Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Mopar Performance Bronze Gear Wear #1536720
11/18/13 11:09 PM
11/18/13 11:09 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 749
NY
B
Beep Beep Offline OP
super stock
Beep Beep  Offline OP
super stock
B

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 749
NY
When should I replace my distributor gear? The street stroker build is almost 2 years old and has 1900 miles. I have included a picture of the gear compared to a new gear. There is some wear on the teeth and also on the bottom wear it rides on the distributor bushing. Should I be replacing this? How many miles should I expect to get on a new gear. Oil is 15W50 and stock volume high pressure oil pump.

7928941-nov1813060.jpg (154 downloads)
Last edited by Beep Beep; 11/18/13 11:27 PM.
Re: Mopar Performance Bronze Gear Wear [Re: Beep Beep] #1536721
11/18/13 11:12 PM
11/18/13 11:12 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 749
NY
B
Beep Beep Offline OP
super stock
Beep Beep  Offline OP
super stock
B

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 749
NY
Pic #2

7928948-nov1813059.jpg (169 downloads)
Last edited by Beep Beep; 11/18/13 11:25 PM.
Re: Mopar Performance Bronze Gear Wear [Re: Beep Beep] #1536722
11/19/13 12:33 AM
11/19/13 12:33 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,098
Ontario, Canada
S
Stanton Offline
Don't question me!
Stanton  Offline
Don't question me!
S

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,098
Ontario, Canada
Wear on the teeth is almost unavoidable. You can eliminate the wear on the base if you put a steel shim washer in there. The wear is due to "similar metals" - both being bronze!

Re: Mopar Performance Bronze Gear Wear [Re: Beep Beep] #1536723
11/19/13 10:32 AM
11/19/13 10:32 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
R
RapidRobert Offline
Circle Track
RapidRobert  Offline
Circle Track
R

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
I'm assuming your app is one that is supposed to run the bronze gear? does your oil have enough zinc? It does look like the margins at the OD are thinner on the used one. You might put a screwdriver in the slot & see if there's any rotational play just like backlash on a ring/pinion


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: Mopar Performance Bronze Gear Wear [Re: RapidRobert] #1536724
11/19/13 11:22 AM
11/19/13 11:22 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,575
The Netherlands
BigBlockMopar Offline
master
BigBlockMopar  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,575
The Netherlands
Do you really need the high pressure pump?
How about a step down in oil-thickness?

All to releave the gear of the high drag that'ss being put on it because of this.

Re: Mopar Performance Bronze Gear Wear [Re: BigBlockMopar] #1536725
11/19/13 06:32 PM
11/19/13 06:32 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,098
Ontario, Canada
S
Stanton Offline
Don't question me!
Stanton  Offline
Don't question me!
S

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,098
Ontario, Canada
Why do we care about zinc with a roller cam ???

Re: Mopar Performance Bronze Gear Wear [Re: Stanton] #1536726
11/19/13 07:53 PM
11/19/13 07:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,664
IN
A
ahy Offline
master
ahy  Offline
master
A

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,664
IN
Quote:

Why do we care about zinc with a roller cam ???




Roller followers don't care about zinc but the gears may benefit. 15W40 sounds like diesel oil so it probably has a good amount of zinc in any case.

I'm no expert but that gear looks pretty worn... I'd replace it.

Agree its a good idea to re-examine the HP pump and maybe oil. What are oil pressures running (hot idle and hot at speed)? The HP pump doesn't help at idle and may not be needed at speed. If you have more than 20 psi at idle I'd definitely try a thinner oil. Even lower idle pressure may be OK if it doesn't spend a lot of time there (race application).

Re: Mopar Performance Bronze Gear Wear [Re: ahy] #1536727
11/19/13 10:41 PM
11/19/13 10:41 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 749
NY
B
Beep Beep Offline OP
super stock
Beep Beep  Offline OP
super stock
B

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 749
NY
Thanks for all the replies. I have measured the old gear compared to the new gear. Everything measures out to be the same except for the height. The old gear is roughly .007 th shorter due to the wear on the bottom of the gear.

I installed the old gear and if I had to guess there is about 1/16 of gear movement when I use a screw driver to turn the gear back and forth like gear lash. With the new gear there is some very small amounts of movement, but not like the old gear. I tried measuring the gear thickness and I see it wore down about .020th on the teeth surface.

I am running Joe Gibbs high zinc oil 15W40 and not sure why the engine builder used a high pressure stock volume pump. My oil pressure at 50 mph cruise at 185f is 63 psi, and at idle it is around 31 psi at 180f.

This is a 499 stroker build which is driven on the street with a solid street roller cam.

Re: Mopar Performance Bronze Gear Wear [Re: Beep Beep] #1536728
11/20/13 12:11 AM
11/20/13 12:11 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,664
IN
A
ahy Offline
master
ahy  Offline
master
A

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,664
IN
To improve gear life, I'd start with thinner oil to reduce load on the gear. Based on your hot idle oil pressure 10W30 should be plenty.

Re: Mopar Performance Bronze Gear Wear [Re: Beep Beep] #1536729
11/20/13 12:43 AM
11/20/13 12:43 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
R
RapidRobert Offline
Circle Track
RapidRobert  Offline
Circle Track
R

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
Quote:

there is about 1/16 of gear movement. I am running Joe Gibbs high zinc oil 15W40 and not sure why the engine builder used a high pressure stock volume pump. My oil pressure at 50 mph cruise at 185f is 63 psi, and at idle it is around 31 psi at 180f.


