ZDDP oil analysis results

Posted By: 340wedge

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 02/16/13 04:53 AM

I have been using Amsoil, I wonder where the results would be in comparison.

Posted By: amxautox

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 02/16/13 04:57 AM

I've thought about Amsoil. There's a dealer not too far from me. I've gotten brake lines from him for the AMX and van, and talked to him a little about the oil. Just more to worry about which would be the best.

Posted By: moparfan53

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 02/16/13 05:08 AM

Quote:

I presume the VR means it's a 'Valvoline Racing' oil? No it doesn't have VR-1 on the bottle. It also doesn't have SM or SN on the bottles. It's been a couple years since I bought this case. I'll be needing some more sorta soon.

Info here on the 3 different VR-1/Racing Oils available;

http://www.valvoline.com/products/consumer-products/motor-oil/racing-motor-oil/

Posted By: amxautox

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 02/16/13 05:15 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I presume the VR means it's a 'Valvoline Racing' oil? No it doesn't have VR-1 on the bottle. It also doesn't have SM or SN on the bottles. It's been a couple years since I bought this case. I'll be needing some more sorta soon.

Info here on the 3 different VR-1/Racing Oils available;

http://www.valvoline.com/products/consumer-products/motor-oil/racing-motor-oil/

Thanks. Interesting read. I'll have look for those at the store, or to ask if they have/can get it. The third selection looks to be what I want.

Posted By: 1968RR

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 02/16/13 05:44 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I presume the VR means it's a 'Valvoline Racing' oil? No it doesn't have VR-1 on the bottle. It also doesn't have SM or SN on the bottles. It's been a couple years since I bought this case. I'll be needing some more sorta soon.

Info here on the 3 different VR-1/Racing Oils available;

http://www.valvoline.com/products/consumer-products/motor-oil/racing-motor-oil/

On their specs sheet they state that VR1 has between 1300-1400 ppm. 1300 ppm is within the uncertainty of our measurements, so Valvoline seems to be telling the truth. They're on of the few manufacturers that will give ZDDP concentrations.
For what its worth, Rotella T seems to be the best bag-for-buck. Of course there is more to oil than just ZDDP concentrations...

Posted By: moparfan53

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 02/16/13 06:16 AM

Quote:

I like the Valvoline VR1 oil. No problems here.
I wonder if anyone has heard about the Lucas zinc break-in/ oil additive?

I use the VR1 but have a friend who uses the Lucas additive with regular oil. 4 ounces (1/4 bottle) added to 5 quarts of regular/low zinc oil brings it up to approximately 1126 ppm.

http://www.lucasoil.com/products/display_products.sd?iid=82&catid=9&loc=show&headTitle=

Posted By: 1968RR

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 02/16/13 06:45 AM

I'm by no means any authoritative source on motor oils or tribological science (in fact, I just threw in the word "tribological" to sound a little more credible), but I do have a good understanding of the science behind our results and I will guarantee that they're among the most accurate (if not the most accurate) out there. The oil companies, themselves, probably don't know the ZDDP content of their oils as accurately as these NAA results.
I ran a flat tappet 383 that I bought with high-mileage on it for years in the early 2000s on nothing but the cheapest oil money could buy with no problems. On the other hand, I know, personally, of many people who have had flat tappet motors go bad, with the failure attributed to low ZDDP levels.
Since I built my last 440-based motor, I used Valvoline VR1. It was only on the last oil change that I tried Brad Penn. Some claim to notice that using Brad Penn results in less cam noise, but I haven't really noticed any remarkable difference.

Posted By: 408cuda

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 02/16/13 06:59 AM

Have you ever done any testing on Cen-pe-co? http://www.cen-pe-co.com/ Big in the diesel truck and tractor pulling world. They tell me it's high in zinc, just started using it in a few engines in the shop. Parraffin base sweet crude supposed to be clingy, heavy zddp, refined in US!

Been running VR1 in my 408 since the start. Wont know how good it really is until down the road I reckon.

Posted By: SKR8PN

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 02/16/13 11:59 AM

A few other small items some of you are forgetting.......
First of all, if the engine is already "broken-in" as in has a few thousand miles(or lots more) on it, The ZDDP requirements are a lot less than when you are breaking in a brand new engine. Also some other things to take into consideration, is, cylinder wall to piston clearances,ring tension/end gaps, bore concentricity, camshaft lift/duration and valve spring pressures on a flat tappet type of cam, not to mention the material all these items are made from. ALL of these play a large part in how much ZDDP you do or do not need to keep the engine alive.

Just tossing that out there as food for thought.

Posted By: kdcarman

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 02/16/13 03:27 PM

Does anybody use this:

http://www.zddplus.com/

Posted By: Junky

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 02/16/13 08:07 PM

I've also read that zddp is more critical when running high lift cams. The higher the lift the higher the spring rate causing more force on the lifter to cam lobe...pressure. So by that I gather a stock 318ci 2 bbl engine doesn't need near as much zddp than that of a highly modified 440 with a high lift cam. Something else I've studied is that 1000 to 1200 zddp is plenty for a stockish engine. Personally I run 15w40 Shell Rotella T or Dello400 LE with a half bottle of Red Line lead additive. Dello400 LE has 1300 zddp. With the half bottle of Red Line it's up to approximately 1500 zddp.

BTW, 2 years ago I broke in a high lift cam of 0.518" lobe lift with 15w40 Shell Rotella T and a bottle of STP in the RED bottle. No problems.

They don't make the STP in the red bottle any more.

It is/was high in zddp.

Posted By: 451Mopar

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 02/16/13 10:49 PM

For engine brake-in I have been using VR1 plus the Hughes engines oil additive.

Posted By: 360view

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 02/17/13 12:36 PM

Has anyone read a clear and understandable explanation of why ZDDP is favored in oils for high contact pressures, but MoS2 is favored in greases?

Sample quotes

MoS2 with particle sizes in the range of 1�100 �m is a common dry lubricant. Few alternatives exist that can confer the high lubricity and stability up to 350 �C in oxidizing environments. Sliding friction tests of MoS2 using a pin on disc tester at low loads (0.1�2 N) give friction coefficient values of <0.1.
Molybdenum disulfide is often a component of blends and composites where low friction is sought. A variety of oils and greases are used, because they retain their lubricity even in cases of almost complete oil loss, thus finding a use in critical applications such as aircraft engines.

