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400 vs 440 stroker.
#1482570
08/10/13 09:47 PM
08/10/13 09:47 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,696
jersey
Spaceman Spiff
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,696
jersey
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If you wanted to build a 500ish in stroker to make 600hp, and you had 84cc edelbrock heads, would you do a 400 or 440 based build, and why?
Going into a '58 Plymouth with a/c and a 3.73 geared rear.
Hydraulic flat tappet, or hydraulic roller and why?
526 cubes of angry wedge, pushbutton shifted, 9 passenger killer!
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Re: 400 vs 440 stroker.
[Re: Spaceman Spiff]
#1482571
08/10/13 10:07 PM
08/10/13 10:07 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,386
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,386
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
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Quote:
If you wanted to build a 500ish in stroker to make 600hp, and you had 84cc edelbrock heads, would you do a 400 or 440 based build, and why?
Going into a '58 Plymouth with a/c and a 3.73 geared rear.
Hydraulic flat tappet, or hydraulic roller and why?
600hp on a 500 inch stroker is like detuning it...
We currently run a 512 RB with out of the box EZ heads, and is making 700hp on pump gas. We run a solid mechanical cam, 10.7:1 pistons, and a 950 Proform carb jetted up at least 2 all the way around. The block was treated to a girdle and a big oil pan, but not much else...Our cam is about .670" but you can detune it with a mild street cam. I normally don't care for Eddy heads, and about where they flow fully ported are about where these start out of the box.
Watch piston choice with the bigger 84cc heads.
Our next build is going to basically a copy of this engine with a 400 block and the same heads with a mild port job...Why, because the 400 will fit in the Duster better, has smaller main journels, and should be slightly lighter. We are going to put a Dominator on the next one as well.
Last edited by Dragula; 08/10/13 10:08 PM.
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Re: 400 vs 440 stroker.
[Re: Spaceman Spiff]
#1482574
08/10/13 10:51 PM
08/10/13 10:51 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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A 400 block is much stronger... that would be the only way I'd go unless you wanted way more CI 
Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 08/10/13 10:55 PM.
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Re: 400 vs 440 stroker.
[Re: ahy]
#1482575
08/10/13 10:51 PM
08/10/13 10:51 PM
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 47
CO
Nitrojunkee
member
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member
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 47
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Quote:
Adapting the RB for roller is expensive and a bit tricky I think.
Why?
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Re: 400 vs 440 stroker.
[Re: Dragula]
#1482578
08/10/13 11:32 PM
08/10/13 11:32 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,918
Akron, Ohio
ProSport
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,918
Akron, Ohio
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Quote:
We currently run a 512 RB with out of the box EZ heads, and is making 700hp on pump gas. We run a solid mechanical cam, 10.7:1 pistons, and a 950 Proform carb jetted up at least 2 all the way around. The block was treated to a girdle and a big oil pan, but not much else...Our cam is about .670" but you can detune it with a mild street cam. I normally don't care for Eddy heads, and about where they flow fully ported are about where these start out of the box.
Dragula, what car is this motor in? What ET is it running and at what weight?
1970 Challenger, all aluminum 528 Hemi, HDK suspension, Tremec 5 speed manual
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Re: 400 vs 440 stroker.
[Re: ProSport]
#1482579
08/10/13 11:42 PM
08/10/13 11:42 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,386
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,386
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
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Quote:
Quote:
We currently run a 512 RB with out of the box EZ heads, and is making 700hp on pump gas. We run a solid mechanical cam, 10.7:1 pistons, and a 950 Proform carb jetted up at least 2 all the way around. The block was treated to a girdle and a big oil pan, but not much else...Our cam is about .670" but you can detune it with a mild street cam. I normally don't care for Eddy heads, and about where they flow fully ported are about where these start out of the box.
Dragula, what car is this motor in? What ET is it running and at what weight?
We run that in the Duster...3150lbs with me in it ran 10.07 leaving at only 2100rpm shifting at only 6400...We are not running it as hard as we could.
