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Re: Indy or Shady Dell?
[Re: mokid]
#1365657
01/07/13 11:59 PM
01/07/13 11:59 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,101
cincinnati ohio
mcat4321
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,101
cincinnati ohio
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I think most guys on this site are stuck using the same engine guys all the other mopar guys use. As I have in the past but if you get out of the box there are engine builders, head guys that are far better then the old go to shops.
just by reading your posts, i am assuming you have no idea what CNC means... most small shops dont even have a cnc machine..
then the chances that they spent the r&d and money to write a good program for the specific head that the OP asked about is slim to none..
but hey, thanks for playing 
Let me guess you have a rinky dink old ass small block that puts out 400HP and your the sh--- right. Put together a $30,000.00 plus motor together and then we'll talk about CNC who knows what. I have dealt with both of the shops mentioned and both suck.
whew.. settle down francis..
does your 30k builder have an indy program for said heads??? i'll bet not
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Re: Indy or Shady Dell?
[Re: mcat4321]
#1365659
01/08/13 12:04 AM
01/08/13 12:04 AM
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 290
no mans land
racerbychoice
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 290
no mans land
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Quote:
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I think most guys on this site are stuck using the same engine guys all the other mopar guys use. As I have in the past but if you get out of the box there are engine builders, head guys that are far better then the old go to shops.
just by reading your posts, i am assuming you have no idea what CNC means... most small shops dont even have a cnc machine..
then the chances that they spent the r&d and money to write a good program for the specific head that the OP asked about is slim to none..
but hey, thanks for playing
Let me guess you have a rinky dink old ass small block that puts out 400HP and your the sh--- right. Put together a $30,000.00 plus motor together and then we'll talk about CNC who knows what. I have dealt with both of the shops mentioned and both suck.
whew.. settle down francis..
does your 30k builder have an indy program for said heads??? i'll bet not
i would hope that a $30k smallblock doesn't have INDY sb heads on it... 
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Re: Indy or Shady Dell?
[Re: J_BODY]
#1365661
01/08/13 12:19 AM
01/08/13 12:19 AM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 35
Minot, ND
darndart
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 35
Minot, ND
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Quote:
Going to the original question of "Indy...or Shady Dell"...... I'd put my $ on Shady Dell. Sticking to what the OP asked, that's how I'd go.
Btw were not talking about 30k W8 engines..... But I'd still love to hear about it.
Thanks Jay. You still got the Mirada tearing up the tracks?
73 Dart Sport 340, 410ci, Indy 360-2 230CNC.
72 Demon 340 4-speed
01 Ram Quad Cab
89 Mustang LX Boss 331,C4,HP76mm turbo, FAST EFI
86 Mustang GT 5.0 AOD
82 Capri RS 306, Fox Lake Stage 1 TW, N41, T5,etc.
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Re: Indy or Shady Dell?
[Re: J_BODY]
#1365662
01/08/13 12:22 AM
01/08/13 12:22 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,101
cincinnati ohio
mcat4321
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,101
cincinnati ohio
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Quote:
Btw were not talking about 30k W8 engines..... But I'd still love to hear about it.
pffft! i would have used some RP W9 
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Re: Indy or Shady Dell?
[Re: mcat4321]
#1365663
01/08/13 12:34 AM
01/08/13 12:34 AM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 252
St.Louis, Mo.
mokid
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 252
St.Louis, Mo.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I think most guys on this site are stuck using the same engine guys all the other mopar guys use. As I have in the past but if you get out of the box there are engine builders, head guys that are far better then the old go to shops.
just by reading your posts, i am assuming you have no idea what CNC means... most small shops dont even have a cnc machine..
then the chances that they spent the r&d and money to write a good program for the specific head that the OP asked about is slim to none..
but hey, thanks for playing
Let me guess you have a rinky dink old ass small block that puts out 400HP and your the sh--- right. Put together a $30,000.00 plus motor together and then we'll talk about CNC who knows what. I have dealt with both of the shops mentioned and both suck.
whew.. settle down francis..
does your 30k builder have an indy program for said heads??? i'll bet not
You tell me go to hrdracingheads.com or m2race.com
Shady Dell did not have a program when I bouight W8s from them Indy could not even do lifter bores much less heads, Like I said I have dealt with most, also someonr thats not mentioned Hennsley Racing in Tenn. Great builders and have differant stages of head work for Eddies they did my first set
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Re: Indy or Shady Dell?
[Re: darndart]
#1365665
01/08/13 01:04 AM
01/08/13 01:04 AM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 13,202
aZLiViN
J_BODY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 13,202
aZLiViN
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Quote:
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Going to the original question of "Indy...or Shady Dell"...... I'd put my $ on Shady Dell. Sticking to what the OP asked, that's how I'd go.
