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Roll cage knee bar #1544961 12/07/13 09:28 PM 12/07/13 09:28 PM
Joined: Aug 2008 Posts: 4,085 Mo. racerx OP master
racerx OP master Joined: Aug 2008 Posts: 4,085 Mo.	For the guys that run a knee bar that interests your a-pillar,do anyone know if it's an NHRA requirement for the ends of the bar(knee-bar)to be welded to the kick panels or can they just be cap and welded? ...........Thax

Re: Roll cage knee bar [Re: racerx] #1544962 12/07/13 09:38 PM 12/07/13 09:38 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Just has to be attached to the down bars at the A- pillars

Re: Roll cage knee bar [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1544963 12/07/13 09:52 PM 12/07/13 09:52 PM
Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 4,330 Lynchburg, VA Leon441 master
Leon441 master Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 4,330 Lynchburg, VA	When you cap and welded. I assume you mean if the intersect the A-pilar bar. Yes they can be cap welded. The proper name, if I understand correctly is the dash bar. If the bar intersects it has to be 1 5/8" diameter. It can be 1 1/4" if it just welds onto the A-pilar bars. Leon Career best 8.02 @ 169 at 3050# and 10" tires small block power.

Re: Roll cage knee bar [Re: Leon441] #1544964 12/08/13 02:15 PM 12/08/13 02:15 PM
Joined: Aug 2008 Posts: 4,085 Mo. racerx OP master
racerx OP master Joined: Aug 2008 Posts: 4,085 Mo.	Thaxs I've been looking at some of the pro-built cage here and over on the bullet and notice that the knee/dash bars that were intersected were welded to the kick panels and did not know if it were an NHRA thing or what................

Re: Roll cage knee bar [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1544965 12/08/13 02:29 PM 12/08/13 02:29 PM
Joined: Aug 2008 Posts: 4,085 Mo. racerx OP master
racerx OP master Joined: Aug 2008 Posts: 4,085 Mo.	Mr.P u posted a thread awhile back on fitting the dash(or something of that nature)around the a-pillars i was wondering what was done to solve the problem.............Thax.

Re: Roll cage knee bar [Re: racerx] #1544966 12/08/13 02:31 PM 12/08/13 02:31 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Quote: Thaxs I've been looking at some of the pro-built cage here and over on the bullet and notice that the knee/dash bars that were intersected were welded to the kick panels and did not know if it were an NHRA thing or what................ The more attachment points the better but IF you have flex it will apply it to the body if its attached at that point

Re: Roll cage knee bar [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1544967 12/08/13 06:40 PM 12/08/13 06:40 PM
Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 4,330 Lynchburg, VA Leon441 master
Leon441 master Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 4,330 Lynchburg, VA	If your cage is tied to the rockers and or stock sub frames I would tie the dash bar to the A-pillar sheet metal as well. If the body is not tied well such as cars with no floors and basically the body just hangs by the tubs and sheet metal then I would not. If it is somewhere between I probably would not either. Leon Career best 8.02 @ 169 at 3050# and 10" tires small block power.

Re: Roll cage knee bar [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1544968 12/09/13 01:00 PM 12/09/13 01:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 4,590 Motor City 6 6PKRTSE master
6PKRTSE master 6 Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 4,590 Motor City	Quote: Just has to be attached to the down bars at the A- pillars Racer X, Just has to be like Mr. P Body said to pass Tech. I just chose to also tie mine into the kick panels on my car. 1963 Belvedere 440 Max Wedge Tribute 1970 Charger R/T S.E. 440 Six Pack 1970 Challenger R/T, 528 Hemi 1970 Charger 500 S.E. 440 4 BBL 1970 Plymouth Road Runner 383 1974 Chrysler New Yorker 440 1996 2500 RAM 488 V-10 4X4 2004 3500 Dually Cummins 4x4 2012 Challenger R/T Classic.

