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Re: four wheel disc don't stop car [Re: BigBlockMopar] #1389440 02/18/13 06:16 AM 02/18/13 06:16 AM
Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 294 The Netherlands, OV D dickdale enthusiast
dickdale enthusiast D Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 294 The Netherlands, OV	Change the bore size of the master cylinder...

Re: four wheel disc don't stop car [Re: JimDiesel] #1389441 02/18/13 09:39 AM 02/18/13 09:39 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 28,114 Irving, TX feets Senior Management
feets Senior Management Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 28,114 Irving, TX	Smaller master cylinder. That will get you going until you're ready to do some upgrades. Take care of those lines like the others suggested. If the pedal isn't spongy there is no reason to bleed the rears. If you do need to bleed upside down calipers it's easier than you think. Open the master cylinder cap. Unbolt the caliper from the axle. Hold the caliper at a funky angle so the bleeder is the highest point. Open the bleed screw and let it gravity bleed for a few seconds. Reinstall. I had to do that on my TSM rear brake calipers. We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind. - Stu Harmon

Re: four wheel disc don't stop car [Re: feets] #1389442 02/18/13 10:51 AM 02/18/13 10:51 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,396 The Pale Blue Dot Skeptic master
Skeptic master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,396 The Pale Blue Dot	I just wanted to add that those GM calipers go bad frequently and if the pads aren't adjusted tight they'll never work-in addition to everything else put out here. The parts store "rebuilt" units are hit-miss on working out of the box, get them with a lifetime warranty, or try to get new ones on ebay.

Re: four wheel disc don't stop car [Re: Skeptic] #1389443 02/18/13 12:46 PM 02/18/13 12:46 PM
Joined: Sep 2011 Posts: 2,042 colorado S savoy64 top fuel
savoy64 top fuel S Joined: Sep 2011 Posts: 2,042 colorado	the picture shows the hose going in the top and the bleeder is at the bottom---cant bleed it unless you put the car on its top---the other problem is chevy masters work the opposite of mopars--on the mopar the back line goes to the front brakes--on a chevy the front line goes to the front brakes----i would go back to mopar stuff---yeah yeah yeah--chevy gave us the sbc---ford gave us the 9 inch--mopar was the leader in brakes---mopar was so superior that wilwood copied it....bob

Re: four wheel disc don't stop car [Re: savoy64] #1389444 02/18/13 05:06 PM 02/18/13 05:06 PM
Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 142 Petaluma, CA J JimDiesel OP member
JimDiesel OP member J Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 142 Petaluma, CA	Thanks for all the replies. I appreciate the help. Since the car can�t be driven as is, I am committed to spending some money to fix/upgrade. I am ok with switching the rear calipers side to side and buying a new MC. I just don�t want to throw good money after bad, if this setup is always going to be sub-par, then I think I would be better off replacing the whole thing. I guess the rears need to be switched or replaced either way. The front rotors seem pretty small for a 4,000-pound car. At some point I want to be able to take my little girls for a Sunday drive, and it needs to be able to stop. The wheels are 16x8 torque thrust style aluminum wheels. The tires need to be replaced, and with the lack of appropriate 16-inch tires, I will likely be going to back to 15-inch steels that I have in the garage. 68 Road Runner 67 Coronet

Re: four wheel disc don't stop car [Re: Skeptic] #1389445 02/18/13 10:46 PM 02/18/13 10:46 PM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours Supercuda About to go away
Supercuda About to go away Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours	Quote: I just wanted to add that those GM calipers go bad frequently and if the pads aren't adjusted tight they'll never work-in addition to everything else put out here. The parts store "rebuilt" units are hit-miss on working out of the box, get them with a lifetime warranty, or try to get new ones on ebay. You are talking about he rear calipers with the built in E brake I assume? That would be correct. If the E brake isn't functioning properly and used regularly slack builds up between the pads and rotor causing a lower amount of braking to occur. This could very well be the issue here, along with the other ones mentioned. They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.

Re: four wheel disc don't stop car [Re: Supercuda] #1389446 02/18/13 11:02 PM 02/18/13 11:02 PM
Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 142 Petaluma, CA J JimDiesel OP member
JimDiesel OP member J Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 142 Petaluma, CA	The E brake doesn't do anything. The pedal goes to the floor with no effect. I havent looked into it yet. I was focusing on getting the car to stop first, not knowing that could be a symptom of other issues. 68 Road Runner 67 Coronet

Re: four wheel disc don't stop car [Re: savoy64] #1389447 02/19/13 01:09 AM 02/19/13 01:09 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 28,114 Irving, TX feets Senior Management
feets Senior Management Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 28,114 Irving, TX	Quote: the picture shows the hose going in the top and the bleeder is at the bottom---cant bleed it unless you put the car on its top--- Wrong. You pull the calipers off, hold them at a funky angle where the bleeder is highest, and gravity bleed for a few seconds. I did that using the exact same calipers on the hot rod (before the AMG conversion) Quote: the other problem is chevy masters work the opposite of mopars--on the mopar the back line goes to the front brakes--on a chevy the front line goes to the front brakes- You realize that the master cylinder has the same size bore all the way through, right? It makes no difference which bore leads to which brakes. When you push on the pedal the exact same fluid movement and pressure is found in both lines. The only difference will be if one reservoir is larger than the other. The larger reservoir needs to feed the larger caliper. That way you don't get too low on fluid as the pads wear. We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind. - Stu Harmon

Re: four wheel disc don't stop car [Re: feets] #1389448 02/19/13 10:04 AM 02/19/13 10:04 AM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 28,312 Cincinnati, Ohio Challenger 1 Too Many Posts
Challenger 1 Too Many Posts Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 28,312 Cincinnati, Ohio	I am not sure about anything, but that master cly looks like it's for drum brakes?? I used to work at Hader Industries here in Cincinnati, they made master cylinders and pistons. I ran a screw machine making those pistons inside the master cylinders.

