Moparts
383 starter size problem *Updated* +update+
Posted By: MOPARMIKE69
383 starter size problem *Updated* +update+ - 07/31/13 02:17 PM
I bought a 70 runner with an original 383, 4sp set up. Engine already rebuilt and dynoed (I have the paper work) Anyway I get all the wiring etc ready for a start up and the starter hits the flywheel rather than engaging. I take off the inspection cover and sure enough the flywheel is almost rubbing the case of teh starter.
So are there different starters for 4 speeds? Tried to measure the flywheel in the car and it looks like 13inch. Maybe 12.5.
It has headers and before I remove the starter I need to know. It has to be either wrong starter or maybe even too big of a flywheel (God Forbid!)
Thanks for any insight.
Posted By: dennismopar73
Re: 383 starter size problem - 07/31/13 02:29 PM
Wrong flywheel
Posted By: therocks
Re: 383 starter size problem - 07/31/13 03:35 PM
Pull the bell and count the teeth.there are only 2 wheels for a BB except hemi in cars.Either 130 or 143.I doubt a 143 will fit a 130 bell.If reversed the starter wont be near the teeth.Maybe someone used a truck setup.Rocky
Posted By: MOPARMIKE69
Re: 383 starter size problem - 07/31/13 03:38 PM
So I possibly could replace the bell and fix the problem without pulling the clutch and flywheel?
Posted By: therocks
Re: 383 starter size problem - 07/31/13 03:59 PM
Its possible.Pull the bell and count the teeth.If you can turn the engine you can mark the teeth and turn the wheel and count them thru the inspection cover.I doubt a truck flywheel would fit in a car bell.Rocky
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: 383 starter size problem - 07/31/13 04:36 PM
Do dyno operators use an elec motor attachment to start engines??? If not they would have used a regular starter in the bell. I would pull the starter & see what you see
Posted By: MOPARMIKE69
Re: 383 starter size problem - 07/31/13 04:50 PM
Quote:
Do dyno operators use an elec motor attachment to start engines??? If not they would have used a regular starter in the bell. I would pull the starter & see what you see
Those were my thoughts exactly, that's why my surprise when the starter did not fit.
Posted By: skicker
Re: 383 starter size problem - 07/31/13 06:22 PM
I have a big block blow proof bell housing that has the positioning holes for both a 130 tooth and a 143 tooth flywheel. Could the starter be bolted in the wrong holes for the size of flywheel? That would be an easy fix if that's the case.
Posted By: MOPARMIKE69
Re: 383 starter size problem - 07/31/13 06:49 PM
I will for sure be checking that out! If I could be so lucky? thanks
Posted By: pushbutton
Re: 383 starter size problem - 07/31/13 07:05 PM
Quote:
I will for sure be checking that out! If I could be so lucky? thanks
On a 11" bell the two widest two holes for the insp cover are 15 3/4" center to center.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 383 starter size problem - 07/31/13 08:32 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Do dyno operators use an elec motor attachment to start engines??? If not they would have used a regular starter in the bell. I would pull the starter & see what you see
Those were my thoughts exactly, that's why my surprise when the starter did not fit.
What is making either of you think that the dyno used that bellhousing and starter to fire the engine? The last 2 dynos I was on , a Superflow and a Stuska , both had their own starter motor, even iff this bell was used as an adapter on the dyno the engine still would have ran.
The only Mopar engine that I know of with it's own 4 speed starter motor is the 66-69 Hemi. And I don't see why a 143 tooth wheel would not fit in a 130 tooth bellhousing , the bellhousing flange size is the same for all the bellhousings.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 383 starter size problem - 07/31/13 08:34 PM
Quote:
I will for sure be checking that out! If I could be so lucky? thanks
Does the car have a blowproof bell or a stock bell ? and not all bells are made to work with both size flywheels , especially not stock bells.
Posted By: MOPARMIKE69
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/02/13 01:18 PM
Ok so I have counted the teeth... 130, I have measured the bellhousing...13 3/4 so it is an 11 inch. Therefore it must be the starter. I will be pulling it. Thanks to those who were helpful.
Posted By: pushbutton
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/02/13 01:37 PM
Quote:
Ok so I have counted the teeth... 130, I have measured the bellhousing...13 3/4 so it is an 11 inch. Therefore it must be the starter. I will be pulling it. Thanks to those who were helpful.
10-1/2" flywheel with a 11" bell?
Posted By: therocks
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/02/13 02:34 PM
11 inch bell and 130 tooth wheel wont work.The starter will be too far from the teeth.You need a 10 1/2 inch bell or 143 wheel.Only thing that fits both is a scattershield.Rocky
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/02/13 02:39 PM
This is very confusing , he says he has a 130 tooth wheel but the bell is only 13 3/4 , so it's not an 11" bell as that is 15 3/4 , and he says the starter gear is hitting the flywheel .
