things i found in the old engine
#1447617
06/04/13 05:15 PM
06/04/13 05:15 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
mickm
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just took the 472 that was in the car apart. have a few other threads about specific issues, but these are some things i found:
- repop hemi oil pan. rear baffle broke loose on one side, and was hanging down into the pan.
- oil pickup was slightly loose, should have given it one more turn.
- when i redid the heads last time, the running temp of the engine increased by 15-20 degrees, more under very hot conditions. couldn't figure out why. the cometic head gaskets had the bottom 3 water passage holes sealed. got me?
- despite my best efforts and a second try, was still sucking oil at the intake. on both heads, the 2 middle passages were sealed fine, the two outer passages had the exact same areas where the sealer didn't seem to take. going to see if the decks are twisted when the machinist goes to deck them.
- overall, machinist said there was nothing of concern with the rings, bearings and wear.
- guy who the built engine originally used low tension oil rings.
- almost all the lifters are flat or concave. was using VR1 20-50 oil, guess it wan't enough.
- pistons have .001-.002 too much clearance, have to decide f i want to use them or get new ones and bore.
so, nothing major, except sucking all the oil, and being sure i had it sealed correctly, and the cam. live and learn, i guess.
Last edited by mickm; 06/04/13 06:44 PM.
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Re: things i found in the old engine
[Re: mickm]
#1447618
06/04/13 05:26 PM
06/04/13 05:26 PM
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 462
Stockholm, Sweden
fed
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 462
Stockholm, Sweden
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Hone it and get custompistons.
No need to bore it. Custompistons are not expensive.
Cuda, -70
Valiant-65 AWB,
Valiant Signet200 -65 Topchopped dragcar.
Topolino Fuel Altered.
NostalgiaFED Sold,
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Re: things i found in the old engine
[Re: Pacnorthcuda]
#1447620
06/04/13 06:46 PM
06/04/13 06:46 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
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California
mickm
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Quote:
Interesting comment on the oil and lifters, but did you mean concave? The lifters are supposed to be convex. How did the finish on the cam look?
yes, i meant concave, and edited the post.
cam looks ok, but i doubt i'm going to use it. why take the chance? i will spend a little time measuring the lobes and see if intakes/exhaust lobes vary, and go from there.
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Re: things i found in the old engine
[Re: mickm]
#1447621
06/04/13 07:54 PM
06/04/13 07:54 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Master
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Romeo MI
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.001 -.002 isnt much... but if the bores look good and you want to tighten up the pistons you can have them coated which makes the piston larger and it helps on wear.. I had mine done .003 larger... a place local to me does a very nice job(Dart Heads) and they do all the pro stuff also including the race boat boys 
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Re: things i found in the old engine
[Re: mickm]
#1447624
06/05/13 12:21 PM
06/05/13 12:21 PM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 452
Monrovia, So-Cal, USA
racerhog
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 452
Monrovia, So-Cal, USA
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Reweld the baffel and test fit... Bigger pick up tube... Black Pipe Dope for the pick-up tube... Square up the intake to heads.. Run a good thick gasket. I'm in for the coating of the pistons!!!  I say Roller cam it.... As for the Engine oil... Lucus or Amsoil or Mobil 1... And Run the Keith Black oil Pump... Just My 2 cents Bob
Last edited by racerhog; 06/05/13 12:24 PM.
Bob(Cowboy)Hogan
Monrovia So-Cal
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Re: things i found in the old engine
[Re: JohnRR]
#1447625
06/05/13 03:43 PM
06/05/13 03:43 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
mickm
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Quote:
Well that's not good to hear this about VR1 since I've been starting to stock up on it. I thought it was supposed to have high zinc content ?
i have heard this as well. in fact, there is a post on here that shows it is well within range.
this is one i'll never be able to corroborate though, this could have been mine. when i first put the engine back together, it seemed that the oil consumption was taken care of. i did a 300 mile round trip in the car, and didn't think to check the oil level, as till then it looked ok. after the trip, one day i had the car out and ran it through the gears to 6k, and saw a momentary loss of pressure when i hit third. checked the oil and it was very low, so somewhere in the 300 mile trip the intake seal was lost.
so there is no way i can blame this on the oil itself, as it might well have been this.
