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no oil flow to rocker shafts #1432012 05/07/13 10:35 PM 05/07/13 10:35 PM
Joined: Feb 2012 Posts: 110 S.E. WI A allmopar OP member
allmopar OP member A Joined: Feb 2012 Posts: 110 S.E. WI	Maybe someone can shed some light on my problem and help me figure out what I messed up. I did a complete rebuild on a 440 and added edelbrock heads, comp solid lifter cam, harland sharp rockers, etc. I was finally ready for the first fire-up and cam break in this last weekend. I primed the oil pump with a drill and the guage showed good pressure. When I started the motor, The oil pressure was about 70/80 psi. After about a minute the valvetrain started to get noisy so I shut it down. Pulled a valve cover and it is pretty dry except for the break in grease. I pulled off the rocker shaft and ran the oil pump with the drill again and absolutely no oil is comming out of any of the pedestals that feed oil to the shafts. I took out the oil plug on the top of the block in the rear where the oil pressure guage hookes up and oil shoots out of there really good. Any ideas ? I cannot remember if the Edelbrock rpm heads have only one oil passage hole in the head and I have the heads on the wrong sides ? I really don't think the cam bearing is off location. Should oil flow to the rockers at all times ? The engine is at TDC right now when I am running the pump with the drill .

Re: no oil flow to rocker shafts [Re: allmopar] #1432013 05/07/13 10:42 PM 05/07/13 10:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,875 communist bloc of new jersey J jamesc master
jamesc master J Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,875 communist bloc of new jersey	with a stock system there is only flow to the rocker gear when the holes in the cam line up with those in the bearings. this is why the fourth cam journal is often grooved and orifices installed. this provides continuous oil to the rockers. you should run the primer while slowly turning the engine over. at some point oil should be coming up the heads, if not there's something blocking the passages. i don't know of any heads that oil through the head that don't have passages at both ends and the edelbrock heads have them at both ends. whatever it is get it fixed before you damage parts.

Re: no oil flow to rocker shafts [Re: allmopar] #1432014 05/07/13 10:43 PM 05/07/13 10:43 PM
Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 5,112 Western Md. skicker "The Champ"
skicker "The Champ" Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 5,112 Western Md.	I know when I primed my 340 I had to turn the motor over slowly while running the drill to get oil to each rocker. I found out that it won't get oil to all the rockers without turning the motor over at the same time. If yours was running and had none... ...FAFO...

Re: no oil flow to rocker shafts [Re: skicker] #1432015 05/07/13 10:53 PM 05/07/13 10:53 PM
Joined: Jun 2004 Posts: 6,780 Alabama Mopar-Al master
Mopar-Al master Joined: Jun 2004 Posts: 6,780 Alabama	spun cam bearing or installed in the wrong position?

Re: no oil flow to rocker shafts [Re: allmopar] #1432016 05/07/13 10:53 PM 05/07/13 10:53 PM
Joined: Dec 2010 Posts: 1,035 Missouri U.S.A. 7 71yelladustr super stock
71yelladustr super stock 7 Joined: Dec 2010 Posts: 1,035 Missouri U.S.A.	The rockers will not oil all of the time. They only oil when the hole in the #4 cam journal lines up with the passage drilled in the cam to the hole in cam bearing from the mains. Although some aftermarket cams are grooved for full-time oiling. Have someone turn the motor over very slowly while operating the drill to see if you are getting oil up top. Eddy heads are drilled to work on both sides. If still no oil, either your cam bearing is in wrong or you got a restriction in your oil passage to the rockers. Could be the head gasket, rocker shaft, or something else. 392 gen III hemi on E-85 727 trans Dana 60 10.02@134

