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Re: Strange VIN Stamping - '70 'cuda 340 Trans Re-stamp?
[Re: 70mopes]
#1518269
10/16/13 02:52 AM
10/16/13 02:52 AM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 88
KS.
HairOtheDog
member
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member
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 88
KS.
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Oh, yeah,
no debate there, I've always liked the 70-71 E bodies, had a 70 gran coupe in the family for over 30yrs! (Still miss that car!)
But, I guess I am wrong, not the first or last time, BUT help me understand this so I can learn something new, I'm not trying to argue just understand..
First, I naturally would've thought-
if the orig motor went bye-bye, the orig. trans. did as well, pretty common, Ive seen it many, many, many, many times, so why isn't it possible this trans is from a different E body?
Second, While i agree that its odd for an abusive Previous owner to alter numbers, if the trans came from another, different well taken care of car, (i.e. wrecked) it now makes sense.
BUT when has a previous owner ever needed a reason to do something odd?
We all know about those "previous owner horror stories" heck! I'm in one of those now lol, previous owners did really senseless, ignorant things and unfortunately "THOSE" previous owners never needed a reason to do senseless things...
Third, Those #'s CLEARLY look restamped, NOT factory,
BUT, even IF they are, why in the world would they have to restamp the "OB2" over and over again???? I count at least 5-6 different, repeated, "O B 2" strikes each, why? That prefix did not change, so THAT doesn't make sense to me.
The ONLY possible reason I can see for the restrike of the "OB2"
is to "match" the other altered stamps.
Forth, I've never seen another with stampings like that (orig from the factory)
seen them plenty of times on cloned or faked cars though....
Not saying that yours is, obviously its not,
I just meant that whenever I've seen altered #'s, like that^
they were changed to hide, conceal, clone, cover-up or "create" a #'s matching car that isn't.
We've all seen them before.
Explain it to me please, is it just that there's no paint on the shift plate, correct font (easily done), lots of grime on it and a white "x" that makes it all legit?
Is that enough?
Thanks
Last edited by HairOtheDog; 10/16/13 04:04 AM.
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Re: Strange VIN Stamping - '70 'cuda 340 Trans Re-stamp?
[Re: HairOtheDog]
#1518270
10/16/13 04:06 AM
10/16/13 04:06 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,301
colorado
a12superbee
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,301
colorado
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Quote:
Oh, yeah,
no debate there, I've always liked the 70-71 E bodies, had a 70 gran coupe in the family for over 30yrs! (Still miss that car!)
But, I guess I am wrong, not the first or last time, BUT help me understand this so I can learn something new, I'm not trying to argue just understand..
First, I naturally would've thought-
if the orig motor went bye-bye, the orig. trans. did as well, pretty common, Ive seen it many, many, many, many times, so why isn't it possible this trans is from a different E body?
Second, While i agree that its odd for an abusive Previous owner to alter numbers, if the trans came from another, different well taken care of car, (i.e. wrecked) it now makes sense.
BUT when has a previous owner ever needed a reason to do something odd?
We all know about those "previous owner horror stories" heck! I'm in one of those now lol, previous owners did really senseless, ignorant things and unfortunately "THOSE" previous owners never needed a reason to do senseless things...
Third, Those #'s CLEARLY look restamped, NOT factory,
BUT, even IF they are, why in the world would they have to restamp the "OB2" over and over again???? I count at least 5-6 different, repeated, "O B 2" strikes each, why? That prefix did not change, so THAT doesn't make sense to me.
Forth, I've never seen another with stampings like that (orig from the factory)
seen them plenty of times on cloned or faked cars though....
Not saying that yours is, obviously its not,
I just meant that whenever I've seen altered #'s, like that^
they were changed to hide, conceal, clone, cover-up or "create" a #'s matching car that isn't.
We've all seen them before.
Explain it to me please, is it just that there's no paint on the shift plate, correct font (easily done), lots of grime on it and a white "x" that makes it all legit?
Is that enough?
Thanks
Those things yes.
The mill marks on the pad don't appear to have been grinded on.
People restamping numbers generally don't leave the old number visible, it is kind of a tell tale.
How about a conscientious dealer mechanic?
I'd agree the 'restamping for fun and profit' doesn't seem to be in play here.
I can't afford this.
mark
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Re: Strange VIN Stamping - '70 'cuda 340 Trans Re-stamp?
[Re: a12superbee]
#1518273
10/16/13 09:57 AM
10/16/13 09:57 AM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,010
Alberta, Canada
krisiesmopes
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,010
Alberta, Canada
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Quote:
How about a conscientious dealer mechanic?
hmmmmn. I worked at a dealership and there were stamps in the tool room.
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Re: Strange VIN Stamping - '70 'cuda 340 Trans Re-stamp?
