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Re: 440 stroke in a 383. Good idea? Post your combo/opinion [Re: Winchester 73] #1387245 02/14/13 07:07 PM 02/14/13 07:07 PM
Joined: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,177 ill D dennismopar73 top fuel
dennismopar73 top fuel D Joined: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,177 ill	You can do line bore, that is an option, but for the strengh you normaly will cut the crank! My 440 crank cost me $100 bucks for the 10 / 10 and another $100 to turn down the counters, rods resized and new bolts $125 bought new OLD set of venolias 60 over, off ebay for $60 bucks they where brand new just never used!! the 440 steel crank was laying around so made use of it, so my rotator I'm in cheap!! have set of O T B Eddy R P M s , Racer Brown stx 21 Running 10.40s

Re: 440 stroke in a 383. Good idea? Post your combo/opinion [Re: dennismopar73] #1387246 02/14/13 07:24 PM 02/14/13 07:24 PM
Joined: Mar 2012 Posts: 168 Washington State, USA W Winchester 73 member
Winchester 73 member W Joined: Mar 2012 Posts: 168 Washington State, USA	that stroker sounds cheaper than my 383

Re: 440 stroke in a 383. Good idea? Post your combo/opinion [Re: dennismopar73] #1387247 02/14/13 07:39 PM 02/14/13 07:39 PM
Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 48 PA B Belvedere500ci OP member
Belvedere500ci OP member B Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 48 PA	dennismopar73, What are you using for a cam? Flat tappet or Roller? What are your 60 foots? 4 link, Ladder bar car? 1967 Plymouth Belvedere II 383 1968 Plymouth Barracuda 383 2005 Ram 3500 5.9Diesel 1979 Dodge Power Wagon 360

Re: 440 stroke in a 383. Good idea? Post your combo/opinion [Re: Winchester 73] #1387248 02/14/13 07:44 PM 02/14/13 07:44 PM
Joined: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,177 ill D dennismopar73 top fuel
dennismopar73 top fuel D Joined: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,177 ill	well it is pretty cheap!! But Im intot he crank right bought couple 440 that had steel cranks in them which I still have 1 , getting them turned is $100 here, and that guy i know will turn down counter s for $100 ,, so, even if you get a crank for say $125 get the rest done cheap your into it cheap, I just reused my rods had them resized and ARPs bolts put in good to go, never bush the rods, because there is no HP there!! and I think it makes them weaker in the stock form, bore n hone is $125 , boil install freeze plugs another $80 I paid extra for the decking and line hone , I have more $ in my heads than I do the whole motor!!

Re: 440 stroke in a 383. Good idea? Post your combo/opinion [Re: dogdays] #1387249 02/15/13 11:47 AM 02/15/13 11:47 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,020 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,020 U.S.S.A.	Quote: Mancini Overstock again, 4.15" stroke 383 main Eagle 4340 crank $500. Yeah, it's 10 under on both rods and mains, but so what? http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/384st6bo10ea.html R. The problem with that crank is there isn't a rod available to use the common 1.32 shelf stock piston , rod needs to be roughly 6.580. the 4.15 crqank is ok for an RB build but low deck builds the 4.25 crank is a better choice.

Re: 440 stroke in a 383. Good idea? Post your combo/opinion [Re: Winchester 73] #1387250 02/15/13 11:49 AM 02/15/13 11:49 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,020 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,020 U.S.S.A.	Quote: so nobody line bores?i thaught there was some debate as to it being better than grinding the crank? anyone using a cast crank? You can do that with a 400 block , but a 383 has thinner main webbing and it's not a good idea. 440Jim line bored his 400 block out to RB main size for a stronger crank, better main bearing selection and better crank selection at the time he did it .

Re: 440 stroke in a 383. Good idea? Post your combo/opinion [Re: JohnRR] #1387251 02/15/13 12:56 PM 02/15/13 12:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,376 D dogdays I Live Here
dogdays I Live Here D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,376	Well, JRR, yer right, save money on that crank and you'll spend it on rods or pistons. Bummer! Regarding block and crank relative strengths, it seems to me that the stock blocks are failing before the cranks get into trouble. So it seems counterproductive to weaken a block that's already the weak link, in order to protect a crank that, even turned down, is the stronger link. R.

