Should I dump my Addco bars?
#1413595
04/02/13 11:20 AM
04/02/13 11:20 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,190 SW MO
closer9
OP
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OP
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Posts: 2,190
SW MO
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I've been struggling with what to do about a daily driver once the wife goes back to work at the end of the summer. Decided I would just finish out the Belvedere. Well, took her for a drive Sunday and noticed something sounded loose in the front suspension on a bumpy section of my driveway. Had a feeling it was the front sway. Sure enough the bushings were kind mangled looking and a bit loose again.
I put this bar on back in 2006, and she seems to handle great, but I've had the bar on both ways ("V" up and "V" down) and the geometry just never seems to work out. The bar should be perpendicular to the end links, but it isn't. For that to be the case, I need to shorten the spacers in the end links, but then it looks like the bar would hit the bottom of the control arm. It looks like the rear of the bar should come up, and the whole thing move forward slightly.
Over the years I've seen a lot of negative comments on the Addco hardware, but never really seen anyone complain about the geometry. I'm wondering if something else is wrong. I have a #541 bar, but I see they also offer a #154 bar that appears to be for the exact same applications, but doesn't have the "V" in the middle.
I also have their rear bar, but still haven't installed it. I really don't want to spend twice the price for another bar. Is anyone successfully running an Addco front bar? What changes did you make to the hardware, or did you need to?
Next on my list of complaints will be the Scarebird disc conversion. Should have trashed that and kept the 5th Ave setup I had. Going to see if my friend will let me have the 5A stuff back if he isn't going to use it.
and then I would probably complain about my parts store rebuilt steering box, which doesn't leak like the old one, but has about as much slop as the old one. Rack and pinion would be nice, but will probably just invest in a Firm Feel box.
Starting to think I'll just find a cheap old Honda or Toyota to drive while working out all the little issues with the Belvedere.
When I was crunching numbers over the weekend, I was thinking new top, weatherstripping, etc., not brakes, sway bar and steering box.
Daily: '19 Frontier 4WD Belle: '67 Belvedere Convertible, 318/727 in Go ManGo! Other: '64 C10, 283/3 on the tree
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Re: Should I dump my Addco bars?
[Re: closer9]
#1413596
04/02/13 11:36 AM
04/02/13 11:36 AM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,697 Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,697
Bitopia
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First, it never ends. Keep the addco, without seeing pics, I don't think geometry improvement will help/matter much, unless you step up later to a heavier sway bar, just re[lace the bushings, I suspect they are urethane and at the end of their lifespan? Firm Feel #3 is a nice target. See post in handling on thoughts on rear bar. I don't know anything about your issues with the brake conversions. No need for a honda yet.
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: Should I dump my Addco bars?
[Re: jcc]
#1413598
04/02/13 11:50 AM
04/02/13 11:50 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,190 SW MO
closer9
OP
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Well, I did a little more searching just now. Found this pick that I didn't see last night. The K-frame brackets (this is posted as a Firm Feel setup) look like they could solve my geometry issues. The bar, and control arm brackets look very similar to my Addco bar and brackets. I saw a post last night with some similar brackets supposedly from Summit, but a very quick search didn't turn up anything. After seeing the above I may dig a little deeper at Summit. I really don't want to buy another bar. I think I just need to figure this one out, and as you mentioned, probably time for new bushings. Yes, I've heard good things about FF3, but seems like a lot of guys are running stock steering wheels. I'm running a smaller grant wheel. Not sure if that will make much difference, but that's another issue. My biggest complaint with the Scarebird (after I worked out the little install issues) is the Caliper bolts just barely hit the shock tubes on full lock turns, which is rarely done, but still. I'm just in a grumpy mood today. Cold and rainy STILL doesn't help.
Daily: '19 Frontier 4WD Belle: '67 Belvedere Convertible, 318/727 in Go ManGo! Other: '64 C10, 283/3 on the tree
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Re: Should I dump my Addco bars?
[Re: closer9]
#1413601
04/02/13 12:02 PM
04/02/13 12:02 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123 Grand Haven, MI
patrick
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
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Quote:
Starting to think I'll just find a cheap old Honda or Toyota to drive while working out all the little issues with the Belvedere.