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Re: 400 vs 440 stroker.
[Re: ProSport]
#1482581
08/11/13 12:07 AM
08/11/13 12:07 AM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,386
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,386
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
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Quote:
Ok, I am just wondering why you don't care for Edelbrocks, I used ported Eddy's on my pump gas 451 with the 590 cam and went 9.80's at 3050#'s. I love these heads and I'm dropping my 500" low deck into my Duster tomorrow with MW cnc ported Eddy's. 
I just think that where the E-heads finish up is where the Indy heads tend to start...Ours are out of the box literally. Last time we tried a 3k launch, it killed all the tabs on the rear suspension. Bent everything. We have a much better rear set-up now, and might wick it up a bit this weekend we will see.
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Re: 400 vs 440 stroker.
[Re: Thumperdart]
#1482583
08/11/13 04:08 PM
08/11/13 04:08 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,562
Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick
Still wishing...
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Still wishing...
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,562
Downtown Roebuck Ont
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You haven't stated purpose but if A/C is involved I'm assuming station wagon street stealth bomber  . My  440 based if for no other reason than I buy into the long rod theory as far as longevity is concerned ie for me a build like this is a failure if it won't go 200,000 miles minimum without pulling the heads. My 440 based 493 is 0 deck 8.97:1 and did 500hp 600ft/lbs on 87 regular with OOTB RPM's and a MP509. Depending on what you are willing to live with as far as street manners are concerned, more cam and compression would get mine pretty close I think and a trip to the head porter would put it over the top but at the expense of longevity IMHO. I'd buy enough cylinder head to hit your number with and build as big a short block as I needed to make it happen by 5500 and it should run strong forever. Kevin
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Re: 400 vs 440 stroker.
[Re: Thumperdart]
#1482584
08/11/13 08:05 PM
08/11/13 08:05 PM
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 47
CO
Nitrojunkee
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member
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 47
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Adapting the RB for roller is expensive and a bit tricky I think.
Why?
That`s what I was thinking..........my Isky solid roller has been flawless for around 8 years and the lifters just drop in..........no bushed bores OR lightning/oil bands(solid body).
Yep. I'm going with a solid roller custom blower grind from Bullet, and a set of Morel lifters. Not bushing the lifter bores, and I'm not worried about it. Of course, I won't be spinning this motor past 6300-6500 either... If that. I'm also going to spend a little coin on rockers, and lighter valve train parts.
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Re: 400 vs 440 stroker.
[Re: Twostick]
#1482585
08/11/13 08:13 PM
08/11/13 08:13 PM
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 47
CO
Nitrojunkee
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 47
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Quote:
You haven't stated purpose but if A/C is involved I'm assuming station wagon street stealth bomber .
My 440 based if for no other reason than I buy into the long rod theory as far as longevity is concerned ie for me a build like this is a failure if it won't go 200,000 miles minimum without pulling the heads.
My 440 based 493 is 0 deck 8.97:1 and did 500hp 600ft/lbs on 87 regular with OOTB RPM's and a MP509. Depending on what you are willing to live with as far as street manners are concerned, more cam and compression would get mine pretty close I think and a trip to the head porter would put it over the top but at the expense of longevity IMHO.
I'd buy enough cylinder head to hit your number with and build as big a short block as I needed to make it happen by 5500 and it should run strong forever.
Kevin
Couldn't agree more with this! More cubic inch with some good flowing heads, won't have to work as hard. Not that there is anything wrong with the low deck big inch builds, I've seen some killer ones! My 496" is a 440 base, 4.150" stroke, 2.200" journal, with 6.800" rod length. Still plenty of compression height on Diamond 8.98:1 dish blower pistons at zero deck. Didn't skimp on machine work either. I'm banking on it lasting me 8-10 years before it needs freshening up... We shall see.
I'd go 440, but I could be biased 
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Re: 400 vs 440 stroker.