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Re: things i found in the old engine
[Re: racerhog]
#1447626
06/05/13 03:43 PM
06/05/13 03:43 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
mickm
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Quote:
Reweld the baffel and test fit...
Bigger pick up tube...
Black Pipe Dope for the pick-up tube...
Square up the intake to heads.. Run a good thick gasket.
I'm in for the coating of the pistons!!!
I say Roller cam it....
As for the Engine oil... Lucus or Amsoil or Mobil 1... And Run the Keith Black oil Pump...
Just My 2 cents
Bob
 on all of these, except maybe the roller!
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Re: things i found in the old engine
[Re: ZIPPY]
#1447628
06/05/13 04:24 PM
06/05/13 04:24 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
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California
mickm
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Quote:
In your opinion, could the oil level have been low enough to cause the lifter issue? By your description I find it real easy to point towards that, but am at a disadvantage not being able to see anything....
it's hard to say. obviously i panicked in the moment  , but that was a good 4-5 thousand miles ago. there were no immediate symptoms: no knocking, loss of performance, anything like that.
the machinist said all the bearings, pistons and cylinder walls looked good when we tore it apart yesterday, so nothing unusual there.
but i know how dependent the lifters are on that constant supply of oil, so a momentary loss may have been enough to start that wear.
the cam lobes all look ok from an initial inspection, but i haven't checked them yet.
it is just very strange that all the lobes but 2 seem worn concave or flat.
i have been seen many sources that say VR1 is well within the range of zinc and the other additives for a flat tappet cam, but have also heard a few sources say it's not.
i think mine is an issue that will never be solved! but overall, i would say yes, it was a factor.
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Re: things i found in the old engine
[Re: mickm]
#1447629
06/05/13 04:45 PM
06/05/13 04:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,095
A Banana Republic near you.
JohnRR
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I Win
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A Banana Republic near you.
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Quote:
i think mine is an issue that will never be solved! but overall, i would say yes, it was a factor.
What block do you have ? The lifter bore angle on my Cummins recon built 426 of feb 2005 was off, also the deck is higher than 10.725.
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Re: things i found in the old engine
[Re: JohnRR]
#1447630
06/05/13 04:51 PM
06/05/13 04:51 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
mickm
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OP
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Quote:
Quote:
i think mine is an issue that will never be solved! but overall, i would say yes, it was a factor.
What block do you have ? The lifter bore angle on my Cummins recon built 426 of feb 2005 was off, also the deck is higher than 10.725.
i have a mopar water block, pre world. how do i check the lifter bore angle?
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Re: things i found in the old engine
[Re: mickm]
#1447632
06/05/13 05:28 PM
06/05/13 05:28 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,095
A Banana Republic near you.
JohnRR
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I Win
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A Banana Republic near you.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
i think mine is an issue that will never be solved! but overall, i would say yes, it was a factor.
What block do you have ? The lifter bore angle on my Cummins recon built 426 of feb 2005 was off, also the deck is higher than 10.725.
i have a mopar water block, pre world. how do i check the lifter bore angle?
Not really sure short of setting it up in a BHJ fixture or on a CNC like a rottler.
My block is an MP, not world, Siamese .
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Re: things i found in the old engine
[Re: Paul_Fancsali]
#1447633
06/05/13 06:48 PM
06/05/13 06:48 PM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 30
NW Indiana
WeeWillie
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NW Indiana
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Quote:
After checking the deck use Indian head gasket shellac on it works every time for me, but a real pain to clean up
It does do the job. Had a small block chevy I put together once with cheap "paper" head gaskets, went to remove the heads later for a refresh and had to use a 4 foot bar wedged into the lifter valley to pry them off. The seal never broke the gasket literally split in half, leaving half on the heads and the other on the block.
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Re: things i found in the old engine
[Re: fed]
#1447635
06/07/13 10:25 PM
06/07/13 10:25 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,131
New Lenox IL
cudadon
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,131
New Lenox IL
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Quote:
Hone it and get custompistons.
No need to bore it. Custompistons are not expensive.
Or you can have the skirts coated, that can take up .001-.002 cheaper and less friction. 
Don
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