Re: 77 440 motor question
[Re: 70Xman]
#1505037
09/20/13 08:35 PM
09/20/13 08:35 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 15,487 Florida
scratchnfotraction
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 15,487
Florida
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look at the casting #s on each sidewall of the block. this will tell you what yr and cubic inch the block is. it could be anything thrown together from the factory or since 77-78 with rebuilds. sound like a Motor home engine like I have, #s on the pad up top are about gone due to rust/pitting. but the 3s cast into each side of the block confirm it is indeed a 77 external balance cast crank 440. it had a front sump oil pan with windage tray,truck manifolds,non a/c pullys/brackets,spredbore intake with a thermobog carb. what kind of oil pan on it? where is the oil stick/tube located on it? does it have a external balance cone/bullet shaped crank damper? it could have the thin damper for steel crank with 6 pac rods if from a MH chassis. does it have a trans with it? does it have the big balance weight on the face of TC? even though a 77-78 smogger 440 is a lopo unit it wakes right up with a q-jet/edelbrock RPM intake, hughes whiplash cam,TF-2 shift kit,3.91sg in my 88-440 truck.
Last edited by scratchnfotraction; 09/20/13 08:37 PM.
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Re: 77 440 motor question
[Re: 70Xman]
#1505039
09/21/13 10:22 PM
09/21/13 10:22 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 15,487 Florida
scratchnfotraction
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 15,487
Florida
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Quote:
The crank dampener is the tapered "bullet" type, and the pulley is 4 groove. Never saw that many before. I'm sure it has a cast crank because of all the info I have found concerning the E on the milled pad by the intake, after the 440.
There seems to be conflicting info every time I look at data on the 440 Source website pictures. According to them, the bellhousing mounting area was changed slightly for all 75 and later engines and has a slight stepped area where the oil sending unit installs. Mine does not look like that, but is a continuously round shape as the pre 75's had. But then the crank dampener info and pictures say that the bullet type dampener was only on 76 and later engines.
This engine does not appear to have ever been apart and has factory stickers still on the valve covers.
I don't know what to think. I guess I need to provide pictures when I can and let you guys hash it out as to what the heck I have.
Thanks for your input so far.
I will wager it is the same as mine.
the bullet damper is a external balance crank shaft, it will need a weighted TC from a 383/400/cast crank 440. ( I used a stock 400 weighted TC on mine )
it most likly has the LY rods and 452 heads that use the small "peanut" plug with a tapped seat/no washer.
these heads also have extra cooling ports/steam holes around the plug seat area from what I have read and nee to becarfull when port/polishing them.
the rear of the block where the big bell shaped oil sender is sounds about right with the step area but has a nice round mating surface for the trans bell.
did you check for the yr and cubic inch on the block sidewall?
is it a front sump? rear sump? center sump? oil pan?
di you see a double oil pan gasket with the windage tray inbetween gaskets?
mine had a front sump with windage tray, i turned the windage tray around and used it with a rear sump truck pan.
does it have any motor mount brakets bolted to the block? that could be a clue.. mine had MH/60-71 swept line truck mounts and came out of a 1 1/4 ton MH chassis.
sounds like one of the last lopo smogger dinosaurs from a HD truck chassis to me.
pics are good here is a shot of mine showing the oil sender area. this what you talking about?? do the pullys look like the 2nd pic? IIRC my crank pully is 4 grooves but i only use the 2 rear grooves running the wp/alt with PS it is 1 belt to each on the 2 rear grooves again.
can you confirm.. oil pan/plugs/windage tray/motor mounts/block cast date ?