Re: no oil flow to rocker shafts [Re: allmopar] #1432017 05/07/13 10:53 PM 05/07/13 10:53 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,307 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,307 Bend,OR USA	Quote: Maybe someone can shed some light on my problem and help me figure out what I messed up. I did a complete rebuild on a 440 and added edelbrock heads, comp solid lifter cam, harland sharp rockers, etc. I was finally ready for the first fire-up and cam break in this last weekend. I primed the oil pump with a drill and the guage showed good pressure. When I started the motor, The oil pressure was about 70/80 psi. After about a minute the valvetrain started to get noisy so I shut it down. Pulled a valve cover and it is pretty dry except for the break in grease. I pulled off the rocker shaft and ran the oil pump with the drill again and absolutely no oil is comming out of any of the pedestals that feed oil to the shafts. I took out the oil plug on the top of the block in the rear where the oil pressure guage hookes up and oil shoots out of there really good. Any ideas ? I cannot remember if the Edelbrock rpm heads have only one oil passage hole in the head and I have the heads on the wrong sides ? I really don't think the cam bearing is off location. Should oil flow to the rockers at all times ? The engine is at TDC right now when I am running the pump with the drill . If you didn't install new cam bearings and the old cam was working properly oiling the rocker shafts and the NEW cam is drilled properly you should be able to rotate the motor over clockwise very slowly while priming the oil pump and come to the position where the cam oil hole lines up with the hole in the number 4 main bearing hole and the hole in the cam that feeds oil through it into the oil passage in the block to oil the rocker shafts, turn it very slowly and be patient The cam will oil for about 5 degrees of crankshaft travel so turn it over very slowly and watch closely with the shafts on, if you want to try priming it with the shafts off be prepare to see oil shoot out of the oil feed holes in the heads as soon as the holes start to line up. If you do it that way it will oil only one shaft at a time, not both in the same position at the same time You can do it that way and then put the shafts on and rock the crank back and forth while priming the oil pump to help lube the shafts and rockers If you do that do both sides the same way and amount of time. BTW, you can have the #4 cam journal groove all the way around so it will oil the rockers full time, I do that now on all my motors Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: no oil flow to rocker shafts [Re: Cab_Burge] #1432018 05/07/13 11:18 PM 05/07/13 11:18 PM
Joined: Feb 2012 Posts: 110 S.E. WI A allmopar OP member
allmopar OP member A Joined: Feb 2012 Posts: 110 S.E. WI	Thanks for the tips, I forgot to mention that I used Fel pro blue head gaskets. Could they be backwards ? I am going to crank it over by hand slowly while running the drill and watch for oil but I did not find any oil in the rocker shafts when I took both of them off. Yes the cam bearings are new and I thought I checked the oil passages to make sure they lined up before I put the cam in. It is getting late so I will dig into it tomorrow some more.

Re: no oil flow to rocker shafts [Re: allmopar] #1432019 05/07/13 11:23 PM 05/07/13 11:23 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Quote: Maybe someone can shed some light on my problem and help me figure out what I messed up. I did a complete rebuild on a 440 and added edelbrock heads, comp solid lifter cam, harland sharp rockers, etc. I was finally ready for the first fire-up and cam break in this last weekend. I primed the oil pump with a drill and the guage showed good pressure. When I started the motor, The oil pressure was about 70/80 psi. After about a minute the valvetrain started to get noisy so I shut it down. Pulled a valve cover and it is pretty dry except for the break in grease. I pulled off the rocker shaft and ran the oil pump with the drill again and absolutely no oil is comming out of any of the pedestals that feed oil to the shafts. I took out the oil plug on the top of the block in the rear where the oil pressure guage hookes up and oil shoots out of there really good. Any ideas ? I cannot remember if the Edelbrock rpm heads have only one oil passage hole in the head and I have the heads on the wrong sides ? I really don't think the cam bearing is off location. Should oil flow to the rockers at all times ? The engine is at TDC right now when I am running the pump with the drill . With what your saying you changed heads, cam and rockers... it would be cam bearings or the cam wasnt made properly(no oil holes) or by chance the gasket doesnt have the hole... sounds like you will be pulling it back apart..... bummer... but you should have primed it while it was on the stand and caught this

Re: no oil flow to rocker shafts [Re: Cab_Burge] #1432020 05/07/13 11:26 PM 05/07/13 11:26 PM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 20,203 PA. pittsburghracer "Little"John
pittsburghracer "Little"John Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 20,203 PA.	Quote: Quote: Maybe someone can shed some light on my problem and help me figure out what I messed up. I did a complete rebuild on a 440 and added edelbrock heads, comp solid lifter cam, harland sharp rockers, etc. I was finally ready for the first fire-up and cam break in this last weekend. I primed the oil pump with a drill and the guage showed good pressure. When I started the motor, The oil pressure was about 70/80 psi. After about a minute the valvetrain started to get noisy so I shut it down. Pulled a valve cover and it is pretty dry except for the break in grease. I pulled off the rocker shaft and ran the oil pump with the drill again and absolutely no oil is comming out of any of the pedestals that feed oil to the shafts. I took out the oil plug on the top of the block in the rear where the oil pressure guage hookes up and oil shoots out of there really good. Any ideas ? I cannot remember if the Edelbrock rpm heads have only one oil passage hole in the head and I have the heads on the wrong sides ? I really don't think the cam bearing is off location. Should oil flow to the rockers at all times ? The engine is at TDC right now when I am running the pump with the drill . If you didn't install new cam bearings and the old cam was working properly oiling the rocker shafts and the NEW cam is drilled properly you should be able to rotate the motor over clockwise very slowly while priming the oil pump and come to the position where the cam oil hole lines up with the hole in the number 4 main bearing hole and the hole in the cam that feeds oil through it into the oil passage in the block to oil the rocker shafts, turn it very slowly and be patient The cam will oil for about 5 degrees of crankshaft travel so turn it over very slowly and watch closely with the shafts on, if you want to try priming it with the shafts off be prepare to see oil shoot out of the oil feed holes in the heads as soon as the holes start to line up. If you do it that way it will oil only one shaft at a time, not both in the same position at the same time You can do it that way and then put the shafts on and rock the crank back and forth while priming the oil pump to help lube the shafts and rockers If you do that do both sides the same way and amount of time. BTW, you can have the #4 cam journal groove all the way around so it will oil the rockers full time, I do that now on all my motors #2 and #4 both need grooved. 1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27 Livin and lovin life one day at a time

