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He's asking about juice lifters, Ron.

Not sure how much need there is for them, considering the relativly low spring pressures you run with a hydraulic cam. Not really needed IMO. Think about how much oil is already spilling down the valley directly onto the camshaft (if you've never seen it, its a LOT!!). Do you really think a tiny little hole is going to help or change anything? It's not lack of oil that causes cam failures. It's the wrong oil / lack of zinc additives in the oil that causes issues.

With the higher spring pressures of an extreme solid, I can see them as added insurance. Even then that's all they really are: added insurance. But on a hydraulic.... Wasted money IMO.

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EDM hyd lifters would be pretty trick.

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Meaning what exactly? They are available for Chevys so it's obviously doable... I don't mind spending extra for parts that some say is overkill, I'm well aware of ZDDP in oil, I've heard of enough mild hydraulic cams going flat that I'm willing to take extra measures to protect my cam & in turn protect my engine... I didn't ask if anyone thinks I need them, I asked if they are available & who sells them...

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I've wondered about drilling them myself with a cobalt bit tho if it was that easy I guess there'd be no need for the EDM process

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I think that is a misprint and those have a flat ground on the side to increase oil to the cam,old trick. Call Howard's and confirm would be my suggestion. Would be a trick but not sure the need to go to the effort.

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I am a bit skeptical regarding EDM hydraulics either their existance or the concept. First of all this is the first I've ever heard of the EDM concept being applied to hydraulics. I think the idea of sending pressurized oil directly to the lobe/lifter interface may have some merit, but where is the oil supposed to come from? As I see it, it can only come from one place and thats from inside the lifter body, I am not talking about lifters that use a groove on the outside of the lifter body here. Hydraulic lifters are made to very close internal tolerances. So close in fact that we are advised not to ever swap internals from one lifter to another. A .021 hole may not seem like much, but compared the internal clearances of a hydraulic lifter it's a bunch. I think a hole of that size will almost certainly have a deterimental effect on the lifter's ability to maintain proper preload and valve action ie. lift and duration. Something like the Rhoads and Crane lifters that were once sold with idea of quick bleed down at low rpm so that "hot" cams would be more streetable. In this case I think the bleed down would be a good deal greater. Of course I could be wrong about all this, but I know I am not going to be the first to try a set even if they do exist.

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Finally someone gets it! The Howards are not EDM type hyd lifters,they do have a flat to provide additional oil to the cam. I thought most would understand why it's not done,but I was wrong.It could be done but the question is why?? and would you pay for them? I know I wouldn't and have no issues with hyd flat tappet lobes .

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http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hrs-91116-1/overview/

Follow this link to see Howard's "EDM" lifters. They don't have flats on the side, they have a hole in the lifter foot.

R.

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I see what Dogdays is talking about. After clicking on the link you have to click on the writing in the upper right where is says.......Howards cam direct lube flat tappet lifters. That takes you to the site that says they have a .021 hole in the face of the lifter which is EDM laser cut. Ron

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I give up!!

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I see what Dogdays is talking about. After clicking on the link you have to click on the writing in the upper right where is says.......Howards cam direct lube flat tappet lifters. That takes you to the site that says they have a .021 hole in the face of the lifter which is EDM laser cut. Ron

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I give up!!

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I see what Dogdays is talking about. After clicking on the link you have to click on the writing in the upper right where is says.......Howards cam direct lube flat tappet lifters. That takes you to the site that says they have a .021 hole in the face of the lifter which is EDM laser cut. Ron

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I give up!!

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So are you saying that Howard's listing in the Summit ad is a lie? Why would they be saying that the hole is there if it isn't?

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I used the term misprint many posts ago,I guess it just flew right over some heads. You can check and find out if it's an EDM or NOT,easy to do. I like the guy with the hammer,I think he needs more use in this thread. Anyone find a EDM hyd lifter for a mopar,chevy,yogo yet? Now I'm really out!

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I see what Dogdays is talking about. After clicking on the link you have to click on the writing in the upper right where is says.......Howards cam direct lube flat tappet lifters. That takes you to the site that says they have a .021 hole in the face of the lifter which is EDM laser cut. Ron

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I give up!!

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So are you saying that Howard's listing in the Summit ad is a lie? Why would they be saying that the hole is there if it isn't?

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I used the term misprint many posts ago,I guess it just flew right over some heads. You can check and find out if it's an EDM or NOT,easy to do. I like the guy with the hammer,I think he needs more use in this thread. Anyone find a EDM hyd lifter for a mopar,chevy,yogo yet? Now I'm really out!

