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Re: Oil pressure at WOT is scaring me!
[Re: mshred]
#1447765
06/05/13 06:24 PM
06/05/13 06:24 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
So the bypass valve is meant to open, and the pressure is supposed to stay at that maximum, but it does happen sometimes where the pressure will drop some when the spring is HOT? Reason I ask, I took the car for a quick drive today, but the temps were somewhat colder...didn't get to the same rpms, but I hit it off the 5500 stall on the converter and my pressure was a little above 60psi and there was no drop...so is it normal for the spring to be hot and drop some?
Yes... on the newer pumps it seems like the spring
isnt as good as they use to be.. its a lower pressure
and do tend to drop a couple pounds... I think its
more of the material the springs are made out of
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Re: Oil pressure at WOT is scaring me!
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1447766
06/05/13 10:17 PM
06/05/13 10:17 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
Leon441
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
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I would imagine the more oil is bypassed the hotter the spring gets. High pressure oil going through a passage heats up.
Everybody has been hammering you with this. A high volume pump is gonna tend to push more oil be the pressure relief valve. If I am right about the temperature reaching the spring. Then there you go.
I ran high volume pumps for years. Don't think you have a real issue. I would also think your Kevco Pan holds more than 5 quarts. I think you are probably pumping your pan low and loosing a little pressure.
Do you have the oil to the heads restricted at all? Depending on what rockers and cam you are running restricters may help. My engines ran grooved cam journals to oil the rockers all the time. Does your engine do this? If so there is a lot of oil going up top. Without restrictors you could theoretically be pumping your pan low.
Career best 8.02 @ 169 at 3050# and 10" tires small block power.
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Re: Oil pressure at WOT is scaring me!
[Re: hemi-itis]
#1447771
06/06/13 10:42 AM
06/06/13 10:42 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
I believe that when the bypass opens,you are bypassing the filter and NOT filtering the engine oil  
It does it right in the pump so no it doesnt see
the filter... its no big deal since it has to go to
the filter before it goes into the engine(bearings and so)
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Re: Oil pressure at WOT is scaring me!
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#1447773
06/06/13 01:07 PM
06/06/13 01:07 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I believe that when the bypass opens,you are bypassing the filter and NOT filtering the engine oil
It does it right in the pump so no it doesnt see
the filter... its no big deal since it has to go to
the filter before it goes into the engine(bearings and so)
So are you saying all the oil is being filtered by the Wix oil filter?
What I'm saying is any oil that goes into the bearings
has gone to the filter... if the filter plugs up it
does have a by-pass in the filter so if its a good
filter then it is being filtered.. if its plugged
up then it will by-pass
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Re: Oil pressure at WOT is scaring me!
[Re: cudadoug]
#1447776
06/06/13 02:02 PM
06/06/13 02:02 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,928
Canada
RobR
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,928
Canada
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Seems a tad low..my street engines in traffic at 190 degrees at idle run 25-30 lbs.. my first place to look would be the lifter bores..nobody ran a ball hone through the lifter bores did they?? your lifters themselves are they a solid body or barbell shaped ?? I've lost as much oil pressure as you are describing when I've used the non solid body roller lifters or solid lifters. 
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Re: Oil pressure at WOT is scaring me!
[Re: RobR]
#1447777
06/06/13 06:15 PM
06/06/13 06:15 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,415
Toronto
mshred
OP
master
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OP
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,415
Toronto
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Hey guys, I appreciate all the responses and input! My block has had all the oiling mods done to it that I know of (I followed Guitar Jones very informative post on forabodiesonly.com about this...here is the great post if anyone is interested http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=103623&page=2).... I do have an oil crossover tube in the lifter gallery, and I also drilled a bunch of 3/8 holes up there as well to help improve oil drain back. My lifter bores are stock, and have never had a hone down them EVER. I am running standard sealed power cam bearings with no groove, and full groove mains (Clevite .001” thinner series only came in full groove, although I prefer half groove mains). I am running Comp Cams standard flat tappet lifters- not sure if they are solid or barbell to be honest as I have no idea what differentiates the two styles. To be honest, I never poured my pan, and I should have...Brian at IMM mentioned for me to do this, and newbie me never really understood what that meant. So I do have my dipstick calibrated to the stock replacement 360 pan I had on this thing from the first motor I built. That said, Brian has told me on more than one occasion, and I do trust him, that it is very easy to overfill the Kevko pans (This is not the big road racing one, just the standard type they sell, I think 301 or 302 part number?). Last year I ran the 5 quarts, it showed full on my dipstick, and I never had any oil pressure or bearing problems. This year with 5 quarts and the remote filter the dipstick read low, so I added until it was full, which I attribute to the -10 lines and remote filter setup obviously. I wish I had actually poured this thing, but at this point I really won’t or don’t know what it holds, and the only thing I can try is as suggested pulling a quart of oil out and seeing what happens. As far as what the oil pan manufacturer says, I just looked now on their site, and it says 5 quarts in the pan, which if that is correct, then my dipstick is calibrated ok to the pan since it read full last year with 5 quarts in it (http://www.kevkoracing.com/mopar.htm). I would be curious to know what you guys with Kevko pans are running for oil amount. Was going to try dropping a quart out of it today, but its raining now and for tomorrow also. As for the oil pressure at idle...my idle does not get under 20psi until I am at about 230 degrees or hotter for oil temp...otherwise it is between 20-30psi depending on temperature. Maybe im over monitoring all of this, but I would rather ask questions and worry a little too much so I can save my junk instead of blowing it up and learning in silence lol. One thing that I did want to ask though- at idle, is it normal for pressure to jump around a 5psi window? Motor did that last night for a little bit, but driving it held pressure fine...shut car off for a couple of hours, drove it again for about 45 minutes, and it never did it again...It’s a brand new Auto Meter liquid filled gauge, so just wondering what the hell was going on there and if I should be alarmed or not?