Mike what kind of starter is it, conventional or mini ? There is only so many starters that will physically bolt on there and the hemi direct drive is not one of them, so any one that should bolt on there should work , it's the same basic starter , you could take a starter from a /6 and bolt it on a 440-6pk and it will fit and turn the engine over.
Posted By: RJS
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/02/13 03:24 PM
Back in my auto parts days a p/n2250 starter fit all bigblocks except HEMI.
Do you have the cast iron bell or the aluminum bell?
The cast iron needs the 143 tooth flywheel and the aluminum needs a 130 tooth
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/02/13 03:55 PM
Quote:
Back in my auto parts days a p/n2250 starter fit all bigblocks except HEMI.
Do you have the cast iron bell or the aluminum bell?
The cast iron needs the 143 tooth flywheel and the aluminum needs a 130 tooth
Ron there are also cast iron 130 tooth bells prior to 1970, but a 70 should have the alum. one.
Posted By: RJS
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/02/13 05:06 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Back in my auto parts days a p/n2250 starter fit all bigblocks except HEMI.
Do you have the cast iron bell or the aluminum bell?
The cast iron needs the 143 tooth flywheel and the aluminum needs a 130 tooth
Ron there are also cast iron 130 tooth bells prior to 1970, but a 70 should have the alum. one.
John your right, I usually don't speak about those little engines (383)just 440's.
And I believe the mind is dusty on that part# I through out there, may have been 3250 starter.
Ron 
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/02/13 06:47 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Back in my auto parts days a p/n2250 starter fit all bigblocks except HEMI.
Do you have the cast iron bell or the aluminum bell?
The cast iron needs the 143 tooth flywheel and the aluminum needs a 130 tooth
Ron there are also cast iron 130 tooth bells prior to 1970, but a 70 should have the alum. one.
John your right, I usually don't speak about those little engines (383)just 440's.
And I believe the mind is dusty on that part# I through out there, may have been 3250 starter.
Ron
The only difference between the starters is their torque rating, the nose of them that bolts to the bell or the auto trans is the same.
He still hasn't said what starter he is working with.? Even though one of the mounting holes is bigger than the diameter of the bolt going thru it the starter snout pilots into the bellhousing so there shouldn't be an alignment issue. If he is working with a starter without he pilot snout that could be causing the issue .
Posted By: MOPARMIKE69
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/02/13 09:12 PM
Quote:
Ok so I have counted the teeth... 130, I have measured the bellhousing...13 3/4 so it is an 11 inch. Therefore it must be the starter. I will be pulling it. Thanks to those who were helpful.
SORRY TYPO.... it is 15 3/4. Alum original bell housing. 130 teeth flywheel. The starter still hits the flywheel. I am out of town on business and plan to pull the starter Saturday. Makes no sense to me that it isn't lined up and engageing.
Posted By: Supercuda
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/03/13 12:35 AM
Quote:
Back in my auto parts days a p/n2250 starter fit all bigblocks except HEMI.
Do you have the cast iron bell or the aluminum bell?
The cast iron needs the 143 tooth flywheel and the aluminum needs a 130 tooth
Guarantee that part number would not have fit my 64 300, 413, A745 manual trans. It required a direct drive starter.
Posted By: RJS
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/03/13 02:23 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Back in my auto parts days a p/n2250 starter fit all bigblocks except HEMI.
Do you have the cast iron bell or the aluminum bell?
The cast iron needs the 143 tooth flywheel and the aluminum needs a 130 tooth
Guarantee that part number would not have fit my 64 300, 413, A745 manual trans. It required a direct drive starter.
I guess I have to be more exact in my replies.
Never in a million years would a 64 anything be on my mind.
I only think in Muscle Car...
Posted By: Supercuda
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/03/13 04:25 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Back in my auto parts days a p/n2250 starter fit all bigblocks except HEMI.
Do you have the cast iron bell or the aluminum bell?
The cast iron needs the 143 tooth flywheel and the aluminum needs a 130 tooth
Guarantee that part number would not have fit my 64 300, 413, A745 manual trans. It required a direct drive starter.
I guess I have to be more exact in my replies.
Never in a million years would a 64 anything be on my mind.
I only think in Muscle Car...
Guess a 64 Max Wedge B body is not a muscle car?
take the blinders off.
Posted By: pushbutton
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/05/13 10:23 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Ok so I have counted the teeth... 130, I have measured the bellhousing...13 3/4 so it is an 11 inch. Therefore it must be the starter. I will be pulling it. Thanks to those who were helpful.