Examples of some diverse applications of MoS2-based lubricants include two-stroke engines (e.g., motorcycle engines), automotive CV and universal joints, ski waxes,[10] and even some bullets.
.....

The main use of ZDDP is in anti-wear additives to lubricants such as greases, gear oils, and motor oils, which often contain less than 1% of this additive. It has been reported that zinc and phosphorus emissions may damage catalytic converters and standard formulations of lubricating oils for gasoline engines now have reduced amounts of the additive, though diesel engine oils remain at higher levels. Crankcase oils with reduced ZDDP have been cited as causing damage to, or failure of, classic/collector car flat tappet camshafts and lifters which undergo very high boundary layer pressures and/or shear forces at their contact faces, and in other regions such as big-end/main bearings, and piston rings and pins. Roller camshafts are more commonly used to reduce camshaft lobe friction in modern engines.

From
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molybdenum_disulfide#Petroleum_refining

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinc_dithiophosphate

Posted By: Mr. T

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 02/17/13 02:35 PM

http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2010/07/15/comp-cams-adds-muscle-car-and-street-rod-oil/

I have been using this for the last couple of years. I figure it's probably as good as anything else that's out there now.

Posted By: Twostick

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 02/17/13 05:05 PM

Quote:

Has anyone read a clear and understandable explanation of why ZDDP is favored in oils for high contact pressures, but MoS2 is favored in greases?

Sample quotes

MoS2 with particle sizes in the range of 1�100 �m is a common dry lubricant. Few alternatives exist that can confer the high lubricity and stability up to 350 �C in oxidizing environments. Sliding friction tests of MoS2 using a pin on disc tester at low loads (0.1�2 N) give friction coefficient values of <0.1.
Molybdenum disulfide is often a component of blends and composites where low friction is sought. A variety of oils and greases are used, because they retain their lubricity even in cases of almost complete oil loss, thus finding a use in critical applications such as aircraft engines.

Examples of some diverse applications of MoS2-based lubricants include two-stroke engines (e.g., motorcycle engines), automotive CV and universal joints, ski waxes,[10] and even some bullets.
.....

The main use of ZDDP is in anti-wear additives to lubricants such as greases, gear oils, and motor oils, which often contain less than 1% of this additive. It has been reported that zinc and phosphorus emissions may damage catalytic converters and standard formulations of lubricating oils for gasoline engines now have reduced amounts of the additive, though diesel engine oils remain at higher levels. Crankcase oils with reduced ZDDP have been cited as causing damage to, or failure of, classic/collector car flat tappet camshafts and lifters which undergo very high boundary layer pressures and/or shear forces at their contact faces, and in other regions such as big-end/main bearings, and piston rings and pins. Roller camshafts are more commonly used to reduce camshaft lobe friction in modern engines.

From
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molybdenum_disulfide#Petroleum_refining

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinc_dithiophosphate

Not sure what that particle size symbol is but if it represents microns, one reason they don't use MoS2 would be because most of it would be to big to pass thru the oil filter.

Kevin

Posted By: IMGTX

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 02/17/13 05:32 PM

Quote:

Thanks for posting this!

I use the Comp additive with 10w30 Valvoline. I suppose you would divide those numbers by the number of quarts to compare to the others?

I'm wondering too.

Posted By: Big Wedge

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 02/17/13 05:47 PM

This is some really good information. I noticed you did not test the Joe Gibbs brand oil. I would really have been interested in that as I am currently using the HR series in my modified 440.

A couple of years ago, I was fortunate enough to attend a presentation put on by one of the reps from Joe Gibbs oil, Lake Speed Jr. It was a very good presentation highlighting the evolution of the car oil industry. The one comment I recall is the modern oils have too much detergent in them today for our older muscle cars. Even with the addition of the ZDDP product, there is nothing you can do to remove the high level of detergent. I, like most of you was looking into adding the ZDDP into my old cars but after this, I will only use something with the right combination of additives. For now, it happens to be Joe Gibbs oil. I have way too much invested in the modified motor to risk the oil side, even if it costs more.

Garth

Posted By: screamindriver

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 02/17/13 09:49 PM

Quote:

Does anybody use this:

http://www.zddplus.com/

I've used this stuff for a few years now on my engines with the high spring rates and agressive lobes...So far so good..

.I guess if nothing flies apart it's working...

..Seriously though I use it in addition to a high zinc oil so mabe it's overkill mabe not...I wait until it's on sale and snag a bunch of them...

Posted By: 1968RR

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 02/17/13 09:58 PM

Quote:

This is some really good information. I noticed you did not test the Joe Gibbs brand oil. I would really have been interested in that as I am currently using the HR series in my modified 440.

A couple of years ago, I was fortunate enough to attend a presentation put on by one of the reps from Joe Gibbs oil, Lake Speed Jr. It was a very good presentation highlighting the evolution of the car oil industry. The one comment I recall is the modern oils have too much detergent in them today for our older muscle cars. Even with the addition of the ZDDP product, there is nothing you can do to remove the high level of detergent. I, like most of you was looking into adding the ZDDP into my old cars but after this, I will only use something with the right combination of additives. For now, it happens to be Joe Gibbs oil. I have way too much invested in the modified motor to risk the oil side, even if it costs more.

Garth

We really should have tested Gibbs oil, but I didn't think about it until after we had bought all of our samples and set things up.

As far as using the Comp Cams break-in additive goes, the math is real simple. If you use 1 part Comp's additive (9548 ppm) and 9 parts Walmart's SuperTech (675 ppm), you end up with oil that's 1562 ppm ZDDP (that's 675*0.9 + 9548*0.1). Of course, there's more to oil that just ZDDP, so you might not want to use Walmart's oil (although I have a couple of times).

Posted By: Pacnorthcuda

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 02/17/13 10:02 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Does anybody use this:

http://www.zddplus.com/

I've used this stuff for a few years now on my engines with the high spring rates and agressive lobes...So far so good.. .I guess if nothing flies apart it's working... ..Seriously though I use it in addition to a high zinc oil so mabe it's overkill mabe not...I wait until it's on sale and snag a bunch of them...

I've been using it too for the last few years. It's a good product. 71,800 ppm of zinc, and about 50,000 phosphorus.
Rislone has a product on the shelves now..."engine oil supplement with zinc treatment" part number 4405. It's an 11 ounce bottle and is 15,600, one bottle will add 975 ppm to 5.5 quarts of what ever oil you want. It also has the proper ratio of phosphorus too.

