|
Viper 6-speed in a 68-70 B-body?
#1438054
05/17/13 08:38 PM
05/17/13 08:38 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,437
Omaha Nebraska
Brian_wo
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,437
Omaha Nebraska
|
I believe thats a T56,has anybody done it here or know anybody that has?
Next weekend looks to be my back to the future moment and the wheels are turning,the way I hear it the 2010 has the best OD gearing,I may be one hunt for one soon if its not to bad of a swap.
who is that guy?
|
|
|
Re: Viper 6-speed in a 68-70 B-body?
[Re: topside]
#1438056
05/18/13 09:27 AM
05/18/13 09:27 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,437
Omaha Nebraska
Brian_wo
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,437
Omaha Nebraska
|
Ugh
Dont know if I like that but then switch to an AlterKation and the torsion bars are not needed.
Nobody has seen a car thats had this swap?
who is that guy?
|
|
|
Re: Viper 6-speed in a 68-70 B-body?
[Re: DAYCLONA]
#1438060
05/18/13 09:58 AM
05/18/13 09:58 AM
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 90
kansas city missouri
moparstuart
member
|
member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 90
kansas city missouri
|
Mike with the 5 speed its easy , but with the six speed there is no way to keep the tunnel and torsion bar cross member complete .
I was scared at first to cut the floor but that worked out pretty easy compared to other problems i had , bottom line it would be nice if someone had a kit like the 5 speed that was proven as opposed to putting stuff together on your own from several different suppiers .
Last edited by moparstuart; 05/18/13 09:59 AM.
|
|
|
Re: Viper 6-speed in a 68-70 B-body?
[Re: moparstuart]
#1438061
05/18/13 10:02 AM
05/18/13 10:02 AM
|
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
Too Many Posts
|
Too Many Posts
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
|
pretty sure they all have the same gear ratios, but the later versions out of the gen 3 cars have a one piece counter shaft which is supposedly stronger than the 2 piece shaft often found in the earlier Borg/Warner build boxes (tremec makes them now)
5th and 6th gears are OD, with 6th gear being a .5:1 OD
I just did this swap in my Dakota. all I needed was a quicktime bell, 130 tooth flywheel/clutch, and shorten the driveshaft 1".
I modified the original T-56 trans mount and the original trans mount out of my Dakota so they would work together, and it drops right in to my original transmission cross member with no mods to the cross member at all, and I adapted the Viper hydraulic TO bearing to fit the Dakota master cylinder that was originally in the truck.
Overall, it was a very simple, drop in swap in my truck. However, my truck has a trans tunnel big enough to accommodate a 46RE automatic, which is a big trans. (my truck was originally an NV3500 stick shift though)
fitting the transmission to the engine is easy, but you'll have to figure out tunnel/crossmember mods as those will be specific to your car.
**Photobucket sucks**
|
|
|
Re: Viper 6-speed in a 68-70 B-body?
[Re: moparstuart]
#1438062
05/18/13 11:57 AM
05/18/13 11:57 AM
|
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
DAYCLONA
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
|
Quote:
Mike with the 5 speed its easy , but with the six speed there is no way to keep the tunnel and torsion bar cross member complete .
Stuart, I know the 5 spd is easy, done plenty of those, keeping the torsion bars is doable, like I said just a matter of one's skill sets in engineering out the problem, as far as the floor, best to remove the tunnel altogether, and fabricate what's needed.... 
For some details, and a 3 part video install,... go to YouTube and look for "T56 install on a 68 B body Mopar" by Kens68Charger, he retains the factory T bars, most of the factory floor, factory console, etc, etc on an American Power Train (APT) T56 install on a 68 Charger
Mike
|
|
|
Re: Viper 6-speed in a 68-70 B-body?
[Re: moparstuart]
#1438063
05/18/13 02:25 PM
05/18/13 02:25 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,437
Omaha Nebraska
Brian_wo
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,437
Omaha Nebraska
|
Awsome,thanks for the links and search tips,this puts me in the right direction.
As far as them all having the same gear ratio I was talking to the main Viper guy from Baxter and told him that after our Challenger was paid off that we would be in the market for a 2008-2010 snakeskin green Viper,he suggested the 2010 because on the 08 and 09 models there was little difference between 5th and 6th gear but they changed that in 2010 and I guess they have far less complaints,he did mention that if we ended up with an 08 or 09 that we could just swap out 5th and 6th gears.
Its good to know the later ones are stronger,had no clue on that.
Thanks to all.
who is that guy?
|
|
|
Re: Viper 6-speed in a 68-70 B-body?