[Re: Dave Watt]
#1518274
10/16/13 10:53 AM
10/16/13 10:53 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,499
N.E. OHIO, USA
A12
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,499
N.E. OHIO, USA
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Quote:
Looks like a factory stamp to me.
My guess is that the person who was stamping the engine and trans forgot to change the VIN# prior to striking it, realized the mistake, corrected the VIN#, and then heavily struck it to cover up the mistake. 
 Hmmmmmmmmmmm "What if" there is another trans with the numbers restamped on this trans with them under the numbers that you can't read  A simple assembly line oops that someone caught. Two 4-speed transmissions attached to the wrong engine and caught by quality control. Instead of taking everything apart it's just so much easier to re-stamp both and keep the line moving.
Remember production was about a 1,000 cars a day back then and do you really think that they cared if 40-years later someone would say "oh for sure that's a non-factory restamp there because someone made a 4-speed out of an automatic to increase the value" 
What would you do if you were the production manager and someone pointed out the assembly error with everything already bolted together?
I agree with the fact that the original numbers are still there and the re-stamped numbers are pretty darn straight to not have been done with a multi-stamp fixture like used on some assembly lines.
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Re: Strange VIN Stamping - '70 'cuda 340 Trans Re-stamp?
[Re: 70mopes]
#1518275
10/16/13 11:58 AM
10/16/13 11:58 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,470
renton, Washington
ph23vo
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,470
renton, Washington
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Quote:
I am restoring a '70 cuda 340 4 speed with a SPD of 2/26. I had always thought the trans was a matching assy but now I am not so sure. Take a look at this VIN Stamping. I had thought the fonts and size looked normal and I have seen some pretty crappy VIN stampings on both blocks and tranny's but until I looked closer this trans appears to have a different story.
For all practical purposes, this trans looked to be the original assy for this car. It has the correct 696 blue stencil on the housing. The assy date of the Trans is Jan 13, 1970 which is kind of early for MY SPD. My VIN is OB262398 but the VIN underneath looks to be OB253550. Is it possible that it is a factory screwup? Like I said ... all indications are that the trans is original to the car.
The stamp looks old and pretty close to factory font... in the '3' and '2'.
I know what most will think but am wondering if somehow the trans was mis ID'd at the factory and then overstamped with my cars VIN. Perhaps the other VIN had already been used? and was duplicated in error on this trans. Anyone ever heard of anything like that happening?
i have a 70 HP 440 block like that... has another vin stamped under it..not sure if it was a bad engine at the factory or a dealer restamp..they are correct FACTORY STAMPING FONT anyway.. had the engine 25 yrs..
Thoughts?
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Re: Strange VIN Stamping - '70 'cuda 340 Trans Re-stamp?
[Re: Dave Watt]
#1518276
10/16/13 12:45 PM
10/16/13 12:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,389
Abilene, Texas
fastmark
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,389
Abilene, Texas
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Quote:
Looks like a factory stamp to me.
My guess is that the person who was stamping the engine and trans forgot to change the VIN# prior to striking it, realized the mistake, corrected the VIN#, and then heavily struck it to cover up the mistake.
Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner! You guys are so quick to jump to a rebody/restamp theory. Look, it is a lonely 340 car. The motor is long gone. Someone on the assembly line made a mistake. There could be any number of reasons. They caught it corrected it and moved on. They did not think about 40 years from now someone on this board placing any value on a set of numbers much less questioning the validity of the car. Those stamps are factory, pure and simple. If someone was going to do a restamp, then the old number would have been milled off. Do you really think a worker is going to stop the assembly line and tell his boss he screwed up a stamp job? I remember one of the old timers on the board who told of a new hire on the Chrysler line that was stamping the uni bodies. He was really fast. When they got to watching him, he was not changing the numbers for each car! No telling how many uni-bodies he stamped with the same number!
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Re: Strange VIN Stamping - '70 'cuda 340 Trans Re-stamp?