Posted By: 1968RR

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 02/17/13 10:05 PM

Unless there are other additives containing phosphorus or zinc, the ratio should be 1 zinc part for every 2 phosphorus parts (the ratio in the ZDDP molecule). Sometimes, when tests results are released, they normalize according to atomic weight, for whatever reason.

Posted By: DynoDave

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 02/18/13 01:34 AM

Quote:

This is some really good information. I noticed you did not test the Joe Gibbs brand oil. I would really have been interested in that as I am currently using the HR series in my modified 440.

A couple of years ago, I was fortunate enough to attend a presentation put on by one of the reps from Joe Gibbs oil, Lake Speed Jr. It was a very good presentation highlighting the evolution of the car oil industry. The one comment I recall is the modern oils have too much detergent in them today for our older muscle cars. Even with the addition of the ZDDP product, there is nothing you can do to remove the high level of detergent. I, like most of you was looking into adding the ZDDP into my old cars but after this, I will only use something with the right combination of additives. For now, it happens to be Joe Gibbs oil. I have way too much invested in the modified motor to risk the oil side, even if it costs more.

Garth

What does "too much detergent" do to an old engine? I can see where adding a high detergent oil to a crusty, carboned-up old engine might be bad, but I wouldn't think most enthusiasts are running highly sludged old engines. Most will have been rebuilt sometime in the last 20 years, and are well maintained.

Posted By: amxautox

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 02/18/13 01:43 AM

It's been mentioned that the high detergent washes off the ZPPD stuff.

Posted By: Pacnorthcuda

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 02/18/13 01:50 AM

Quote:

Quote:

This is some really good information. I noticed you did not test the Joe Gibbs brand oil. I would really have been interested in that as I am currently using the HR series in my modified 440.

A couple of years ago, I was fortunate enough to attend a presentation put on by one of the reps from Joe Gibbs oil, Lake Speed Jr. It was a very good presentation highlighting the evolution of the car oil industry. The one comment I recall is the modern oils have too much detergent in them today for our older muscle cars. Even with the addition of the ZDDP product, there is nothing you can do to remove the high level of detergent. I, like most of you was looking into adding the ZDDP into my old cars but after this, I will only use something with the right combination of additives. For now, it happens to be Joe Gibbs oil. I have way too much invested in the modified motor to risk the oil side, even if it costs more.

Garth

What does "too much detergent" do to an old engine? I can see where adding a high detergent oil to a crusty, carboned-up old engine might be bad, but I wouldn't think most enthusiasts are running highly sludged old engines. Most will have been rebuilt sometime in the last 20 years, and are well maintained.

Detergents affect the surface tension of the oil. When the engine is shut off a high detergent oil will run off surfaces quicker than a low detergent. Picture rain water running off freshly waxed paint compared to clinging like a sheet to unwashed paint.

That means a camshaft is likely to be dryer upon startup, because more of the oil has dripped off.

That's the only downside to diesel oils, they are some of the highest detergent oils available. However, the zinc/phosphorous tends to bond with the metal itself, so it may not, should not, be an issue.

Posted By: YO7_A66

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 02/18/13 03:14 PM

""Brad Penn: 1600-1700 ppm""

Thank you for posting this information.

I was due for an oil change and after reading this post, I found that my local supplier can sell me a case of the Brad Penn Grade-1 Green Oil 5w-30 for $63.

Posted By: YO7_A66

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 02/18/13 10:49 PM

I have been having some email discussions with the Engineer at ZDDP. I told him that I had some extra bottles of ZDDP on my shelf and that I would be adding the Brad Penn Grade 1 oil and I was wanting to know if I needed to add the ZDDP even though I have notes showing that the Z/Ph averages on this oil are 1400-1600ppm (depending on source). He told me that he likes to see street engines stay at 2000ppm or less of Phosphorous and he stated that if my BP oil did average 1400ppm, then I was to ONLY add 1-1.5 ouces of the ZDDP product. This small amount would put me in the 1714/1870 range. He also said that if my average was at the 1600ppm mark, then he said no more than 1 ounce would give me a phos number of around 1900ppm.
I just wanted to throw this out there.

Posted By: dmoore

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 02/19/13 01:50 AM

Been using Brad Penn for years..good to see those numbers..thanks for posting

Posted By: Rug_Trucker

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 02/19/13 02:41 PM

Posted By: 1968RR

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 02/20/13 03:55 AM

I was personally kind of surprised to see Royal Purple with such low ZDDP levels (especially at $10.99/quart). It may be that synthetics don't require as much due to the anti-wear properties of the oil, itself.

Posted By: 360904

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 02/21/13 01:06 PM

http://www.zddplus.com/

Is there a member on here that sell this?

Posted By: 1968RR

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 02/23/13 11:45 PM

Quote:

Which Rotella T? Synthetic or Dino oil?

Oops. I just checked and my previous response was incorrect. The Rotella that was tested was the synthetic T5 oil.

Posted By: kdcarman

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 03/10/13 05:46 PM

Does anyone use diesel oil in their classic?

Posted By: Rug_Trucker

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 03/10/13 06:00 PM

Quote:

Does anyone use diesel oil in their classic?

Yep. 15-40 in the Duster, and in the 79 van. I even run the 10-30 semi syn in my 93 Corolla.

10-30 should be fine for most applications. I had run the 15-40 in the others because I got a killer buy on it for the Cummins which takes 3 gallons.

Posted By: kdcarman

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 03/10/13 06:44 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Does anyone use diesel oil in their classic?

Yep. 15-40 in the Duster, and in the 79 van. I even run the 10-30 semi syn in my 93 Corolla.

10-30 should be fine for most applications. I had run the 15-40 in the others because I got a killer buy on it for the Cummins which takes 3 gallons.

Thanks for this - when you read the ZDDPlus literature they warn against using diesel oil because of the detergents in the oil.

Posted By: Junky

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 03/10/13 11:08 PM

Quote:

Joe Gibbs is another company that says the ultra-high detergent levels in Diesel oils harm the effectiveness of the ZDDP.

R.

