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A 833 Problem
#1475217
07/28/13 12:01 PM
07/28/13 12:01 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 343
Pennsylvania
hemi67
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 343
Pennsylvania
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My A833 18 spline has about 800 miles since its rebuild and it is getting very difficult to shift into first at a stop, It is also grinding going into reverse. I can get about .070 between the disc and flywheel with the clutch pedal depressed. The upshifts when driving are smooth and problem free. Even the downshifts from 4th to 3rd, and 3rd to second are ok, but going into first is a problem. The pilot bushing was new when I installed the engine and trans. It has the stock Inland shifter. The Zbar, linkage and all related parts are new as well. I have 95w-140 gear oil in the trans. Anybody have any suggestions. I suspect a pilot bushing issue, but not sure. thanks 
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Re: A 833 Problem
[Re: DAYCLONA]
#1475221
07/28/13 05:01 PM
07/28/13 05:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,072
Niles , Ohio
therocks
oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
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oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,072
Niles , Ohio
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My 65 came with 90 weight factory.ATF was recommended only for cold cold weather driving.I never used it and the tranny is still working great.Factory manual calls for gear grease also.Like said check the clutch.I always adjust mine till it just goes into reverse.The one in now is at least 12 years old and is a Center Force dual friction.Rocky
Chrysler Firepower
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Re: A 833 Problem
[Re: Dougsmopars]
#1475222
07/28/13 06:39 PM
07/28/13 06:39 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,361
PA
70HemiGTX
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,361
PA
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Quote:
833 trans uses automatic tranny fluid not gear oil. That could be your problem .
I never had a problem with 90 wt. gear oil. In fact that is what Liberty said to use in my newly rebuilt trans. They said DO NOT USE AUTO TRANS FLUID. They must have their reasons.
Of all the 4 speeds I have had/driven, usually you need to adjust the clutch a little. That should take care of it. Maybe your clutch got a little oil or grease on it and is contaminated and therefore sticking to the pressure plate or flywheel.
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Re: A 833 Problem
[Re: DAYCLONA]
#1475223
07/28/13 08:06 PM
07/28/13 08:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,008
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,008
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
use of gear oil is not an issue IMHO
Might be the TYPE or gear oil used , if it's GL5 , that might be causing an issue ?
But I'm with you 10's of thousands of 833 work just fine with gear oil , I never use anything but gear oil.
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Re: A 833 Problem
[Re: hemi67]
#1475227
07/28/13 10:07 PM
07/28/13 10:07 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
DAYCLONA
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
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Quote:
Thanks to all for your assitance. I crawled under there today and tried to adjust the linkage to increase the air gap and was surprised to see that as I adjust it to increase air gap, the disc is hitting the fingers as I try to rotate it with my finger. Its coming apart this week to see whats going on in there. I suspect a problem with the pilot bushing or the clutch itself. I am not thrilled with this Mcleod borg and beck clutch at all. Very tempted to remove it and install a Center force !!! I have to believe that if the pressure plate is being pulled that far back away from the disc,and the disc is still not as free as it should be, then there is something wrong with either the disc and or pressure plate.
McLeod "stuff".....Hmmmmm some is remaned, the rest (new) outsourced overseas (SE.A) if you end up replacing it go SACHS or LUK for a quality replacement 
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Re: A 833 Problem
[Re: hemi67]
#1475230
07/29/13 11:39 AM
07/29/13 11:39 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,013
South Park, Pa.
68LAR
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,013
South Park, Pa.
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Quote:
My A833 18 spline has about 800 miles since its rebuild and it is getting very difficult to shift into first at a stop, It is also grinding going into reverse. I can get about .070 between the disc and flywheel with the clutch pedal depressed. The upshifts when driving are smooth and problem free. Even the downshifts from 4th to 3rd, and 3rd to second are ok, but going into first is a problem. The pilot bushing was new when I installed the engine and trans. It has the stock Inland shifter. The Zbar, linkage and all related parts are new as well. I have 95w-140 gear oil in the trans.
Anybody have any suggestions. I suspect a pilot bushing issue, but not sure.
Dump the gear oil. Manual transmissions need a GL4 oil. Gear oil as you're using is a GL5. I use Dexron auto trans fluid. If after changing the gear oil, try increasing the air gap a little more. Grinding going into reverse is concerning.
4 speed street legal. Best time 10.99 @ 124 mph on 93 octane pump gas @ 3926# total weight
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Re: A 833 Problem
[Re: 68LAR]
#1475231
07/29/13 11:58 AM
07/29/13 11:58 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,361
PA
70HemiGTX
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,361
PA
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I don't know about most of you, but I have driven my fair share of "older" sticks. From 1950's model trucks to new trucks and cars. The "older" transmissions are harder to get into 1st and reverse. Plus they usually do grind a little, especially reverse, there is no synchronizer there. Take your time when shifting into either gear. Just a second or two more. I always "clear" my shifter before going into either 1st or reverse. When I say "clear", I move the shifter (in the neutral position) from left to right and then back again or right, left, right. Just to take a little time to let the gears stop turning in the trans.