[Re: hemicar1971]
#1518278
10/16/13 07:52 PM
10/16/13 07:52 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 709
St Louis, MO 63026
convx4
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 709
St Louis, MO 63026
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This info was taken from the winged warriors web site http://www.wwnboa.org/slaprer.htmVIN tags didn't appear until the car was in the Trim department. They were situated in order in wooden trays and brought down from the Broadcast Area which was then located overhead. In later years, the Broadcast Area was moved down to the floor. The fender tags appeared in the body shop. They were stamped by a machine that ran across the blank tag like a typewriter, done very fast. The fender tags were located on the inner fender because that is the one part that every car had and were all the same basic construction to use as a reference point. Gary also told us how those VIN stampings were made. There were two motor lines at the plant. When a car went through the motor line, as soon as the transmission was installed, it received VIN stampings. There were five sets of fixtures, there were numbers that went into each fixture and then it was clamped onto the engine. A pneumatic burp gun was then used to stamp the VIN into the metal. The engine was painted before the numbers were stamped, so the numbers were left in bare metal. The confidential numbers that were stamped on various other parts of the car were stamped with a huge machine...so big you could hardly pull it down to make the stamping. The confidential numbers were painted over in the bodyshop. Gary remembers one humorous episode where a new hire was supposed to be putting the confidential numbers on the cars as they came by his station. A foreman saw him sitting there leisurely reading a magazine and went over to ask why he wasn't up working. The new hire answered that this was the "easiest job in the world" and didn't take much time so he was relaxing in-between cars. Wondering how he could be stamping each of those cars with different numbers and have that much free time, the foreman stood back and watched the new hire as the next car came down the line. He simply stood up and pulled the machine down and stamped the numbers on the car body-without ever changing the numbers! He had been stamping the same numbers on every car! Broadcast sheet paper came to the plant pre-printed and folded in boxes. IBM teletype machines printed the various codes on broadcast sheets. The Broadcast Office at the front of the plant sent information about each car coordinated to small offices where there were machines located. Gary reports that there were 30 track (broadcast) machines in the plant. There were five small printing machines in Paint and Bodyshop alone. Part of his job was to empty the trash barrels of track sheets (which, incidentally are now recycled). Imagine how many of those much-sought-after broadcast sheets Gary sent to the landfill! The long, skinny aluminum tag that you sometimes see affixed to the forward screw on the fender ID tag is an inspector's tag. It will have a punched hole through it to signify that an inspector has looked at that car. The bodyshop had the aluminum strips for the inspectors to punch. Sometimes you will also find a hole punched through the fender tag itself. This is also an inspector's punch. Here's a good example of how things could really get screwed up in the factory. One day, an inspector went to the area where the radiator core supports were being built and told them he'd "bought off" four hours worth of cars. He stamped (punched) inspectors tags for all of them, which amounted to about 250 cars, and then went home to lunch. As luck would have it, the cars got out of sequence that day in the assembly plant and the bodies were wrong. His job was to insure that the bodies were drilled correctly for the chrome. All of these 250 cars, which were on dollys in the metal shop, had to be coordinated with the correct track sheets. This caused the assembly line to be shut down for an hour while they got the cars back in sequence. The inspector got fired for about a week and then was transferred to another department.
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Re: Strange VIN Stamping - '70 'cuda 340 Trans Re-stamp?
[Re: Rhinodart]
#1518280
10/17/13 11:10 AM
10/17/13 11:10 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,106
Chicago Blackhawks
hemicar1971
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,106
Chicago Blackhawks
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There are a lot of cool stories that could be told. Some vehicles motors blew up in roll test before they ever left the plant were I work and I don't think anyone put a VIN number on the new motor after or during the motor change. Test drives use to go on a lot. Smokie burn outs at lunch with a bunch of other workers. Having drag races on the ring road around the plant and running out of gas and just leaving the vehicle right there and walking back to your work area and not telling anyone about the vehicle. It was more important to just keep the line moving than to care if some vehicle got all its VINs. If it was workers vehicle being built it got plenty of extra care and undercoating and some extra goodies, such as better suspension parts and up graded performance parts. Now it is very hard to upgrade do to Computerization and unit builds from other plants that come in completely built and ready to be put into the vehicle.
1971 HEMI E BODY REGISTRY
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Re: Strange VIN Stamping - '70 'cuda 340 Trans Re-stamp?
[Re: 70ChallengerR/T]
#2315829
06/04/17 04:57 AM
06/04/17 04:57 AM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 765
Vancouver, WA
Cuda Cody
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 765
Vancouver, WA
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There are all types of factory errors and mis-stamps, but there are many fakes out there too. A lot of things to consider. 6bbgt is a fantastic resource and he can help you... as can many other very smart and experienced members here too. This article might be of some help, but it's not going to take the place of a true expert taking a look at the numbers for you. Post a photo if you can. http://www.e-bodies.org/buying-your-first-e-body/vin-numbers/I am looking to purchase a numbers matching car that has a double stamp issue on the engine like the one is this discussion and I am dubious to pay $$$$.
Trying understand if my concerns are valid or not. Would anyone here paid top dollar with this issue?
1970 Challenger T/A 4-Speed
1970 Challenger T/A 4-Speed
1970 Challenger T/A Auto
1970 Challenger R/T Auto
1970 Challenger Auto
1970 Challenger RT 440+6 4-Speed
1970 Challenger RT 440+6 4-Speed
1970 Hemi Challenger 4-Speed
1970 Hemi Cuda 4-Speed
1971 Cuda Auto
1971 Cuda 4-Speed
LOOKING to BUY 1970 & 1971 E Body J, V and R Code project cars
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There are plenty of anecdotes from those days about what took place like what is printed above... 