Re: no oil flow to rocker shafts [Re: pittsburghracer] #1432021 05/07/13 11:51 PM 05/07/13 11:51 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,307 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,307 Bend,OR USA	Quote: Quote: Quote: Maybe someone can shed some light on my problem and help me figure out what I messed up. I did a complete rebuild on a 440 and added edelbrock heads, comp solid lifter cam, harland sharp rockers, etc. I was finally ready for the first fire-up and cam break in this last weekend. I primed the oil pump with a drill and the guage showed good pressure. When I started the motor, The oil pressure was about 70/80 psi. After about a minute the valvetrain started to get noisy so I shut it down. Pulled a valve cover and it is pretty dry except for the break in grease. I pulled off the rocker shaft and ran the oil pump with the drill again and absolutely no oil is comming out of any of the pedestals that feed oil to the shafts. I took out the oil plug on the top of the block in the rear where the oil pressure guage hookes up and oil shoots out of there really good. Any ideas ? I cannot remember if the Edelbrock rpm heads have only one oil passage hole in the head and I have the heads on the wrong sides ? I really don't think the cam bearing is off location. Should oil flow to the rockers at all times ? The engine is at TDC right now when I am running the pump with the drill . If you didn't install new cam bearings and the old cam was working properly oiling the rocker shafts and the NEW cam is drilled properly you should be able to rotate the motor over clockwise very slowly while priming the oil pump and come to the position where the cam oil hole lines up with the hole in the number 4 main bearing hole and the hole in the cam that feeds oil through it into the oil passage in the block to oil the rocker shafts, turn it very slowly and be patient The cam will oil for about 5 degrees of crankshaft travel so turn it over very slowly and watch closely with the shafts on, if you want to try priming it with the shafts off be prepare to see oil shoot out of the oil feed holes in the heads as soon as the holes start to line up. If you do it that way it will oil only one shaft at a time, not both in the same position at the same time You can do it that way and then put the shafts on and rock the crank back and forth while priming the oil pump to help lube the shafts and rockers If you do that do both sides the same way and amount of time. BTW, you can have the #4 cam journal groove all the way around so it will oil the rockers full time, I do that now on all my motors #2 and #4 both need grooved. Only on SB Mopars, normal motors only need it on #4 Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: no oil flow to rocker shafts [Re: Cab_Burge] #1432022 05/08/13 12:01 AM 05/08/13 12:01 AM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 20,203 PA. pittsburghracer "Little"John
pittsburghracer "Little"John Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 20,203 PA.	Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Maybe someone can shed some light on my problem and help me figure out what I messed up. I did a complete rebuild on a 440 and added edelbrock heads, comp solid lifter cam, harland sharp rockers, etc. I was finally ready for the first fire-up and cam break in this last weekend. I primed the oil pump with a drill and the guage showed good pressure. When I started the motor, The oil pressure was about 70/80 psi. After about a minute the valvetrain started to get noisy so I shut it down. Pulled a valve cover and it is pretty dry except for the break in grease. I pulled off the rocker shaft and ran the oil pump with the drill again and absolutely no oil is comming out of any of the pedestals that feed oil to the shafts. I took out the oil plug on the top of the block in the rear where the oil pressure guage hookes up and oil shoots out of there really good. Any ideas ? I cannot remember if the Edelbrock rpm heads have only one oil passage hole in the head and I have the heads on the wrong sides ? I really don't think the cam bearing is off location. Should oil flow to the rockers at all times ? The engine is at TDC right now when I am running the pump with the drill . If you didn't install new cam bearings and the old cam was working properly oiling the rocker shafts and the NEW cam is drilled properly you should be able to rotate the motor over clockwise very slowly while priming the oil pump and come to the position where the cam oil hole lines up with the hole in the number 4 main bearing hole and the hole in the cam that feeds oil through it into the oil passage in the block to oil the rocker shafts, turn it very slowly and be patient The cam will oil for about 5 degrees of crankshaft travel so turn it over very slowly and watch closely with the shafts on, if you want to try priming it with the shafts off be prepare to see oil shoot out of the oil feed holes in the heads as soon as the holes start to line up. If you do it that way it will oil only one shaft at a time, not both in the same position at the same time You can do it that way and then put the shafts on and rock the crank back and forth while priming the oil pump to help lube the shafts and rockers If you do that do both sides the same way and amount of time. BTW, you can have the #4 cam journal groove all the way around so it will oil the rockers full time, I do that now on all my motors #2 and #4 both need grooved. Only on SB Mopars, normal motors only need it on #4 Ya thinking small block again. I will reread this post tomorrow as its been a long day but when I saw this I was thinking about one of our members that found the oiling hole up thru the head not drilled completely thru. this too was a small block and I checked a new set of mine and they were the same way. 1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27 Livin and lovin life one day at a time

