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02 Cummins fuel filter - need to bleed off pressure?
#1384061
02/09/13 06:05 PM
02/09/13 06:05 PM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 836
Up a holler, down a crick
booger
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Up a holler, down a crick
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I just went out to go somewhere, and my Cummins started and ran fine, then died when I put it in gear and it won't start again. Lucky me it rolled back far enough it's in the road now, but that's another problem.
I'm going to take a shot at changing the fuel filter, and hope that's what the problem is. But I wondered before I start, do I need to bleed pressure off the filter canister before I open it up? I'm planning to use a turkey baster to get the old fuel out because I've heard the drain valve doesn't always close off all the way if it hasn't been opened for a while.
Thanks in advance.
PS I just went out and goosed the starter and could hear a pump running for about 30 seconds ... I hope that means the pump isn't the problem.
Last edited by booger; 02/09/13 06:16 PM.
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Re: 02 Cummins fuel filter - need to bleed off pressure?
[Re: booger]
#1384062
02/09/13 07:07 PM
02/09/13 07:07 PM
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Joined: Aug 2012
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Up a holler, down a crick
booger
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Up a holler, down a crick
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Part 2 - I pulled up my pants and went ahead and opened the canister. No pressure. Very little fuel. Had a new filter on the shelf, stuck it in, ran though about a dozen or more prime cycles, no joy. Opened it back up, still not fuel. Tried priming again, still no joy.
Lift pump?
I can hear a pump buzzing near the filter when it should be priming, it goes for a while then starts to sound like it's dead-heading before it clicks off. Is that the lift pump or the injector pump that I'm hearing?
Any other ideas?
Thanks again
Chasing bears through the woods drunk with a dull hatchet is strongly not advised
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Re: 02 Cummins fuel filter - need to bleed off pressure?
[Re: moparcyco]
#1384065
02/09/13 07:56 PM
02/09/13 07:56 PM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 836
Up a holler, down a crick
booger
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Plenty of fuel in the tank, and there was liquid fuel in the canister but not much. When I opened it back up after the first time, it definitely had liquid fuel in it maybe half full?
It doesn't get real cold here. It's 40 today. If it gelled would it stay gelled? I last filled it up around Christmas so ideally it would've had winter blend in it but who knows.
I'm just glad it died right in the driveway, because my luck isn't usually that good.
Is there a way to figure out if the pump's actually pumping? Can I open up the filter canister and hit the key to see what happens? I figure the answer is only if I want to see what a diesel geyser would look like but thought I'd ask.
Chasing bears through the woods drunk with a dull hatchet is strongly not advised
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Re: 02 Cummins fuel filter - need to bleed off pressure?
[Re: jimbob101]
#1384070
02/10/13 01:51 AM
02/10/13 01:51 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,699
Newport, Mi
Evil Spirit
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master
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Newport, Mi
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Quote:
Sounds like lift pump, those years 98.5 to 2002 or so had the electric lift pump that would get weak and not supply enough fuel pressure. That ends up taking out the injector pump also since that fuel cools the injector pump. Swap out the lift pump in the tank and cross your fingers!
-J
On those years the lift pump should not be in the tank unless someone had put a conversion pump in it.
From 99-02 a Carter lift pump was added to the 24-valve trucks under the hood, next to the injection pump. Unfortunately, diaphragm pumps are designed to push fuel, not pull it from the tank, and it is not uncommon for the Carter pumps to fail-even in stock applications. When the common-rail engine was introduced for 2003, the lift pump was moved to the fuel tank.
Read more: http://www.dieselpowermag.com/tech/dodge/1007dp_cummins_lift_pump_upgrade/viewall.html#ixzz2KT9WoaE1
Free advice and worth every penny...
Factory trained Slinky rewinder.........
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Re: 02 Cummins fuel filter - need to bleed off pressure?
[Re: Blown71X]
#1384072
02/10/13 09:12 AM
02/10/13 09:12 AM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 836
Up a holler, down a crick
booger
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Yeah the lift pump is under the hood. It got dark on me last night so I'll be back at it today.
Let's say the fuel did gel last week when it was about 10* here - wouldn't it have un-gelled now that it's up around 40? Or once it's gelled does it stay gelled?
I've had the truck for about 10 years, rarely drive it (avg 2k miles per year), and it has never failed me before no matter what the temperature is. It seems like if it's a gelling problem it would've bit me before now, but everything I know about gelling I've learned since yesterday.
Chasing bears through the woods drunk with a dull hatchet is strongly not advised
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02 Cummins needed to bleed the injectors
[Re: booger]
#1384073
02/10/13 12:19 PM
02/10/13 12:19 PM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 836
Up a holler, down a crick
booger
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OK no need to stick anything in the tank after all. It was air locked at the injector and needed bled.