When I was crunching numbers over the weekend, I was thinking new top, weatherstripping, etc., not brakes, sway bar and steering box.
Exactly why I decided to sell my 25 year old DD 5th ave hot rod and bought a brand new charger....except my little nit picky issues were compounded by the degradation of parts caused by MI winters to boot....sticky brake calipers were driving me bonkers
the end links don't need to be perfectly parallel to work....I used addco stuff on my M body, and it fit great, but they were direct replacements for the OEM bars (used OEM mounts), but larger diameter....
you should be able to adjust out the center lash of the steering gear box you have, and if you wanted to play with Ebooger's home shimming method to change the steering weight... http://www.moparaction.com/Tech/beep/PUMP_IT_DOWN-re-v1.4.pdf https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...e=1#Post7109554
Last edited by patrick; 04/02/13 12:13 PM.
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD 1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!*** 2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T 2017 Grand Cherokee Overland 2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
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Re: Should I dump my Addco bars?
[Re: patrick]
#1413602
04/02/13 12:42 PM
04/02/13 12:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,190 SW MO
closer9
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I've read up on the shimming and such, but the problem, as JohnRR mentioned, is the parts store boxes seem to just get new seals. I'm assuming the FF boxes get new gears. I've tried adjusting the lash on the current box, but afraid to go much more for fear of binding, but I guess I can go till it binds then back off.
I guess I'll keep trying to work out the geometry of the bar. I know they don't have to be perfect, but the way it sits now, it doesn't really look like the bar was even designed for this car.
Daily: '19 Frontier 4WD Belle: '67 Belvedere Convertible, 318/727 in Go ManGo! Other: '64 C10, 283/3 on the tree
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Re: Should I dump my Addco bars?
[Re: Kern Dog]
#1413604
04/02/13 03:48 PM
04/02/13 03:48 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,751 Graham, WA
Polarapete
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Keep the bars!! Years ago I bought a set of Addco bars for my then nearly new 1971 Valiant Scamp with 225/6, 727 and 8 3/4 rear. The bars came together in one big box and the front links were lost in shipping. So I installed the rear bar first and made my own front links. While it had only the rear bar in place, the car would oversteer. It was very entertaining! When I finished the front install, the car handled flat and great. Back then I did time & distance rallies on public and Forest Service roads and it would handle with the best of the European and Asian brands. I lost the car in a divorce and wish I had it back! I think the reason your bushings have worn out is because the front bar is doing all the work and if you had the rear bar on you would have the right combination and it would work together
1986 Dodge Ramcharger 440 2wd, Bracket Racer Under Construction 1998 Ram 2500 QuadCab, new daily driver. 2008 Honda Element 2014 Carry-On 7x14 Cargo Trailer
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Re: Should I dump my Addco bars?
[Re: closer9]
#1413605
04/02/13 04:03 PM
04/02/13 04:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,471 So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
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Posts: 27,471
So Cal
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Quote:
I've read up on the shimming and such, but the problem, as JohnRR mentioned, is the parts store boxes seem to just get new seals. I'm assuming the FF boxes get new gears. I've tried adjusting the lash on the current box, but afraid to go much more for fear of binding, but I guess I can go till it binds then back off.
I guess I'll keep trying to work out the geometry of the bar. I know they don't have to be perfect, but the way it sits now, it doesn't really look like the bar was even designed for this car.
Did you car come with a facotry front sway bar? Usually the issue is with the attachment location of the end link to the LCA with a non factory sway bar LCA. You've got to do some engineering with LCA bracket location and end link length. Do all mock up at ride height.
The energy suspension bracket will help the sway bar to K-member attachment a lot.
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Re: Should I dump my Addco bars?
[Re: autoxcuda]
#1413606
04/02/13 05:01 PM
04/02/13 05:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,190 SW MO
closer9
OP
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Ok, so apparently those brackets/bushings are stock replacements? and appear to only be available in 7/8" and 15/16".
So, I'm going to play around with the LCA bracket and end link length. If I don't get anywhere with that I'll see about getting a set of the Energy Suspension bushings/brackets. I really only need the brackets though, so might just try to make my own.
