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ZDDP oil analysis results
#1387987
02/15/13 08:39 PM
02/15/13 08:39 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,943
San Angelo, Texas, U.S.A.
1968RR
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,943
San Angelo, Texas, U.S.A.
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We recently analyzed nine motor oils using neutron activation analysis (NAA) to determine ZDDP content. Typically, ZDDP content is determined using a method called inductively coupled plasma atomic emission spectroscopy, which usually results in much higher uncertainties than NAA (our uncertainties were all below 2%). We may publish the data in an academic journal after some more tests are run (using different methods), so I'm not going to post the exact concentrations just yet. However, the oils are listed here in order from highest to lowest concentrations and a range of ppm is given. All oils tested were 10W30, except for the Comp Cams additive, which didn't specify a weight. Here are the results: Comp Cams additive: 9500-9600 ppm Brad Penn: 1600-1700 ppm Valvoline VR1: 1200-1300 ppm Rotella T: 1200-1300 ppm Red Line: 1100-1200 ppm Royal Purple: 800-900 ppm Lucas: 800-900 ppm Valvoline: 700-800 ppm SuperTech (Walmart): 600-700 ppm 
"When I'm in a slump, I comfort myself by saying if I believe in dinosaurs, then somewhere, they must be believing in me. And if they believe in me, then I can believe in me." - Mookie Wilson
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Re: ZDDP oil analysis results
[Re: T2R9]
#1387990
02/15/13 09:23 PM
02/15/13 09:23 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,337
the house on the left.
cogen80
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,337
the house on the left.
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Quote:
Comp Cams additive: 9500-9600 ppm
Brad Penn: 1600-1700 ppm
Valvoline VR1: 1200-1300 ppm
Rotella T: 1200-1300 ppm
Red Line: 1100-1200 ppm
Royal Purple: 800-900 ppm
Lucas: 800-900 ppm
Valvoline: 700-800 ppm
SuperTech (Walmart): 600-700 ppm
ok, so whats the number thats sufficient for old flat tappet motors? or is it just more the merrier? i mean if 600ppm is plenty of protection it would be kinda silly to spend more money on some of the fancier oils..
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Re: ZDDP oil analysis results
[Re: cogen80]
#1387991
02/15/13 09:45 PM
02/15/13 09:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,785
Utah and Alaska
astjp2
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,785
Utah and Alaska
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Around 1000 PPM is good, little more/less is ok.
1941 Taylorcraft
1968 Charger
1994 Wrangler
1998 Wrangler
2008 Kia Rio
2017 Jetta
I didn't do 4 years and 9 months of Graduate School to be called Mister!
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Re: ZDDP oil analysis results
[Re: gss]
#1387995
02/15/13 10:37 PM
02/15/13 10:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,030
Wisconsin
Aero426
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,030
Wisconsin
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Quote:
I had heard that the new Rotella T has a lower content ZDDP. Those numbers look like what the older stuff had. Do you know how recently the Rotella was purchased?
The older Rotella is CI. The later with the reduced ZDDP is CJ.
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Re: ZDDP oil analysis results
[Re: Aero426]
#1387996
02/15/13 10:43 PM
02/15/13 10:43 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,943
San Angelo, Texas, U.S.A.
1968RR
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,943
San Angelo, Texas, U.S.A.
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I bought the Rotella T that we tested two months ago. It was conventional (non-synthetic) oil. The VR1 that was tested was the type in the silver bottle.
As far as how much ZDDP is needed for flat tappet cams - I don't know. But I've heard that 1200-1500 ppm is optimal. I have also read on some message boards that too much ZDDP can actually increase wear, BUT have never seen any data or cited references to back that up. I do know that it is the phosphorus, not the zinc, in ZDDP that provides the anti-wear protection.
"When I'm in a slump, I comfort myself by saying if I believe in dinosaurs, then somewhere, they must be believing in me. And if they believe in me, then I can believe in me." - Mookie Wilson
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Re: ZDDP oil analysis results
[Re: Aero426]
#1387998
02/15/13 10:53 PM
02/15/13 10:53 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 96,662
On The Boat, On The Lake, Wa. ...
amxautox
Still Retired. Still Posting on Moparts. A Lot.
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Still Retired. Still Posting on Moparts. A Lot.
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 96,662
On The Boat, On The Lake, Wa. ...
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Quote:
Quote:
I had heard that the new Rotella T has a lower content ZDDP. Those numbers look like what the older stuff had. Do you know how recently the Rotella was purchased?
The older Rotella is CI. The later with the reduced ZDDP is CJ.
So, the jug of Valvoline Premium Blue heavy duty diesel engine oil 15-40 I have says on the lable;
exceeds
API SERVICES CJ-4, CI-4 PLUS, CI-4 CH-4, CG-4, CF-4, CF/SM.
So, just what is what? It has both ci and cj, not to mention ch, cg, cf and cf/sm. What does all that mean?
Tom
"Everyone should believe in something; I believe I'll go fishing."
