Re: " RACING BUSINESS" What does it mean?
[Re: DakFink]
#1470069
07/19/13 03:43 AM
07/19/13 03:43 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,445 So Cal
Sinitro
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So Cal
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Re: " RACING BUSINESS" What does it mean?
[Re: DakFink]
#1470071
07/20/13 09:45 AM
07/20/13 09:45 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,336 South-Central (Sebring), FL
Commando1
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,336
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Quote:
Not getting as many responses as I would have expected seeing as we have a few memebers here that post regularly that do have racing in their Businesses.
They just don't want to talk about how much money they pour into it lest their wives find out.
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Re: " RACING BUSINESS" What does it mean?
[Re: Quicktree]
#1470073
07/20/13 11:34 AM
07/20/13 11:34 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,010 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
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Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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It is a double edged sword fore sure. With the DOT on one side, and the IRS on the other. Flying "under the radar" so to speak would mean, don't put a signs on the trailer or tow vehicle, and to avoid audits, stay under $10,000 loss per year. I was advised this by a trusted CPA, that that is a threshold flag. Secondly, have a valid game plan for making money down the road at some point. You might consider a dual business,racing, related sales of some sort, or service.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: " RACING BUSINESS" What does it mean?
[Re: AndyF]
#1470075
07/20/13 07:30 PM
07/20/13 07:30 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,082 St. Paul , Mn.
tubtar
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Quote:
Not even sure what the question is. Are you asking about a business that sells race parts, or a business that races? Most professional race teams are supported by sponsors. It is pretty rare to find an actual business that supports itself with race winnings and no sponsors. I can't think of one but maybe there is some guy somewhere who wins a whole bunch without spending much money and that is all he does.
There was that guy at Fantasy island International Raceway. Many years ago when I first did this , I started a company .....registered with the state , tax number etc. etc. and went around talking to guys I knew who raced a lot to see how I could get some of that easy green into my pockets. With a bit of knowledge about advertising , I started to look at what I could offer in terms of exposure to a potential sponsor. Attendance at weekly bracket deals was roughly friends and family of the racers. The fans numbered in the hundreds and was not enough to generate any interest. Even the divisional events are sparsely attended. I forget the numbers , but I called Brainerd and got attendance figures. I put together a proposal and distributed it to related ( automotive )businesses , bars I frequented , stuff like that. I put the name of a local coffee shop on the rear quarters as a mutual favor with the owner......I got coffee and T shirts , he got limited exposure that never translated into more than a few cups of Joe sold. I did write off part of the cost of fielding the car and showed revenue from sale of used parts , travel expenses , entry fees etc. for two years and didn't want to push my luck. The class championship paid 500.00 the year we won. I had 2200.00 tied up in the rear end alone. 1985 dollars. Bottom line , unless you have a generous friend who owns a business or own one yourself , it will be difficult to generate any outside money to fund your fun. As to making money on a race car......I forget who said it , but the joke back then was if you wanted to wind up with a million dollars , buy a top fuel car and start with five million. The one thing I did right was never used the tax number.....I would have had to pay it at the end of the year and there is nothing I don't like more than cutting a check for the department of revenue.
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Re: " RACING BUSINESS" What does it mean?
[Re: tubtar]
#1470076
07/20/13 10:20 PM
07/20/13 10:20 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 506 Texas Afghanistan Iraq etc.
DakFink
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Well the article I read put a new perspective on the whole Race Business phrase.
In so many words it said racing is NOT the Business. Advertising is the Business and Racing is the Media used for that advertising.
(after reading that I looked at several cars and the sponsors on the side and was Like, what in the world does XYZ-Energy have to benefit from racing?)
It went on to say that the majority of Sponsors you see on race cars have no clue or could care less about racing and stats they are more worried about the Audience in the stands and the Person behind the wheel as a Face of their Product/Company.
That said, he even pointed out that many of the racers that he has helped were complaining about, the DOT, Licensing, Putting Advertisements on their Trailers and the extra Cost of insurance. He explained that is all part of the ADVERTISEMENT BUSINESS Package you need to sell to the Sponsor (who ever that may be) All those extras are small in comparison to the FINES if you get caught or the loss of the Sponsorship if they find you aren't representing them or a No Show because you got BUSTED. It's business expenses! make sure you work it into your Sponsorship Proposal.
The article posted that many of the best people the author has help with sponsorships were business owner's, because they treat racing as another business of it's own. And they already know how to run a business.
As we all know and the article stated NO ONE in any class is going to make a living, much less make a Business around the winnings. Even being #1 in the top classes the winnings don't even come close to covering the costs just to show up. (I'd look at those as Bonuses)
That pulled into my thoughts 1 person that stood out. Michael Waltrip sponsored by Napa. When was the last time he was in the Top-10 anywhere? But NAPA still sponsors him? WHY? Because he is well known, has a good personality and has a Good face for their product!!