Then why is it that so many users of diesel oils have no problems. Guys, many guys over on the race forum use 15W40 "diesel" HD engine oils and have no problems. Is it only Joe Gibbs that says this? If so, maybe to help their sales? Don't you think if this was a fact that it would be well known? But, yet it isn't. Just saying.

Posted By: dodgeboy11

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 03/10/13 11:16 PM

Gibbs didn't get into oils because they were planning on selling oil. They did it because they needed oil that wouldn't fail them in their race engines. Perhaps that's just a line too but I don't think so. I was privileged to sit through one of their conferences and was impressed by their knowledge. Thing is, you can buy their oil or not. That's the beautiful thing about free choice. I however used their break in oil and now I use Valvoline VR1 10w30 in my flat tappet motor and will in all my other engines that I build. The stocker gets Mobil 1.

Posted By: 1968RR

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 03/10/13 11:25 PM

Some detergents can have effects on the ability of ZDDP to act as an anti-wear agent. The problem is that the types of detergents used in specific brands is usually proprietary. Most race oils (Brad Penn, some Valvoline, others) are careful not to use high levels of detergents that will off-set the benefits of ZDDP.
ZDDP certainly isn't the only anti-wear compound in motor oils, but it is one of the few with an element with a nice NAA signature (zinc). It's hard to tell ones with hydrogen, carbon, etc. from the oil itself.

Posted By: Pacnorthcuda

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 03/11/13 12:08 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Joe Gibbs is another company that says the ultra-high detergent levels in Diesel oils harm the effectiveness of the ZDDP.

R.

Then why is it that so many users of diesel oils have no problems. Guys, many guys over on the race forum use 15W40 "diesel" HD engine oils and have no problems. Is it only Joe Gibbs that says this? If so, maybe to help their sales? Don't you think if this was a fact that it would be well known? But, yet it isn't. Just saying.

Actually it IS talked about, and has been for years. To me high detergent is a MINOR issue. Low zinc/phosphorus is a MAJOR issue. To answer your main question, DELO oils are better than standard oils, but they are not the best choice. They do work, but if the detergent level was lower they would be even better.

I've used them in the past, but no more. I put a zddp additive into standard valvoline SM rated oil.

Posted By: DaveRS23

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 03/11/13 12:29 AM

Over on another forum they are talking about Valvoline VR1 Racing being on sale at O'Reilly's. And they said something about the Racing VR1 being discontinued.

There was a response that the biggest difference between the VR1s was that the Racing did not have the level of detergents that the other had. If I can find it again, I will post Valvoline's answer about the detergent levels.

Posted By: Junky

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 03/11/13 05:16 PM

Quote:

Some detergents can have effects on the ability of ZDDP to act as an anti-wear agent. The problem is that the types of detergents used in specific brands is usually proprietary. Most race oils (Brad Penn, some Valvoline, others) are careful not to use high levels of detergents that will off-set the benefits of ZDDP.
ZDDP certainly isn't the only anti-wear compound in motor oils, but it is one of the few with an element with a nice NAA signature (zinc). It's hard to tell ones with hydrogen, carbon, etc. from the oil itself.

I guess I'm the kind of person that would like to see factual data supporting the alleged problem with high detergents breaking down the effect of zinc. I've been running the "diesel" oils now for 13 years without a problem. That's with two new cams which I changed only for performance, not due to failure.

Posted By: Rug_Trucker

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 03/12/13 08:46 AM

I guess the high ZDDP in the diesel oil destroys itself?

Posted By: cjskotni

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 03/12/13 01:24 PM

So I hate to hijack this thread but has anyone here ever tested the STP oil treatment for its ZDDP content? It says on the bottle that it contains it and somebody online had emailed them about it and they simply said that "adding 16oz of the STP to 4-5qts modern oil will restore to the ZDDP content to what is was in years past" (paraphrasing).

Has anyone tested this or had any long term experience with this? I am running this as my ZDDP additive in my Charger (street car) and so far, so good. Cam still looks fine after couple hundred miles + break-in.

I would be interested if this is a viable alternative as STP is like $2 a bottle as opposed to $10-15 for the pricier stuff or $10+/qt for the already made quarts. I have no problem shelling out the money for these pricier options if they are needed for a street car. I am not winding my engine past 5000 RPM for any amount of time or really laying on it like a race motor.

Just curious...

Posted By: MoparforLife

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 03/12/13 01:37 PM

I still have several bottles of the original EOS. I also believe that on a mild cam with light to moderate spring pressures that a person can use oils with less zinc after the engines have been run for a few thousand miles and well broke in.

Posted By: A990

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 03/12/13 08:16 PM

Quote:

Some detergents can have effects on the ability of ZDDP to act as an anti-wear agent. The problem is that the types of detergents used in specific brands is usually proprietary. Most race oils (Brad Penn, some Valvoline, others) are careful not to use high levels of detergents that will off-set the benefits of ZDDP.
ZDDP certainly isn't the only anti-wear compound in motor oils, but it is one of the few with an element with a nice NAA signature (zinc). It's hard to tell ones with hydrogen, carbon, etc. from the oil itself.

Since detergent is not good, could a quart of 30w be used with detergent oil to knock down the detergent, and retain the ZDDP?

This is a great thread.

Posted By: Pacnorthcuda

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 03/12/13 08:20 PM

Quote:

So I hate to hijack this thread but has anyone here ever tested the STP oil treatment for its ZDDP content? It says on the bottle that it contains it and somebody online had emailed them about it and they simply said that "adding 16oz of the STP to 4-5qts modern oil will restore to the ZDDP content to what is was in years past" (paraphrasing).

Has anyone tested this or had any long term experience with this? I am running this as my ZDDP additive in my Charger (street car) and so far, so good. Cam still looks fine after couple hundred miles + break-in.

I would be interested if this is a viable alternative as STP is like $2 a bottle as opposed to $10-15 for the pricier stuff or $10+/qt for the already made quarts. I have no problem shelling out the money for these pricier options if they are needed for a street car. I am not winding my engine past 5000 RPM for any amount of time or really laying on it like a race motor.

Just curious...

Yes there is a Blackstone or Staveley test floating around somewhere. STP RED came in at JUST under 3000PPM (it was 29xx) and BLUE was about 2000. That means its only good for a SLIGHT bump (about 100PPM) in a crankcase. Do the math. ZDDPlus tested at 71,200ppm (keep in mind its only a 4oz bottle)
I am currently using "Rislone engine oil suppliment with zinc" which supposedly has 15,600ppm and comes in a 11 ounce bottle, available at Oreilly's for $8.50.