Btw were not talking about 30k W8 engines..... But I'd still love to hear about it.
Thanks Jay. You still got the Mirada tearing up the tracks?
Sold the Mirada after 28 years..... Now have the Duster we put together before I left SoDak as my dad retired from racing. Throwing our old 360 back in it until our "other" engine comes together. Jesse talked me into some things  .
We had a set of W5 heads that I sent to Ryan. I will say that I was more disappointed in the quality of the heads themselves than the work done. We had them cnc ported. Short turn on cyl #3 leaked (50 passes)......I blame the head. Sent it back and he epoxied the head. 150 passes later and the epoxy came out (who's to blame here.... I've read posts on a couple others that have had similar issues with other head guys). Was bad enough that it killed the engine as my dad turned on the return road. Sent the head to be properly repaired (welded)....disaster strikes, can't be done. Aluminum, and I use the term loosely, was of such poor quality that the guy repairing it threw in the towel. So now we have one "good" head. Ended up selling it to a member here who immediately called me to let me know that 3 of the intake guides had cracks up to the top of the port. My dad had shipped the head so I hadn't looked at it (I'm in AZ, he's in SoDak). I did however have the "junk" head that we had sent out to be welded. Pulled that out of the box and sure enough....2 of the intake ports are cracked up into the port around the guide. We had SDSS put those guides in when we sent the heads there to be cnc ported. So that pretty much leaves the cracks up to poor craftsmanship, or trying to press a guide into a head that had the consistency of a fortune cookie. We're the cracks detrimental? Not sure, but I'm betting they weren't any good. Btw the 4" stroke 340 block they were on delivered us a best et of 9.87 at 137 and some change through the mufflers. . If we could have gotten the 60 times down I'm sure it would have gone quicker. We hadn't even beat on it really hard.
Sorry for the long winded story...
Jay
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Re: Indy or Shady Dell?
[Re: J_BODY]
#1365666
01/08/13 01:17 AM
01/08/13 01:17 AM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,257
gulfport, ms, west mi
rowin4
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,257
gulfport, ms, west mi
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Quote:
Quote:
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Going to the original question of "Indy...or Shady Dell"...... I'd put my $ on Shady Dell. Sticking to what the OP asked, that's how I'd go.
Btw were not talking about 30k W8 engines..... But I'd still love to hear about it.
Thanks Jay. You still got the Mirada tearing up the tracks?
Sold the Mirada after 28 years..... Now have the Duster we put together before I left SoDak as my dad retired from racing. Throwing our old 360 back in it until our "other" engine comes together. Jesse talked me into some things .
We had a set of W5 heads that I sent to Ryan. I will say that I was more disappointed in the quality of the heads themselves than the work done. We had them cnc ported. Short turn on cyl #3 leaked (50 passes)......I blame the head. Sent it back and he epoxied the head. 150 passes later and the epoxy came out (who's to blame here.... I've read posts on a couple others that have had similar issues with other head guys). Was bad enough that it killed the engine as my dad turned on the return road. Sent the head to be properly repaired (welded)....disaster strikes, can't be done. Aluminum, and I use the term loosely, was of such poor quality that the guy repairing it threw in the towel. So now we have one "good" head. Ended up selling it to a member here who immediately called me to let me know that 3 of the intake guides had cracks up to the top of the port. My dad had shipped the head so I hadn't looked at it (I'm in AZ, he's in SoDak). I did however have the "junk" head that we had sent out to be welded. Pulled that out of the box and sure enough....2 of the intake ports are cracked up into the port around the guide. We had SDSS put those guides in when we sent the heads there to be cnc ported. So that pretty much leaves the cracks up to poor craftsmanship, or trying to press a guide into a head that had the consistency of a fortune cookie. We're the cracks detrimental? Not sure, but I'm betting they weren't any good. Btw the 4" stroke 340 block they were on delivered us a best et of 9.87 at 137 and some change through the mufflers. . If we could have gotten the 60 times down I'm sure it would have gone quicker. We hadn't even beat on it really hard.
Sorry for the long winded story...
Jay
So , you send a guy a set of heads that are full of porousity and it's his fault? I guess you have to blame some one. 
it's ok to butt heads, just don't do it with a butthead
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Re: Indy or Shady Dell?
[Re: J_BODY]
#1365667
01/08/13 01:21 AM
01/08/13 01:21 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,260
Las Vegas NV
moparmanjames
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,260
Las Vegas NV
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Going to the original question of "Indy...or Shady Dell"...... I'd put my $ on Shady Dell. Sticking to what the OP asked, that's how I'd go.