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Re: 77 440 motor question
[Re: scratchnfotraction]
#1505041
09/22/13 08:16 PM
09/22/13 08:16 PM
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 38 Pennsylvania
70Xman
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 38
Pennsylvania
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OK, so a little more info I just discovered. The water pump is as pictured in the 440 Source web page under water pumps. It is described as being used on motorhomes 440's from 73-79. As I mentioned in my first post, the numbers on the side of the block (both sides) are 4006630-440-7. On the passengers side there is also 9*18*74, which I don't know if that is the casting date, or not. The harmonic dampener I have was used on cast crank 440's from 1976 until the end of production, but the bell housing design is an early style vs. the 75 and later design. The oil pan has the sump in the front. The motor mounts have no numbers that I can see but are quite thick and painted red. The bell housing area looks exactly like yours in that there are two spots that are machined up near the valley pan hold down plate. Your water pump is the same as mine also. There are no plugs in the heads so I'm not sure about the spark plugs. No tranny either, but there is a weight on the torque converter on the rounded side vs. the gear side. Once I start tearing it down I'll be able to get more numbers from the heads and such. Thanks for the help on this.
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Re: 77 440 motor question
[Re: 70Xman]
#1505042
09/22/13 08:57 PM
09/22/13 08:57 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,071 U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,071
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
I have a 440 engine that has some conflicting information on it, at least as far as I can figure.
The block has cast in part number 4006630-440-7, but then just above that is another set of cast in numbers 9 * 18 * 74
If this is a 77 motor, why the date of sept 18, 74?
The milled pad up by the intake has 7 T440 E 2 25 2
Which seems to agree with the 77 motor info.
Also, the milled pad down at the oil pan on the passengers side of the block, where the last digits of the vin number belong, is completely blank, other than the factory milling machine marks. Could this have been a replacement block, or did they just forget to stamp in the numbers and letters?
I find it hard to believe someone would go through the trouble to try to fake a 77 engine.
I have pics on my phone if I can figure out how to post them. The intake is a 4 barrel with huge secondary holes. I have no idea what this came out of.
What I BOLDED above is the IMPORTANT information , the block was CAST in sept of 1974 but for whatever reason it was not ASSEMBLED till Feb 25 of 1977
The 7 is the model year of the vehicle the engine was installed in , T means it was assembled at the Trenton plant , 440 is the cubic inches and the E means it has a cast crank. The 2 25 2 is Feb. 25 and assembled on the 2nd shift.
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Re: 77 440 motor question
[Re: 70Xman]
#1505047
09/23/13 09:02 PM
09/23/13 09:02 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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The plot thickens. They went from a (3) to a (4) in the very first number when they intro'd the so called thin wall castings. iirc the DC manual said '75 (model year I'm assuming) for that changeover. Your number starts with a (4). I had a '75 cordoba with the original eng & it was a (4) "thin wall" engine so it may have been cast in 74
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: 77 440 motor question
[Re: 70Xman]
#1505048
09/24/13 12:26 AM
09/24/13 12:26 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,071 U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,071
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
JohnRR, the only problem is that the 4006630-440 block numbers were not created until late 1975. 1973, 1974 and early 1975 blocks would have been 3698830-440.
Not that it really matters but there seems to be some errors made somewhere, which is probably not all that uncommon back in those days.
Then I'm going to ask the real stupid question ... what do you want to know ??
Once you hit the smog era everything is the same ... they are all low compression pigs with cast cranks .
Unless it's the original engine to something you have it's a core that you use the block from and throw the rest of it in the scrap pile .
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Re: 77 440 motor question
[Re: JohnRR]
#1505049
09/24/13 01:05 AM
09/24/13 01:05 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591 Canton, Ohio
Sport440
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
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Quote:
Quote:
JohnRR, the only problem is that the 4006630-440 block numbers were not created until late 1975. 1973, 1974 and early 1975 blocks would have been 3698830-440.
Not that it really matters but there seems to be some errors made somewhere, which is probably not all that uncommon back in those days.
Then I'm going to ask the real stupid question ... what do you want to know ??
Once you hit the smog era everything is the same ... they are all low compression pigs with cast cranks .
Unless it's the original engine to something you have it's a core that you use the block from and throw the rest of it in the scrap pile .
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