SORRY TYPO.... it is 15 3/4. Alum original bell housing. 130 teeth flywheel. The starter still hits the flywheel. I am out of town on business and plan to pull the starter Saturday. Makes no sense to me that it isn't lined up and engageing.
Wondering if you found the problem.
Posted By: MOPARMIKE69
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/06/13 02:49 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Ok so I have counted the teeth... 130, I have measured the bellhousing...13 3/4 so it is an 11 inch. Therefore it must be the starter. I will be pulling it. Thanks to those who were helpful.
SORRY TYPO.... it is 15 3/4. Alum original bell housing. 130 teeth flywheel. The starter still hits the flywheel. I am out of town on business and plan to pull the starter Saturday. Makes no sense to me that it isn't lined up and engageing.
Wondering if you found the problem.
Ok ..I have been working on these cars for 40 + years and never ran into this. I finally got the starter out after removing just about everything to get the hooker headers out of the way so I could pull the starter. Starter is correct big block starter. Bell housing is alum original style. 15 3/4 from bolt to bolt. Flywheel is 130 teeth ..BUT! The flywheel hits the housing of the starter and the gear from the starter hit the side of the flywheel and cannot in gage!
AAAHHHGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!
No part number on bell housing, no way to measure the flywheel. Going to the Mopar Nats with measurements to see what I can find out. God I am pissed!
Posted By: pushbutton
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/06/13 03:04 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Ok so I have counted the teeth... 130, I have measured the bellhousing...13 3/4 so it is an 11 inch. Therefore it must be the starter. I will be pulling it. Thanks to those who were helpful.
SORRY TYPO.... it is 15 3/4. Alum original bell housing. 130 teeth flywheel. The starter still hits the flywheel. I am out of town on business and plan to pull the starter Saturday. Makes no sense to me that it isn't lined up and engageing.
Wondering if you found the problem.
Ok ..I have been working on these cars for 40 + years and never ran into this. I finally got the starter out after removing just about everything to get the hooker headers out of the way so I could pull the starter. Starter is correct big block starter. Bell housing is alum original style. 15 3/4 from bolt to bolt. Flywheel is 130 teeth ..BUT! The flywheel hits the housing of the starter and the gear from the starter hit the side of the flywheel and cannot in gage!
AAAHHHGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!
No part number on bell housing, no way to measure the flywheel. Going to the Mopar Nats with measurements to see what I can find out. God I am pissed!
Might check with Wayne Brewer at the Nats and see what he thinks. Sounds like you have a 10-1/2" flywheel. I can't understand why it would hit in a 11" bell. Thought maybe he would have responded to this thread by now,maybe too busy getting ready for the Nats. Thanks for the update. Have a safe trip i'm leaving thur morning myself. 
Posted By: superbeedave
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/06/13 03:11 AM
Gotta agree!
Posted By: Cab_Burge
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/06/13 06:30 AM
The casting number is on the bellhousing in one of the recessed holes on the aluminum bellhousings
, it will read like 2974345 or someything similar. It will also have a code for the date and time it was cast on
Write the casting number down and I will tell you which year and application that bellhousing is for
Posted By: MOPARMIKE69
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/06/13 01:06 PM
I will check for part number again. Here is a pic I took last night. It shows the flywheel position in relation to the hole for the snout of the starter. You can see it over laps.
Also can anyone measure from the bottom of the block to the edge of your flywheel. That seems to be a measurement that can be accurate enough to tell if the flywheel is too big. PLEASE????
Posted By: dennismopar73
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/06/13 11:42 PM
as I posted before wrong fly wheel
Posted By: DAYCLONA
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/07/13 01:49 AM
Quote:
I will check for part number again. Here is a pic I took last night. It shows the flywheel position in relation to the hole for the snout of the starter. You can see it over laps.
Also can anyone measure from the bottom of the block to the edge of your flywheel. That seems to be a measurement that can be accurate enough to tell if the flywheel is too big. PLEASE????
Sorry but even Helen Keller knows that flywheel has to come out, is it just me?, or is that flywheel mounted "backwards"? 
Posted By: dennismopar73
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/07/13 02:28 AM
Quote:
Quote:
I will check for part number again. Here is a pic I took last night. It shows the flywheel position in relation to the hole for the snout of the starter. You can see it over laps.
Also can anyone measure from the bottom of the block to the edge of your flywheel. That seems to be a measurement that can be accurate enough to tell if the flywheel is too big. PLEASE????
Sorry but even Helen Keller knows that flywheel has to come out, is it just me?, or is that flywheel mounted "backwards"?