Remember that when you step on the clutch pedal, you disengage the clutch, but all the internals are still spinning at what ever RPM the engine was truning. That stuff has to slow down and stop turning also.
I had a 71 Challenger R/T with a 4 speed. That would grind every time I put it in reverse. Unless I sat for about 2-3 seconds and then tried to shift it into gear. And yes the clutch/pp were adjusted properly.
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Re: A 833 Problem
[Re: 70HemiGTX]
#1475232
07/29/13 12:05 PM
07/29/13 12:05 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,554
Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,554
Rittman Ohio
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Most of the time when you get a grind going into gear from a stop it's clutch or pilot bearing related.The grinding usually gets worse when the pilot gets hot with not enough grease on it. Gus 
64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
Dana 60
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Re: A 833 Problem
[Re: fourgearsavoy]
#1475233
07/29/13 01:52 PM
07/29/13 01:52 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
mickm
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
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i had exactly the same problem. got to the point where i could not get it into 1st at all if the car was still and the engine running.
69 and earlier bell housing, centerforce dual friction clutch. happened slowly over time. noticed it was a little hard to get into 1st once in a while, then gradually got worse until it wouldn't go in at all.
tried rebuilding the tranny, didn't help. finally found that the bell housing was not square with the engine block. had it machined square, and the problem went away. for a bout a year and a half, then started repeating the same pattern.
took the bell housing off, and it was out of square again. how? nothing i or anyone else could figure out. machined it again, no dice this time. the only thing we didn't replace was the clutch itself. maybe there were enough little things that added up to finally show an imperfection in the clutch itself, who knows?
when i put the new engine in, i went with a new bell housing and clutch assembly, and haven't seen the problem since. so it was somewhere in the bell housing and clutch, although the clutch showed no irregular wear at all, and is in very good (visual anyway) shape.
i would spend some time making sure the bell housing is square to the block and check the offset as well, both are critical.
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Re: A 833 Problem
[Re: mickm]
#1475234
07/29/13 01:57 PM
07/29/13 01:57 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,008
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,008
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
i had exactly the same problem. got to the point where i could not get it into 1st at all if the car was still and the engine running.
69 and earlier bell housing, centerforce dual friction clutch. happened slowly over time. noticed it was a little hard to get into 1st once in a while, then gradually got worse until it wouldn't go in at all.
tried rebuilding the tranny, didn't help. finally found that the bell housing was not square with the engine block. had it machined square, and the problem went away. for a bout a year and a half, then started repeating the same pattern.
took the bell housing off, and it was out of square again. how? nothing i or anyone else could figure out. machined it again, no dice this time. the only thing we didn't replace was the clutch itself. maybe there were enough little things that added up to finally show an imperfection in the clutch itself, who knows?
when i put the new engine in, i went with a new bell housing and clutch assembly, and haven't seen the problem since. so it was somewhere in the bell housing and clutch, although the clutch showed no irregular wear at all, and is in very good (visual anyway) shape.
i would spend some time making sure the bell housing is square to the block and check the offset as well, both are critical.
Mick you say the clutch was out of square, did you confirm it was square after it was machined or did you just ASSuME it was ? I had my 383 bellhousing flange machined , it was out by about .012 .
Also did check the runout ?
Not htta it matters now ... 
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Re: A 833 Problem
[Re: JohnRR]
#1475235
07/29/13 02:52 PM
07/29/13 02:52 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
mickm
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
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Quote:
Mick you say the clutch was out of square, did you confirm it was square after it was machined or did you just ASSuME it was ? I had my 383 bellhousing flange machined , it was out by about .012 .
Also did check the runout ?
Not htta it matters now ...
not the clutch, the bell housing. yes, after having it machined i put it back on the block, bolted it up tight and checked it again, and it was off about .002 top to bottom. very close. i don't remember the number on the runout, but it was well within spec.
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Re: A 833 Problem
[Re: mickm]
#1475236
07/29/13 03:07 PM
07/29/13 03:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,008
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,008
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
Quote:
Mick you say the clutch was out of square, did you confirm it was square after it was machined or did you just ASSuME it was ? I had my 383 bellhousing flange machined , it was out by about .012 .
Also did check the runout ?
Not htta it matters now ...
not the clutch, the bell housing. yes, after having it machined i put it back on the block, bolted it up tight and checked it again, and it was off about .002 top to bottom. very close. i don't remember the number on the runout, but it was well within spec.
I meant to type bellbousing ... need to proof read ... 
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