Posted By: 67Satty

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 03/12/13 08:29 PM

I'm kinda scratching my head here and wondering why there is still so much hand-wringing and so many people adding potions and buying the expensive Joe Gibbs and Brad Penn stuff when it has now been shown by the independent analysis (for those who didn't believe all the racers posting here or the Valvoline website) that you can just use the inexpensive, over-the-counter Valvoline VR1 and have more than enough ZDDP. As far as engine break-in, just use the Comp Cams or similar break-in oil or additive. Am I missing something?

Posted By: A990

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 03/12/13 08:42 PM

VR-1 is being discontinued. It's biggest feature was lower detergent, and thats why I wonder about a straight-weight oil.

Posted By: dogdays

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 03/13/13 12:36 AM

About five years ago, before Dwayne Porter moved his shop, he told of the failure of a brand new engine, during dyno runs, that he'd put together himself and was using the Diesel oil of that time. I remember because it was quite counter to the thinking of just about anyone else posting about their favorite Diesel oils.

R.

Posted By: dogdays

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 03/13/13 12:49 AM

The VR-1 being discontinued myth strikes again. This was also being reported two years ago. Valvoline's current website lists three racing oils, the regular VR-1, Syynthetic VR-1 and the low detergent not street legal racing oil. You can argue between yourselves whether it is called VR-1 or not, but they are still all on the website.

R.

Posted By: 500ciDuster

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 03/13/13 01:19 AM

My have a connection with an oil compmany that may be able to blend an off road oil, let me know what specs would be best and I'll see what I can do.

Posted By: 62maxwgn

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 03/13/13 01:46 AM

Quote:

My have a connection with an oil compmany that may be able to blend an off road oil, let me know what specs would be best and I'll see what I can do.

I wouldn't hold my breath on that one !!

Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 03/13/13 02:04 AM

Quote:

My have a connection with an oil compmany that may be able to blend an off road oil, let me know what specs would be best and I'll see what I can do.

There's a bunch of that stuff already on the market.

At least one of the local bulk oil companies offers "oil for vintage vehicles". I think even in bulk quantities too.

There's tons of private label stuff that blended for wholesalers and retailers.

Posted By: 408cuda

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 03/13/13 05:16 AM

Again, perhaps this is worth a look CENPECO

I buy it from a local distributor who delivers it to my shop for about what any good average qt of oil goes for. Have a few engines with it in them but nothing pulled down yet. I will say it has a cling to it like no other I have used, even hot with miles on it.

Said it before, VR1 in my 408 with pretty quick ramp solid FT since it's start a few years ago but only time will tell how good it is.

Posted By: Rug_Trucker

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 03/13/13 07:46 AM

At one time STP made an oil stabilizer. I bought all I could get my hands on. 1qt (30W?) + zddp

Posted By: Junky

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 03/13/13 07:03 PM

Just got off the phone with Chevron tech about "diesel" oils and the detergents in their diesel oil. The detergents are not like Tide or Ajax laundry soap or whatever which wash the surface of something solid. Their detergent is formulated to suspend soot so there is no build-up. The tech guy assured me that there is no harm done running diesel oil in a gas, flat tappet cam engine concerning zinc or anything else. It is formulated to run in both diesel and gas engines. All Fleet Oil

Besides, it makes no sense to me for an oil company to put out an oil with relatively high levels of zinc, then add a detergent to basically wash it away from metal surfaces, now does it. That wouldn't bode well for their product, and Chevron Oils are high quality as well as others.

So again, show me hard data that shows diesel oil "washing" away the effectiveness of zinc in a gas engine.

Posted By: 1968RR

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 03/14/13 12:01 AM

Quote:

I'm kinda scratching my head here and wondering why there is still so much hand-wringing and so many people adding potions and buying the expensive Joe Gibbs and Brad Penn stuff when it has now been shown by the independent analysis (for those who didn't believe all the racers posting here or the Valvoline website) that you can just use the inexpensive, over-the-counter Valvoline VR1 and have more than enough ZDDP. As far as engine break-in, just use the Comp Cams or similar break-in oil or additive. Am I missing something?

The tests show that VR-1 is a fine oil to use if you're concerned about ZDDP. But where I live, the Brad Penn oil costs the same as the VR-1 oil ($5.99/quart).

Posted By: 1968RR

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 03/14/13 12:07 AM

Quote:

Just got off the phone with Chevron tech about "diesel" oils and the detergents in their diesel oil. The detergents are not like Tide or Ajax laundry soap or whatever which wash the surface of something solid. Their detergent is formulated to suspend soot so there is no build-up. The tech guy assured me that there is no harm done running diesel oil in a gas, flat tappet cam engine concerning zinc or anything else. It is formulated to run in both diesel and gas engines. All Fleet Oil

Besides, it makes no sense to me for an oil company to put out an oil with relatively high levels of zinc, then add a detergent to basically wash it away from metal surfaces, now does it. That wouldn't bode well for their product, and Chevron Oils are high quality as well as others.

So again, show me hard data that shows diesel oil "washing" away the effectiveness of zinc in a gas engine.

Notice that in my post, I said that SOME detergents can lower the effectiveness of ZDDP. There a few articles in tribological journals that I've read about the subject. However, the guys who make Rotella probably are well-aware of which types of detergents will or won't alter the effectiveness of the ZDDP and I'm sure they stay away from ones that'll result in adverse effects. I wouldn't hesitate to use the Rotella T5 that we analyzed in my car.

Posted By: Junky

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 03/14/13 02:01 AM

My posts were at no one in particular. Yes, and you did say "some". What my comments are pointed at are statements like this:

"It's been mentioned that the high detergent washes off the ZPPD stuff."

And this:

Detergents affect the surface tension of the oil. When the engine is shut off a high detergent oil will run off surfaces quicker than a low detergent. Picture rain water running off freshly waxed paint compared to clinging like a sheet to unwashed paint."

And this:

"Joe Gibbs is another company that says the ultra-high detergent levels in Diesel oils harm the effectiveness of the ZDDP."

With no test data or source (web link) to back up their statements.

Posted By: Pacnorthcuda

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 03/14/13 02:20 AM

Quote:

My posts were at no one in particular. Yes, and you did say "some". What my comments are pointed at are statements like this:

"It's been mentioned that the high detergent washes off the ZPPD stuff."