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I see what Dogdays is talking about. After clicking on the link you have to click on the writing in the upper right where is says.......Howards cam direct lube flat tappet lifters. That takes you to the site that says they have a .021 hole in the face of the lifter which is EDM laser cut. Ron

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I give up!!

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So are you saying that Howard's listing in the Summit ad is a lie? Why would they be saying that the hole is there if it isn't?

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I used the term misprint many posts ago,I guess it just flew right over some heads. You can check and find out if it's an EDM or NOT,easy to do. I like the guy with the hammer,I think he needs more use in this thread. Anyone find a EDM hyd lifter for a mopar,chevy,yogo yet? Now I'm really out!

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Goldmember I did not read every post on this thread as I did read the part where you stated they have the flat on the sides of them. Have you actually seen one the the Howards so called EDM hydraulic lifters ? I have never used or seen them as I have only used the Comp Solid EDM lifters but it does state they have the EDM laser hole in the bottom of them which I assume is what you are saying is a missprint ? Thats why I ask if you have actually bought or seen one ? I do see the flat on the sides when I blew up the pic. No reason to get upset as I was just stating what the add said and I guess I missed your earlier post where you say that is a missprint which you may be right as thats why I ask how you know that ? Ron

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I'm NOT upset,just amused by all this. Solid lifters are not the question. The lifters that have been linked as EDM hyd lifters are NOT but do increase oiling to the cam. Simple really. I guess I'm just watching a goofy train wreck and enjoying it,sort of like when folks pass a road accident and have to take a look.

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I see what Dogdays is talking about. After clicking on the link you have to click on the writing in the upper right where is says.......Howards cam direct lube flat tappet lifters. That takes you to the site that says they have a .021 hole in the face of the lifter which is EDM laser cut. Ron

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I give up!!

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So are you saying that Howard's listing in the Summit ad is a lie? Why would they be saying that the hole is there if it isn't?

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I used the term misprint many posts ago,I guess it just flew right over some heads. You can check and find out if it's an EDM or NOT,easy to do. I like the guy with the hammer,I think he needs more use in this thread. Anyone find a EDM hyd lifter for a mopar,chevy,yogo yet? Now I'm really out!

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Goldmember I did not read every post on this thread as I did read the part where you stated they have the flat on the sides of them. Have you actually seen one the the Howards so called EDM hydraulic lifters ? I have never used or seen them as I have only used the Comp Solid EDM lifters but it does state they have the EDM laser hole in the bottom of them which I assume is what you are saying is a missprint ? Thats why I ask if you have actually bought or seen one ? I do see the flat on the sides when I blew up the pic. No reason to get upset as I was just stating what the add said and I guess I missed your earlier post where you say that is a missprint which you may be right as thats why I ask how you know that ? Ron

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I'm NOT upset,just amused by all this. Solid lifters are not the question. The lifters that have been linked as EDM hyd lifters are NOT but do increase oiling to the cam. Simple really. I guess I'm just watching a goofy train wreck and enjoying it,sort of like when folks pass a road accident and have to take a look.

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Crower part number 66031X3-16 if anyone is interested in the crowers.

http://www.crower.com/media/pdf/2008b/140-141.pdf

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Crower part number 66031X3-16 if anyone is interested in the crowers.

http://www.crower.com/media/pdf/2008b/140-141.pdf

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That is not the lifter in question but is the lifter I suggested and have used .

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Crower part number 66031X3-16 if anyone is interested in the crowers.

http://www.crower.com/media/pdf/2008b/140-141.pdf

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That is not the lifter in question but is the lifter I suggested and have used .

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No [Edited by Moparts - Family Friendly Site - Keep it clean]!

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I've wondered about drilling them myself with a cobalt bit tho if it was that easy I guess there'd be no need for the EDM process

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I see what Dogdays is talking about. After clicking on the link you have to click on the writing in the upper right where is says.......Howards cam direct lube flat tappet lifters. That takes you to the site that says they have a .021 hole in the face of the lifter which is EDM laser cut. Ron

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I give up!!

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So are you saying that Howard's listing in the Summit ad is a lie? Why would they be saying that the hole is there if it isn't?

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I used the term misprint many posts ago,I guess it just flew right over some heads. You can check and find out if it's an EDM or NOT,easy to do. I like the guy with the hammer,I think he needs more use in this thread. Anyone find a EDM hyd lifter for a mopar,chevy,yogo yet? Now I'm really out!