Re: four wheel disc don't stop car [Re: Challenger 1] #1389449 02/19/13 11:52 AM 02/19/13 11:52 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 28,114 Irving, TX feets Senior Management
feets Senior Management Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 28,114 Irving, TX	If the bore is the proper size and there are not residual valves it doesn't matter what the original application was. However, if it doesn't meet that criteria there will be problems. We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind. - Stu Harmon

Re: four wheel disc don't stop car [Re: Challenger 1] #1389450 02/19/13 11:52 AM 02/19/13 11:52 AM
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 780 Woodinville, WA Viol8r super stock
Viol8r super stock Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 780 Woodinville, WA	Quote: I am not sure about anything, but that master cly looks like it's for drum brakes?? I used to work at Hader Industries here in Cincinnati, they made master cylinders and pistons. I ran a screw machine making those pistons inside the master cylinders. http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=309131&cc=1232020 RAYBESTOS Part # MC36439 Looks like this is what you have a 1 1/32" bore Drum Brake M/C. Definetly the wrong set-up for your combo. 1968 Pro-Touring Dodge Charger *2011 Optima Ultimate Street Car Challenge Invitee http://www.popularhotrodding.com/features/1203phr_1968_dodge_charger/index.html

Re: four wheel disc don't stop car [Re: JimDiesel] #1389451 02/19/13 11:06 PM 02/19/13 11:06 PM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours Supercuda About to go away
Supercuda About to go away Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours	Quote: The E brake doesn't do anything. The pedal goes to the floor with no effect. I havent looked into it yet. I was focusing on getting the car to stop first, not knowing that could be a symptom of other issues. The rear GM calipers are designed to use the Ebrake as a method to take up sack as the pad wears. The lever the ebrake cable attaches to mechanically applies the piston via a one way ratchet mechanism. If the ebrake isn't used or isn't functional the pads will have a larger and larger gap between the pad and rotor. This will affect the feel at the pedal, to the point of being ineffectual if it the gap grows larger enough. Here's an interesting link http://classicbroncos.com/tech/rear-disc-brakes-cadillacgm-calipers They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.

Re: four wheel disc don't stop car [Re: Supercuda] #1389452 02/20/13 11:29 PM 02/20/13 11:29 PM
Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 12,593 Great Neck,LI,new york hemi-itis I Live Here
hemi-itis I Live Here Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 12,593 Great Neck,LI,new york	Have you tried adjusting the prop valve?? Those GM rear calipers NEVER worked well.I've seen that alot especially on Eldorados HEMI-ITIS has no cure. My condition is fully BLOWN!!

Re: four wheel disc don't stop car [Re: hemi-itis] #1389453 02/21/13 12:42 PM 02/21/13 12:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 780 Woodinville, WA Viol8r super stock
Viol8r super stock Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 780 Woodinville, WA	See the first post from the OP. His pedal feel ok. If you have never run these GM Calipers, the first thing you notice when they are out of adjustment is you get excessive pedal travel.....this is not the case. Granted, they may need adjustment but this is not the root of the problem. He has the wrong combination M/C to Calipers. Simple fix. I also run these aluminum rear Wilwood Metric Calipers in place of the Stock GM calipers. Much better for track use and competition. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WIL-120-7197/ 1968 Pro-Touring Dodge Charger *2011 Optima Ultimate Street Car Challenge Invitee http://www.popularhotrodding.com/features/1203phr_1968_dodge_charger/index.html

Re: four wheel disc don't stop car [Re: Viol8r] #1389454 02/21/13 01:07 PM 02/21/13 01:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 8,017 Polson, MT DoctorDiff master
DoctorDiff master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 8,017 Polson, MT	This is an SSBC front and rear brake kit. It uses late '60s Mustang front calipers and late '80s Thunderbird rear calipers. The bleeder valve is located in the banjo bolt at the top of the caliper. The least expensive remedy is a 15/16" bore master cylinder and aggressive front brake pads (ie EBC Yellow). Contact info

Re: four wheel disc don't stop car [Re: DoctorDiff] #1389455 02/21/13 02:01 PM 02/21/13 02:01 PM
Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 142 Petaluma, CA J JimDiesel OP member
JimDiesel OP member J Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 142 Petaluma, CA	sorry, i have been down with stomach flu. I did play with the prop valve and it didnt seem to have much effect. It defintely didn't improve things. I need to check the plumbing to see if it is even installed correctly. I will try to get some better pics of the master. 68 Road Runner 67 Coronet

Re: four wheel disc don't stop car [Re: JimDiesel] #1389456 02/21/13 02:04 PM 02/21/13 02:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 780 Woodinville, WA Viol8r super stock
Viol8r super stock Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 780 Woodinville, WA	Quote: sorry, i have been down with stomach flu. I did play with the prop valve and it didnt seem to have much effect. It defintely didn't improve things. I need to check the plumbing to see if it is even installed correctly. I will try to get some better pics of the master. Save yourself the trouble and go with Dr. Diff's advice..... get a different Master Cylinder. We saw the earlier picture....it looks to be a earlier A-body M/C. 1968 Pro-Touring Dodge Charger *2011 Optima Ultimate Street Car Challenge Invitee http://www.popularhotrodding.com/features/1203phr_1968_dodge_charger/index.html

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