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Re: Oil pressure at WOT is scaring me!
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1447778
06/06/13 06:18 PM
06/06/13 06:18 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,415
Toronto
mshred
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,415
Toronto
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Quote:
Quote:
So the bypass valve is meant to open, and the pressure is supposed to stay at that maximum, but it does happen sometimes where the pressure will drop some when the spring is HOT? Reason I ask, I took the car for a quick drive today, but the temps were somewhat colder...didn't get to the same rpms, but I hit it off the 5500 stall on the converter and my pressure was a little above 60psi and there was no drop...so is it normal for the spring to be hot and drop some?
Yes... on the newer pumps it seems like the spring
isnt as good as they use to be.. its a lower pressure
and do tend to drop a couple pounds... I think its
more of the material the springs are made out of
Ok, I am just looking to see if what I am seeing is normal or out of line, and based on the responses it seems like its not much of a concern, but something I should monitor, as well as a few things I am going to try to see what changes if at all.
I thought about installing the high pressure spring if the pan ever does come off again (Which I would rather leave on as I finally got it sealed without leaks after 4 times alone this season already), but if I don't need is the extra pressure not just creating extra heat and killing power some? Or does the extra pressure add a margin of safety at all? I do have the spring if I wanted to add it in the future. The motor is only going to be seeing 7000rpm TOPS (shifting at 6600-6700rpms).
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Re: Oil pressure at WOT is scaring me!
[Re: mikesiron]
#1447779
06/06/13 06:21 PM
06/06/13 06:21 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,415
Toronto
mshred
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,415
Toronto
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Quote:
I have used remote oil filter for years on my circle track car. #10 Lines,HV pump and Kevco pan with 9 qts total in the system. Full groved mains with .003 and .0025 on the rods. Engine never ran under 4500 with a max of 6500. After oil was hot 280deg or more It only had 45psi at WOT. Thought for sure she would blow but it never did and took me to a track championship. I will also say that when i put a heaver oil in it to bring up the oil preasure it also made the oil temp go over 300. So i went back to 5W30 OIL. Flow is what u need NOT PREASURE. When i took the engine apart at the end of the season didnt see anything wrong with the bearings.
Not to get off topic, but which Kevko pan were you running? and how long were your lines?
Also, at 280 degrees of oil temp, how long would it run for extended periods of time for? and what oil were you using? a cooler at all?
I only ask because I have a half filled block and oil temps are something I am also monitoring right now as well.
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Re: Oil pressure at WOT is scaring me!
[Re: mshred]
#1447781
06/06/13 06:59 PM
06/06/13 06:59 PM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,267
North, Alabama
D-50
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,267
North, Alabama
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I am running the Kevco oil pan that holds 5 quarts in my small block. I run a little over 5 quarts in it because of oil in filter. I run a stock non HV or HP oil pump.My lifter bores are bushed with small holes in them and oil the rockers through the push rods.I shift at 6800 but have shifted at 7000. So far no problems. I have probably made 150 1/8 mile passes since last Sept.
1.33 60 ft,6.21 at 110.59 in the 1/8, pump gas small block,2950lbs,drag radials,mufflers and driven to track ...
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Re: Oil pressure at WOT is scaring me!
[Re: mikesiron]
#1447782
06/06/13 07:33 PM
06/06/13 07:33 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,415
Toronto
mshred
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,415
Toronto
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Quote:
It was the stock location pan. The oil temp was taken at the bottom of the pan so the probe was submerged at all times. The fitting on the kevco pan is to high and will give you a false reading because its not submerged all the time. The lines were about 18-20in long. The filter (system one) was mounted right above the rt rear valve cover. ALWAYS used Mobil 1 10w30 and I added one bottle of zddp zink additve per 5qts. The oil temp would very deponding on track conditions dry slick track I could spin the tires at will and oil temp would always be low. But if the track was hooked up there was a lot more load on the engine and oil temp would be up over 280 deg for about 10-15 laps. We were not alowed to run oil cooler. Oil preasure is restance to flow. Heavy oil=less flow and more oil temp. Lite oil=more flow and cooler oil temp. I to had many oil system mods.
My temp probe is on a bung I welded in similar to the drain plug on the pan, but the other side of the pan, so mine is always submerged as well. That seems like a lot of oil for your setup if we are running the same pan, as my lines are 43" for each one (in/out) to the filter, and I am only running about 7qts.
How did your cam lobes look on that motor running the off the shelf synthetic stuff with the ZDDP? I really would like to run synthetic oil, but am worried about the life of my camshaft being it is a flat tappet.
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Re: Oil pressure at WOT is scaring me!
[Re: D-50]
#1447783
06/06/13 07:35 PM
06/06/13 07:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,266
Renton Washington
Triple Threat
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,266
Renton Washington
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I had the same Kevko pan, on my last motor, its still laying in the shop. I ran 6qts I believe, no external cooler. Any less than 6 and oil pressure would plummet after a run when on the brakes hard.
Even after It blew up the bearings showed no signs of starvation.
-Dustin
67 Dart, 9 second, 392" G3 Hemi
68 Barracuda 340 F/SA
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mike
The race oil filters where 15 lbs to bypass 
The GM type oil filters have nobuilt in internal by pass system or valves 
I'm not ure about the race type HP6 filters, I cut one apart and I can't remember if it had a internal bypass or not 