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Goldmember I did not read every post on this thread as I did read the part where you stated they have the flat on the sides of them. Have you actually seen one the the Howards so called EDM hydraulic lifters ? I have never used or seen them as I have only used the Comp Solid EDM lifters but it does state they have the EDM laser hole in the bottom of them which I assume is what you are saying is a missprint ? Thats why I ask if you have actually bought or seen one ? I do see the flat on the sides when I blew up the pic. No reason to get upset as I was just stating what the add said and I guess I missed your earlier post where you say that is a missprint which you may be right as thats why I ask how you know that ? Ron

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I'm NOT upset,just amused by all this. Solid lifters are not the question. The lifters that have been linked as EDM hyd lifters are NOT but do increase oiling to the cam. Simple really. I guess I'm just watching a goofy train wreck and enjoying it,sort of like when folks pass a road accident and have to take a look.

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You must work for the current dictator , you didn't answer the question ..

Have you actually seen with your own 2 eyes the Howards hyd. lifters with the flat on the side and not a hole in the bottom as they claim on their website ?

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Relatively sure no one cares at this point, but EDM
stands for "electrical discharge machining", saw one at one of my best friends' machine shop (they later sold it),It looked kinda like a drill press but lower, and had a holder where the chuck would be, and you used a specified size electrode and amperage(?) to burn a precision hole in metal.They used it IIRC to core a few broken studs and decided it wasn't a tool they would use often.

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Relatively sure no one cares at this point, but EDM
stands for "electrical discharge machining", saw one at one of my best friends' machine shop (they later sold it),It looked kinda like a drill press but lower, and had a holder where the chuck would be, and you used a specified size electrode and amperage(?) to burn a precision hole in metal.They used it IIRC to core a few broken studs and decided it wasn't a tool they would use often.

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Thank you

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WTF are you talking about? Yes I am sure the lifters that are being linked are NOT EDM! How many times do I need to repeat that??? Go order a set and report your official findings on them. I tried to save some folks some time on a stupid idea,pretty simple as I do not make any $$ for doing so. If there was a market for EDM HYD lifters I'm sure Comp or someone would have found a cheap source for the suckers that would fork out the cash for them. It's not as simple as EDMing a freakin hole in the foot to the interior. Got it yet??? I'm LOLMAO

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WTF are you talking about? Yes I am sure the lifters that are being linked are NOT EDM! How many times do I need to repeat that??? Go order a set and report your official findings on them. I tried to save some folks some time on a stupid idea,pretty simple as I do not make any $$ for doing so. If there was a market for EDM HYD lifters I'm sure Comp or someone would have found a cheap source for the suckers that would fork out the cash for them. It's not as simple as EDMing a freakin hole in the foot to the interior. Got it yet??? I'm LOLMAO

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What are you talking about ? what makes you so sure , you are still not answering the question that was asked of you .

That is the way I am reading you hieroglyphics on the subject, you have NEVER actually seen, purchased or talked to anyone . All you are doing is speculating.

Comp has found a bigger money maker , they nitride the cams at a cost of $150 ...

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I've done the research,now it's your turn. NO I don't need to handle one to know whats going on,but maybe you do??? Nitriding a flat tappet is silly but I shouldn't say that on the net as some are still spending the $$$. You got it yet?

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Direct Lube™ Hydraulic Lifters

Designed for today’s more aggressive lobes. Increases oil supply to the cam lobes is critical. These lifters provide a constant oil supply to the cam lobe, more aggressive profiles and reduced lobe wear. Perfect for daily driven aggressive Street Machines, Street/Strip or hydraulic race applications. Sets of 16. Made in the USA.


91116 Chevrolet V8 265-454

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It's easier to get a point across when one doesn't act like a 5 yr old ...

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I ordered a flat tappet cam today,no nitride,no oiling lifters . 160lbs seat 20lbs boost no worries. I'll let everyone know if it goes flat Back to the hyd crap,its not worth worrying about unless you buy crap parts or just unlucky.

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EDIT ... It would appear that the in between goldmembers fits of and that the Summit ad is misprinted , they must be ASSuMEing that the hyb. lifters are the same as the flat tappet solids.

Summit shows the same picture of a lifter with a flat ground on the side as on the Howard site but for some reason did not copy the text from the Howard's site ?

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Direct Lube™ Hydraulic Lifters

Designed for today’s more aggressive lobes. Increases oil supply to the cam lobes is critical. These lifters provide a constant oil supply to the cam lobe, more aggressive profiles and reduced lobe wear. Perfect for daily driven aggressive Street Machines, Street/Strip or hydraulic race applications. Sets of 16. Made in the USA.