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/07/13 02:59 AM
Quote:
Quote:
I will check for part number again. Here is a pic I took last night. It shows the flywheel position in relation to the hole for the snout of the starter. You can see it over laps.
Also can anyone measure from the bottom of the block to the edge of your flywheel. That seems to be a measurement that can be accurate enough to tell if the flywheel is too big. PLEASE????
Sorry but even Helen Keller knows that flywheel has to come out, is it just me?, or is that flywheel mounted "backwards"?
Does look like it is in backwards ... 
Posted By: superbeedave
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/07/13 05:04 AM
To tell you the truth I thought from earlier when he poster that picture it looked kind of weird. I too thought it was backwards.
Posted By: elmor353
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/07/13 05:17 AM
That makes several of us. I was looking at the picture and it just didn't look right. If the flywheel is on backwards, how the heck could he bolt on the clutch and pressure plate?
Posted By: DAYCLONA
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/07/13 06:48 AM
Quote:
That makes several of us. I was looking at the picture and it just didn't look right. If the flywheel is on backwards, how the heck could he bolt on the clutch and pressure plate?
The pressure plate holes on flywheels are generally drilled thru and tapped, not blind holes, so in reality you could bolt the pressure plate on the "reverse" side,... here's the McLeod steel Bblk Mopar flywheel, looks to me the ring gear should be towards the engine side....
Posted By: bdusted440
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/07/13 07:45 AM
Quote:
I will check for part number again. Here is a pic I took last night. It shows the flywheel position in relation to the hole for the snout of the starter. You can see it over laps.
Also can anyone measure from the bottom of the block to the edge of your flywheel. That seems to be a measurement that can be accurate enough to tell if the flywheel is too big. PLEASE????
Your fly wheel is on backwards. Ring gear goes toward the engine . Or at least it does on mine. Was curious had to look at mine.LOL
Posted By: MOPARMIKE69
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/07/13 12:54 PM
OMG!!!!!! What an idiot! Well that settles that. Thanks for your help guys. Even with it in backwards it still has to be the wrong size. I know what I will be buying at the Nats!
Posted By: pushbutton
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/07/13 04:14 PM
Quote:
OMG!!!!!! What an idiot! Well that settles that. Thanks for your help guys. Even with it in backwards it still has to be the wrong size. I know what I will be buying at the Nats!
Can't tell from the pic but would it hit the starter housing if the flywheel was turned around?
If I had time I think I would pull the trans and check. If you have a 130 tooth F wheel and a 11" bell I don't see how it would. If this was the case you'd need a 11" flywheel anyway. Just make SURE what you have before you buy another flywheel.
Posted By: superbeedave
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/07/13 04:33 PM
Pull it tonight, If it is on backwards switch it around. Get a couple knowledgable guys to help you. Maybe, just maybe it is on backwards and you switch it around then we all can have a good laugh at the Nats. If not you can take flywheel with you to the Nats. and compare before buying a new one. And if you tell us were you will be we all can get a good look at. You've got ten hours or 48 hours or so and the clock is ticking! Lol!!
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/07/13 05:45 PM
Quote:
OMG!!!!!! What an idiot! Well that settles that. Thanks for your help guys. Even with it in backwards it still has to be the wrong size. I know what I will be buying at the Nats!
No it shouldn't be the wrong size if it's a 130 tooth wheel and the original 513 bell. The pilot hole will not be blocked with the wheel in correctly. If you feel like you have to buy a new flywheel get a billet wheel.
Posted By: MOPARMIKE69
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/07/13 08:44 PM
Quote:
Pull it tonight, If it is on backwards switch it around. Get a couple knowledgable guys to help you. Maybe, just maybe it is on backwards and you switch it around then we all can have a good laugh at the Nats. If not you can take flywheel with you to the Nats. and compare before buying a new one. And if you tell us were you will be we all can get a good look at. You've got ten hours or 48 hours or so and the clock is ticking! Lol!!
I can do it, just hate doing it in the car lying on my back. I have built many National show winners from the bottom up. I just always assemble everything on the k-member and then drop the car on top. I hate pulling this all back out from underneath. Not enough spare time to pull it before we leave at 6:00 in the morning for the Nats. But thanks for the encouragement.
Posted By: superbeedave
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/15/13 01:20 AM
MoparMike69, Did you ever get this issue taken care of? Just curious!
Posted By: pushbutton
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/15/13 06:05 PM
Quote:
MoparMike69, Did you ever get this issue taken care of? Just curious!