[Re: Spaceman Spiff]
#1482587
08/12/13 01:29 AM
08/12/13 01:29 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,157
Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,157
Bend,OR USA
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Quote:
If you wanted to build a 500ish in stroker to make 600hp, and you had 84cc edelbrock heads, would you do a 400 or 440 based build, and why?
Going into a '58 Plymouth with a/c and a 3.73 geared rear.
Hydraulic flat tappet, or hydraulic roller and why?
400 block with a 4.300 sroker crank with either 6.700 or 6.600 long BB Chevy h beam rods, pistons made to match the compression ratio you want. Hydraulic roller for the longivity Shift that rascal around 6000 RPM and hope you can hook it   
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: 400 vs 440 stroker.
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#1482588
08/12/13 09:03 AM
08/12/13 09:03 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,996
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,996
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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I am in favor of a low deck for high rpm big head horsepower. But your deal is different, so either will work well. The RB block will allow you to go to 570 cubes if you can find a 4.75 stroke crank and 4.375 bore, or you can go 540 with a 4.5 stroke. You just can't beat big cubes when you are going to put a road gear in the car and it is HEAVY. The BIG motor will allow you to go with a 3.23 gear and have the same torque as a 500 with the 3.73 at the rear axles, and you can then tighten the converter some to make it lock up better, reducing the rpm even more. I built a 535 with 906 heads many years ago, and all I had was a stock high stall 340/Hemi 10 3/4 factory converter. It would stall 3700 rpm with a 590 cam in it! Too bad it only lasted six passes. So in your case, given you find blocks in either size that are in good shape, go big. If the best block you find (sonic check) is a low deck, then I would go with it. Ring seal is also important, and you don't want to split a cylinder by using a marginal block.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: 400 vs 440 stroker.
[Re: gregsdart]
#1482589
08/16/13 11:26 AM
08/16/13 11:26 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,004
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,004
U.S.S.A.
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A question is how big is the engine compartment in the car this is going in ? If it's tight then use the 400 block , if not then I would use the RB , better intake choices and a taller piston which will be more stable in a street engine . I'd also look at a stepping up to a roller cam if you are planning on going to a roller tip rocker setup for longevity and less  with the oil and flat tappet issues ... assuming the budget allows.
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Re: 400 vs 440 stroker.
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#1482591
08/16/13 07:57 PM
08/16/13 07:57 PM
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 474
Alberta, Canada
451Guy
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 474
Alberta, Canada
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I have had 4 stroked 400 combos so you know what my answer is. The 451 in my 3100lb Demon went 10.07 with max wedge ported Indy SR's. My 69 Charger went 12.07 with a Eddy Rpm Headed 451. Demon went 9.56 with a 400 based 512 with the same Indy heads and same cam. I was lucky and found a 230 casting number block for the Demon. I put a 512 in the Charger and it went 11.39 with ported Edelbrocks Heads and a garbage converter. 1.72 60' Time!!!! All of these passes are at a track with 2200 feet actual elevation. The best corrected altitude was around 3300 - 3400 feet.
As you can see I am a fan of the 400 Stroker!
Thanx 451 Guy
512 cu in 71 Demon Super Street Car - NO LONGER - Broke Crank
Best ET 9.57 @ 139.96
451 cu in Pump Gas - 71 Demon Super Street Car
Best ET 9.99 @ 136.80
512 cu in 69 Charger R/T
Best ET 11.39 @ 118.11
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Re: 400 vs 440 stroker.
[Re: fishy340]
#1482596
08/18/13 01:51 PM
08/18/13 01:51 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
StealthWedge67
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
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Partial fill, studs, and a girdle..... I would think that a 440 block set up like this should be fine up to 600.
I run a studded 230 casting 400 block. I'm only making around 510 hp though. I figure if I ever rebuild the top end to make more beans, I have a block I can work safely with.
LemonWedge - Street heavy / Strip ready - 11.07 @ 120
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