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Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB????
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1348817
12/11/12 08:07 AM
12/11/12 08:07 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,155
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,155
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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Quote:
I've always looked at it this way... we all want light
cars because its a known fact that it requires less
HP/torque to move it X ET/speed... a BB is 100 lbs
heavier(round figure) and now days with all the stroker
stuff ifs not hard to build a 425+ ci SB so to me its
to build a light car(2600-2800 lbs) and save the weight
with the SB... they tend to handle better on the road
(with minimal suspension work) VS the BB... if
all I wanted was a drag car that goes straight for
cheap I'd go BB but on the street we tend to go red
light to red light and call it racing but being a street
car you have to think weight.. yes the old idea of
you cant beat displacement has its point... but I'm
POSITIVE I could put a 5.7 to 6.4 hemi in my Rampage
and go mid 9s and have a nice DD car.. those guys
with the new hemis are making some nice power....
by the way... I am saving up for one
When I go on the LX forums and read about stock shortblock eleven second slugs that weigh 4200+, and on a juice cam yet, I have to agree. A junk yard 5.7, stroker crank, and a 2x4 setup with a radical cam and overdrive will be impressive. When we get them done, I propose a match race! I'm in the Minneapolis area.
8.582, 160.18 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB????
[Re: gregsdart]
#1348818
12/11/12 08:15 AM
12/11/12 08:15 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Quote:
I've always looked at it this way... we all want light
cars because its a known fact that it requires less
HP/torque to move it X ET/speed... a BB is 100 lbs
heavier(round figure) and now days with all the stroker
stuff ifs not hard to build a 425+ ci SB so to me its
to build a light car(2600-2800 lbs) and save the weight
with the SB... they tend to handle better on the road
(with minimal suspension work) VS the BB... if
all I wanted was a drag car that goes straight for
cheap I'd go BB but on the street we tend to go red
light to red light and call it racing but being a street
car you have to think weight.. yes the old idea of
you cant beat displacement has its point... but I'm
POSITIVE I could put a 5.7 to 6.4 hemi in my Rampage
and go mid 9s and have a nice DD car.. those guys
with the new hemis are making some nice power....
by the way... I am saving up for one
When I go on the LX forums and read about stock shortblock eleven second slugs that weigh 4200+, and on a juice cam yet, I have to agree. A junk yard 5.7, stroker crank, and a 2x4 setup with a radical cam and overdrive will be impressive. When we get them done, I propose a match race! I'm in the Minneapolis area.
Hell I'm wondering what a completely stock 5.7 would
push my Rampage... remember I'm just looking for 10.0
to max 9.8
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Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB????
[Re: sixpackgut]
#1348821
12/11/12 12:04 PM
12/11/12 12:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,810
Portage,michigan
B3422W5
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,810
Portage,michigan
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Mopar Billy... Lol If I was to build a 10.30's 2900 pound small block I would start with cnc eddies by Modern. Perhaps even the airwolfs after they have had some real world testing. 904 Victor 950 1.875 headersP Flat tappet 260-266 ish 600+ gross lift At 10.5-11 compression this should run your number pretty easily I say this based on a combination I ran a few years 3400 pound A body( all steel, bench seat , mild steel cage,300 pound driver ( me lol) 727 Stage 2 not fully ported eddies Small tube Tti headers Weiand excellerator 1025 race demon 4150 carb 11.8 compression 260-266 598/623 lift flat tappet on a 107 in at 104 This went 10.70's and 80's driving it everywhere I suspect knocking 500 pounds out of it, fully porting the heads, and swapping out the 727 for a 904(plus running the better bigger tube headers it would have run close to10 flat Knocking a point of compression out of it might slow it down a tenth or perhaps a hair more This all is with a 4 inch crank . I doubt your 3.79 crank would yield much difference to the equation ETA I later pulled the Eddie top end off that shortblock( used same flat tappet cam) and added W5 heads and headers and a modified victor W2 intake Brett did up, and with zero other changes the car ran 10.38 at 129. This still at 3400 pounds with the 727 tranny Grenaded that when the cast stroker crank let go one night at the track So in my mind, there Is a reliable and street able way to run probably better than10.30's with a good casting head. 
Last edited by B3422W5; 12/11/12 12:19 PM.
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight
418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam, footbrake street/strip car
1.41 best 60 foot
6.54 @ 105.20
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Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB????