Posted By: MOPARMIKE69
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/16/13 01:00 PM
Talked to Wayne Brewer at the Nats. He gave me the diameter measurements of the correct flywheel. I compared my inspection cover with one of his 10.5 ones and they match, and my bell is alum also. So this weekend I will be pulling the flywheel and then I will also be able to confirm the bell housing. Oh and just for general info he said there isn't any way to put the flywheel in backwards and bolt up the clutch.
I hope to be able to move on after this week end! I will update.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/16/13 02:39 PM
Quote:
Oh and just for general info he said there isn't any way to put the flywheel in backwards and bolt up the clutch.
I hope to be able to move on after this week end! I will update.
If that is the case them what may have happened is that someone swapped the flywheel ring gear and put it on wrong ??? I just had one flipped because of some ground teeth , heat it up and it falls off , heat it up and slip it on ???
Posted By: bdusted440
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/17/13 04:25 AM
Quote:
Talked to Wayne Brewer at the Nats. He gave me the diameter measurements of the correct flywheel. I compared my inspection cover with one of his 10.5 ones and they match, and my bell is alum also. So this weekend I will be pulling the flywheel and then I will also be able to confirm the bell housing. Oh and just for general info he said there isn't any way to put the flywheel in backwards and bolt up the clutch.
I hope to be able to move on after this week end! I will update.
As long as the pressure plate holes go all the way threw yes ya can.ive seen some really hokey stuff done.like leaving bolts out of the flex plate because they don't all line up .because it was backward. Where theirs a will their is a way to coble it up.
Posted By: dennismopar73
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/17/13 04:24 PM
(quote),Talked to Wayne Brewer at the Nats. He gave me the diameter measurements of the correct flywheel. I compared my inspection cover with one of his 10.5 ones and they match, and my bell is alum also. So this weekend I will be pulling the flywheel and then I will also be able to confirm the bell housing. Oh and just for general info he said there isn't any way to put the flywheel in backwards and bolt up the clutch.(quote),
Mr Brewer needs to call me,!! Because I have seen flywheels put in backwards,and clutch bolted up!! as well, so yes it can be done ,is done, !!
still appears you have the wrong flywheel as well!
Posted By: MOPARMIKE69
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/17/13 09:03 PM
Ok. pulled it all. Bell housing # 2892513. Flywheel 13 1/4 diameter. 130 tooth. ??????
Posted By: pushbutton
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/17/13 10:35 PM
Quote:
Ok. pulled it all. Bell housing # 2892513. Flywheel 13 1/4 diameter. 130 tooth. ??????
Was the flywheel on backward?
Posted By: superbeedave
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/18/13 01:19 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Ok. pulled it all. Bell housing # 2892513. Flywheel 13 1/4 diameter. 130 tooth. ??????
Was the flywheel on backward?
Bueller! Bueller! We're waiting! Gotta be something wrong. 
Posted By: MOPARMIKE69
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/18/13 02:48 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Ok. pulled it all. Bell housing # 2892513. Flywheel 13 1/4 diameter. 130 tooth. ??????
Was the flywheel on backward?
No
Posted By: pushbutton
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/18/13 02:58 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Ok. pulled it all. Bell housing # 2892513. Flywheel 13 1/4 diameter. 130 tooth. ??????
Was the flywheel on backward?
No
Keep us posted.
I also had this problem on a SixPack motor I built where the starter hit the ring gear and it turned out to be the flywheel made by Mcleoud . The ring gear was a bit closer to the starter and the gears would not mesh. I used a OEM flywheel and no more problem. My problem was compounded by a bit out of spec TIR. Check the TIR (runout)of you bell to see if it within spec .There is also a lil play in most starters where you can pull it back away from the flywheel just a tad when you tighten it to the bell.
Posted By: MOPARMIKE69
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/18/13 10:21 PM
Could not find any numbers on the flywheel. As stated earlier bell housing # 2892513 and date code of 05102. Bell housing also had penta star so it is original. I am going to check run out on bell and from there I guess replace the flywheel then bolt in the starter before putting the clutch and transmission in. This one really has me baffled and thank for all the help so far. Gonna call Brewers in the morning.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/19/13 02:07 PM
Quote:
Ok. pulled it all. Bell housing # 2892513. Flywheel 13 1/4 diameter. 130 tooth. ??????
Are you asking if that one is a 130 tooth or you have confirmed it is by counting the teeth now that it is out ?
I have looked at pictures of original flywheels and it's hard to tell if that ring gear is in the right place or not. I have a bunch of flywheels at home but I keep forgetting to drag one out, I'll look tonight if no one comes up with a picture and measurement.
Posted By: MOPARMIKE69
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/19/13 03:01 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Ok. pulled it all. Bell housing # 2892513. Flywheel 13 1/4 diameter. 130 tooth. ??????