With that much play close to the centerline of the intergear imagine how much that will be out at the rotor tip causing many degrees of timing variation. The most critical part of the oiling system is how well the rod bearings are being fed no matter what the psi (within reason). I wouldn't want to do alot of oiling changes without knowing what oiling mods (if any) the builder did cuz there must be enough pressure/volume thru whatever dia/routing of passages are in place. The critical part is feeding the rod bearings & if they look good I'd maybe change the viscosity if it's the wrong weight/type right now forgetting about the psi for the moment. If the viscosity is proper right now/& the rod bearings look OK then I'd start cutting coils off of the spring to lower the psi slightly. The bottom line is the condition of the rod bearings


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: Mopar Performance Bronze Gear Wear [Re: RapidRobert] #1536730
11/21/13 11:27 PM
11/21/13 11:27 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 749
NY
B
Beep Beep Offline OP
super stock
Beep Beep  Offline OP
super stock
B

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 749
NY
What about running a composite gear from Crane Cams or Hughes Racing over a bronze gear? Has anyone ran a composite gear on a used cam that was ran with a bronze gear. The cam shows a very small amount of gear pattern.

Re: Mopar Performance Bronze Gear Wear [Re: Beep Beep] #1536731
11/22/13 08:23 AM
11/22/13 08:23 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 596
Mass.
8
80fbody Offline
mopar
80fbody  Offline
mopar
8

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 596
Mass.
Looks interesting but clearly says not to install on a used cam.

Re: Mopar Performance Bronze Gear Wear [Re: 80fbody] #1536732
11/22/13 12:33 PM
11/22/13 12:33 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,098
Ontario, Canada
S
Stanton Offline
Don't question me!
Stanton  Offline
Don't question me!
S

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,098
Ontario, Canada
I'm wondering how it would know its a used cam ?? In the case of a roller cam, there should be ZERO wear on the cam since the bronze gear would be the sacrificial piece. I'd go for it.

Re: Mopar Performance Bronze Gear Wear [Re: Stanton] #1536733
11/22/13 12:42 PM
11/22/13 12:42 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,098
Ontario, Canada
S
Stanton Offline
Don't question me!
Stanton  Offline
Don't question me!
S

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,098
Ontario, Canada
Whoa! That gear from Hughes isn't "composite", its a coated steel gear. I'd take their advice about not using it on a used cam. But it would still be nice to know why not!

Re: Mopar Performance Bronze Gear Wear [Re: Stanton] #1536734
11/22/13 03:56 PM
11/22/13 03:56 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
mickm Offline
master
mickm  Offline
master

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
Quote:

Whoa! That gear from Hughes isn't "composite", its a coated steel gear. I'd take their advice about not using it on a used cam. But it would still be nice to know why not!




they told me that little bits of bronze from the gear are embedded on the surface of the teeth on the cam, and those will wear into the composite gear, destroy the coated surface and then it will wear just like a regular gear.

i was told if i wanted to use it on a used cam, that i would have to take the cam out and clean the teeth thoroughly.

Re: Mopar Performance Bronze Gear Wear [Re: Beep Beep] #1536735
11/23/13 12:04 PM
11/23/13 12:04 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,301
West Coast, USA
jbc426 Offline
master
jbc426  Offline
master

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,301
West Coast, USA
I'm going to have my next bronze gear cryogenically treated to see how that affects the wear.

Ditto on using thinner oil to reduce the load on the pump and gear.

The Milodon billet pump reportedly takes less power to turn at a given rpm, so I'm running one of those to reduce gear wear too. I have the stock cover on that pump. The shape of the gearator is significantly more pointed than the stock gearator, which is what supposedly allows it to pump the oil more efficiently.


1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
Re: Mopar Performance Bronze Gear Wear [Re: jbc426] #1536736
11/24/13 05:01 PM
11/24/13 05:01 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 749
NY
B
Beep Beep Offline OP
super stock
Beep Beep  Offline OP
super stock
B

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 749
NY
I am going to stick with the bronze gear for now. I am going to replace the oil with 10w30 or 10w40. Should I convert the high pressure pump to standard pressure pump also?

Re: Mopar Performance Bronze Gear Wear [Re: Beep Beep] #1536737
11/24/13 05:21 PM
11/24/13 05:21 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
R
RapidRobert Offline
Circle Track
RapidRobert  Offline
Circle Track
R

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
See what you have for psi after the oil change


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: Mopar Performance Bronze Gear Wear [Re: RapidRobert] #1536738
11/24/13 06:15 PM
11/24/13 06:15 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 749
NY
B
Beep Beep Offline OP
super stock
Beep Beep  Offline OP
super stock
B

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 749
NY
Okay thanks. What should the oil pressure be when hot?

Re: Mopar Performance Bronze Gear Wear [Re: Beep Beep] #1536739
11/24/13 07:48 PM
11/24/13 07:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,664
IN
A
ahy Offline
master
ahy  Offline
master
A

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,664
IN
On a fresh performance street engine I like 20 PSI at hot idle and around 60 hot at speed. 5 psi less on both is likely OK.

Page 1 of 2 1 2






Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1