Will also, get to work installing the rear bar. I'm hoping it goes a little better than the front.
As far as the brakes, I'm going to see if I can remove the rubber part of the caliper that hits first on the shocks, and see if the actual bolts inside hit, and go from there.
As for the steering, I'll keep adjusting till I can't anymore, and if so just go with a FF2 or FF3.
Thanks guys. I'll keep you posted on how things go.
BTW, no, my car didn't originally have a bar. I'm using the complete Addco setup.
Last edited by closer9; 04/02/13 05:02 PM.
Daily: '19 Frontier 4WD Belle: '67 Belvedere Convertible, 318/727 in Go ManGo! Other: '64 C10, 283/3 on the tree
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Re: Should I dump my Addco bars?
[Re: closer9]
#1413608
04/02/13 11:53 PM
04/02/13 11:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,190 SW MO
closer9
OP
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BTW, I put a protractor on my steering wheel. I know not the best or easiest way to check, but I got about 25-30 degrees of play. Also, the shaft seems to move in/out of the box just a bit as it's moving back and forth. This box probably has less than 50 miles on it. I'm going to talk to the parts store, and see if I can get it swapped, or get my money back somehow or something...
Daily: '19 Frontier 4WD Belle: '67 Belvedere Convertible, 318/727 in Go ManGo! Other: '64 C10, 283/3 on the tree
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Re: Should I dump my Addco bars?
[Re: closer9]
#1413609
04/03/13 12:05 AM
04/03/13 12:05 AM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 817 Eugene, Oregon
Secret Chimp
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 817
Eugene, Oregon
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Quote:
BTW, I put a protractor on my steering wheel. I know not the best or easiest way to check, but I got about 25-30 degrees of play. Also, the shaft seems to move in/out of the box just a bit as it's moving back and forth. This box probably has less than 50 miles on it.
I'm going to talk to the parts store, and see if I can get it swapped, or get my money back somehow or something...
That sounds worse than my original box after nobody'd even touched the chuck adjustment since it rolled out of the dealership.
1967 Dodge Coronet Deluxe station wagon
1.03" T-bars, QA1 arms/rods, Cordoba/GM Metric/Volare brake & knuckle, XHDs, Hellwig rear sway, 318 Magnum w/ air gap, 727, 3.23s
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Re: Should I dump my Addco bars?
[Re: Secret Chimp]
#1413610
04/03/13 12:19 AM
04/03/13 12:19 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,190 SW MO
closer9
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Yeah, It's times like this I wanna just put a for sale sign in the window and head down to the dealership and see what new toy they're dealing on. But I'll keep throwing time and money at it till I get it right.
BTW, figure I'll bolt up the end links remove the frame mounts and take some measurements where the bar looks good and make some new angle brackets.
Daily: '19 Frontier 4WD Belle: '67 Belvedere Convertible, 318/727 in Go ManGo! Other: '64 C10, 283/3 on the tree
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Re: Should I dump my Addco bars?
[Re: closer9]
#1413611
04/03/13 01:00 AM
04/03/13 01:00 AM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 817 Eugene, Oregon
Secret Chimp
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 817
Eugene, Oregon
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Quote:
Yeah, It's times like this I wanna just put a for sale sign in the window and head down to the dealership and see what new toy they're dealing on. But I'll keep throwing time and money at it till I get it right.
BTW, figure I'll bolt up the end links remove the frame mounts and take some measurements where the bar looks good and make some new angle brackets.
Keep at it! This isn't yet another El Camino or Impala convertible or whatever. Getting it right will be worth it.
WRT to the box, try tightening the chuck adjustment first. It's not too hard to do - just get the front wheels in the air and tighten the little hex screw on the top until the slop is mostly gone and the wheel still turns freely (if you overdo it it will bind up). You shouldn't have to do that on a rebuilt box but I imagine you're kind of up the creek with regards to a refund at this point.
1967 Dodge Coronet Deluxe station wagon
1.03" T-bars, QA1 arms/rods, Cordoba/GM Metric/Volare brake & knuckle, XHDs, Hellwig rear sway, 318 Magnum w/ air gap, 727, 3.23s
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