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Re: Another engine color ? 69 HP BB w/ a/c
[Re: 70mopes]
#135366
10/14/08 09:59 AM
10/14/08 09:59 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,098
A Banana Republic near you.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,098
A Banana Republic near you.
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Quote:
Photo of original 1969 GTX 440 with A/C. Owner claimed motor had never been out of car. 
You wouldn't see the turquoise 440 in a 69 HP car , there were only 2 flavors of 440's and I'm sure a buyer would be a little upset that he got a 350HP engine in his car that was supposed to have a 375HP engine .
The turquoise 383 4 bbl was the 330HP version , why they put the engine with a slightly smaller cam under an A/C compressor is ????
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Re: Another engine color ? 69 HP BB w/ a/c
[Re: 3BIRDS1X]
#135368
10/15/08 02:17 PM
10/15/08 02:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,547
N.E. OHIO, USA
A12
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,547
N.E. OHIO, USA
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Quote:
I think it's because the 440 a/c only came with auto. 383's could be had 4-speed or auto and they wanted the lower horse with the 4-speeds and if one had it the other had to then to keep it easy for assembly line. Why 5 horse would be the break off point for the "safety factor" I don't know.
I would have thought that it had to do with vacuum at lower rpm's on the smaller displacement 383 engine with a high lift camshaft???? Doesn't the A/C have several vacuum demand sources? I'm probably way off here on that eh?  
MikeR
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Re: Another engine color ? 69 HP BB w/ a/c
[Re: A12]
#135369
10/15/08 02:34 PM
10/15/08 02:34 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,098
A Banana Republic near you.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,098
A Banana Republic near you.
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Quote:
Quote:
I think it's because the 440 a/c only came with auto. 383's could be had 4-speed or auto and they wanted the lower horse with the 4-speeds and if one had it the other had to then to keep it easy for assembly line. Why 5 horse would be the break off point for the "safety factor" I don't know.
I would have thought that it had to do with vacuum at lower rpm's on the smaller displacement 383 engine with a high lift camshaft???? Doesn't the A/C have several vacuum demand sources? I'm probably way off here on that eh?
MikeR
just for the A/C doors
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Re: Another engine color ? 69 HP BB w/ a/c
[Re: 75RoadRunner]
#135370
10/15/08 02:59 PM
10/15/08 02:59 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,786
Pauls69
super gas
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super gas
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,786
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Quote:
Quote:
69 440 with A/C is orange...
 69 383 A/C is tour. non A/C is orange.
my original 69 383HP, non-a/c engine was turquoise. engine had never been removed (until i acquired it) & had no evidence of a repainting.
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Re: Another engine color ? 69 HP BB w/ a/c
[Re: Pauls69]
#135371
10/15/08 04:04 PM
10/15/08 04:04 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,160
Texas
dannysbee
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,160
Texas
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Paul by any chance is your car a early car?
Getting old just means you were smarter than some and luckier than others.
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Re: Another engine color ? 69 HP BB w/ a/c
[Re: Pauls69]
#135372
10/15/08 04:14 PM
10/15/08 04:14 PM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 500
NoVa
ebodyseast
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 500
NoVa
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My first thread here on Moparts - in part -covered the variations for the 383 4bbl in 1970. AC/non A/C, auto/4 spd. Here are the engine & codes for the 1970 383 4bbl motors provided in this thread. 084 = 383/4, manual, a/c, painted blue, 330hp 085/38 = 383/4, auto, no a/c, blue, 330 hp 086 = 383/4, auto, a/c, blue, 330 hp 087 = 383/4, manual, no a/c, orange, 335 hp 088/42 = 383/4, auto, no a/c, orange, 335 hp 089 = 383/4, auto a/c, orange, 335 hp Here is a BCS - currently for sale on Ebay (Sylvain) - for a 1970 'Cuda 383 HT SPD A02. Notice it is for a non A/C car, also notice it is coded 085 for a 330 hp blue painted engine with a 38 Carter carb. Finding a 'Cuda or R/T with an 085/38 blue engine is probably a very hard thing to do...even back in the day when new. Now compare it to a near identical BCS for a '70 'Cuda 383 SPD (A13) of same plant & just 11 days later - BCS is for sale on Ebay as well. It has 088/42 (Holley) codes for an orange HP 335hp engine. Why did one get coded & built different then the other. They' re both auto and non A/C?!?! The answer may be there somewhere in the BCS. Fresh air hood vs non fresh air hood / ECS vs non ECS / something is there that may tell or offer even a clue. Paul69's turquoise '69 383HP non A/C above & those just like it is one of the engines that would be good for the Mopar hobby to be documented to verify what its engine & carb code is on BCS and what the correct color designation is. Maybe Paul69 can send in a pic of his engine.  What one might ask in addition to the intial question is what are the 383 & 440 engine codes for 1969, what are their carb codes & engine color designations for 1969. (I know just the man to ask - he's got a soft spot for 383 2bbls ) Then research the BCS (if any) for these codes for any cars in question.
