MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB????

Posted By: Lil Demon

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/10/12 06:32 PM

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to run mid 9's in a street car.. (I'm guessing not a tube chasis light weght car) you are going to need a ton of motor. You sound like it's easy as cake and cheap to build a 9 second car. It will take almost 700hp to make a 3000lb car run 9.50's. It will need big cubic inches, expensive heads, big solid roller cam (and everything that goes w/ one), 4500+ stall, tall gears, overdrive trans and so on. That equals big money and will be hard on parts. So I guess it depends on what you mean by driver. A boosted car will drive much better and have a longer/stronger power band. I guess it's just where you want to spend the cash. Neither will be cheap.

I agree. To run NA well into the 9s (not just good air, down hill, with a tail wind 9s) it is both challenging and expensive - otherwise everyone would be doing it. And what I mean by that is everyone with a timeslip - not a guy sitting in a parking lot at a cruise night saying he runs 9s.

To run 9s NA you are going to need hp, efficient converter, and compression - none of those like the street as they all build heat. Additionally, the only way to know if you are running 9s is to take it to a track, which means you have to pass tech for sub 9.99 - which means cage, license, and all of the other safety equipment that goes along with it.

My experience - street parts don't like the track, and track parts don't like the street. If you are trying to do both - then all you have is a series of compromises across the board.

Sixpackgut has done it with his Cuda, but I think Ray'd agree it wasn't cheap or easy - and has been a long time coming.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/10/12 06:54 PM

with the 3.55s, my car was running around 77mph at 3300rpms. under 3000 rpm the car didn't "feel" as good. I figured this was because that is where the multi spark stopped. I have always wondered if the multi spark was really worth it. with my timming turned way down, the A/F was on the rich side during Drag Week which I tried to lean the carbs out but when I put the timing back to where it would belong the A/F would be right on

moral of the story is I don't have high dollar anything in my car, with the timing turned way down, I still managed a 9.90 at 139 and my hood blew up and broke on that pass so I'm not sure it was a full pass.

If you look at the number of small blocks running mid 9s during Drag Week you will realize the number of cars was zero and their combos didn't look to economical to me

When running with my buddy in his 52 PU we seen the
same thing... when running at about 80 the engine
ran smoother and got better mileage BUT what we figured
is that its getting more into the torque curve and
the response on the pedal was better due to the torque

Posted By: one bad fish

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/10/12 07:43 PM

well its is simple it also depends on your engine builder not every one knows what there doing plain and simple put 4 the same price i could get a small block to run mid 9's on pump gas

Posted By: HEMI472

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/10/12 07:59 PM

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well its is simple it also depends on your engine builder not every one knows what there doing plain and simple put 4 the same price i could get a small block to run mid 9's on pump gas

one bad fish
what does your car run now?? what size is the motor???

Posted By: rickraw

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/10/12 11:35 PM

i'm not quite in the mid 9's,(9.61@138), 440sb, w9's by ryan, 11-1 pump gas. i can drive anywhere.

Posted By: fishy340

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/11/12 12:04 AM

My sb went 9.58 at 140 w tti headers,4150 carb,3.91 gears w 5000 stall on sm tire and caltracs on 93 sunoco.If u want to go mid 9s yes its a pretty stout motor...but not like some suggests...#1 rule heads heads and heads without that u cant do jack. Indy,w5 or better will do it pretty easy if YOUR car is right. All n all 15.000 to 17.000 will getter done at 3000lbs.ps dont see many if any bb's driving around here doin it so i cant say its easy w a bb.

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/11/12 12:22 AM

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My sb went 9.58 at 140 w tti headers,4150 carb,3.91 gears w 5000 stall on sm tire and caltracs on 93 sunoco.If u want to go mid 9s yes its a pretty stout motor...but not like some suggests...#1 rule heads heads and heads without that u cant do jack. Indy,w5 or better will do it pretty easy if YOUR car is right. All n all 15.000 to 17.000 will getter done at 3000lbs.ps dont see many if any bb's driving around here doin it so i cant say its easy w a bb.

NICE............BB`s can do it easier in my opinion and if I had bought a good head instead of the rpm`s, I`d easily be there too...........

Some of the ported smallblock heads make mine look weak so WHEN I step up to some 350-370cfm intake ports, the fun will begin...............

