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Re: Build Sheet info
[Re: cbusters]
#1364520
01/05/13 02:42 AM
01/05/13 02:42 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 29,653
Hamtramck, PA
Alaskan_TA
Fluffy Balladeer
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Fluffy Balladeer
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 29,653
Hamtramck, PA
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Quote:
I have a 69 RR E63 engine. What is the three digit number for the build sheet for this.
What does your broadcast sheet say?
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Re: Build Sheet info
[Re: cbusters]
#1364521
01/05/13 08:59 AM
01/05/13 08:59 AM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 339
western PA
stevet340
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 339
western PA
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Quote:
I have a 69 RR E63 engine. What is the three digit number for the build sheet for this.
You answered your own question. E 63. Only the 2 numbers are in the box of a 1969 braodcast sheet, below the E in the eng section of the sheet on the first line. Not sure why it is top secret info to guys on here??? 
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Re: Build Sheet info
[Re: stevet340]
#1364522
01/05/13 10:32 AM
01/05/13 10:32 AM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 784
Florida
cbusters
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 784
Florida
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Quote:
Quote:
I have a 69 RR E63 engine. What is the three digit number for the build sheet for this.
You answered your own question. E 63. Only the 2 numbers are in the box of a 1969 braodcast sheet, below the E in the eng section of the sheet on the first line. Not sure why it is top secret info to guys on here???
The engine assembly numbers that are both on the valve covers and on the assembly sheet are three digit numbers according to my research.
Examples:
899 = 69 super bee 383-4 w/ac
112 = 70 superbird 426
917 = 440-4 hp
122 = 70 440-6
And I suspect the 69 rr 383-4 engine may be 625
Transmission numbers are up to three digits
Examples:
122 = 70 automatic
5 = 70 Manual
0 = 68-9 manual
125 = 69 rr auto
E63 engines came in a few configurations. The same number goes to an A-body 383-4, but the exhaust manifolds may be a little different. And that may be why the other codes were used. There would also be a different number for an auto verses a manual, because of the pilot bushing.
My engine is also a California car that came with the spark delay valve for emissions. This was installed prior to engine paint and may also have a different code for the factory workers.
Maybe these are top secret until we get an answer on here, and we all get educated just a bit. Can anybody verify that the code is only "63". I may be as uninformed as you think.
So please, no more attitude answers, and help a Mopar guy out.
This is starting to look like a trivia question!
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Re: Build Sheet info
[Re: stevet340]
#1364523
01/05/13 07:05 PM
01/05/13 07:05 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,028
NB, Canada
moparfan53
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,028
NB, Canada
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Quote:
Quote:
I have a 69 RR E63 engine. What is the three digit number for the build sheet for this.
You answered your own question. E 63. Only the 2 numbers are in the box of a 1969 braodcast sheet, below the E in the eng section of the sheet on the first line. Not sure why it is top secret info to guys on here???
I don't think he answered his own question. The 63 is the 2 digit engine option code on line 2. Pretty sure he is looking for the 3 digit engine assembly code on line 3. See example below for an E61 engine. I think that would be difficult to find out if not readable on the sheet.
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Re: Build Sheet info
[Re: cbusters]
#1364524
01/05/13 07:44 PM
01/05/13 07:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,516
Las Vegas, NV
6bblgt
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,516
Las Vegas, NV
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FWIW  There are at least six different 3 digit ENG assembly numbers (actually 7 digit) for the '69 383 engine in a Road Runner. 1 - you didn't provide enough information for the correct answer 2 - the number is on the fender tag of a Lynch Rd. Detroit, MI assembled Road Runner (Do you have a fender tag? Where was your RR built?) 3 - the number is on the broadcast sheet (Do you have a broadcast sheet?) Since there is usually not a lot of help offered to invent a broadcast sheet or fender tag, you probably will NOT receive a serious answer. FAIR ENOUGH?? 
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Re: Build Sheet info
[Re: 6bblgt]
#1364525
01/06/13 02:26 AM
01/06/13 02:26 AM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 784
Florida
cbusters
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 784
Florida
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Quote:
FWIW
There are at least six different 3 digit ENG assembly numbers (actually 7 digit) for the '69 383 engine in a Road Runner.
1 - you didn't provide enough information for the correct answer
2 - the number is on the fender tag of a Lynch Rd. Detroit, MI assembled Road Runner (Do you have a fender tag? Where was your RR built?)
3 - the number is on the broadcast sheet (Do you have a broadcast sheet?)
Since there is usually not a lot of help offered to invent a broadcast sheet or fender tag, you probably will NOT receive a serious answer.
FAIR ENOUGH??