And this:

Detergents affect the surface tension of the oil. When the engine is shut off a high detergent oil will run off surfaces quicker than a low detergent. Picture rain water running off freshly waxed paint compared to clinging like a sheet to unwashed paint."

And this:

"Joe Gibbs is another company that says the ultra-high detergent levels in Diesel oils harm the effectiveness of the ZDDP."

With no test data or source (web link) to back up their statements.

Junky, you raise good points, but keep in mind...DELO oils were not engineered for our flat tapped gasoline V8s. Ive spoken directly with several Chevron engineers (I've purchased over a million gallons of DELO 15w40 over the years) who tell me the zinc in their oil is for the punishment that the small end of the rod endures during the uber high compression of a diesel. The detergent is there to keep soot in suspension.

Gasoline engines have different requirements. Yes, DELO oils ARE good, but for our use, I believe there are better answers.

BTW, did you know Chevron DELO is a synthetic blend (at least technically--thank you Castrol)? It just hasn't been marketed that way. It's about to though---DELO XLE ( as opposed to LE) is just about to hit the streets.

Posted By: Junky

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 03/14/13 05:27 AM

Quote:

Quote:

My posts were at no one in particular. Yes, and you did say "some". What my comments are pointed at are statements like this:

"It's been mentioned that the high detergent washes off the ZPPD stuff."

And this:

Detergents affect the surface tension of the oil. When the engine is shut off a high detergent oil will run off surfaces quicker than a low detergent. Picture rain water running off freshly waxed paint compared to clinging like a sheet to unwashed paint."

And this:

"Joe Gibbs is another company that says the ultra-high detergent levels in Diesel oils harm the effectiveness of the ZDDP."

With no test data or source (web link) to back up their statements.

Junky, you raise good points, but keep in mind...DELO oils were not engineered for our flat tapped gasoline V8s. Ive spoken directly with several Chevron engineers (I've purchased over a million gallons of DELO 15w40 over the years) who tell me the zinc in their oil is for the punishment that the small end of the rod endures during the uber high compression of a diesel. The detergent is there to keep soot in suspension.

Gasoline engines have different requirements. Yes, DELO oils ARE good, but for our use, I believe there are better answers.

BTW, did you know Chevron DELO is a synthetic blend (at least technically--thank you Castrol)? It just hasn't been marketed that way. It's about to though---DELO XLE ( as opposed to LE) is just about to hit the streets.

You said: "The detergent is there to keep soot in suspension.".

Exactly, it doesn't wash away the zinc. It has no effect on zinc according to the engineer I spoke with today at Chevron. Yes, there is better motor oils to use and worse. Saying that does not mean that Heavy Duty Motor Oil aka Diesel Oil is bad to run. It's an option. Just like some will only run Shell, or Valvoline, or Chevron and so forth.

It rubs me the wrong way when people come in here and start making statements that are assumptions, or hearsay, or opinion or whatever but state it as fact. Who knows what Joe Gibbs industry really has to say about the subject? No one seems to really know but are ready to tell everyone.

Still no supported test data or sources submitted.

Carry on.

Posted By: cjskotni

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 03/14/13 01:10 PM

Quote:

Quote:

So I hate to hijack this thread but has anyone here ever tested the STP oil treatment for its ZDDP content? It says on the bottle that it contains it and somebody online had emailed them about it and they simply said that "adding 16oz of the STP to 4-5qts modern oil will restore to the ZDDP content to what is was in years past" (paraphrasing).

Has anyone tested this or had any long term experience with this? I am running this as my ZDDP additive in my Charger (street car) and so far, so good. Cam still looks fine after couple hundred miles + break-in.

I would be interested if this is a viable alternative as STP is like $2 a bottle as opposed to $10-15 for the pricier stuff or $10+/qt for the already made quarts. I have no problem shelling out the money for these pricier options if they are needed for a street car. I am not winding my engine past 5000 RPM for any amount of time or really laying on it like a race motor.

Just curious...

Yes there is a Blackstone or Staveley test floating around somewhere. STP RED came in at JUST under 3000PPM (it was 29xx) and BLUE was about 2000. That means its only good for a SLIGHT bump (about 100PPM) in a crankcase. Do the math. ZDDPlus tested at 71,200ppm (keep in mind its only a 4oz bottle)
I am currently using "Rislone engine oil suppliment with zinc" which supposedly has 15,600ppm and comes in a 11 ounce bottle, available at Oreilly's for $8.50.

Thanks for the information! I was looking for something a bit more reasonable and that I don't have to order and wait for. I went to my local Advace Auto and picked up a container yesterday!

Posted By: dogdays

Calling Junky - 03/14/13 05:15 PM

Junky, follow the link to the Joe Gibbs webpage and see what you think they mean.

http://www.drivenracingoil.com/dro/zinc-vs-detergent

R.

Posted By: Junky

Re: Calling Junky - 03/14/13 08:02 PM

Quote:

Junky, follow the link to the Joe Gibbs webpage and see what you think they mean.

http://www.drivenracingoil.com/dro/zinc-vs-detergent

R.

Doesn't say much of anything except for a nice ad for Joe Gibbs products. Lots of broad-brushing. Never comes out and says anything specific.

Only thing they state clearly is:

"Joe Gibbs Driven BR Break-In oils utilize the correct balance of anti-wear additives and detergents, so you don�t need to buy expensive additives to try to �fix� a low zinc (ZDDP) oil."

So, Joe Gibbs' oil is the only motor oil with the correct balance of anti-wear additives and detergents?

That can be said of any oil company's product if they so want to say it in an ad. Like my oil is better than yours.

The ad proves absolutely nothing. It's just an ad.

How people can get out of this ad that diesel oils "wash" away zinc is beyond me.

Posted By: 62maxwgn

Re: Calling Junky - 03/14/13 08:41 PM

Pulled intake to change gasket.Just under 12K miles with Brad Penn 15-40,no other additives,cam still looks new.