First I checked the filter canister was full, then loosened up #1 and #4 injectors. Spun it over and after a few seconds it started trying to fire, I let it sit a few then tried again and it fired. Once it fired I cut it off and tightened the injectors back up. A little fuel squired out, no big deal though. I drove it far enough to be sure it had full power, and called it done.
So I guess anytime you run out of gas or the filter clogs, this is a possibility.
Chasing bears through the woods drunk with a dull hatchet is strongly not advised
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Re: 02 Cummins fuel filter - need to bleed off pressure?
[Re: Blown71X]
#1384075
02/10/13 04:40 PM
02/10/13 04:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,699
Newport, Mi
Evil Spirit
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Quote:
Just so ya know.....
98.5-02 Carter pumps are a rotary vane, Not diaphram.
03-early 05 Common rail had a lift/transfer pump mounted to the filter housing.
OE in-tank did not appear until mid production 2005.
Rick
The section I posted was from the middle of a paragraph from the magazine. The way I read it, the earlier (pre 98) engines had a diaphram lift pump that was cam driven, and they changed to an electric lift pump in 98. The sentence is kinda run together, but reading the whole article I took it that the early diaphram pumps aren't real effecient pulling fuel from the tank, AND they changed to the other pump in 98.
Our experience with the 98-02's has been it's the location of the pump, not really a failure of the pump. The pump has to work too hard to pull fuel up to the engine - put that same pump back at the tank, as low as possible and let it push the fuel and you will never have an issue with it, or the injector pump. 
Free advice and worth every penny...
Factory trained Slinky rewinder.........
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Re: 02 Cummins fuel filter - need to bleed off pressure?
[Re: Evil Spirit]
#1384076
02/10/13 05:43 PM
02/10/13 05:43 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 13,185
aZLiViN
J_BODY
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I Live Here
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Quote:
....and let it push the fuel and you will never have an issue with it, or the injector pump.
Whistle blown.... PENALTY!! "improper use of the word "never"...." 5 yards! 
...while I do agree that these pumps "may" be better suited back by the tank, that then subjects them to the weather, and gives you two more points where fuel can leak... and a VP can die with proper fuel volume fed to it. My truck is living proof. I've also replaced them (VP44's) with about every fuel system under the sun installed on them. Nothing like telling a customer they need an injection pump when he read on "diesel truck resource for lies" that his $600 FASS pump would without a doubt save his injection pump.
btw... my 01 still runs the stock style lift pump. I only changed the original out back in late 07 when the ULSD created a leak at the top diaphram. Cummins had a tsb to replace the diaphram with an updated material. I upgraded that pump and saved it for my "spare". The other has been on the truck since then. "yes"....I do run a fuel psi gauge to keep an eye on it.
...and to the original poster. if you prime your fuel filter with the "bump starter" method, your fuel canister should be full. I'd still be checking that lift pump.
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Re: 02 Cummins fuel filter - need to bleed off pressure?
[Re: booger]
#1384077
02/10/13 06:20 PM
02/10/13 06:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,409
UPPER MICHIGAN, MARQUETTE COUN...
NITROUSN
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I Live Here
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Quote:
Part 2 - I pulled up my pants and went ahead and opened the canister. No pressure. Very little fuel. Had a new filter on the shelf, stuck it in, ran though about a dozen or more prime cycles, no joy. Opened it back up, still not fuel. Tried priming again, still no joy.
Lift pump?
So now it runs. Your problem has not gone away. Better run a volume test or fuel pressure test. That truck died for lack of fuel. Gelled at 40 no way. Poor failing lift pump or sucking air.
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Re: 02 Cummins fuel filter - need to bleed off pressure?
[Re: NITROUSN]
#1384078
02/10/13 06:23 PM
02/10/13 06:23 PM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 836
Up a holler, down a crick
booger
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Well I figure the no start was caused by a plugged filter, possibly brought on by cold temperatures week before last. Then needing to bleed the injectors was just the cherry on the cake. Just came back from a highway run and it seems to have more power than before actually. This morning the canister was pretty well full. Definitely was the first time I'd pulled the filter up and fuel gushed out of it.
Chasing bears through the woods drunk with a dull hatchet is strongly not advised
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Re: 02 Cummins fuel filter - need to bleed off pressure?
[Re: booger]
#1384079
02/10/13 06:33 PM
02/10/13 06:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,409
UPPER MICHIGAN, MARQUETTE COUN...
NITROUSN
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Posts: 18,409
UPPER MICHIGAN, MARQUETTE COUN...
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Quote:
Well I figure the no start was caused by a plugged filter, possibly brought on by cold temperatures week before last. Then needing to bleed the injectors was just the cherry on the cake. Just came back from a highway run and it seems to have more power than before actually. This morning the canister was pretty well full. Definitely was the first time I'd pulled the filter up and fuel gushed out of it.
Tick, Tick, Tick.
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