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Re: 383 starter size problem
[Re: 64dodge572]
#1476942
08/19/13 12:42 PM
08/19/13 12:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,632
Nashville, TN
MOPARMIKE69
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,632
Nashville, TN
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Quote:
Quote:
(quote),Talked to Wayne Brewer at the Nats. He gave me the diameter measurements of the correct flywheel. I compared my inspection cover with one of his 10.5 ones and they match, and my bell is alum also. So this weekend I will be pulling the flywheel and then I will also be able to confirm the bell housing. Oh and just for general info he said there isn't any way to put the flywheel in backwards and bolt up the clutch.(quote),
Mr Brewer needs to call me,!! Because I have seen flywheels put in backwards,and clutch bolted up!! as well, so yes it can be done ,is done, !!
still appears you have the wrong flywheel as well!
Show me a picture of a mopar V8 flywheel bolted up to a crank backwards with all 6 bolts? Can't be done.
Here is Proof Brewers is right. I already posted one side of the flywheel. Here is the other side.
69 Road Runner vert
69 GTX hard top
70 Road Runner 4 speed
70 Hemi Cuda vert
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Re: 383 starter size problem
[Re: MOPARMIKE69]
#1476943
08/19/13 03:01 PM
08/19/13 03:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,008
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,008
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
(quote),Talked to Wayne Brewer at the Nats. He gave me the diameter measurements of the correct flywheel. I compared my inspection cover with one of his 10.5 ones and they match, and my bell is alum also. So this weekend I will be pulling the flywheel and then I will also be able to confirm the bell housing. Oh and just for general info he said there isn't any way to put the flywheel in backwards and bolt up the clutch.(quote),
Mr Brewer needs to call me,!! Because I have seen flywheels put in backwards,and clutch bolted up!! as well, so yes it can be done ,is done, !!
still appears you have the wrong flywheel as well!
Show me a picture of a mopar V8 flywheel bolted up to a crank backwards with all 6 bolts? Can't be done.
Here is Proof Brewers is right. I already posted one side of the flywheel. Here is the other side.
One could bolt the clutch on that side , it wouldn't work well but it would bolt one ...
Picture of the starter ?
It looks like the ring gear is in the right p[lace ... photo is a little too close up of the side ... Do you know if that is the original bellhousing to that engine ?
I'm going to have to scare the spiders out from under my dart and get a snails eye view of what the 130 tooth wheel looks like mounted up in there ....
One of the bolt holes on the starter is larger than it needs to be but with the starter snout in the pilot of the bellhousing there really isn't any adjustment so the only thing that may cause this is you have some oddball starter that looks correct or the TIR is HUGE between the bell and the engine.
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Re: 383 starter size problem
[Re: JohnRR]
#1476945
08/19/13 04:52 PM
08/19/13 04:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,632
Nashville, TN
MOPARMIKE69
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,632
Nashville, TN
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
(quote),Talked to Wayne Brewer at the Nats. He gave me the diameter measurements of the correct flywheel. I compared my inspection cover with one of his 10.5 ones and they match, and my bell is alum also. So this weekend I will be pulling the flywheel and then I will also be able to confirm the bell housing. Oh and just for general info he said there isn't any way to put the flywheel in backwards and bolt up the clutch.(quote),
Mr Brewer needs to call me,!! Because I have seen flywheels put in backwards,and clutch bolted up!! as well, so yes it can be done ,is done, !!
still appears you have the wrong flywheel as well!
Show me a picture of a mopar V8 flywheel bolted up to a crank backwards with all 6 bolts? Can't be done.
Here is Proof Brewers is right. I already posted one side of the flywheel. Here is the other side.
One could bolt the clutch on that side , it wouldn't work well but it would bolt one ...
Picture of the starter ?
It looks like the ring gear is in the right p[lace ... photo is a little too close up of the side ... Do you know if that is the original bellhousing to that engine ?
I'm going to have to scare the spiders out from under my dart and get a snails eye view of what the 130 tooth wheel looks like mounted up in there ....
One of the bolt holes on the starter is larger than it needs to be but with the starter snout in the pilot of the bellhousing there really isn't any adjustment so the only thing that may cause this is you have some oddball starter that looks correct or the TIR is HUGE between the bell and the engine.
Don't know if it is an original flywheel. 
I am going to take the starter and compare to another even though the casting number is correct the gear may be too big?
69 Road Runner vert
69 GTX hard top
70 Road Runner 4 speed
70 Hemi Cuda vert
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Re: 383 starter size problem
[Re: JohnRR]
#1476947
08/20/13 09:00 AM
08/20/13 09:00 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,632
Nashville, TN
MOPARMIKE69
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,632
Nashville, TN
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After talking with Wayne Brewer and measuring the diameter of the flywheel he thinks it should be good. Does make sense when it is the correct diameter.
Compared the starter to another one that has been working in another engine. SAME.
So it has to be a problem with the bell housing position. Maybe no dowel pins or maybe offsets. Will pull it tonight.
After all this I went ahead and took the transmission in to have it gone through. Eventhough the seller told me it was rebuilt it was leaking out of the bottom shift lever. Really can't trust anything at this point.