Re: Roll cage knee bar [Re: 6PKRTSE] #1544969 12/09/13 10:36 PM 12/09/13 10:36 PM
Joined: Aug 2008 Posts: 4,085 Mo. racerx OP master
racerx OP master Joined: Aug 2008 Posts: 4,085 Mo.	Thax Gents:

Re: Roll cage knee bar [Re: racerx] #1544970 12/10/13 02:35 PM 12/10/13 02:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 4,590 Motor City 6 6PKRTSE master
6PKRTSE master 6 Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 4,590 Motor City	I posted in the cage post this picture. This is another picture if this helps. 7954244-100_1512.jpg (596 downloads) 1963 Belvedere 440 Max Wedge Tribute 1970 Charger R/T S.E. 440 Six Pack 1970 Challenger R/T, 528 Hemi 1970 Charger 500 S.E. 440 4 BBL 1970 Plymouth Road Runner 383 1974 Chrysler New Yorker 440 1996 2500 RAM 488 V-10 4X4 2004 3500 Dually Cummins 4x4 2012 Challenger R/T Classic.

Re: Roll cage knee bar [Re: 6PKRTSE] #1544971 12/11/13 12:44 AM 12/11/13 12:44 AM
Joined: Aug 2008 Posts: 4,085 Mo. racerx OP master
racerx OP master Joined: Aug 2008 Posts: 4,085 Mo.	Yes that's what i wanted to se

Re: Roll cage knee bar [Re: 6PKRTSE] #1544972 12/11/13 09:39 AM 12/11/13 09:39 AM
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 9,910 Eighty Four, PA B G Racing master
B G Racing master Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 9,910 Eighty Four, PA	Quote: I posted in the cage post this picture. This is another picture if this helps. If that upper most bar is the piller bar then it will not pass NHRA SFI specs it must continue to the floor or have a bar directly under it that continues to the attachment point. [IMG]http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq21/ajcasini/max_zpsdppwd9km.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Roll cage knee bar [Re: B G Racing] #1544973 12/11/13 03:22 PM 12/11/13 03:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 4,590 Motor City 6 6PKRTSE master
6PKRTSE master 6 Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 4,590 Motor City	Quote: Quote: I posted in the cage post this picture. This is another picture if this helps. If that upper most bar is the piller bar then it will not pass NHRA SFI specs it must continue to the floor or have a bar directly under it that continues to the attachment point. It passed & they commented how they liked it tied into the kick panels. 25.5 sticker is good until 2014. 7955405-100_1670[640x480].jpg (229 downloads) 1963 Belvedere 440 Max Wedge Tribute 1970 Charger R/T S.E. 440 Six Pack 1970 Challenger R/T, 528 Hemi 1970 Charger 500 S.E. 440 4 BBL 1970 Plymouth Road Runner 383 1974 Chrysler New Yorker 440 1996 2500 RAM 488 V-10 4X4 2004 3500 Dually Cummins 4x4 2012 Challenger R/T Classic.

Re: Roll cage knee bar [Re: 6PKRTSE] #1544974 12/11/13 03:35 PM 12/11/13 03:35 PM
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 9,910 Eighty Four, PA B G Racing master
B G Racing master Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 9,910 Eighty Four, PA	Quote: Quote: Quote: I posted in the cage post this picture. This is another picture if this helps. If that upper most bar is the piller bar then it will not pass NHRA SFI specs it must continue to the floor or have a bar directly under it that continues to the attachment point. It passed & they commented how they liked it tied into the kick panels. 25.5 sticker is good until 2014. That's great they passed it. [IMG]http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq21/ajcasini/max_zpsdppwd9km.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Roll cage knee bar [Re: B G Racing] #1544975 12/11/13 03:39 PM 12/11/13 03:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 4,590 Motor City 6 6PKRTSE master
6PKRTSE master 6 Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 4,590 Motor City	I have seen 3 other cars done this way & they were all 25.5 certed before mine. I got the idea from Stef's old Challenger pictures & his also passed & had a 25.5 cert. We just copied it. 1963 Belvedere 440 Max Wedge Tribute 1970 Charger R/T S.E. 440 Six Pack 1970 Challenger R/T, 528 Hemi 1970 Charger 500 S.E. 440 4 BBL 1970 Plymouth Road Runner 383 1974 Chrysler New Yorker 440 1996 2500 RAM 488 V-10 4X4 2004 3500 Dually Cummins 4x4 2012 Challenger R/T Classic.

