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MSD EFI Fuel System #1413660
04/02/13 01:39 PM
04/02/13 01:39 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 88
Minnesota, USA
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dnd0001 Offline OP
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Minnesota, USA
I have a 1974 Barracuda with a 1969 340 engine that I'm looking to upgrade to MSD EFI Sytem.

This is an expensive venture, so I want to only do this once and right. I'm looking for feed back on if I'm missing anything.

I currently have a 3/8" fuel supply line, mechanical pump and 1/4" vapor line. Tank is vented and I have a vent gas cap already.

I'm planning on removing the mechanical pump, Charcoal filter, modifing the gas tank and installing a Walbro pump in the gas tank, reuse the 3/8" supply fuel line, install a gauge and fuel regulator and pipng under the hood, using the 1/4" vapor line as the fuel return line back to the tank and installing a vented gas cap. The vent on the pump will be capped at the gas tank bacuase I would have the vented gas cap.

Has anyone done this or is there anything I'm not considering? I want a reliable fuel system and am will to spend the money up front to avoid the tow truck later. I think this would be the best setup based on other information I've found. Any thoughts? Thanks!

Re: MSD EFI Fuel System [Re: dnd0001] #1413661
04/02/13 02:29 PM
04/02/13 02:29 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 319
Northern Va
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Mopar73340 Offline
enthusiast
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Northern Va
Here's a bump. I'm looking at doing the same as you but as of today I still have not pulled the trigger. I'm trying to decide which system I want to use. If you are looking at the MSD Atomic system then you also need to consider the FAST Easy EFI setup. Lots of reading........

Re: MSD EFI Fuel System [Re: dnd0001] #1413662
04/02/13 03:09 PM
04/02/13 03:09 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,721
Star Idaho
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67vertman Offline
master
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Star Idaho
That is pretty much what I did with my EFI set up, except I ran a 5/8 and 3/8 sending unit, 5/8 for feeding the injectors and 3/8 for the return line, as my motor is putting out over 500 hp. Works great, no fuel staring issue.

Re: MSD EFI Fuel System [Re: Mopar73340] #1413663
04/02/13 03:12 PM
04/02/13 03:12 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,866
Ontario, Canada
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Stanton Offline
Don't question me!
Stanton  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,866
Ontario, Canada
The MSD has a lot of +'s but since they also have a forum, there are a lot of posts from people with problems. I've yet to find a FAST forums so one can't just assume that these are trouble-free!

The thing I like about the MSD versus the FAST is that it will handle a bit more HP, fewer connections AND the ability to use timing control, although a couple of mechanic friends are wondering why you'd want that.

I just wish they hadn't tried to make the thing look like a carb !!

Re: MSD EFI Fuel System [Re: dnd0001] #1413664
04/02/13 03:20 PM
04/02/13 03:20 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,848
Memphis
HemiRick Offline
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Memphis
This is a throttle body EFI and still has many drawbacks of a carb. OEM's quit using throttle bodies years ago for good reason, port fuel injection is MUCH better. If you're going to spend the money on EFI, you really want port injection. Yes it does cost a little more because you need a special intake manifold and 8 injectors....but then you have all the benefits of EFI not just half of them.

Last edited by HemiRick; 04/02/13 03:20 PM.

Take care,
Rick
68 Coronet R/T 440 & 68 Charger 528 Hemi,and 5 Challengers! 6 cyl, 318, 360, 383, 451
Re: MSD EFI Fuel System [Re: HemiRick] #1413665
04/02/13 03:29 PM
04/02/13 03:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,030
Wisconsin
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Aero426 Offline
I Live Here
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,030
Wisconsin
A friend installed the MSD Atomic on his Superbird last year. I think it is nice that you have to look hard for it to see it.

So far it is a mixed bag, but it is still early days. The car lights instantly which is pretty cool. Fuel mileage was not improved at all. Driveability has improved as the system has "learned". It had a bit of off idle stumble, but I hear it has gotten better. He is going to move the fuel pump into the tank as he experienced a vapor lock issue with it mounted just inside the rear of PS rocker panel.

Overall the system has not been a rousing success, nor has it been a failure. But it was expensive. We will see how it goes this year.

7651864-101_0868.JPG (148 downloads)
Re: MSD EFI Fuel System [Re: Aero426] #1413666
04/02/13 03:30 PM
04/02/13 03:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,030
Wisconsin
A
Aero426 Offline
I Live Here
Aero426  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,030
Wisconsin
ECU mounting.

The system was very straightforward to install. No drama.

7651867-101_0870.JPG (195 downloads)
Re: MSD EFI Fuel System [Re: Stanton] #1413667
04/02/13 03:33 PM
04/02/13 03:33 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 916
MB,CAN
PC-CHARGER Offline
super stock
PC-CHARGER  Offline
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Posts: 916
MB,CAN
Here's the FAST support forum.

http://www.cpgnation.com/forum/fast-product-support.html

They are not without their issues as well but one advantage is we have a member here, Rich Nedbal who sells and supports the FAST lineup. He provides excellent support and you can check out his website at www.fastmanefi.com .