69 Road Runner vert
69 GTX hard top
70 Road Runner 4 speed
70 Hemi Cuda vert
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Re: 383 starter size problem
[Re: MOPARMIKE69]
#1476948
08/20/13 09:49 AM
08/20/13 09:49 AM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,565
tennessee
pushbutton
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,565
tennessee
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Quote:
After talking with Wayne Brewer and measuring the diameter of the flywheel he thinks it should be good. Does make sense when it is the correct diameter.
Compared the starter to another one that has been working in another engine. SAME.
So it has to be a problem with the bell housing position. Maybe no dowel pins or maybe offsets. Will pull it tonight.
After all this I went ahead and took the transmission in to have it gone through. Eventhough the seller told me it was rebuilt it was leaking out of the bottom shift lever. Really can't trust anything at this point.
 
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Re: 383 starter size problem
[Re: pushbutton]
#1476949
08/20/13 03:18 PM
08/20/13 03:18 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,361
PA
70HemiGTX
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,361
PA
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Re: 383 starter size problem
[Re: MOPARMIKE69]
#1476951
08/20/13 08:09 PM
08/20/13 08:09 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,072
Niles , Ohio
therocks
oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
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oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,072
Niles , Ohio
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Even if you pulled the dowels no way would the bell be off that much.The bolts would never line up.If I get to the other garage I have 2 flywheels there that are 130s.I also have the OE bell for a 130 wheel.Rocky
Chrysler Firepower
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Re: 383 starter size problem
[Re: pushbutton]
#1476953
08/21/13 08:48 AM
08/21/13 08:48 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,008
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,008
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
Is not a 513 bell a 11" and a 130 tooth wheel a 10-1/2"? If I have read the other post correctly that's what he has.
No the 513 bell is for the 130 tooth wheel.
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Re: 383 starter size problem
[Re: JohnRR]
#1476954
08/21/13 09:10 AM
08/21/13 09:10 AM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,565
tennessee
pushbutton
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,565
tennessee
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Quote:
Quote:
Is not a 513 bell a 11" and a 130 tooth wheel a 10-1/2"? If I have read the other post correctly that's what he has.
No the 513 bell is for the 130 tooth wheel. [/quote
OK. One of Galen's books list a 513 as a 11" bell.
I guess in 1970 you use a 10-1/2" clutch in a 11" bell if the book is correct. just trying to figure out what's going on here.
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Re: 383 starter size problem
[Re: pushbutton]
#1476955
08/21/13 11:33 AM
08/21/13 11:33 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,008
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,008
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Is not a 513 bell a 11" and a 130 tooth wheel a 10-1/2"? If I have read the other post correctly that's what he has.
No the 513 bell is for the 130 tooth wheel.
OK. One of Galen's books list a 513 as a 11" bell.
I guess in 1970 you use a 10-1/2" clutch in a 11" bell if the book is correct. just trying to figure out what's going on here.
That version of Galen's book is wrong, the 513 is, and only ever was, a bellhousing made to be used with a 130 tooth flywheel.
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Re: 383 starter size problem
[Re: JohnRR]
#1476957
08/21/13 01:46 PM
08/21/13 01:46 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,565
tennessee
pushbutton
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,565
tennessee
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Is not a 513 bell a 11" and a 130 tooth wheel a 10-1/2"? If I have read the other post correctly that's what he has.
No the 513 bell is for the 130 tooth wheel.
OK. One of Galen's books list a 513 as a 11" bell.
I guess in 1970 you use a 10-1/2" clutch in a 11" bell if the book is correct. just trying to figure out what's going on here.
That version of Galen's book is wrong, the 513 is, and only ever was, a bellhousing made to be used with a 130 tooth flywheel.
It may very well be wrong but I have a 10-1/2" cast iron bell and a 130 tooth flywheel out of a 64 B Body.
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Re: 383 starter size problem
[Re: pushbutton]
#1476958
08/21/13 03:00 PM
08/21/13 03:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,008
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,008
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Is not a 513 bell a 11" and a 130 tooth wheel a 10-1/2"? If I have read the other post correctly that's what he has.
No the 513 bell is for the 130 tooth wheel.
OK. One of Galen's books list a 513 as a 11" bell.
I guess in 1970 you use a 10-1/2" clutch in a 11" bell if the book is correct. just trying to figure out what's going on here.
That version of Galen's book is wrong, the 513 is, and only ever was, a bellhousing made to be used with a 130 tooth flywheel.
It may very well be wrong but I have a 10-1/2" cast iron bell and a 130 tooth flywheel out of a 64 B Body.
Yes but that doesn't answer the issue that is the subject of this thread.
The specific bellhousing used in a 1970 RR with big blocks AND hemis is the alum. 513 bell, which the OP confirmed is what he has, it takes a 130 tooth wheel ONLY. The 130 tooth wheel accepts the 10.5" pattern pressure plate, there is a scalloped version of the 10.5 pattern plate that accepts a 10.95" clutch disc.
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Re: 383 starter size problem
[Re: mopar_man]
#1476961
08/21/13 11:02 PM
08/21/13 11:02 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,008
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,008
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
Isn't the pre 1960 flywheel larger but still has 130 teeth to match the coarser bendix drive of the old direct drive starter ?
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Is this a double feature?