[Re: Brian_wo]
#1438064
05/18/13 06:23 PM
05/18/13 06:23 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
Too Many Posts
|
Too Many Posts
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
|
pretty sure 6th gear has never changed on the Vipers, and has always been a .5:1 ratio if they DID change anything, it was the 5th gear, but I didn't think the 2 gears were "too close" in ratio, and felt they were about perfect. 4th is 1:1, 5th is .74:1 and 6th is .50:1 Just looked up online, and the new 2013 models DO have different gear ratios...5th is now .77:1 and 6th is now .63:1 This change MAY be due to the problems they were having with the super "deep" gearing of the .50:1 6th gear. the OD was so deep that the engine RPM would lug way down when shifted into 6th. This resulted in a lot of strain on the gears and would cause issues between the splines on the main shaft and the gears, which would then cause excessive noise when in the OD gears because of how the gear mesh changed.  notice the splines--one half is used by the 5th6th gear cluster, the other is used by the reverse syncro.
**Photobucket sucks**
|
|
|
Re: Viper 6-speed in a 68-70 B-body?
[Re: DAYCLONA]
#1438065
05/18/13 06:47 PM
05/18/13 06:47 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 90
kansas city missouri
moparstuart
member
|
member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 90
kansas city missouri
|
Quote:
Quote:
Mike with the 5 speed its easy , but with the six speed there is no way to keep the tunnel and torsion bar cross member complete .
Stuart, I know the 5 spd is easy, done plenty of those, keeping the torsion bars is doable, like I said just a matter of one's skill sets in engineering out the problem, as far as the floor, best to remove the tunnel altogether, and fabricate what's needed....
For some details, and a 3 part video install,... go to YouTube and look for "T56 install on a 68 B body Mopar" by Kens68Charger, he retains the factory T bars, most of the factory floor, factory console, etc, etc on an American Power Train (APT) T56 install on a 68 Charger
Mike
yes i agree you can keep the torsion bars but you can not keep the center section of the crossmemebr , you have to fabricate new ,the transmission is simply to large
Last edited by moparstuart; 05/19/13 12:17 AM.
|
|
|
Re: Viper 6-speed in a 68-70 B-body?
[Re: Brian_wo]
#1438067
05/18/13 09:21 PM
05/18/13 09:21 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,995
Oregon
AndyF
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,995
Oregon
|
Quote:
I believe thats a T56,has anybody done it here or know anybody that has?
Next weekend looks to be my back to the future moment and the wheels are turning,the way I hear it the 2010 has the best OD gearing,I may be one hunt for one soon if its not to bad of a swap.
I have some pictures in the B-body book that I wrote. It takes a lot of work to swap one of those transmissions into a Mopar. There are some vendors out there who make some parts so you don't have to build it all yourself.
|
|
|
Re: Viper 6-speed in a 68-70 B-body?
[Re: AndyF]
#1438068
05/18/13 10:53 PM
05/18/13 10:53 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,437
Omaha Nebraska
Brian_wo
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,437
Omaha Nebraska
|
Funny,i bought your book because it was you but I have yet to look at it  Guess I better open it up .
who is that guy?
|
|
|
Re: Viper 6-speed in a 68-70 B-body?
[Re: Brian_wo]
#1438072
05/19/13 08:46 PM
05/19/13 08:46 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 299
East Brunswick, NJ
finadk
enthusiast
|
enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 299
East Brunswick, NJ
|
If you have not already found a T56 you should consider just buying a BRAND NEW T-56 Magnum. I looked at GM Spec T-56 from Camaros as well as Viper transmissions. The Viper trans was always expensive. I was looking at $800 to $1200 plus another $1200 or so in parts and labor to upgrade an rebuild. You can get a new T-56 Magnum with a choice of gearing for about $2900, not much more then buying and rebuilding a used one. (maybe less in some cases.)
I have a lot of info on this swap on a small block MOPAR (im putting a 408 Stroker into a 56 Dodge) but can't help much on the torsion bar/cross member issues you are facing with a B-Body. I even have an unused Quicktime LA Small Block to T56 bell-housing left over.
One more lesson learned, I was able to buy a COMPLETE kit from American Powertrain for about the same price as sourcing all the parts myself. So shop carefully, do your research and decide what is the best route for you. American Powertrain's customer support is beyond excellent and I was able to get support at odd hours.
If you go down this road consider the Ford spec T-56 instead of the GM spec. The Ford input shaft is about 1" shorter than the GM so the bell housing will be shorter and the shifter not as far back in the car when it is done.
Good Luck
Scott
Scott
1956 Dodge Custom Royal Lancer (408 Stroker, 4 Wheel Disc Brakes, Rack & Pinion, 6 speed)
2002 Dodge Ram 1500 Quad Cab
1976 Corvette
|
|
|
|
|
and 
Do you have the skills, tools and time? and forget about using the factory console....