Re: 440 stroke in a 383. Good idea? Post your combo/opinion [Re: dogdays] #1387252 02/15/13 01:10 PM 02/15/13 01:10 PM
Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 4,319 Puyallup, WA S StealthWedge67 master
StealthWedge67 master S Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 4,319 Puyallup, WA	Quote: Well, JRR, yer right, save money on that crank and you'll spend it on rods or pistons. Bummer! Regarding block and crank relative strengths, it seems to me that the stock blocks are failing before the cranks get into trouble. So it seems counterproductive to weaken a block that's already the weak link, in order to protect a crank that, even turned down, is the stronger link. R. I agree with this concept. The block obviously gets weaker when you bore the mainline, as the bearing saddle gets closer to the thinner parts of the main webbing. You'd have to show me how a crank gets weaker by cutting the main journals down, though. I could be wrong, but typically a smaller diameter of the same material is going to be stronger than a larger diameter. In any case, I would suggest that the most cost effective way to build a stout rotating assembly is going to be to find a good forged RB crank and make the modifications there. Add a good set of newer H-beam rods with ARP capscrews (I'm not a fan of using 40 year old stock rods in a performance build), and a set of forged slugs. Makes for a pretty stout rotating assembly at a very reasonable pricetag. LemonWedge - Street heavy / Strip ready - 11.07 @ 120

Re: 440 stroke in a 383. Good idea? Post your combo/opinion [Re: StealthWedge67] #1387253 02/15/13 01:25 PM 02/15/13 01:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,376 D dogdays I Live Here
dogdays I Live Here D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,376	A smaller diameter is weaker both in bending and torsion, no way around that. And it's not a direct proportion but something like the ratio cubed. One can use a stronger material but because steel has a relatively constant spring rate (modulus of elasticity) that only means it won't break as easily, it'll still deflect the same amount regardless of the alloy. If crankshaft strength were an issue it'd be worth considering. However, the crank, even with smaller journals, seems to be stronger than it needs to be. R.

Re: 440 stroke in a 383. Good idea? Post your combo/opinion [Re: dogdays] #1387254 02/15/13 01:42 PM 02/15/13 01:42 PM
Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 48 PA B Belvedere500ci OP member
Belvedere500ci OP member B Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 48 PA	None this answer my questions. Its going off in a totally different direction. My 383 is all ready, that's the block I'm building. I'm either going to put it back stock stroke or 440 stroke. Who out there has a 431-438? 1967 Plymouth Belvedere II 383 1968 Plymouth Barracuda 383 2005 Ram 3500 5.9Diesel 1979 Dodge Power Wagon 360

Re: 440 stroke in a 383. Good idea? Post your combo/opinion [Re: Belvedere500ci] #1387255 02/15/13 01:47 PM 02/15/13 01:47 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,020 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,020 U.S.S.A.	Quote: None this answer my questions. Its going off in a totally different direction. My 383 is all ready, that's the block I'm building. I'm either going to put it back stock stroke or 440 stroke. Who out there has a 431-438? I was going to build one and changed my mind and went bigger , 3.9 stroke.

Re: 440 stroke in a 383. Good idea? Post your combo/opinion [Re: StealthWedge67] #1387256 02/15/13 01:50 PM 02/15/13 01:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,020 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,020 U.S.S.A.	Quote: Quote: Well, JRR, yer right, save money on that crank and you'll spend it on rods or pistons. Bummer! Regarding block and crank relative strengths, it seems to me that the stock blocks are failing before the cranks get into trouble. So it seems counterproductive to weaken a block that's already the weak link, in order to protect a crank that, even turned down, is the stronger link. R. I agree with this concept. The block obviously gets weaker when you bore the mainline, as the bearing saddle gets closer to the thinner parts of the main webbing. You'd have to show me how a crank gets weaker by cutting the main journals down, though. I could be wrong, but typically a smaller diameter of the same material is going to be stronger than a larger diameter. In any case, I would suggest that the most cost effective way to build a stout rotating assembly is going to be to find a good forged RB crank and make the modifications there. Add a good set of newer H-beam rods with ARP capscrews (I'm not a fan of using 40 year old stock rods in a performance build), and a set of forged slugs. Makes for a pretty stout rotating assembly at a very reasonable pricetag. Jim's reasoning was because of overlap of the journal diameters, the longer the stroke the less amount of material in the journals is one straight piece front to rear, kinda makes sense but I don't know what difference it makes structurally ?

Re: 440 stroke in a 383. Good idea? Post your combo/opinion [Re: JohnRR] #1387257 02/15/13 03:28 PM 02/15/13 03:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,376 D dogdays I Live Here
dogdays I Live Here D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,376	To the OP, there must be a dozen of these engines on the board and they are significantly stouter feeling than a 383. Do it! To whoever is worried about crank journal overlap, it has been a concern. It was a real concern for the OEMs especially using cast cranks. Thus you got the 2.81" main size on the 360 and the 2.65" main size on the chevy 400. HOWEVER, seeing that huge bigblockchevy engines are running stock 2.75" mains and 2.200" rod journals with 5.25" strokes and more, with zero journal overlap, it seems the 4340 cranks are strong enough so that doesn't matter as much. R. SO, OP, Do it! build that 3.75" stroke 383.