So to me the Racing Business is an Advertisement Business that lets a person Race while working for a Sponsor.
The one thing the article did mention is expect to be turned down or be offered ridiculous packages, because not everyone wants or needs the exposure. Some that don't want it would surprise you.
BUT on the other hand their are those that you would never expect that would jump at it.
I know the Advertisement Plugs get annoying and sometimes OLD, with some racers. BUT Now I have a better understanding that THAT IS who pays the BILLS and allows them to be able to race for a living.
NOW I know some other Business owners use their Cars as a Tax write off and R&D platforms if their primary Business is a Race Supplier Company and that's another ball of worms but not what I was thinking of.
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Re: " RACING BUSINESS" What does it mean?
[Re: DakFink]
#1470077
07/20/13 11:19 PM
07/20/13 11:19 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,271 Overpriced Housing Central
RobX4406
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Quote:
That pulled into my thoughts 1 person that stood out. Michael Waltrip sponsored by Napa. When was the last time he was in the Top-10 anywhere? But NAPA still sponsors him? WHY? Because he is well known, has a good personality and has a Good face for their product!!
Well, he did place 4th and 5th at two of the plate races he ran this year. his 55 car with Mike, Mark Martin and Brian Vickers driving has done pretty well this year. Bowyer and Truex aren't slouches either
I raced motorcycles for a few years and lost LOTS of money doing it, wrote it off every year for 3 straight years, got an offer to ride for a team that was going to pay me. That was the magic bullet as I would have made money the fourth year. Got audited, won all years. If there is no "plan" or expectation to make a profit, you'll get your rear kicked in an examination.
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Re: " RACING BUSINESS" What does it mean?
[Re: DakFink]
#1470078
07/20/13 11:33 PM
07/20/13 11:33 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696 Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
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Quote:
Well the article I read put a new perspective on the whole Race Business phrase.
In so many words it said racing is NOT the Business. Advertising is the Business and Racing is the Media used for that advertising.
(after reading that I looked at several cars and the sponsors on the side and was Like, what in the world does XYZ-Energy have to benefit from racing?)
It went on to say that the majority of Sponsors you see on race cars have no clue or could care less about racing and stats they are more worried about the Audience in the stands and the Person behind the wheel as a Face of their Product/Company.
That said, he even pointed out that many of the racers that he has helped were complaining about, the DOT, Licensing, Putting Advertisements on their Trailers and the extra Cost of insurance. He explained that is all part of the ADVERTISEMENT BUSINESS Package you need to sell to the Sponsor (who ever that may be) All those extras are small in comparison to the FINES if you get caught or the loss of the Sponsorship if they find you aren't representing them or a No Show because you got BUSTED. It's business expenses! make sure you work it into your Sponsorship Proposal.
The article posted that many of the best people the author has help with sponsorships were business owner's, because they treat racing as another business of it's own. And they already know how to run a business.
As we all know and the article stated NO ONE in any class is going to make a living, much less make a Business around the winnings. Even being #1 in the top classes the winnings don't even come close to covering the costs just to show up. (I'd look at those as Bonuses)
That pulled into my thoughts 1 person that stood out. Michael Waltrip sponsored by Napa. When was the last time he was in the Top-10 anywhere? But NAPA still sponsors him? WHY? Because he is well known, has a good personality and has a Good face for their product!!
So to me the Racing Business is an Advertisement Business that lets a person Race while working for a Sponsor.
The one thing the article did mention is expect to be turned down or be offered ridiculous packages, because not everyone wants or needs the exposure. Some that don't want it would surprise you.
BUT on the other hand their are those that you would never expect that would jump at it.
I know the Advertisement Plugs get annoying and sometimes OLD, with some racers. BUT Now I have a better understanding that THAT IS who pays the BILLS and allows them to be able to race for a living.
NOW I know some other Business owners use their Cars as a Tax write off and R&D platforms if their primary Business is a Race Supplier Company and that's another ball of worms but not what I was thinking of.
Well I don't disagree with much of the above but: 1.I don't like "advertising" in general because its mainly repitition ala brain washing 2. Racing started out as a sport 3. The competition is the rush for me whether its soap box derby or F1 4. And if all advertisers pulled out tomorrow, somebody would still race, just have to leave their $1.5? mill coach at home 5. And rather then playing musical chairs with constant ever increasing DOT, etc restrictions and passing on the costs eventually to the fans, why don't they just get real and get the bureaucratic regulations changed. 6. I think the advertisers are smoking their own product.
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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