Attached picture 7625926-P3140566.JPG

Posted By: 1968RR

Re: Calling Junky - 03/14/13 09:24 PM

Detergents don't wash away ZDDP and anyone who says otherwise either doesn't know what they're talking about or is doing a really poor job of trying to explain a chemical process in laymen's terms. Some detergents (and they may not be the ones used in diesel oils like Rotella) can decrease the effectiveness of ZDDP. For example, there's been a study (see link at end of this post) that has shown "conclusively that in the presence of [...] calcium sulfonate [(a detergent)] under sliding conditions, ZDDPs do not form long-chain polyphosphates that have been associated with antiwear action." So detergents can make a difference, but who's to say what detergents are being used in what oils (mostly proprietary information).
For the record, I agree with what you're saying Junky, I'm just trying to explain where people might get this whole notion that detergents "wash" away ZDDP.

Article abstract: http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10402000308982660

Posted By: Junky

Re: Calling Junky - 03/14/13 11:47 PM

1968RR, thanks for your input. A voice of sanity.

Posted By: Aero426

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 08/07/13 05:41 PM

The Mobil 1 15W-50 (top of page 2) looks very good. 1300 ppm Zn and 1200 ppm of P.

Mobil 1 Product Guide

Posted By: CompSyn

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 08/07/13 09:06 PM

The American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM) sets the industry standardized test methods for determining among other things additive elements, wear metals, and contaminates in lubricating oils. In this case, the ASTM D5185 otherwise known as Inductively Coupled Plasma Atomic Emission Spectrometry (ICP-AES) is where zinc and phosphorous content is commonly tested and reported by the industry.

To read the ASTM test methodology for (ICP-AES), click on the ASTM D5185 link � HERE

Posted By: CompSyn

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 08/07/13 09:22 PM

Quote:

Brad Penn: 1600-1700 ppm

Brad Penn utilizes the ASTM qualified lab, Southwest Research Institute (SwRI), for additive element testing and reporting. There again, SwRI uses the industry standardized test method, ASTM D5185 (ICP), to determine zinc content of lubricant oils.

As such, Penn Grade 1 oils have between 1540-to-1565 ppm zinc content.

For more, click on Brad Penn�s link - HERE

For more on Southwest Research Institute (SwRI), click on the link - HERE

Posted By: CompSyn

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 08/07/13 09:36 PM

Quote:

Rotella T: 1200-1300 ppm

The independent watchdog group, Petroleum Quality Institute of America (PQIA), provides information to consumers regarding lubricant quality. As such, PQIA purchases various lubricants at random and sends blind samples to Southwest Research Institute (SwRI) for testing, there again, utilizing the industry standardized test method, ASTM D5185 (ICP).

Here is what PQIA recently reported for Shell Rotella T Triple Protection, SAE 15W-40, API CJ-4/SM.

Phosphorus 965ppm
Zinc 1098ppm

For more, click on this link - HERE

Posted By: CompSyn

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 08/07/13 09:44 PM

Quote:

Royal Purple: 800-900ppm

Here is what Petroleum Quality Institute of America (PQIA) recently reported for:

Royal Purple Synthetic Oil 5W-30 API SN ILSAC GF-5.

Phosphorus 706ppm
Zinc 837ppm

For more, click on this link - HERE

- AND -

Royal Purple, API SL, SAE 10W-30.

Phosphorus 808ppm
Zinc 876ppm

For more, click on this link - HERE

Posted By: CompSyn

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 08/07/13 10:06 PM

Quote:

Junky, you raise good points, but keep in mind...DELO oils were not engineered for our flat tapped gasoline V8s. Ive spoken directly with several Chevron engineers (I've purchased over a million gallons of DELO 15w40 over the years) who tell me the zinc in their oil is for the punishment that the small end of the rod endures during the uber high compression of a diesel. The detergent is there to keep soot in suspension.

Gasoline engines have different requirements. Yes, DELO oils ARE good, but for our use, I believe there are better answers.

BTW, did you know Chevron DELO is a synthetic blend (at least technically--thank you Castrol)? It just hasn't been marketed that way. It's about to though---DELO XLE ( as opposed to LE) is just about to hit the streets.

Here is what Petroleum Quality Institute of America (PQIA) recently reported for: Chevron Delo� 400LE SAE 15W-40, API CJ-4/CI-4 Plus/SM.

Phosphorus 1312ppm
Zinc 1490ppm

For more, click on this link - HERE

What Chevron engineers? Who did you talk to?

This is what Chevron says right in their Product Data Sheet:

Quote:

APPLICATIONS

Delo 400 LE SAE 15W-40 is a mixed fleet motor oil
recommended for naturally aspirated and turbocharged
four-stroke diesel engines and four-stroke gasoline
engines in which the API CJ-4 service category and
SAE 15W-40 viscosity grade are recommended. It is
formulated for engines operating under severe service
and a wide range of climatic conditions.

- AND -

Quote:

Delo 400 LE SAE 15W-40 is approved for: API Service Categories CJ-4, CI-4 PLUS, CI-4,
CH-4, SM, SL

Seriously folks, Chevron Delo 400 LE is enginered for "mixed fleet" diesel and gasoline applications, see also API (SM) and (SL). Let's let the diesel detergent myths stop here. It's a Heavy Duty Engine Oil (HDEO) for heavy duty applications.

For more, Chevron DELO 400 LE SAE 15W-40 Product Data Sheet at this link - HERE

Posted By: strokerchall

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 08/08/13 02:02 AM

Quote:

Joe Gibbs is another company that says the ultra-high detergent levels in Diesel oils harm the effectiveness of the ZDDP.

R.

i was told this by a guy at NAPA when I bought JOE GIBBS ,my first choice was VR-1 racing oil but he talkled me out of it after i asked if i could ad zinc

Posted By: ademon

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 08/08/13 02:14 AM

The new bottles of VR1 state not for extended use in vehicles with cat converter

Posted By: Pacnorthcuda

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 08/08/13 02:25 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Junky, you raise good points, but keep in mind...DELO oils were not engineered for our flat tapped gasoline V8s. Ive spoken directly with several Chevron engineers (I've purchased over a million gallons of DELO 15w40 over the years) who tell me the zinc in their oil is for the punishment that the small end of the rod endures during the uber high compression of a diesel. The detergent is there to keep soot in suspension.

Gasoline engines have different requirements. Yes, DELO oils ARE good, but for our use, I believe there are better answers.

BTW, did you know Chevron DELO is a synthetic blend (at least technically--thank you Castrol)? It just hasn't been marketed that way. It's about to though---DELO XLE ( as opposed to LE) is just about to hit the streets.