[Re: ksj]
#1348822
12/11/12 01:37 PM
12/11/12 01:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,131
Amarillo, Texas
BBR
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,131
Amarillo, Texas
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Quote:
Cracks me up that the comparable classes between SB and BB on DW the SB cars are quicker.
The Street Race BB classes were soft this year in my opinion. I fully expected some mid-high 8 sec cars to be in my class. But typically when guys start running that quick, unless they are specifically trying to fit into a DW class, they will have done things to the car that bump them to a different class.
I know Jake has a ton of money invested in his car. His engine was built in NC. Mine was built by me and my 7 y/o kid. Hell, my whole car probably cost less than his engine. Different strokes for different folks. I suppose my 'bolt together' engine underperforms for what it is, but I have no desire to run 9's and the added stuff that brings along with it. Besides, I like pulling into the track, changing tires, removing the air filter and being ready to run. I'm lazy like that and I like my full interior.
Street SB's can certainly be built to run in the 9's, but you're probably going to spend way more money and turn way more rpm to get there, so the investment over time is probably going to be more. Doing more with less cubes, certainly does tickle the "cool" funny bone we all have, but for my car, I'll stick to my school bus motor.
Drag Week 2011 - 77th place - DD
Drag Week 2012 - 2nd place SRBB N/A
Drag Week 2014 - Kapooya
RMRW 2018
RMRW 2020
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Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB????
[Re: TheOtherDodge]
#1348824
12/11/12 02:04 PM
12/11/12 02:04 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
What stall converters and gear is every one running?
And a 2900 lb car is pretty light, so count out B and E bodies unless you have a gutted interior, lexan, etc.. Even an A body down at that weight is hard!
My stall is 5000 and I'm running 4.10 gears... and
2900 isnt really hard to do in a A-body... my old
69 valiant 100 was 2900 stock with the /6 but it was
a bare bones car
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Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB????
[Re: TheOtherDodge]
#1348825
12/11/12 02:18 PM
12/11/12 02:18 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,810
Portage,michigan
B3422W5
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,810
Portage,michigan
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Quote:
What stall converters and gear is every one running?
And a 2900 lb car is pretty light, so count out B and E bodies unless you have a gutted interior, lexan, etc.. Even an A body down at that weight is hard!
I think Billy has a 2850-2900 pound car and wondered what small block would run10.30 in that car using his x block, 3.79 crank and 904 trams
I said modern cnc eddies, proper flat tappet etc would get him there
At that weight 575 horse or less should suffice, maybe even a hair less
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight
418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam, footbrake street/strip car
1.41 best 60 foot
6.54 @ 105.20
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Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB????
[Re: fishy340]
#1348826
12/11/12 02:26 PM
12/11/12 02:26 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,534
bronx n.y
one bad fish
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,534
bronx n.y
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Quote:
This thread is the perfect way to start a bb vs sb grudge event!!!  i love it.
let me know so i could put some of these big blocks in a head lock. lol
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Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB????
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1348827
12/11/12 02:26 PM
12/11/12 02:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,945
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,945
Weddington, N.C.
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I've said before the small block cylinder head is a superior (roughly 10 years later) and more efficient design; for a conventional 440 big block to have the same port and valve area to displacement ratio as a conventional 340 small block, they would have come from the factory with about a 2.19" intake valve and nearly max wedge size ports....not to mention still without the superior valve angle and valves that open on the bore centerline. I always wondered why someone didn't just "scale-up" the the small block head design and adapt it to the B/RB deck....besides needing different valve notches, how hard could that be? not to mention the B/RB has a much better lifter bore angle than the WTF 59 degree of the small block. As a result, with aftermarket heads It's easier to hit 1.5hp per cube with a small block but that only gets you so far becuase there's a practical limit to the cubes (roughly 475" is the "practical" limit) with a 4.22" bore and 4.25" stroke. An RB big block Mega can go "easily" to 572 or even 605-ish with a raised cam tunnel but becuse of the limits of the Shallow wedge heads (assuming a streetable CR max) it's not always the best bang for the buck. Also the packaging for a BB is an issue, it's really only practical  to consider an A body for mid nines, the big block adds all the weight on the nose and (unless you run a glide) the 727 adds weight too. When I sum it all up the best 'prctical" (ie, trying to do it on a reasonable budget) mid nine combo to me that would still be streetable would be an R block 460-ish motor with max ported w5's in a sub 2800 pound 67-68 A body notch with a race prepped low gear set 904 and about a 4.30 gear. Second place would be a 511 low deck with B1's or max ported -1's. both motors would have a tight lobe center roller with about 275 @.050 and .670-ish lift on a 12:1 short block with an oversized cooling system. both would have a 'tight' 8" vert with ~4800 stall/5500 flash...it's really tough to hook a 5500 stall on any type of true street tire no matter how well the combo hooks. And as far as the hook the small block is going to have a huge built-in 60' advantage but I think a well tuned BB could just about make that up by high gear with the right guy picking the parts. You can go bigger on the cams and more stall etc but for most people you'd be wrenching on it all the time and it would really just be a race car you're driving on the street. My 380cfm Chapman CNC max wedge headed 517 was once destined for a 760-ish HP 9.70-ish 67 A body, but my plans got diverted and the motro got detuned to right around 710 but with a massively broad street torque curve to move a 3750 pound B body with 3.54:1 gears. That said you realize how easy a streetable low 10 combination is by simply scaling down the cubes, block and heads,  Btw....aren't HEMI's Big blocks??  Chip's 9 second 572 is street driven and one of the most impressive cars I've ever seen in terms of drag strip performance and REAL street manners. Put that combo in a much lighter A body and there you go.