-Henry David Thoreau
Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths
author unknown
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Re: ZDDP oil analysis results
[Re: amxautox]
#1387999
02/15/13 10:56 PM
02/15/13 10:56 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 96,662
On The Boat, On The Lake, Wa. ...
amxautox
Still Retired. Still Posting on Moparts. A Lot.
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Still Retired. Still Posting on Moparts. A Lot.
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 96,662
On The Boat, On The Lake, Wa. ...
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A quote that was stated in another thread back on 3-13-2007;
Quote:
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if its SM rated it doesnt belong in our cars.
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Nope. CJ4, CI4, CH4/SL, and DI4 Plus
Valvoline Premium Blue
Tom
"Everyone should believe in something; I believe I'll go fishing."
-Henry David Thoreau
Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths
author unknown
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Re: ZDDP oil analysis results
[Re: amxautox]
#1388001
02/15/13 11:05 PM
02/15/13 11:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,030
Wisconsin
Aero426
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,030
Wisconsin
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Quote:
exceeds
API SERVICES CJ-4, CI-4 PLUS, CI-4 CH-4, CG-4, CF-4, CF/SM.
So, just what is what? It has both ci and cj, not to mention ch, cg, cf and cf/sm. What does all that mean?
It supercedes thoses other API ratings. But it does not mean it is suitable for use in a flat tappet engine. If it has CJ or "low emissions" on the bottle, it is the new emissions friendly diesel oil, which means it has the reduced additive package. Diesel oils typically had boosted Zinc levels, but they also have a high detergent package that in essence tries to clean off the anti-wear coating. Many here will tell you the use of Rotella or other diesel oils is fine. I would consider a CJ oil to be borderline. I'm not using them. Use with a roller cam or overhead cam would be OK.
For passenger car rated oils, avoid anything with SM or SN rating UNLESS it specifically calls out protection like the silver bottle of VR-1 does.
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Re: ZDDP oil analysis results
[Re: Aero426]
#1388002
02/15/13 11:15 PM
02/15/13 11:15 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 96,662
On The Boat, On The Lake, Wa. ...
amxautox
Still Retired. Still Posting on Moparts. A Lot.
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Still Retired. Still Posting on Moparts. A Lot.
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 96,662
On The Boat, On The Lake, Wa. ...
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Quote:
Quote:
exceeds
API SERVICES CJ-4, CI-4 PLUS, CI-4 CH-4, CG-4, CF-4, CF/SM.
So, just what is what? It has both ci and cj, not to mention ch, cg, cf and cf/sm. What does all that mean?
If it has CJ or "low emissions" on the bottle, it is the new emissions friendly diesel oil, which means it has the reduced additive package. Diesel oils typically had boosted Zinc levels, but they also have a high detergent package that in essence tries to clean off the anti-wear coating. I would consider a CJ oil to be borderline. I'm not using them.
For passenger car rated oils, avoid anything with SM or SN rating UNLESS it specifically calls out protection like the silver bottle of VR-1 does.
My silver/grey bottle of full synthetic Valvoline doesn't say anything special about 'protection'.
It says on the label;
exceeds
API SERVICES SL/SJ, CF/CD, ILSAC GF-3
Tom
"Everyone should believe in something; I believe I'll go fishing."
-Henry David Thoreau
Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths
author unknown
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Re: ZDDP oil analysis results
[Re: amxautox]
#1388003
02/15/13 11:20 PM
02/15/13 11:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,030
Wisconsin
Aero426
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,030
Wisconsin
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Quote:
My silver bottle of full synthetic Valvoline doesn't say anything special about 'protection'.
It says on the label;
exceeds
API SERVICES SL/SJ, CF/CD, ILSAC GF-3
Your bottle is not VR-1. It is regular Valvoline synthetic. The SL rated oil is the last API rated oil before they went to SM which dramatically reduced the ZDDP levels. This reduction has been occuring over time. Your SL oil is ok for a street engine. If you bought the same bottle today, it would likely be SM or SN rated which would not be OK.
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Re: ZDDP oil analysis results
[Re: 1968RR]
#1388005
02/15/13 11:44 PM
02/15/13 11:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,401
Omaha Ne
TJP
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
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Omaha Ne
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Re: ZDDP oil analysis results
[Re: Challenger 1]
#1388006
02/16/13 12:02 AM
02/16/13 12:02 AM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,943
San Angelo, Texas, U.S.A.
1968RR
OP
top fuel
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OP
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,943
San Angelo, Texas, U.S.A.
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Quote:
It would be interesting to know the API SERVICE classification of the actual oil you tested for each brand, that's pretty important to compare it would seem?
Yes and no. Some brands (like Brad Penn, for example) don't have any API classification on the bottle. Others, like SuperTech and Valvoline, do. We just tried to choose commonly used motor oils and a few specialty oils. Oils that are rated API SN aren't supposed to have more than 800 ppm ZDDP (for environmental reasons and because they can harm catalytic converters), but some of them tested did.
"When I'm in a slump, I comfort myself by saying if I believe in dinosaurs, then somewhere, they must be believing in me. And if they believe in me, then I can believe in me." - Mookie Wilson
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