Posted By: fatman

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/11/12 12:31 AM

I havn't tested since my engine upgrade, but old combo went best of 10.19@131 at 4060 lbs, 3.73 gear, pump gas. Dyno'd by RyanJ as run in car prior to uprade: 680tq/726hp. Now dyno says 740tq/856, but blows through the converter so I'll have to wait for Spring. Thing drives great on the 60 mile trip to BSD, and now I think Ryan hates Hemis a little less

Posted By: Darryls-Demon

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/11/12 03:18 AM

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if you want to drive it anywhere then gear/tire size and converter needs to be part of your quest for mid 9s because there is no way I would have been able to deal with my car with anything more than a 3.55 gear during drag week

Ray.splurge for a GV and get rid of the 3.55s. That and a cage update.

I wouldnt run DW without a OD trans... can it be done...
sure but the OD sure helps to lower the rpm during
the drive.... I went with the 518 trans which cost
ALOT less than a GV and its a touch more OD.. then
I went with 4.10 gears

with the 3.55s, my car was running around 77mph at 3300rpms. under 3000 rpm the car didn't "feel" as good. I figured this was because that is where the multi spark stopped. I have always wondered if the multi spark was really worth it. with my timming turned way down, the A/F was on the rich side during Drag Week which I tried to lean the carbs out but when I put the timing back to where it would belong the A/F would be right on

moral of the story is I don't have high dollar anything in my car, with the timing turned way down, I still managed a 9.90 at 139 and my hood blew up and broke on that pass so I'm not sure it was a full pass.

If you look at the number of small blocks running mid 9s during Drag Week you will realize the number of cars was zero and their combos didn't look to economical to me

Jakes 67 Chevelle ran in the 9s during Dragweek this year, he was the only one doing so in the SB street race N/A class and his car weighs over 3400lbs.
BUT he has spent Big Bucks on his combo, like 6k on the trans and converter, 488 gear.
Now some info on the motor, 402SB chevy with 23 degree heads 11.1 compression that he shifts at 8500RPMs. He changed the spark plugs and the oil every day. He also checked the valve spring lash every day and would check the springs. Oh the cam in the motor has .866 of lift.
The place that built the motor put it on a spinaton to make sure the valve train would live on the street and the track.

Attached picture 7497965-MG_4510-650x433.jpg

Attached picture 7497965-MG_4510-650x433.jpg

Posted By: B3422W5

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/11/12 03:29 AM

Thumper
BB Eddie heads are at least as good if not better than a W5 or a 230 indy small block head.

I have honestly seen enough cut up and lightened A bodies at the track with stroked big blocks in them running 10.50's to make me about puke... Lol
I drove my 3350 pound W5 headed 9.80's car around on the street all the time.
I just see many( not yours) big blocks that are major underachievers at the track
Not all, mind you, but a disgustingly high amount

Posted By: n20mstr

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/11/12 04:01 AM

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Thumper
BB Eddie heads are at least as good if not better than a W5 or a 230 indy small block head.

I have honestly seen enough cut up and lightened A bodies at the track with stroked big blocks in them running 10.50's to make me about puke... Lol
I drove my 3350 pound W5 headed 9.80's car around on the street all the time.
I just see many( not yours) big blocks that are major underachievers at the track
Not all, mind you, but a disgustingly high amount

THIS has to be the funniest $hit i have ever read....^

Posted By: B3422W5

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/11/12 04:03 AM

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Thumper
BB Eddie heads are at least as good if not better than a W5 or a 230 indy small block head.

I have honestly seen enough cut up and lightened A bodies at the track with stroked big blocks in them running 10.50's to make me about puke... Lol
I drove my 3350 pound W5 headed 9.80's car around on the street all the time.
I just see many( not yours) big blocks that are major underachievers at the track
Not all, mind you, but a disgustingly high amount

THIS has to be the funniest $hit i have ever read....^

And 100% true

Posted By: moeflo

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/11/12 04:06 AM

Use a junkyard LS-1. It will run 8-teens at 170+ dead stock. And the entire package will cost under $3.00

Posted By: n20mstr

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/11/12 04:11 AM

The original post was...CAN IT BE DONE

You guys have turned it into another SB vs BB thread

IF YOUR SAMLLBLOCKS are SO FAST....

WHY ARENT YOU SHOWING UP TO ANY OF JOSH'S RACES????