Re: no oil flow to rocker shafts [Re: Cab_Burge] #1432023 05/08/13 12:04 AM 05/08/13 12:04 AM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	#2 and #4 both need grooved. Only on SB Mopars, normal motors only need it on #4 So on a BB it has 2 oil holes in each head so you can you can flip them side to side

Re: no oil flow to rocker shafts [Re: pittsburghracer] #1432024 05/08/13 12:05 AM 05/08/13 12:05 AM
Joined: Feb 2012 Posts: 110 S.E. WI A allmopar OP member
allmopar OP member A Joined: Feb 2012 Posts: 110 S.E. WI	Guess what, I just couldn't go to bed with all of this floating around in my head so I went back out in the garage and cranked it over by hand while running the drill. After I went a little more than 360 with the crank, oil came flying out of the rear pedistals on the heads. I tried to put my thumb over the pedistal to see how much pressure there was and the oil pushed my thumb off. I now have about a quart of Brad Penn break in #30wt on the floor to clean up but I can go tomorrow to the speed shop and get more. Tomorrow I will put the rocker shafts back on and fill them with the drill before starting the motor again. To answer one of your questions, no I did not prime the motor on the stand to check it out first. I guess I shoud have. The priming was one of the last things I did before start up but I did not take a valve cover off to verify the oil was comming out of the rocker arm oil holes. Just that the drill boged down a lot and my pressure guage read good pressure. Thanks everyone for all the help, this site is A-1. I was worried that the heads only had one oil passage and they were on backwards.

Re: no oil flow to rocker shafts [Re: allmopar] #1432025 05/08/13 12:12 AM 05/08/13 12:12 AM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Quote: Guess what, I just couldn't go to bed with all of this floating around in my head so I went back out in the garage and cranked it over by hand while running the drill. After I went a little more than 360 with the crank, oil came flying out of the rear pedistals on the heads. I tried to put my thumb over the pedistal to see how much pressure there was and the oil pushed my thumb off. I now have about a quart of Brad Penn break in #30wt on the floor to clean up but I can go tomorrow to the speed shop and get more. Tomorrow I will put the rocker shafts back on and fill them with the drill before starting the motor again. To answer one of your questions, no I did not prime the motor on the stand to check it out first. I guess I shoud have. The priming was one of the last things I did before start up but I did not take a valve cover off to verify the oil was comming out of the rocker arm oil holes. Just that the drill boged down a lot and my pressure guage read good pressure. Thanks everyone for all the help, this site is A-1. I was worried that the heads only had one oil passage and they were on backwards. Well glad to hear you have it up there... the shafts do have a proper way to fit on and make sure they arent upside down

Re: no oil flow to rocker shafts [Re: allmopar] #1432026 05/08/13 05:58 AM 05/08/13 05:58 AM
Joined: May 2008 Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado 451Mopar master
451Mopar master Joined: May 2008 Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado	What hardware are you using to bolt the rockershafts down? Not sure with the HS rockers, but T&D uses a smaller thick wall rocker shaft, and the hardware is undercut so the studs don't block off the oil flow. Also, the bottom rockershaft hole where the oil comes from the stand can be drilled slightly larger so oil flows around the bolt/stud.

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