Last edited by ebodyseast; 10/15/08 04:19 PM.
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Re: Another engine color ? 69 HP BB w/ a/c
[Re: Pauls69]
#135374
10/15/08 04:30 PM
10/15/08 04:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,098
A Banana Republic near you.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,098
A Banana Republic near you.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
69 440 with A/C is orange...
69 383 A/C is tour. non A/C is orange.
my original 69 383HP, non-a/c engine was turquoise. engine had never been removed (until i acquired it) & had no evidence of a repainting.
in WHAT car ?
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Re: Another engine color ? 69 HP BB w/ a/c
[Re: Pauls69]
#135376
10/15/08 06:03 PM
10/15/08 06:03 PM
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,948
Harlan, Iowa
69CoronetRT
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,948
Harlan, Iowa
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Quote:
Quote:
Paul by any chance is your car a early car?
possibly. iirc, i thought it stated that it was built in late Aug 1968? is that possible? i always just assumed that i read the vin incorrectly (i'm not much of a #'s guy, but did make sure that it was the original motor & swapped the tired 383 for a fresh 440).
it's a 69 charger, btw.
69 Chargers with 383 automatics recieved the turquoise 330 horse engine not the orange 335 HP.
69 model year production started in August of 68.
Seeking:
1969 St. Louis plant VINs, SPD, and VONs.
Over 2,000 thanks to you!
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Re: Another engine color ? 69 HP BB w/ a/c
[Re: Pauls69]
#135377
10/15/08 06:04 PM
10/15/08 06:04 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,160
Texas
dannysbee
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,160
Texas
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Paul could we get a picture of the vin on the pan rail of the block.
Getting old just means you were smarter than some and luckier than others.
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Re: Another engine color ? 69 HP BB w/ a/c
[Re: 69CoronetRT]
#135378
10/15/08 06:27 PM
10/15/08 06:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,786
Pauls69
super gas
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super gas
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,786
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Paul by any chance is your car a early car?
possibly. iirc, i thought it stated that it was built in late Aug 1968? is that possible? i always just assumed that i read the vin incorrectly (i'm not much of a #'s guy, but did make sure that it was the original motor & swapped the tired 383 for a fresh 440).
it's a 69 charger, btw.
69 Chargers with 383 automatics recieved the turquoise 330 horse engine not the orange 335 HP.
69 model year production started in August of 68.
so all 69 383HP/727 chargers came in turquoise, regardless of the production date?
i can take a pick of the engine & pan-rail, but it's stored offsite & won't be able to do it until the weekend. if 69CoronetRT is correct, it sounds like it's not an anomaly for the charger model though.
i guess i'm a little confused...do i have something unique or not w/ this engine? if so, what do you suggest i do w/ it? right now, it's laying in the corner of a garage in a garbage bag (maybe i shouldn't have typed that).
Last edited by Pauls69; 10/15/08 06:33 PM.
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Re: Another engine color ? 69 HP BB w/ a/c
[Re: Pauls69]
#135380
10/15/08 07:10 PM
10/15/08 07:10 PM
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,948
Harlan, Iowa
69CoronetRT
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,948
Harlan, Iowa
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Paul by any chance is your car a early car?
possibly. iirc, i thought it stated that it was built in late Aug 1968? is that possible? i always just assumed that i read the vin incorrectly (i'm not much of a #'s guy, but did make sure that it was the original motor & swapped the tired 383 for a fresh 440).
it's a 69 charger, btw.
69 Chargers with 383 automatics recieved the turquoise 330 horse engine not the orange 335 HP.
69 model year production started in August of 68.
so all 69 383HP/727 chargers came in turquoise, regardless of the production date?
i can take a pick of the engine & pan-rail, but it's stored offsite & won't be able to do it until the weekend. if 69CoronetRT is correct, it sounds like it's not an anomaly for the charger model though.
i guess i'm a little confused...do i have something unique or not w/ this engine? if so, what do you suggest i do w/ it? right now, it's laying in the corner of a garage in a garbage bag (maybe i shouldn't have typed that).
The answer to your question is "yes". 69 Chargers with automatics did not get the HP engine assembly. Your car has the correct engine. It is not an anomaly.
I would be interested in knowing if the car was built at the ST. Louis plant as I track cars built at that plant. I'm sure Chris at the 69 Charger registry would like to hear from you if you haven't contacted him already.
69 Charger Registry home page
Seeking:
1969 St. Louis plant VINs, SPD, and VONs.
Over 2,000 thanks to you!
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