Are you asking if that one is a 130 tooth or you have confirmed it is by counting the teeth now that it is out ?
I have looked at pictures of original flywheels and it's hard to tell if that ring gear is in the right place or not. I have a bunch of flywheels at home but I keep forgetting to drag one out, I'll look tonight if no one comes up with a picture and measurement.
No it IS a 130 tooth. Heres a pic from the side of the flywheel
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Posted By: MOPARMIKE69
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/19/13 03:03 PM
Surface
Posted By: 64dodge572
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/19/13 04:09 PM
Quote:
(quote),Talked to Wayne Brewer at the Nats. He gave me the diameter measurements of the correct flywheel. I compared my inspection cover with one of his 10.5 ones and they match, and my bell is alum also. So this weekend I will be pulling the flywheel and then I will also be able to confirm the bell housing. Oh and just for general info he said there isn't any way to put the flywheel in backwards and bolt up the clutch.(quote),
Mr Brewer needs to call me,!! Because I have seen flywheels put in backwards,and clutch bolted up!! as well, so yes it can be done ,is done, !!
still appears you have the wrong flywheel as well!
Show me a picture of a mopar V8 flywheel bolted up to a crank backwards with all 6 bolts? Can't be done.
Posted By: MOPARMIKE69
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/19/13 04:42 PM
Quote:
Quote:
(quote),Talked to Wayne Brewer at the Nats. He gave me the diameter measurements of the correct flywheel. I compared my inspection cover with one of his 10.5 ones and they match, and my bell is alum also. So this weekend I will be pulling the flywheel and then I will also be able to confirm the bell housing. Oh and just for general info he said there isn't any way to put the flywheel in backwards and bolt up the clutch.(quote),
Mr Brewer needs to call me,!! Because I have seen flywheels put in backwards,and clutch bolted up!! as well, so yes it can be done ,is done, !!
still appears you have the wrong flywheel as well!
Show me a picture of a mopar V8 flywheel bolted up to a crank backwards with all 6 bolts? Can't be done.
Here is Proof Brewers is right. I already posted one side of the flywheel. Here is the other side.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/19/13 07:01 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
(quote),Talked to Wayne Brewer at the Nats. He gave me the diameter measurements of the correct flywheel. I compared my inspection cover with one of his 10.5 ones and they match, and my bell is alum also. So this weekend I will be pulling the flywheel and then I will also be able to confirm the bell housing. Oh and just for general info he said there isn't any way to put the flywheel in backwards and bolt up the clutch.(quote),
Mr Brewer needs to call me,!! Because I have seen flywheels put in backwards,and clutch bolted up!! as well, so yes it can be done ,is done, !!
still appears you have the wrong flywheel as well!
Show me a picture of a mopar V8 flywheel bolted up to a crank backwards with all 6 bolts? Can't be done.
Here is Proof Brewers is right. I already posted one side of the flywheel. Here is the other side.
One could bolt the clutch on that side , it wouldn't work well but it would bolt one ...
Picture of the starter ?
It looks like the ring gear is in the right p[lace ... photo is a little too close up of the side ... Do you know if that is the original bellhousing to that engine ?
I'm going to have to scare the spiders out from under my dart and get a snails eye view of what the 130 tooth wheel looks like mounted up in there ....
One of the bolt holes on the starter is larger than it needs to be but with the starter snout in the pilot of the bellhousing there really isn't any adjustment so the only thing that may cause this is you have some oddball starter that looks correct or the TIR is HUGE between the bell and the engine.
Posted By: pushbutton
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/19/13 07:24 PM
Mike how thick is your flywheel measured at the outer edge? Not where it bolts to the crank. I just measured a 130 tooth one I have out of a 64 383 and it measured 1-3/8".
Posted By: MOPARMIKE69
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/19/13 08:52 PM
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(quote),Talked to Wayne Brewer at the Nats. He gave me the diameter measurements of the correct flywheel. I compared my inspection cover with one of his 10.5 ones and they match, and my bell is alum also. So this weekend I will be pulling the flywheel and then I will also be able to confirm the bell housing. Oh and just for general info he said there isn't any way to put the flywheel in backwards and bolt up the clutch.(quote),
Mr Brewer needs to call me,!! Because I have seen flywheels put in backwards,and clutch bolted up!! as well, so yes it can be done ,is done, !!
still appears you have the wrong flywheel as well!
Show me a picture of a mopar V8 flywheel bolted up to a crank backwards with all 6 bolts? Can't be done.
Here is Proof Brewers is right. I already posted one side of the flywheel. Here is the other side.
One could bolt the clutch on that side , it wouldn't work well but it would bolt one ...
Picture of the starter ?