Btw were not talking about 30k W8 engines..... But I'd still love to hear about it.
Thanks Jay. You still got the Mirada tearing up the tracks?
Sold the Mirada after 28 years..... Now have the Duster we put together before I left SoDak as my dad retired from racing. Throwing our old 360 back in it until our "other" engine comes together. Jesse talked me into some things .
We had a set of W5 heads that I sent to Ryan. I will say that I was more disappointed in the quality of the heads themselves than the work done. We had them cnc ported. Short turn on cyl #3 leaked (50 passes)......I blame the head. Sent it back and he epoxied the head. 150 passes later and the epoxy came out (who's to blame here.... I've read posts on a couple others that have had similar issues with other head guys). Was bad enough that it killed the engine as my dad turned on the return road. Sent the head to be properly repaired (welded)....disaster strikes, can't be done. Aluminum, and I use the term loosely, was of such poor quality that the guy repairing it threw in the towel. So now we have one "good" head. Ended up selling it to a member here who immediately called me to let me know that 3 of the intake guides had cracks up to the top of the port. My dad had shipped the head so I hadn't looked at it (I'm in AZ, he's in SoDak). I did however have the "junk" head that we had sent out to be welded. Pulled that out of the box and sure enough....2 of the intake ports are cracked up into the port around the guide. We had SDSS put those guides in when we sent the heads there to be cnc ported. So that pretty much leaves the cracks up to poor craftsmanship, or trying to press a guide into a head that had the consistency of a fortune cookie. We're the cracks detrimental? Not sure, but I'm betting they weren't any good. Btw the 4" stroke 340 block they were on delivered us a best et of 9.87 at 137 and some change through the mufflers. . If we could have gotten the 60 times down I'm sure it would have gone quicker. We hadn't even beat on it really hard.
Sorry for the long winded story...
Jay
Hey Jay where did you run the 9.87? That's cooking in the desert for a small block.
Sorry to hear about the heads.
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Re: Indy or Shady Dell?
[Re: rowin4]
#1365668
01/08/13 01:25 AM
01/08/13 01:25 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,260
Las Vegas NV
moparmanjames
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,260
Las Vegas NV
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Going to the original question of "Indy...or Shady Dell"...... I'd put my $ on Shady Dell. Sticking to what the OP asked, that's how I'd go.
Btw were not talking about 30k W8 engines..... But I'd still love to hear about it.
Thanks Jay. You still got the Mirada tearing up the tracks?
Sold the Mirada after 28 years..... Now have the Duster we put together before I left SoDak as my dad retired from racing. Throwing our old 360 back in it until our "other" engine comes together. Jesse talked me into some things .
We had a set of W5 heads that I sent to Ryan. I will say that I was more disappointed in the quality of the heads themselves than the work done. We had them cnc ported. Short turn on cyl #3 leaked (50 passes)......I blame the head. Sent it back and he epoxied the head. 150 passes later and the epoxy came out (who's to blame here.... I've read posts on a couple others that have had similar issues with other head guys). Was bad enough that it killed the engine as my dad turned on the return road. Sent the head to be properly repaired (welded)....disaster strikes, can't be done. Aluminum, and I use the term loosely, was of such poor quality that the guy repairing it threw in the towel. So now we have one "good" head. Ended up selling it to a member here who immediately called me to let me know that 3 of the intake guides had cracks up to the top of the port. My dad had shipped the head so I hadn't looked at it (I'm in AZ, he's in SoDak). I did however have the "junk" head that we had sent out to be welded. Pulled that out of the box and sure enough....2 of the intake ports are cracked up into the port around the guide. We had SDSS put those guides in when we sent the heads there to be cnc ported. So that pretty much leaves the cracks up to poor craftsmanship, or trying to press a guide into a head that had the consistency of a fortune cookie. We're the cracks detrimental? Not sure, but I'm betting they weren't any good. Btw the 4" stroke 340 block they were on delivered us a best et of 9.87 at 137 and some change through the mufflers. . If we could have gotten the 60 times down I'm sure it would have gone quicker. We hadn't even beat on it really hard.
Sorry for the long winded story...
Jay
So , you send a guy a set of heads that are full of porousity and it's his fault? I guess you have to blame some one.
In all fairness he added "or trying to press a guide into a head that had the consistency of a fortune cookie"
He also stated that he was more disappointed with the quality of the heads than the work done.
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Re: Indy or Shady Dell?