Here is what Petroleum Quality Institute of America (PQIA) recently reported for: Chevron Delo� 400LE SAE 15W-40, API CJ-4/CI-4 Plus/SM.

Phosphorus 1312ppm
Zinc 1490ppm

For more, click on this link - HERE

What Chevron engineers? Who did you talk to?

This is what Chevron says right in their Product Data Sheet:

Quote:

APPLICATIONS

Delo 400 LE SAE 15W-40 is a mixed fleet motor oil
recommended for naturally aspirated and turbocharged
four-stroke diesel engines and four-stroke gasoline
engines in which the API CJ-4 service category and
SAE 15W-40 viscosity grade are recommended. It is
formulated for engines operating under severe service
and a wide range of climatic conditions.

- AND -

Quote:

Delo 400 LE SAE 15W-40 is approved for: API Service Categories CJ-4, CI-4 PLUS, CI-4,
CH-4, SM, SL

Seriously folks, Chevron Delo 400 LE is enginered for "mixed fleet" diesel and gasoline applications, see also API (SM) and (SL). Let's let the diesel detergent myths stop here. It's a Heavy Duty Engine Oil (HDEO) for heavy duty applications.

For more, Chevron DELO 400 LE SAE 15W-40 Product Data Sheet at this link - HERE

Comp: you DO know that DELO stands for "diesel engine lubricating oil" right?

Well now you do. I said they ARE good oils, just very high in detergent for our applications. There are better choices.....ummmm I think you of all would agree with that.

Posted By: CompSyn

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 08/08/13 03:22 AM

Quote:

Comp: you DO know that DELO stands for "diesel engine lubricating oil" right?
Well now you do. I said they ARE good oils, just very high in detergent for our applications. There are better choices.....ummmm I think you of all would agree with that.

And now YOU know Chevron actually recommends DELO for API (SM) and (SL) rated gasoline engines. So now you can stop spreading the tripe that it's not well suited for gasoline engines when it's engineered to work equally as well in both diesel and gasoline applications.

Old design carbureted V8s aren't the cleanest running engines as where more robust detergents can actually be a plus. But you're right, DELO is not my first choice in engine oil.

Posted By: Pacnorthcuda

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 08/08/13 03:33 AM

Quote:

[quotes. So now you can stop spreading the tripe that it's not well suited for gasoline engines when it's engineered to work equally as well in both diesel and gasoline applications.
:

That is flat out wrong. DELO was NOT "engineered to work equally as we'll in both diesel and gasoline applications" it was engineered for diesel applications period. As stated, I've purchased over a million gallons over the last 12 years. PM me for more info. Chevron realized a lucrative secondary market after its introduction and the marketers took over. "Tripe". Give me a freekin break!

Posted By: CompSyn

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 08/08/13 04:28 AM

Quote:

That is flat out wrong. DELO was NOT "engineered to work equally as we'll in both diesel and gasoline applications" it was engineered for diesel applications period. As stated, I've purchased over a million gallons over the last 12 years. PM me for more info. Chevron realized a lucrative secondary market after its introduction and the marketers took over. "Tripe". Give me a freekin break!

Pac, lots of people use mixed-fleet Heavy Duty Engine Oil (HDEO) in their gasoline powered applications and report stellar Used Oil Analysis reports. Irregardless of what DELO "WAS" twelve years ago, today it's a mixed fleet HDEO and Chevron's Product Data Sheet reflects this. You've decided it's not the first choice for your Muscle Car, that's fine, but HDEO remains a safe, affordable and readily available option for many. Sorry I struck a nerve my friend.

Posted By: Pacnorthcuda

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 08/08/13 04:33 AM

fair enough Comp. as a trivial Chevron factoid...when you make it to retirement, they call it "reaching the end of the pipe"

Posted By: Yellow Fever

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 08/08/13 10:49 AM

I bought the 10 pack of the ZDDPLUS off Ebay and I found this:

http://www.zddplus.com/imgs/ZDDPlusTestResults2.pdf

I'll use that and keep using Rotella.

Posted By: DZJim

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 08/08/13 01:13 PM

Quote:

I bought the 10 pack of the ZDDPLUS off Ebay and I found this:

http://www.zddplus.com/imgs/ZDDPlusTestResults2.pdf

I'll use that and keep using Rotella.

Looks like the "test report" has been "embellished" a little. Chemist would not take it upon himself to comment upon "...optimum range for high-performance flat tappet engines..." Whole thing strikes me as ad hype...

Posted By: Rug_Trucker

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 08/08/13 03:14 PM

Quote:

I bought the 10 pack of the ZDDPLUS off Ebay and I found this:

http://www.zddplus.com/imgs/ZDDPlusTestResults2.pdf

I'll use that and keep using Rotella.

At what point are you going to sludge up the motor? When I pulled the pan off my 32K mile Duster it had grey tetraethyl lead in the pan, and nasty Pennzoil goo. I think it was Pennzoil, that was the sticker on the door.

Posted By: 62maxwgn

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 08/08/13 03:34 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Joe Gibbs is another company that says the ultra-high detergent levels in Diesel oils harm the effectiveness of the ZDDP.

R.

i was told this by a guy at NAPA when I bought JOE GIBBS ,my first choice was VR-1 racing oil but he talkled me out of it after i asked if i could ad zinc

I'm "assuming" Joe Gibb would rather have you buy his oil and I'll bet the guy at NAPA is related to GG,if he said it,it has to be correct !!

I'll stick to my Brad Penn!

Posted By: 1968RR

Re: ZDDP oil analysis results - 08/08/13 05:15 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Brad Penn: 1600-1700 ppm

Brad Penn utilizes the ASTM qualified lab, Southwest Research Institute (SwRI), for additive element testing and reporting. There again, SwRI uses the industry standardized test method, ASTM D5185 (ICP), to determine zinc content of lubricant oils.

As such, Penn Grade 1 oils have between 1540-to-1565 ppm zinc content.

For more, click on Brad Penn�s link - HERE

For more on Southwest Research Institute (SwRI), click on the link - HERE

SWRI does good research and is a reputable institute, but ICP-AES simply isn't as accurate as NAA (it's only the "industry standard" because NAA typically requires access to a nuclear reactor). You will literally not find a single paper in a peer-reviewed scientific journal that claims that ICP-AES is a more sensitive method of trace element analysis than NAA.