I am not trying to invent a fender tag or a broadcast sheet. I don't think that my 383 4 speed car with few options will be any threat to the value of anyone's car collection. We are just attempting to detail the car to the extreme as an example of what can be accomplished. This is just the standard fun to drive car that has more money in it than it could ever be worth, like other true Mopar people. I can still hold on to the hope that someone will help like I help others. Thanks for the warning anyways!
My original fender tag has E63 on it and it was built in LA California. What other info is needed?
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Re: Build Sheet info
[Re: cbusters]
#1364526
01/06/13 03:20 AM
01/06/13 03:20 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,516
Las Vegas, NV
6bblgt
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,516
Las Vegas, NV
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transmission & with or without A/C & a simpler question would've/could've been: What number should be on the passenger side valve cover of my 383 4-spd with A/C '69 Road Runner? 
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Re: Build Sheet info
[Re: 6bblgt]
#1364527
01/06/13 10:38 AM
01/06/13 10:38 AM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 784
Florida
cbusters
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 784
Florida
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Quote:
transmission & with or without A/C
& a simpler question would've/could've been:
What number should be on the passenger side valve cover of my 383 4-spd with A/C '69 Road Runner?
Manual Trans, so the drivers valve cover will have a "0".
No a/c.
I took the other route after reading the reactions from some of the questions from other extreme restoration members. I guess you will lose either way. Thanks for the help.
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Re: Build Sheet info
[Re: 68gtx]
#1364529
01/06/13 04:18 PM
01/06/13 04:18 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 784
Florida
cbusters
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 784
Florida
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Quote:
I am restoring a 68 GTX. I have been doing GM stuff for ever. This is my first MOPAR. So I too have tried to educate my self on some of this stuff. I must say I have never seen a group that is so suspicious. They think everyone that ask a question about a broadcast sheet or fender tag is up doing something shady??? Like you have a bunch of blank broad cast sheets you are getting ready to print off. 
I have shared and received some good information on the forums. Not everybody believes in the "Freedom of Information" and some feel information is a commodity for profit. I just wait them out and someone will help if you are persistent.
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Re: Build Sheet info
[Re: 68gtx]
#1364530
01/06/13 04:20 PM
01/06/13 04:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 29,653
Hamtramck, PA
Alaskan_TA
Fluffy Balladeer
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Fluffy Balladeer
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 29,653
Hamtramck, PA
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Quote:
Like you have a bunch of blank broad cast sheets you are getting ready to print off.
Two members here have made them for others in the past that we know of.
A seller on Ebay also sells them & will print them out any way you like.
So yes, we are suspicious.
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Re: Build Sheet info
[Re: 68gtx]
#1364532
01/06/13 05:27 PM
01/06/13 05:27 PM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,912
Anchorage, Alaska
Iceman01
Challenged
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Challenged
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,912
Anchorage, Alaska
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Quote:
... I must say I have never seen a group that is so suspicious. They think everyone that ask a question about a broadcast sheet or fender tag is up doing something shady ...
You nailed it. Although some here have accumulated fairly authoritative knowledge on this subject, the prevailing Moparts culture strongly discourages them from sharing it publicly. In their defense, they actually believe they are doing the hobby a favor by acting as self-appointed policemen, and to some degree they probably are.
But more than one thing can be true at the same time. In America, we aren't generally proactive in stopping crime -- that's what thought police do. It's like paraphrasing the popular saying, "Fender tags don't kill people, knowledge kills people." Also true -- and perhaps lying more at the root of the secrecy -- is that those who won't freely share their knowledge are in reality also meeting their own human psychological needs for power and control of others. For them, it's a win-win situation -- those who seek the secret knowledge for innocent purposes are merely collateral damage in the war against fraud and deception before it even occurs.
Your best bet is to seek this information from other sources...
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Re: Build Sheet info
[Re: 68gtx]
#1364533
01/06/13 05:49 PM
01/06/13 05:49 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,154
bethlehem pa
mikemee1331
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,154
bethlehem pa
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Quote:
I am restoring a 68 GTX. I have been doing GM stuff for ever. This is my first MOPAR. So I too have tried to educate my self on some of this stuff. I must say I have never seen a group that is so suspicious. They think everyone that ask a question about a broadcast sheet or fender tag is up doing something shady??? Like you have a bunch of blank broad cast sheets you are getting ready to print off.
since this type of topic (documentation)was just thrashed out over in the restoration forum i'll just quote A12 excellent reply about everyone being gun shy - "Here's the point I think JohnRR was trying to make but as always these threads take a turn for the worse. For years with the A12 cars we had many, many threads on "painted or unpainted" fender tags on A12 or Lynch Road assembled cars and the more we discussed the tags the more we found newly made tags that were not original but getting so good that it was getting hard to tell. Well we realized that the makers of tags were following right along and even asking questions of how can you tell the differences? That's when we decided that if we wanted to know something about a specific tag that we would discuss it by PM, email or phone so that we could at least keep some of the telltales from being discovered. Wouldn't it be nice if you could get on a public forum with the U.S. Treasury and asked them how you could make your "reprint" money so good that even they couldn't spot your "reprint". And you could tell them that the only reason that you wanted to "reprint" a couple of million was because you had it in a nice suitcase but the suitcase got lost or stolen with the original money in it......