It looks like the ring gear is in the right p[lace ... photo is a little too close up of the side ... Do you know if that is the original bellhousing to that engine ?
I'm going to have to scare the spiders out from under my dart and get a snails eye view of what the 130 tooth wheel looks like mounted up in there ....
One of the bolt holes on the starter is larger than it needs to be but with the starter snout in the pilot of the bellhousing there really isn't any adjustment so the only thing that may cause this is you have some oddball starter that looks correct or the TIR is HUGE between the bell and the engine.
Don't know if it is an original flywheel.
I am going to take the starter and compare to another even though the casting number is correct the gear may be too big?
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/19/13 11:19 PM
Only found one picture of an original 130 tooth wheel and it has a casting number on it with a 22 prefix , You usually see a casting number on original wheels . It looks like the ring gear is on correct as it goes against a step. the only 10.5 original wheel I own is bolted in between and engine and trans and I won't be pulling it apart anytime soon.
Did you buy another flywheel at the nats ?
Posted By: MOPARMIKE69
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/20/13 01:00 PM
After talking with Wayne Brewer and measuring the diameter of the flywheel he thinks it should be good. Does make sense when it is the correct diameter.
Compared the starter to another one that has been working in another engine. SAME.
So it has to be a problem with the bell housing position. Maybe no dowel pins or maybe offsets. Will pull it tonight.
After all this I went ahead and took the transmission in to have it gone through. Eventhough the seller told me it was rebuilt it was leaking out of the bottom shift lever. Really can't trust anything at this point.
Posted By: pushbutton
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/20/13 01:49 PM
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After talking with Wayne Brewer and measuring the diameter of the flywheel he thinks it should be good. Does make sense when it is the correct diameter.
Compared the starter to another one that has been working in another engine. SAME.
So it has to be a problem with the bell housing position. Maybe no dowel pins or maybe offsets. Will pull it tonight.
After all this I went ahead and took the transmission in to have it gone through. Eventhough the seller told me it was rebuilt it was leaking out of the bottom shift lever. Really can't trust anything at this point.
Posted By: 70HemiGTX
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/20/13 07:18 PM
Posted By: superbeedave
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/20/13 09:56 PM
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Hey man, Don't hog all the Dude! I need a Is this a double feature?
Posted By: therocks
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/21/13 12:09 AM
Even if you pulled the dowels no way would the bell be off that much.The bolts would never line up.If I get to the other garage I have 2 flywheels there that are 130s.I also have the OE bell for a 130 wheel.Rocky
Posted By: pushbutton
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/21/13 12:50 AM
Is not a 513 bell a 11" and a 130 tooth wheel a 10-1/2"?
If I have read the other post correctly that's what he has.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/21/13 12:48 PM
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Is not a 513 bell a 11" and a 130 tooth wheel a 10-1/2"? If I have read the other post correctly that's what he has.
No the 513 bell is for the 130 tooth wheel.
Posted By: pushbutton
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/21/13 01:10 PM
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Is not a 513 bell a 11" and a 130 tooth wheel a 10-1/2"? If I have read the other post correctly that's what he has.
No the 513 bell is for the 130 tooth wheel. [/quote
OK. One of Galen's books list a 513 as a 11" bell.
I guess in 1970 you use a 10-1/2" clutch in a 11" bell if the book is correct. just trying to figure out what's going on here.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/21/13 03:33 PM
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Is not a 513 bell a 11" and a 130 tooth wheel a 10-1/2"? If I have read the other post correctly that's what he has.
No the 513 bell is for the 130 tooth wheel.
OK. One of Galen's books list a 513 as a 11" bell.
I guess in 1970 you use a 10-1/2" clutch in a 11" bell if the book is correct. just trying to figure out what's going on here.
That version of Galen's book is wrong, the 513 is, and only ever was, a bellhousing made to be used with a 130 tooth flywheel.
Posted By: superbeedave
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/21/13 04:03 PM
This is driving me
Posted By: pushbutton
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/21/13 05:46 PM
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Is not a 513 bell a 11" and a 130 tooth wheel a 10-1/2"? If I have read the other post correctly that's what he has.
No the 513 bell is for the 130 tooth wheel.
OK. One of Galen's books list a 513 as a 11" bell.
I guess in 1970 you use a 10-1/2" clutch in a 11" bell if the book is correct. just trying to figure out what's going on here.
That version of Galen's book is wrong, the 513 is, and only ever was, a bellhousing made to be used with a 130 tooth flywheel.
It may very well be wrong but I have a 10-1/2" cast iron bell and a 130 tooth flywheel out of a 64 B Body.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/21/13 07:00 PM
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Is not a 513 bell a 11" and a 130 tooth wheel a 10-1/2"? If I have read the other post correctly that's what he has.
