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440 breaking up at 5500rpm #1511640
10/02/13 09:05 PM
10/02/13 09:05 PM
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Jarrettsville, MD
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tywebb2 Offline OP
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I recently swapped cams in my 440 from the MP 509 hyd to the Lunati 60303 (.494/.513, 268/276, 226/234 @.050"). I finally got to the point last weekend where I opened the car up for a WOT pull while tuning the carb and noticed that when I get up to 5500-5700rpm the car starts breaking up like it has hit the rev limiter.

I tried a different carb this past weekend and there was no difference. I tried a different chip in my MSD box thinking the one in there may have went bad but still no difference. The AFR meter is reading around 13.0 at the leanest point so it isn't running out of gas. As soon as I shift from 1st to 2nd or 2nd to 3rd the car stops breaking up and starts pulling hard again which to me means it has enough fuel as well. I also never had any fuel supply issues with the 509 cam.

Could this be as simple as a bad plug, plug wire, or distributor cap? Other than that I am thinking valve springs but I have the ootb eddy springs on their heads that are rated for up to .600 lift. I never had an issue with them when using the 509 cam?


'72 440 Cuda
11.673 @ 115.91 w/1.663 60'
Re: 440 breaking up at 5500rpm [Re: tywebb2] #1511641
10/02/13 09:08 PM
10/02/13 09:08 PM
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Hot 340 Offline
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Check lash/preload, if running non adjustable rockers on a hydraulic cam, the base circle mite be different on new cam. Also, check distributor wobble as well. Damhik.

Last edited by HOT 340; 10/02/13 09:18 PM.
Re: 440 breaking up at 5500rpm [Re: Hot 340] #1511642
10/02/13 09:40 PM
10/02/13 09:40 PM
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Jarrettsville, MD
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tywebb2 Offline OP
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I am using comp pro mag adjustable rockers. I had 3/4 turn preload on them and tried taking a quarter turn out but it didn't make a difference.

I have an MSD distributor. When you mention wobble do you mean the cap being loose or he rotor actually wobbling? The cap bolts down and is very secure.

Last edited by tywebb2; 10/02/13 09:53 PM.

'72 440 Cuda
11.673 @ 115.91 w/1.663 60'
Re: 440 breaking up at 5500rpm [Re: tywebb2] #1511643
10/02/13 10:01 PM
10/02/13 10:01 PM
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Hot 340 Offline
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Quote:

I am using comp pro mag adjustable rockers. I had 3/4 turn preload on them and tried taking a quarter turn out but it didn't make a difference.

I have an MSD distributor. When you mention wobble do you mean the cap being loose or he rotor actually wobbling? The cap bolts down and is very secure.


its probably neither of those then...I had a wore out factory distributor that did that. Might be your msd box going bad?

Re: 440 breaking up at 5500rpm [Re: Hot 340] #1511644
10/02/13 10:37 PM
10/02/13 10:37 PM
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Jarrettsville, MD
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tywebb2 Offline OP
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Kind of odd how the problem showed up right after the cam swap?


'72 440 Cuda
11.673 @ 115.91 w/1.663 60'
Re: 440 breaking up at 5500rpm [Re: tywebb2] #1511645
10/02/13 11:29 PM
10/02/13 11:29 PM
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Gainesville,FL
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goldmember Offline
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Valve train going whacko is my . Need the correct valve springs and installation. JWAG 135lbs seat and 325lbs open should work,less seat lbs would NOT likely be happy,check yours and see what you have.

Re: 440 breaking up at 5500rpm [Re: goldmember] #1511646
10/03/13 12:16 AM
10/03/13 12:16 AM
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Jarrettsville, MD
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tywebb2 Offline OP
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That is kind of what i was afraid of. What do you think the open and seat pressures are for the eddy valve springs are? They list on their website that they are rated for up to 600 lift but nothing about the open and seat pressures?


'72 440 Cuda
11.673 @ 115.91 w/1.663 60'
Re: 440 breaking up at 5500rpm [Re: tywebb2] #1511647
10/03/13 01:13 AM
10/03/13 01:13 AM
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Norwich CT USA
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Low voltage to ignition leading to poor spark? How does the ground wire to the block look?

Re: 440 breaking up at 5500rpm [Re: tywebb2] #1511648
10/03/13 01:35 AM
10/03/13 01:35 AM
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Quote:

That is kind of what i was afraid of. What do you think the open and seat pressures are for the eddy valve springs are? They list on their website that they are rated for up to 600 lift but nothing about the open and seat pressures? [/quote) I'd pull at least 1 and check it. Are the springs new?

Re: 440 breaking up at 5500rpm [Re: goldmember] #1511649
10/03/13 09:23 AM
10/03/13 09:23 AM
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Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
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Valve springs I'd guess.