Re: Roll cage knee bar [Re: 6PKRTSE] #1544976 12/11/13 03:47 PM 12/11/13 03:47 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Quote: I have seen 3 other cars done this way & they were all 25.5 certed before mine. I got the idea from Stef's old Challenger pictures & his also passed & had a 25.5 cert. We just copied it. I think the only reason it passed is because its welded to the kick panel area... you changed the load path with the down bar inward... but being its welded to the KP and its a short distance... if that knee bar was hanging out in space it wouldnt have passed

Re: Roll cage knee bar [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1544977 12/11/13 04:24 PM 12/11/13 04:24 PM
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 9,910 Eighty Four, PA B G Racing master
B G Racing master Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 9,910 Eighty Four, PA	Quote: Quote: I have seen 3 other cars done this way & they were all 25.5 certed before mine. I got the idea from Stef's old Challenger pictures & his also passed & had a 25.5 cert. We just copied it. I think the only reason it passed is because its welded to the kick panel area... you changed the load path with the down bar inward... but being its welded to the KP and its a short distance... if that knee bar was hanging out in space it wouldnt have passed The reason I questioned it is according to SFI any of the main cage structure,hoops,piller bars,down bars and side bars must be in a continious plane or if intersected must have a continious plane bar at the intersection continueing to the attachment point on the floor or frame.I have never seen mention of attaching to the kick panel.Usually any attachment to sheet metal a 6x6 plate with 100% weld is required,but is only noted for unibody cars at the floor.If the firewall was unaltered or all steel then the knee bar is not required.Maybe that is why it was passed. [IMG]http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq21/ajcasini/max_zpsdppwd9km.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Roll cage knee bar [Re: 6PKRTSE] #1544978 12/11/13 06:05 PM 12/11/13 06:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,877 Smyrna, South Carolina STEFF master
STEFF master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,877 Smyrna, South Carolina	Quote: I have seen 3 other cars done this way & they were all 25.5 certed before mine. I got the idea from Stef's old Challenger pictures & his also passed & had a 25.5 cert. We just copied it. Not sure if yours is just butted/welded to the inner reinforcing plate or not. But, mine passed thru both sides of the factory sheetmetal in the kick area, and there were reinforcing plates on the inside like you have shown and on the outside where the door would be. You could look thru the tube from the outside of the car with the door open. Like yours, there were no issues with the A-Pillar Bar being two pieces at cert time. Personally I think it's better than the one piece bar as the car is gusseted from side to side, in case of any side impact.

Re: Roll cage knee bar [Re: 6PKRTSE] #1544979 12/22/13 01:59 PM 12/22/13 01:59 PM
Joined: Aug 2008 Posts: 4,085 Mo. racerx OP master
racerx OP master Joined: Aug 2008 Posts: 4,085 Mo.	Quote: I posted in the cage post this picture. This is another picture if this helps. Does the cage gusset need to be 118"thick also?Or is there a limit?.........Thax

Re: Roll cage knee bar [Re: racerx] #1544980 12/27/13 02:33 AM 12/27/13 02:33 AM
Joined: Mar 2013 Posts: 197 Nor-Cal L loaderpro member
loaderpro member L Joined: Mar 2013 Posts: 197 Nor-Cal	For Sportsman full-bodied cars that require a roll cage (7.50 seconds and slower, including cars inspected to SFI 25.4 or 25.5): If General Regulations Section 20, page 28 the windshield/roof bars are interrupted by the dash bar, then either the entire dash bar must be minimum 1 1/2-inch x .058-inch CM (.118-inch MS) or the entire dash bar must be minimum 1 1/4-inch x .058-inch CM (.118-inch MS) and must be braced with gussets to both the upper and lower sections of each windshield/roof bar. The gussets may be either 1.75-inch x 1.75-inch x .110-inch (with one 1/2-inch-diameter and two 5/16-inch-diameter holes maximum) 4130 CM or MS plate (triangle shaped) or 3/4-inch x.049-inch CM (.118-inch MS) tubing at least 4 inches long. An interrupted windshield/roof bar is defined as one that has been completely severed into upper and lower sections/pieces and then the sections/pieces are welded to the dash bar. 4:12 7972760-pomona.jpg (114 downloads)

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