91116 Chevrolet V8 265-454

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It's easier to get a point across when one doesn't act like a 5 yr old ...

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EDIT ... It would appear that the in between goldmembers fits of and that the Summit ad is misprinted , they must be ASSuMEing that the flat tappet hyd. lifters are the same as the flat tappet solids.

Summit shows the same picture of a lifter with a flat ground on the side as on the Howard site but for some reason did not copy the text from the Howard's site ?

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Direct Lube™ Hydraulic Lifters

Designed for today’s more aggressive lobes. Increases oil supply to the cam lobes is critical. These lifters provide a constant oil supply to the cam lobe, more aggressive profiles and reduced lobe wear. Perfect for daily driven aggressive Street Machines, Street/Strip or hydraulic race applications. Sets of 16. Made in the USA.


91116 Chevrolet V8 265-454

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It's easier to get a point across when one doesn't act like a 5 yr old ...

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I ordered a flat tappet cam today,no nitride,no oiling lifters . 160lbs seat 20lbs boost no worries. I'll let everyone know if it goes flat Back to the hyd crap,its not worth worrying about unless you buy crap parts or just unlucky.

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Hopefully you didn't order something off the shelf from Comp because the last one I had only lasted 6 mins before it started going south

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I ordered a flat tappet cam today,no nitride,no oiling lifters . 160lbs seat 20lbs boost no worries. I'll let everyone know if it goes flat Back to the hyd crap,its not worth worrying about unless you buy crap parts or just unlucky.

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Hopefully you didn't order something off the shelf from Comp because the last one I had only lasted 6 mins before it started going south

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I'm not sure why you'd think I'd use comp for more than a john to pinch a loaf while driving to another cam grinder,but I'm not shocked by your results. Shelf grind? Whats that? Yep,30yrs ago was the last shelf comp cam,I guess even then the magazine adds were a big draw and I lived a few miles from them. Thanks for your concern.

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I don't know what you ordered for a cam but I was just giving a heads up to anyone still interested in this thread even after you dragged it down to your level ...

Just for the information of the board shelf stock at Comp is not even ground by Comp anymore, I'm told it's done by an outside firm, Engine Machine ... something like that ..., so the quality is not anywhere as good as what Comp used to be it would appear ... unfortunately.

Comp did warranty the cam and lifters and I had Dwayne Porter do a custom grind and had it nitrided, like should have been done in the first place but the person the engine was being built for wanted to save some bucks, we used the Crower cam saver lifters and all is fine this time around.

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The only cam company nitriding cams to my knowledge is Comp. When Porter or Brown have a cam custom ground for you, where do you think they get it? A place that has a lot of lobe profiles with which they're comfortable. Like Comp. Or Crane. Maybe Bullet or a few others. But Comp will grind you a custom cam for only a few dollars more than a shelf grind.
As to quality, the cam core determines the quality and none of the cam companies manufacture their own cores, as far as I know. So to slam a particular company because you had a ""bad lobe' is ignorant. Now if the lobes weren't the right ones, or were inaccurate, or some other deficit of the grinding process, then yes.

R.

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I ordered a flat tappet cam today,no nitride,no oiling lifters . 160lbs seat 20lbs boost no worries. I'll let everyone know if it goes flat Back to the hyd crap,its not worth worrying about unless you buy crap parts or just unlucky.

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Hopefully you didn't order something off the shelf from Comp because the last one I had only lasted 6 mins before it started going south

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I'm not sure why you'd think I'd use comp for more than a john to pinch a loaf while driving to another cam grinder,but I'm not shocked by your results. Shelf grind? Whats that? Yep,30yrs ago was the last shelf comp cam,I guess even then the magazine adds were a big draw and I lived a few miles from them. Thanks for your concern.

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I don't know what you ordered for a cam but I was just giving a heads up to anyone still interested in this thread even after you dragged it down to your level ...

Just for the information of the board shelf stock at Comp is not even ground by Comp anymore, I'm told it's done by an outside firm, Engine Machine ... something like that ..., so the quality is not anywhere as good as what Comp used to be it would appear ... unfortunately.

Comp did warranty the cam and lifters and I had Dwayne Porter do a custom grind and had it nitrided, like should have been done in the first place but the person the engine was being built for wanted to save some bucks, we used the Crower cam saver lifters and all is fine this time around.
"Yep,Comp doesn't grind the shelf stuff,thats no suprise. Sorry I didn't give a heads up years ago. LOL
Sorry I didn't follow this informative thread. hope everyone is having good luck with all those cams. "