The only fast one ive seen so far is Bill May and Leon..

THeres my 100% true statement ...LOL

Why dont you all answer what the guy asked???
YES IT CAN BE DONE WITH A SMALLBLOCK....
Spend the money in the right places, go do it and have fun !

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/11/12 04:27 AM

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Thumper
BB Eddie heads are at least as good if not better than a W5 or a 230 indy small block head.

I have honestly seen enough cut up and lightened A bodies at the track with stroked big blocks in them running 10.50's to make me about puke... Lol
I drove my 3350 pound W5 headed 9.80's car around on the street all the time.
I just see many( not yours) big blocks that are major underachievers at the track
Not all, mind you, but a disgustingly high amount

I hear what you`re saying and agree SOME are slugs for sure. I don`t claim to have the fastest anything but my junk out runs some and is slower than others plus, again 9.79 was my first pass of the trailer and trust me a 9.59 will be here soon enuff............so yes, it CAN be done...........$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Posted By: MoparBilly

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/11/12 04:40 AM

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I have honestly seen enough cut up and lightened A bodies at the track with stroked big blocks in them running 10.50's to make me about puke. I just see a disgustingly high amount big blocks that are major underachievers at the track.

I drove my 3350 pound W5 headed 9.80's car around on the street all the time.

This is exactly the kind of statement which causes me to view most of the small block homers on here with a lack of credibility. This combined with ricraw and onebad's total lack of constuctive input, just blanket one liners, very little specifics.

So a gutted 3000lb. Duster with a 440 and 590 solid cam and 1500$ worth of topend runs 10.50, year after year after year and it disgusts you because you've got a 10 timeslips in the nines at 350 lbs more, 20 inches less and a 15000$ time bomb that may spring a leak at any time??

OK, ok, Mike, the OP said he didn't want any negative, pithin match style posts, and in deference to him, I will try to comply.

First,
The fantasy of a Mid 9 second street car is much better than the reality, and everything is subjective.
"Drive it around without much problems", Mike says.
What does that mean to the individual?
Is an oil change every 500 miles acceptable?
New set of roller lifters every 2500 miles acceptable?
Keeping an eye on the temp and oil guages constantly acceptable?
Do you expect to drive through the gate, straight up to the burnout box, and go 9's after a 75-150 mile drive, or does changing the plugs, rejetting the carb, dropping the pipes, or bolting on slicks seem like reasonable or acceptable concessions??

Now we make the Fantasy tougher by wanting it NA. Sheez! those gutted bigblock A-bodies that disgust B3422W5 at the track would easily be mid-9 second street cars with a good nitrous tune, a gear change and an exhaust system.

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/11/12 04:49 AM

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I have honestly seen enough cut up and lightened A bodies at the track with stroked big blocks in them running 10.50's to make me about puke. I just see a disgustingly high amount big blocks that are major underachievers at the track.

I drove my 3350 pound W5 headed 9.80's car around on the street all the time.

This is exactly the kind of statement which causes me to view most of the small block homers on here with a lack of credibility. This combined with ricraw and onebad's total lack of constuctive input, just blanket one liners, very little specifics.

So a gutted 3000lb. Duster with a 440 and 590 solid cam and 1500$ worth of topend runs 10.50, year after year after year and it disgusts you because you've got a 10 timeslips in the nines at 350 lbs more, 20 inches less and a 15000$ time bomb that may spring a leak at any time??

OK, ok, Mike, the OP said he didn't want any negative, pithin match style posts, and in deference to him, I will try to comply.

First,
The fantasy of a Mid 9 second street car is much better than the reality, and everything is subjective.
"Drive it around without much problems", Mike says.
What does that mean to the individual?
Is an oil change every 500 miles acceptable?
New set of roller lifters every 2500 miles acceptable?
Keeping an eye on the temp and oil guages constantly acceptable?
Do you expect to drive through the gate, straight up to the burnout box, and go 9's after a 75-150 mile drive, or does changing the plugs, rejetting the carb, dropping the pipes, or bolting on slicks seem like reasonable or acceptable concessions??

Now we make the Fantasy tougher by wanting it NA. Sheez! those gutted bigblock A-bodies that disgust B3422W5 at the track would easily be mid-9 second street cars with a good nitrous tune, a gear change and an exhaust system.