No the 513 bell is for the 130 tooth wheel.
OK. One of Galen's books list a 513 as a 11" bell.
I guess in 1970 you use a 10-1/2" clutch in a 11" bell if the book is correct. just trying to figure out what's going on here.
That version of Galen's book is wrong, the 513 is, and only ever was, a bellhousing made to be used with a 130 tooth flywheel.
It may very well be wrong but I have a 10-1/2" cast iron bell and a 130 tooth flywheel out of a 64 B Body.
Yes but that doesn't answer the issue that is the subject of this thread.
The specific bellhousing used in a 1970 RR with big blocks AND hemis is the alum. 513 bell, which the OP confirmed is what he has, it takes a 130 tooth wheel ONLY. The 130 tooth wheel accepts the 10.5" pattern pressure plate, there is a scalloped version of the 10.5 pattern plate that accepts a 10.95" clutch disc.
Posted By: pushbutton
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/21/13 08:07 PM
the 513 is, and only ever was, a bellhousing made to be used with a 130 tooth flywheel.
Yes but that doesn't answer the issue that is the subject of this thread.
The specific bellhousing used in a 1970 RR with big blocks AND hemis is the alum. 513 bell, which the OP confirmed is what he has, it takes a 130 tooth wheel ONLY. The 130 tooth wheel accepts the 10.5" pattern pressure plate, there is a scalloped version of the 10.5 pattern plate that accepts a 10.95" clutch disc.
I admit that I don't know the answer to Mikes problem I was just pointing out that the 513 is not the only bell out there that uses a 130 tooth flywheel.
Posted By: mopar_man
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/22/13 12:20 AM
Isn't the pre 1960 flywheel larger but still has 130 teeth to match the coarser bendix drive of the old direct drive starter ?
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/22/13 03:02 AM
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Isn't the pre 1960 flywheel larger but still has 130 teeth to match the coarser bendix drive of the old direct drive starter ?
Posted By: pushbutton
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/22/13 07:20 PM
Posted By: superbeedave
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/22/13 10:30 PM
Posted By: pushbutton
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/23/13 09:42 PM
Posted By: pushbutton
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/26/13 02:24 PM
Any progress?
Posted By: MOPARMIKE69
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/27/13 12:10 AM
Sorry to leave everyone hanging but I have been on a 5 day raft trip shooting the rapids in the bottom of the Grand Canyon. No internet , phones, or electricity. AWESOME trip!
Anyway back in the Hotel in Vegas.
Pulled transmission and took it into the shop the last day I was in town. Really have no idea where to go now. Pulled the 513 bell and there were dowels in place. So
Starter stock and matches other original starter. Flywheel, 130 tooth, 13 1/4 diameter. Bell housing, 513, alum. What the #$%!.
Guess I am going to replace the bell since the two bottom trans mounting holes were stripped and I had to heli coil it. Then going to try to borrow from someone in the club another flywheel and test fit it with the starter. Not sure what else to do?
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/27/13 01:26 AM
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Guess I am going to replace the bell since the two bottom trans mounting holes were stripped and I had to heli coil it.
Nothing wrong with helicoils if installed properly , but if you want to waste money getting another bell you are definitely going to have to dial it in so you may as well get some practice doing the one you have.
The 13.25 number , flywheel itself or does that include the starter ring gear teeth ?
Posted By: MOPARMIKE69
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/27/13 04:01 PM
Tip of tooth to tip of tooth
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/27/13 05:11 PM
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Tip of tooth to tip of tooth
If I can remember I'll dig out a 130 tooth wheel tonight and measure it.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 383 starter size problem - 08/29/13 04:14 AM
Mike I have a Mcleod billet 6 bolt steel wheel , it measures roughly 13 5/16 across the teeth. I have yet to install it on anything so I can only ASSuME it's correct.
Posted By: MOPARMIKE69
Re: 383 starter size problem - 09/03/13 01:55 PM
Final results:
Club member has 70 dodge super bee 383 car with 4 speed. All original parts. Took flywheel, bell housing and starter to his house.
Flywheel exact match.
Bell housing - exact match, even the same date code.
Starter - exact match
So what gives???????
Dowel pins. Both looked like off sets. Pulled them, put in stock straight ones.
Got out the dial indicator. It is well within tolerance. Bolted up the flywheel and put the bell on. Starter fits!
BUT! there isn't an imput shaft bushing in the crank!
Ordered one.
Transmission was "rebuilt" BUT none of the seals were replaced.
So had it completely gone through by a local Mopar knowledgable shop.
So thanks to all who helped on this thread and special thanks to Wayne Brewer.