Re: 440 stroke in a 383. Good idea? Post your combo/opinion [Re: Belvedere500ci] #1387258 02/15/13 05:37 PM 02/15/13 05:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md 3 383man Too Many Posts
383man Too Many Posts 3 Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md	Quote: None this answer my questions. Its going off in a totally different direction. My 383 is all ready, that's the block I'm building. I'm either going to put it back stock stroke or 440 stroke. Who out there has a 431-438? I believe Mopar Muscle did a 431 a few years back with Eddy RPM heads. I believe its the one they put in a 65 Dodge Coronet and ran 11.70's with it. Ron

Re: 440 stroke in a 383. Good idea? Post your combo/opinion [Re: 383man] #1387259 02/15/13 08:17 PM 02/15/13 08:17 PM
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 97 western iowa Z Z_Z member
Z_Z member Z Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 97 western iowa	I have a 431. Not a ton of racing times with it...last summer I was able to get a best 7.88 8th, 1.78 60ft, at 89mph. Put on a set of indy ez on, has a .570 Ultradyne 251@.050/278. There is alot of tuning to do yet. I run 4 speed and 4.10 dana. I have done nothing but find the weakest link since I put the ez's on it.

Re: 440 stroke in a 383. Good idea? Post your combo/opinion [Re: Belvedere500ci] #1387260 02/15/13 08:50 PM 02/15/13 08:50 PM
Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 4,319 Puyallup, WA S StealthWedge67 master
StealthWedge67 master S Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 4,319 Puyallup, WA	Quote: None this answer my questions. Its going off in a totally different direction. My 383 is all ready, that's the block I'm building. I'm either going to put it back stock stroke or 440 stroke. Who out there has a 431-438? I'll say it again: "The extra stroke will pay big dividends in trying to move a 4-door belvedere, which is a hefty sled to say the least. Bottom line, the 3.75 stroke build will stomp the same 3.38 stroke build every time! and the bigger the car your moving, the bigger the advantage gets" LemonWedge - Street heavy / Strip ready - 11.07 @ 120

Re: 440 stroke in a 383. Good idea? Post your combo/opinion [Re: Belvedere500ci] #1387261 02/15/13 09:32 PM 02/15/13 09:32 PM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,314 Prospect, PA BSB67 master
BSB67 master Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,314 Prospect, PA	Quote: None this answer my questions. Its going off in a totally different direction. My 383 is all ready, that's the block I'm building. I'm either going to put it back stock stroke or 440 stroke. Who out there has a 431-438? Honestly, I've read your original post several times and have not responded because I really don't know what your question is. "440 stroke in a 383. Good idea?".....Yes. In the context of your question and the lack of any other information, any response will be of little value. Other than cost, I don't know what there is to evaluate. It's essentially comparing a 440 to a 383. Do you have some specific concern regarding the 431?

Re: 440 stroke in a 383. Good idea? Post your combo/opinion [Re: Belvedere500ci] #1387262 02/15/13 10:25 PM 02/15/13 10:25 PM
Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,770 Wethersfield,CT Ray440 top fuel
Ray440 top fuel Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,770 Wethersfield,CT	Quote: None this answer my questions. Its going off in a totally different direction. My 383 is all ready, that's the block I'm building. I'm either going to put it back stock stroke or 440 stroke. Who out there has a 431-438? Here is a 383 stroker build up written by board member AndyF. Maybe this article will answer some of your questions. http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techarticles/mopp_0605_mopar_performance_383_stroker_engine/ 1969 Plymouth Road Runner 440 auto 2017 Ram 1500 Quad Cab 5.7 Hemi

Re: 440 stroke in a 383. Good idea? Post your combo/opinion [Re: BSB67] #1387263 02/15/13 11:12 PM 02/15/13 11:12 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,200 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,200 Bend,OR USA	The 383 bore with the 440 stroke is basically the same as a 426 wedge, correct? OP, go for it The longer stroke motors make more torque, torque is what moves the mass, HP Hence my suggestion on offset stroking the 440 crank to 3.91 or 3.90 stroke Last edited by Cab_Burge; 02/16/13 03:28 PM. Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: 440 stroke in a 383. Good idea? Post your combo/opinion [Re: Belvedere500ci] #1387264 02/16/13 02:20 AM 02/16/13 02:20 AM
Joined: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,177 ill D dennismopar73 top fuel
dennismopar73 top fuel D Joined: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,177 ill	Quote: None this answer my questions. Its going off in a totally different direction. My 383 is all ready, that's the block I'm building. I'm either going to put it back stock stroke or 440 stroke. Who out there has a 431-438? Mine is a 437 love it !! go ahead and do the 440 crank in that 383

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