[Re: J_BODY]
#1365669
01/08/13 01:28 AM
01/08/13 01:28 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,729
Portage,michigan
B3422W5
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,729
Portage,michigan
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Tough one
Like choosing between getting shot or stabbed.
I have seen first hand how piss poor the customer service is at Indy, and how condescending they can be, as well as the finish work/ quality they finish stuff off with( ie consistently poor valve jobs that need redone.
Ryan butchered a set of W5 heads I had him port. They were sent to me leaking like a sieve, and with 3 or 4 spring pockets so thin you could easily push a pencil through them.... Super for roller springs.... not.....Thankfully a reputable shop( Best Machine) was able to make them usable
I definately wouldnt send him anything.
We're it me, I would I guess have Indy run the Cnc program on them, then have someone like Brett, Brian, or Best, among others finish them up/ assemble/ do valve job, etc.
At least that way you could probably deal with Josh, just literally have the CNC run on them and use an above vendor to finish them.
I will never forget Ken Lazerri bashing a set of Eddie heads I had at that time as worthless at a drag strip, while trying to shove a set of Indybrock heads down my throat that are at best marginally better. What a friggin tool that self centered jerk is.
Anyhow, there is my honest advice, I don't sugarcoat anything, nor do I lie about my personal experiences
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight
418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam
Best so far, low 10.30’s 1/4
1.41 best 60 foot
6.56 at 104.17
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Re: Indy or Shady Dell?
[Re: moparmanjames]
#1365670
01/08/13 01:28 AM
01/08/13 01:28 AM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 252
St.Louis, Mo.
mokid
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 252
St.Louis, Mo.
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Quote:
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You tell me go to hrdracingheads.com or m2race.com
The hrd site looked good, but the m2race.com is a site for buying stone veneer lol
http://m2race.com/
Try M2Race Systems I sure they have a CNC machine
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Re: Indy or Shady Dell?
[Re: rowin4]
#1365671
01/08/13 02:21 AM
01/08/13 02:21 AM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 13,202
aZLiViN
J_BODY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 13,202
aZLiViN
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Hind sight is 20/20 Steve. As James noted, the only "craftsmanship" issues I possibly had was the cracking around the guides, and like I stated before, it was either an assembly error, or trying to press a guide into material that resembled a fortune cookie. I cannot make that call....machinist im not....and would you be happy sending your head to a "professional" for a repair and the epoxy comes out after 150 passes?? Once again...I'm not an expert in this field, that's why I rely on people "in the know" to handle these situations. Perhaps it wasn't made clear to me that the epoxy repair was a "maybe it will work, maybe it won't" deal. These were the supposed "good" blue core plug heads. I had another set of W5's, but sold them in anticipation of the Ebrock super victor head. Those heads seemed to have a better visual finish, but at that point I'd had enough of MP heads. We ran Stage VI's on my big block.....I'm a glutton for punishment I guess. We actually were building a W2 mill, but those had some cracks in them (quite common from what i've seen) and I went with the W5 under the guise that "aluminum heads are repairable". Live and learn.
9.87 was run at Oahe Speedway Jim...
Last edited by J_BODY; 01/08/13 11:09 AM.
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Re: Indy or Shady Dell?
[Re: J_BODY]
#1365672
01/08/13 04:07 AM
01/08/13 04:07 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,385
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,385
Las Vegas
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Well I think my position on the subject has been well documented over the years so I wont rehash it. But if it were me like mokid said I would be looking elswhere. Mopar guys sure get hung up on using "mopar only" shops. There are plenty of compitent shops out there that can do the work. Afterall .0001" is .0001" whether it is Ford Chvy or Mopar. A good machinist ot head guy is a good machinist or head guy period. The fact some here are poo pooing a $30K all out effort does not surprise me either. Some just have no idea what it costs to actually build an all out effort.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: Indy or Shady Dell?
[Re: moparguy7074]
#1365674
01/08/13 09:14 AM
01/08/13 09:14 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,826
NY usa
540challenger
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,826
NY usa
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Quote:
I have a question, why is a cnc port job better than a hand port job? 
Cheaper, Hand work can lead to better result but cost $$$$$$$,
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Re: Indy or Shady Dell?
[Re: 540challenger]
#1365676
01/08/13 11:29 AM
01/08/13 11:29 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247
Mt. Vernon, Ohio
dartman366
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247
Mt. Vernon, Ohio
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Quote:
Quote:
I have a question, why is a cnc port job better than a hand port job?
Cheaper, Hand work can lead to better result but cost $$$$$$$,
also CNC is more consistant from chamber to chamber and port to port.
Light travels faster than the speed of sound,,,this is why some people seem bright untill you hear them speak.
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