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Re: 440 breaking up at 5500rpm [Re: Mr.Yuck] #1511650
10/03/13 10:45 AM
10/03/13 10:45 AM
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Balt. Md
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383man Offline
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I remember some years back we ran my buddies 383 Cuda which was a 68 and it had Comp valve springs that were old. It started breaking up around 6200 just as it went thru the traps. But it still ran 11.40's @ 118. It would break up just as you went past the stripe. It ended up being weak valve springs. That said we ran the Eddy RPM heads on my sons Dart with their stock single spring for 3 years like that and it ran fine running a best of 11.55. How old are the springs on your Eddy heads. Ron

Re: 440 breaking up at 5500rpm [Re: 383man] #1511651
10/03/13 11:42 AM
10/03/13 11:42 AM
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dogdays Offline
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Your problem is classic, valve springs incorrect for the cam. The Voodoo cam line, as well as the Comp XEHL line, and all of the Hughes cams, use very high lifter acceleration rates that require matched springs for success. The cam manufacturer is the one to ask about springs.

R.

Last edited by dogdays; 10/03/13 11:42 AM.
Re: 440 breaking up at 5500rpm [Re: dogdays] #1511652
10/03/13 03:33 PM
10/03/13 03:33 PM
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Queens, New York
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Harley Offline
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I had a similar problem to what you are describing. I changed the cap and rotor and it went away. The old cap and rotor looked fine, but the new one made all the difference.

Re: 440 breaking up at 5500rpm [Re: Harley] #1511653
10/03/13 10:04 PM
10/03/13 10:04 PM
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Jarrettsville, MD
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tywebb2 Offline OP
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I talked to Lunati tech this evening and they seemed to think it could be too much preload...lifters pumping up at high rpm and not allowing the valves to close. They suggested taking a quarter turn out and trying them at only 1/4 turn preload. If that doesnt work then look at the springs. Said I should have 120 seat and 320 open. Safe range would be 100-120 seat and 300-325 open.

I did pull my distributor cap and cleaned that up and bought a new set of plugs to throw in it too (autolite 3924).


'72 440 Cuda
11.673 @ 115.91 w/1.663 60'
Re: 440 breaking up at 5500rpm [Re: tywebb2] #1511654
10/03/13 10:31 PM
10/03/13 10:31 PM
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Canton, Ohio
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Sport440 Offline
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Thats a good test with the lifter preload.

I dont know how worn your Eddie springs are, but New, Dwayne Porter measured a set compared to some Hughes springs I was using and got

1.900-127#
1.860-140#
1.400-297#
1.300-330#

Re: 440 breaking up at 5500rpm [Re: Sport440] #1511655
10/03/13 10:53 PM
10/03/13 10:53 PM
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Jarrettsville, MD
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tywebb2 Offline OP
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My heads/springs are probably about 8 years old with very low mileage on them.

I just found eddy specs on the springs.

115# seat
280# open at .500"

Of course I need to check one to verify but looking at the factory spec would that mean I don't have enough pressure on the open?


'72 440 Cuda
11.673 @ 115.91 w/1.663 60'
Re: 440 breaking up at 5500rpm [Re: tywebb2] #1511656
10/03/13 11:28 PM
10/03/13 11:28 PM
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Sport440 Offline
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The specs I posted above are for New Eddie springs, those numbers would be fine with your new cam.

My Eddie Spec sheet that came with my heads show a 120# seat at 1.88

With your 8 year old heads, your springs may be on the worn side. A spring test is in order for sure, but they may still be in range with what Lunati stated.

Re: 440 breaking up at 5500rpm [Re: Sport440] #1511657
10/04/13 12:11 AM
10/04/13 12:11 AM
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tywebb2 Offline OP
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I wonder if I should pull the intake and all lifters so I can bleed them down and start from scratch setting lifter preload. I went back in and reset it after the initial break in (which I now know was a mistake). Setting the preload with the intake on makes it a little more tricky and I know some of the lifters were pumped up which is bad too...right?


'72 440 Cuda
11.673 @ 115.91 w/1.663 60'
Re: 440 breaking up at 5500rpm [Re: tywebb2] #1511658
10/04/13 03:59 AM
10/04/13 03:59 AM
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Bend,OR USA
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Quote:

I wonder if I should pull the intake and all lifters so I can bleed them down and start from scratch setting lifter preload. I went back in and reset it after the initial break in (which I now know was a mistake). Setting the preload with the intake on makes it a little more tricky and I know some of the lifters were pumped up which is bad too...right?


No You want the lifters full of oil and pump up just like the motor will be ran at I prime all my hydraulic cam motors while turning the motor over by the starter or by hand on the engine stand with the spark plugs out before setting the lifter preload I also recheck and reset as needed after breaking in the cam and lifters, I like and use 1/5 to 1/4 turn of preload when hot


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: 440 breaking up at 5500rpm [Re: tywebb2] #1511659
10/04/13 09:44 AM
10/04/13 09:44 AM
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Ontario, Canada
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Maybe you have much more pre load on some then you think?

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