind Mopar
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mopar
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Maybe I missed your point; is it strong enough already? I would say the block will be weakened with sleeves, but the sleeved cylinders will be fine. So, how thick do you want the sleeves? With the thin spots a proper sleeve will go through. A thin sleeve will weaken the old cylinder where it is thin so it can crack, then the whole culinder will be deformed. If you go thick: This means it will be a half wet - half dry sleeve, and coolant can get in between. Could be some issues there. When this happens to me I machine away the whole cylinder and add a thick sleeve, preferably with a small flange on top. A thick sleeve means appx 0.2" thick. This is less than your good cylinders, and the support from the remains is not worth much when they are not all around the circle. I would say that sleeves can be added anytime, but the original block is at your hand now. And, for racing you will always have some maintenance dismantling, checking etc., so the workload would not matter too much if you need to redo it. Try it as it is! My
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Re: X-block sonic test results
[Re: Oyvind Mopar]
#1553650
12/27/13 11:53 AM
12/27/13 11:53 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,448 Phoenix, AZ
MoparBilly
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Two things I don't do: Follow my Wife around when she's "out" with friends, and sonic check blocks! Some things in life you're just better off not knowing!
My 4 bolt X block has been running High 10's, low 11's since the 90's at 4.040, just bought a BPE kit, 4.125 crank and 4.070 bore. Want us to sonic check that for ya? No Thanks!
"Livin' in a powder keg and givin' off sparks"
4 Street cars, 5 Race engines
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Re: X-block sonic test results
[Re: MoparBilly]
#1553651
12/27/13 12:32 PM
12/27/13 12:32 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 21,054 in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 21,054
in a cattle trailer down by th...
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Will it clean up at 4.060?
"Come get your wife"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion. '74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Front and rear disc and hydroboost conversion. 2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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Re: X-block sonic test results
[Re: Crizila]
#1553654
12/27/13 02:57 PM
12/27/13 02:57 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 253 Saskatchewan (SK)
79410aspenrt
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mine has been sleeved for years, must be 10 for sure. they put in bigger sleeves so I could bore out more then 1 time. it was bored to 4.080 in 2005 and I took it to 4.100 this spring.
never any problems with the sleeves. it seen 8500 rpm for a lot of years.
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Re: X-block sonic test results
[Re: 1967dartgt]
#1553655
12/27/13 07:16 PM
12/27/13 07:16 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,578
KOS
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pro stock
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Quote:
I would sleeve it and go 4.100 bore.
i agree...... better ring selection also at that bore vs 4.080
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Re: X-block sonic test results
[Re: Guitar Jones]
#1553656
12/27/13 08:25 PM
12/27/13 08:25 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 128 Finland
mopster
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Quote:
Will it clean up at 4.060?
It doesnīt really matter if it will be bored another .020" or .040" because bore centers will be moved, and as little as possible will be cut from the thin sides. Theres plenty of meat in all the other walls, and also combustion chamber fitment is not a problem since the heads for this engine is still as cast and I can match them after the block is done. The thinnest spots will end up around .080" without sleeves.
The question is can it handle 700hp and 13:1 compression that way or does it have to be sleeved? And if so, how many sleeves and how thick? Does it matter if part of the cylinder goes through into water? Taking out the whole cylinder sounds a bit extreme to me Not easy guesions but all input is appreciated.
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Re: X-block sonic test results
[Re: MoparBilly]
#1553657
12/28/13 12:41 AM
12/28/13 12:41 AM
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Joined: May 2003
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I Live Here
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Quote:
Two things I don't do: Follow my Wife around when she's "out" with friends, and sonic check blocks! Some things in life you're just better off not knowing!
My 4 bolt X block has been running High 10's, low 11's since the 90's at 4.040, just bought a BPE kit, 4.125 crank and 4.070 bore. Want us to sonic check that for ya? No Thanks!
I had my new R3 block sonic checked..... it was GOLD!! ....but I'm not looking for "high 10's low 11's" either.. been there done that.
....but the Mirada RB block was never sonic checked, or filled and that poster child for scrap metal was dishing out 9.9 passes! would love to have that block checked!!
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Re: X-block sonic test results
[Re: mopster]
#1553658
12/28/13 02:20 PM
12/28/13 02:20 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 128 Finland
mopster
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Quote:
Does it matter if part of the cylinder goes through into water? Taking out the whole cylinder sounds a bit extreme to me Not easy guesions but all input is appreciated.
On the other hand, if a thick sleeve is installed, there is not much left of the original cylinder. It may be only one wall that still has enough meat to add strenght to the block.
Oyvind, has there been trouble with the blocks after removing a cylinder and replacing it with a thick sleeve. Have you done more than one from same side?
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Re: X-block sonic test results
[Re: 79410aspenrt]
#1553660
12/29/13 08:43 PM
12/29/13 08:43 PM
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Quote:
mine has been sleeved for years, must be 10 for sure. they put in bigger sleeves so I could bore out more then 1 time. it was bored to 4.080 in 2005 and I took it to 4.100 this spring.
never any problems with the sleeves. it seen 8500 rpm for a lot of years.
So you have thick sleeves, how many? Are they in the same side?
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Re: X-block sonic test results
[Re: mopster]
#1553661
12/29/13 09:07 PM
12/29/13 09:07 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 253 Saskatchewan (SK)
79410aspenrt
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I have 3 sleeves. 2 on drivers side and 1 on passenger side.
I was advised to put thicker sleeves in for future rebuilds.
don't know if it matters but at 4.080'' it seen 8500 rpm for years.
now it's at 4.100'' and sees 7100 rpm in my 3800 lbs R/T.
13.1 comp with iron heads.
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