Re: MSD EFI Fuel System [Re: Aero426] #1413668
04/02/13 03:33 PM
04/02/13 03:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,030
Wisconsin
A
Aero426 Offline
I Live Here
Aero426  Offline
I Live Here
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,030
Wisconsin
Engine is a pretty fresh, mildly enhanced 440. The car is a driver.

7651874-101_0867.JPG (201 downloads)
Re: MSD EFI Fuel System [Re: dnd0001] #1413669
04/02/13 04:50 PM
04/02/13 04:50 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
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jcc Offline
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
jcc  Offline
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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Bitopia
I believe you biggest issue is the return line size. Common sense says otherwise, but the 1/4" vapor line inhibits proper operation of the regulator, causing intermittent problems. If motor is mild, it might better to use 1/4" as supply, up the pressure a bit.

Any EFI's guru's concur?

are just add another 3/8" and forget about it.


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: MSD EFI Fuel System [Re: jcc] #1413670
04/02/13 04:59 PM
04/02/13 04:59 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo Offline
Too Many Posts
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Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
Scrap that 1/4" line. Upgrade the return to whatever size your regulator is designed for. I used a GM LS1 filter/regulator and that's designed for 3/8 supply and 5/16 return so that's what I used. Go too small on the return side and you risk the pump overwhelming the regulator resulting in incorrect and inconsistent fuel pressure.

Re: MSD EFI Fuel System [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #1413671
04/02/13 05:03 PM
04/02/13 05:03 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 92
chicago il usa
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komninon Offline
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chicago il usa
can you use this system with dual plane manifold?

Re: MSD EFI Fuel System [Re: komninon] #1413672
04/02/13 06:11 PM
04/02/13 06:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,883
Northern OH
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rapom Offline
top fuel
rapom  Offline
top fuel
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Posts: 1,883
Northern OH
Yes, it might even work better than a single plane.

Re: MSD EFI Fuel System [Re: komninon] #1413673
04/02/13 06:12 PM
04/02/13 06:12 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 765
Midwest
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fuseable Offline
super stock
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Midwest
I have the Atomic. I think it may be the best thing I have ever done to my Mopar, well next to the 480 ci HEMI.

7652039-ultraclean001.JPG (172 downloads)
Re: MSD EFI Fuel System [Re: fuseable] #1413674
04/03/13 11:28 AM
04/03/13 11:28 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,377
Ohio
Todd Offline
pro stock
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Posts: 1,377
Ohio

Re: MSD EFI Fuel System [Re: Todd] #1413675
04/03/13 03:35 PM
04/03/13 03:35 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 4,872
connecticut
pnypwr Offline
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pnypwr  Offline
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connecticut
Keep in mind if you put the pump in the tank you will need to baffle it or run an external reservoir. The pump will pull air causing a lean condition on low fuel levels around corners. Also you will need a bigger return line usually the same size as feed line.


"Are you gonna bark all day lil doggy? Or are you gonna bite?"


05 ram 2500 ctd
74 gremlin x 360
65 mustang 347
70 coronet R/T 440
03 Mach 1
Re: MSD EFI Fuel System [Re: pnypwr] #1413676
04/03/13 05:52 PM
04/03/13 05:52 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,866
Ontario, Canada
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Stanton Offline
Don't question me!
Stanton  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2005
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Ontario, Canada
Quote:

or run an external reservoir




Huh ?!?!? What good does that do if the pump pulls air?

Re: MSD EFI Fuel System [Re: Stanton] #1413677
04/03/13 07:44 PM
04/03/13 07:44 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,277
West Coast, USA
jbc426 Offline
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Posts: 3,277
West Coast, USA
Quote:

Quote:

or run an external reservoir




Huh ?!?!? What good does that do if the pump pulls air?




I went with a surge tank setup. It's fed through a 3/8 feed & 3/8 return. It pushes fuel to the front of the car with an external fuel pump filling the surge tank at near 0 psi. The surge tank is filled, bubbles rise to the top and are returned to the tank.

There's a high pressure electric pump in the surge tank that feeds the injectors and returns bypassed fuel back to the surge tank.

It works great even with 2 gallons in the tank. Try that with a baffled or sumped system.

Here's a diagram. I have pics if your interested.

7653491-SurgeTank.gif (67 downloads)

1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
Re: MSD EFI Fuel System [Re: jbc426] #1413678
04/03/13 07:46 PM
04/03/13 07:46 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,277
West Coast, USA
jbc426 Offline
master
jbc426  Offline
master

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,277
West Coast, USA
I used these guys ( http://www.radiumauto.com/ ) surge tank. They make nice stuff.


1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
Re: MSD EFI Fuel System [Re: jbc426] #1413679
04/03/13 08:28 PM
04/03/13 08:28 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 88
Minnesota, USA
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dnd0001 Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 88
Minnesota, USA
Thanks for all the advice. I will change out the 1/4" vapor line and install 3/8" return line. The 3/8" line feeds sufficient gas to my engine. The engine puts out 415 HP on the Dyno. I don't want to install a true EFI because it really clutters up the engine bay. I'm just looking for better running, faster response and more HP. I like the MSD because you don't see much and everything else in the car is MSD. Also how easy it it to install. The pump in the tank will have a baffle around the inlet. Plan on getting it from Tanks Inc along with the tank recess.

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