Ya, I`m STILL waiting on the "weight"of these so called 9-second street cars w/a baby motor and the chevelle above, gimme a break w/all of that amount of maintainance..............too funny.

Posted By: B3422W5

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/11/12 05:03 AM

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Quote:

I have honestly seen enough cut up and lightened A bodies at the track with stroked big blocks in them running 10.50's to make me about puke. I just see a disgustingly high amount big blocks that are major underachievers at the track.

I drove my 3350 pound W5 headed 9.80's car around on the street all the time.

This is exactly the kind of statement which causes me to view most of the small block homers on here with a lack of credibility. This combined with ricraw and onebad's total lack of constuctive input, just blanket one liners, very little specifics.

So a gutted 3000lb. Duster with a 440 and 590 solid cam and 1500$ worth of topend runs 10.50, year after year after year and it disgusts you because you've got a 10 timeslips in the nines at 350 lbs more, 20 inches less and a 15000$ time bomb that may spring a leak at any time??

OK, ok, Mike, the OP said he didn't want any negative, pithin match style posts, and in deference to him, I will try to comply.

First,
The fantasy of a Mid 9 second street car is much better than the reality, and everything is subjective.
"Drive it around without much problems", Mike says.
What does that mean to the individual?
Is an oil change every 500 miles acceptable?
New set of roller lifters every 2500 miles acceptable?
Keeping an eye on the temp and oil guages constantly acceptable?
Do you expect to drive through the gate, straight up to the burnout box, and go 9's after a 75-150 mile drive, or does changing the plugs, rejetting the carb, dropping the pipes, or bolting on slicks seem like reasonable or acceptable concessions??

Now we make the Fantasy tougher by wanting it NA. Sheez! those gutted bigblock A-bodies that disgust B3422W5 at the track would easily be mid-9 second street cars with a good nitrous tune, a gear change and an exhaust system.

Actually that 422 motor I raced LOTS for 7 years with one freshen, and it ran 9's scores of times always through mufflers, with s/s springs, and stock suspension
Current owner freshened it again, races it at 3200 pounds and has been 140mph with it
N/A. Been together 10 years now with 2 freshens, but thanks for playing.
590 called 440's are fine, it's the roller 500 inch motors I crack up about
You need to go to a Mopar only race I guess and watch 300 or 400 bracket cars in pro and super pro cars go down the track overs few years sample size and you will see for yourself..... Tons of BB cars in the 10's with big motors and cut up cars

Some run good, real good, but lots and lots of slugs

Posted By: Triple Threat

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/11/12 05:09 AM

Yes it can be done with either. Both have their ups and downs.

Generally speaking its going to be easier done with a big block if budget is a big concern. Cubic inches is cubic inches and there is a reason all the guys doing it with small blocks have nearly 100 more cubes than factory. Small block will be a little lighter and usually easier packaged in a duster, but its going to take a few more "exotic" parts to get it done.

Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/11/12 05:19 AM

I know lots of guys that keep there cars in the mid 10's for lack of proper safety equipment and they don't want to spend the money it would take to do so. I myself put steel doors on my Duster over the Winter to slow my high 9 second pump gas small block down to low 10's. I love running 8's in the Daytona but the Duster is a fun, simple car to race. I throw 5 gallon of 93 octane gas in it and go racing. Single layer coat and wind down the windows after the pass. I know for a fact that you can run 8's-9's a lot cheaper with a big block than you can with a small block.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/11/12 05:57 AM

Lets get back to reality .. the OP wants to go MID 9s
in a streetcar... I will assume on premium pump gas...
OK... lighten the car to 2800lbs-2900lbs... thats not
that hard from where he is(IF YOU SPEND SOME TIME)
so if he has that weight... 620HP will do it.. for
the street I would run OD... GV is a real nice set up
but cost $3000... I went with a 518... bolts to a SB
without anything.. cost me... $300 for the trans (at
the bone yard), $110 for the freshening kit, I changed
the input and pump so I could use a non lock up high
stall conv $120(for input and pump)... thats it for
the trans.. a 4.10 gear and I went with 295/55 tires..
once I dial it in should be 10.0 or a bit quicker
but I dont have 620hp.. I have 550hp and this should
be a decent street machine(I will see next spring)
LIGHTER IS ALWAYS BETTER

Posted By: ksj

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/11/12 06:49 AM

We were quite surprised while putting Crows Dart together.Best of 10.03 with a M.t. rather than an AT.It will never have an automatic in it.The Cuda went 10.30s and the Dart should go 9.80s just in the difference in weight but its a whole different animal IMHO.People just dont know how low maintenance that car is.Could he turn the wick up?Yes.But we get more fun out of watching Jake change oil in his Chevelle.LOL.Could someone gut the heck out of a 67-69 Valaiant and go low 9s and go the distance on DragWeek? yes.Would they be paranoid?Probly.Same as someone else with a BB wanting to run 8s in BB/Na.Cracks me up that the comparable classes between SB and BB on DW the SB cars are quicker.