So now if a tag is really not worth any value to the car then why do we need to make it soooo perfect that it can't be spotted from an original, is it kind of like "reprinted" money. Again kind of like color copying a hundred dollar bill and everytime you copy it you somehow change the serial number......what do you think someone is doing if they did that just wanting to copy some money or pass it off as..............I just hope the tag producers NEVER find out how to make all of them perfect.
Carry on with letting them know what they need to do so you can't tell one from an original....that's why security companies always hire the ex-cons to help the security company do their job better" link to one of the discussions - https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...part=1&vc=1 - i understand both sides and will only offer that new or 'newer' members should be sensitive to the way they phrase questions concerning the documents that can positively identify or debuke our Mopars.
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Re: Build Sheet info
[Re: cbusters]
#1364535
01/06/13 07:53 PM
01/06/13 07:53 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 784
Florida
cbusters
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 784
Florida
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Here is the answer from an article done by Frank Badalson. Lots of information! http://roadtrip.yearone.com/2010_07_01_archive.htmlAnd so the search engine will pick it up to help someone in the future: Fender Tag Code for an E63 "69 383-4 manual trans" matches the Engine Assembly Code of 925 which will also be on the passenger valve cover.
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Re: Build Sheet info
[Re: mikemee1331]
#1364538
01/07/13 03:22 PM
01/07/13 03:22 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,899
MYRTLE BEACH SOUTH CAROLINA
ek3
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,899
MYRTLE BEACH SOUTH CAROLINA
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Quote:
Quote:
I am restoring a 68 GTX. I have been doing GM stuff for ever. This is my first MOPAR. So I too have tried to educate my self on some of this stuff. I must say I have never seen a group that is so suspicious. They think everyone that ask a question about a broadcast sheet or fender tag is up doing something shady??? Like you have a bunch of blank broad cast sheets you are getting ready to print off.
since this type of topic (documentation)was just thrashed out over in the restoration forum i'll just quote A12 excellent reply about everyone being gun shy - "Here's the point I think JohnRR was trying to make but as always these threads take a turn for the worse. For years with the A12 cars we had many, many threads on "painted or unpainted" fender tags on A12 or Lynch Road assembled cars and the more we discussed the tags the more we found newly made tags that were not original but getting so good that it was getting hard to tell. Well we realized that the makers of tags were following right along and even asking questions of how can you tell the differences? That's when we decided that if we wanted to know something about a specific tag that we would discuss it by PM, email or phone so that we could at least keep some of the telltales from being discovered. Wouldn't it be nice if you could get on a public forum with the U.S. Treasury and asked them how you could make your "reprint" money so good that even they couldn't spot your "reprint". And you could tell them that the only reason that you wanted to "reprint" a couple of million was because you had it in a nice suitcase but the suitcase got lost or stolen with the original money in it......
So now if a tag is really not worth any value to the car then why do we need to make it soooo perfect that it can't be spotted from an original, is it kind of like "reprinted" money. Again kind of like color copying a hundred dollar bill and everytime you copy it you somehow change the serial number......what do you think someone is doing if they did that just wanting to copy some money or pass it off as..............I just hope the tag producers NEVER find out how to make all of them perfect.
Carry on with letting them know what they need to do so you can't tell one from an original....that's why security companies always hire the ex-cons to help the security company do their job better" link to one of the discussions - https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...part=1&vc=1 - i understand both sides and will only offer that new or 'newer' members should be sensitive to the way they phrase questions concerning the documents that can positively identify or debuke our Mopars.
... i agree with all you have said with exception of New or newer members should be sensitve to the way they phrase questions concearning the documents ect... mabe .. you [moparts ] should be more sensitive to the fact that new members do not have a crystal ball to know this. If you truly desire to protect the information, let that be known in your NEW MEMBER SECTION . i asked a direct question without trying to hide anything and i get a smart a/s reply totaly off topic. mabe the KNOWLAGEABLE ones could simply reply with an equally honest answer. ie; we do not like to give out this information freely due to past issues which may have been used in an improper manner .there is no need to build animosity between those who seek knowlage and those who have it. AS usual, the good and honest people will suffer from the fallout of the few bad apples . 
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I was originally thinking the same thing. 