Last edited by Streetwize; 12/11/12 02:49 PM.
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Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB????
[Re: n20mstr]
#1348828
12/11/12 02:30 PM
12/11/12 02:30 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,534
bronx n.y
one bad fish
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,534
bronx n.y
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Quote:
The original post was...CAN IT BE DONE
You guys have turned it into another SB vs BB thread
IF YOUR SAMLLBLOCKS are SO FAST....
WHY ARENT YOU SHOWING UP TO ANY OF JOSH'S RACES????
The only fast one ive seen so far is Bill May and Leon..
THeres my 100% true statement ...LOL
Why dont you all answer what the guy asked???
YES IT CAN BE DONE WITH A SMALLBLOCK....
Spend the money in the right places, go do it and have fun !
one reason its to far 4 me got. nothing to do with anything else
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Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB????
[Re: Thumperdart]
#1348831
12/11/12 02:42 PM
12/11/12 02:42 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
sixpackgut
Drag Week Mod Champion
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Drag Week Mod Champion
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
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Quote:
Quote:
What stall converters and gear is every one running?
And a 2900 lb car is pretty light, so count out B and E bodies unless you have a gutted interior, lexan, etc.. Even an A body down at that weight is hard!
I run an 8"5000+ vert and have 4.11`s w/a 29x13.5 Hoosier qtp and fwy driving gets old quick like 70-75mph at 3000`s old. 
5300 9" from Lenny and 3.55 gears for me, 325 tire
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135
Follow @g3hemiswap on instagram
performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs
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Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB????
[Re: sixpackgut]
#1348832
12/11/12 03:09 PM
12/11/12 03:09 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,597
Topeka Kansas
ksj
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,597
Topeka Kansas
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
This thread is the perfect way to start a bb vs sb grudge event!!! i love it.
let me know so i could put some of these big blocks in a head lock. lol
why don't you two guys take your cars to Drag Week and represent for the small block mopar guys
trust me, we would gladly be routing for you guys
don't talk about it, be about it
X2.Having gone on DW 4 times its been great to see the increase in the number of Mopars attending.More the merrier.  
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Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB????
[Re: ksj]
#1348833
12/11/12 04:17 PM
12/11/12 04:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,610
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,610
Las Vegas
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Since we are on a ole SB v BB debate I want to know something. Just where are all these bad azz SB Mopars at the track? I RARELY see a SB Mopar running in the 9's in a door car, let alone the 8's. Oh I know they exist some really fast ones in Comp and SS but those are fairly exatoc pieces. Just curious. I hear all the crowing going on but rarely see any of these allusive beasts out there. FWIW many of the BB Mopars are very underwhelming as well but at least I see 8 second ones.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB????
[Re: Thumperdart]
#1348834
12/11/12 04:22 PM
12/11/12 04:22 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Quote:
What stall converters and gear is every one running?
And a 2900 lb car is pretty light, so count out B and E bodies unless you have a gutted interior, lexan, etc.. Even an A body down at that weight is hard!
I run an 8"5000+ vert and have 4.11`s w/a 29x13.5 Hoosier qtp and fwy driving gets old quick like 70-75mph at 3000`s old.
Thats where the OD comes in handy
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This is a fun little game isn`t it? 