Posted By: Triple Threat

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/11/12 06:57 AM

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Cracks me up that the comparable classes between SB and BB on DW the SB cars are quicker.

I noticed this as well. Is there any rhyme or reason to why this is?

Posted By: MoparBilly

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/11/12 06:58 AM

I'm not talking literally B3, just perspective, I guess. I've been to 75+ Mopar only races in the last 20 years, (first was a little 1 day deal in Tulsa in 1992). YES, I've seen the same tons of 10 second cut-up cars, I just never felt that they were slugs just because mine was faster. As I once told a friend, "I've never made a boring 10 second run, enjoyed all of them".

So, I'll give you my perspective, and maybe all you smallblock guru's can help me out.
A big block guy forever, been in the 8's with a nothin' solid cammed 440/eddie headed motor and plate system, been 9's NA with everything from an SR headed 440 to a 440-1 stroker, all of them with little to no reliabilty issues.

Then I fall in love with a cute little 62 Valiant that a friend has been bracket racing. The car goes 10.90's in the winter and 11.20's in the summer, but after 5 or 6 years he parks it, 5 or 6 more years later, I finally buy it.
It's a 4 bolt X block, standard bore, with stock rods, and ross pistons sticking .040 out of the hole on a nice early MP 3.79 stroke crank, upon re-building it I tossed the old MP 296-557, and went with a Hughes solid 260-264/587-594 which I had ground on a 110 lsa 'cause I'm a nitrous junkie. The stock heads had been ported massively by an ex SuperStock racer and stuffed with 2.05-1.60 valves with an M-1 and a 750 annular discharge carb. I just had everything freshened, and dumped the 1008's for a set of cometic head gaskets. Swapped out the 4.88s and put 4.30s, and put a Griner brake in low gear set 904.
It went 10.70-122 with a 130lb jockey behind the wheel. 10.89-121 was my best, with 11.10's in less than favorable conditions. The skinny driver put it in the wall a year later, and I decided upon tackling the rebuild that it would be a street car from then on. So, since then it has gotten, new wheels and tires, dynamat and new carpet, new tubular K-member and Qa-1 adjustable aluminum shocks at all 4 corners, and exhaust. 3.89 gears are added, but it retains the spool and ladder bars.

So I go on Drag Week in the Modified NA class and drive 1400 miles in a week, and Average 11.44, getting soundly trounced by sixpackgut's simple, straightforward BB car. I had borrowed a 950 carb, that required massive jet changes between street and track, and never ran close to the MPH of the old carb, so I had planned a return to the 750 annular when I got home, but alas, one of the 40 year old ported stock heads had enough of all that cruising at 210 degrees, and started sucking water.

So here I sit. I can take the beating that a 2900 lb. ladder bar/ spool car with plastic racing buckets can dish out, but I want a decent time slip for my troubles! I'm not as greedy as Mike..seriously, 10.30-10.40, NA would be fine, and then there is always a plate system on any ride of mine.

So, I have a full W-5 topend...rockers, intake, but the heads have been run hard, by a friend of mine, and he sold them to me cheap, because he was tired of repairing water leaks. Epoxy in the roofs, If it was a race car, I'd chance it...street car, I'm scared to death!
W-2's? I'd rather go with aluminum, but what? I get on Moparts and hear horror stories of Indy 360-1 CNC heads leaking, I talk to tons of racers claiming porosity problems with W-5 stuff, and even the same story on Indy 360-2 stuff. Everybody loves thier Eddy's, but is that enough to get me there without killer compression and a roller cam?

The 230 low deck block, and MCH ported stealths I have sitting around are looking better and better, I know a 470 solid cammed flat-top Big block would run 10.0's, be reliable, and nearly run 8's on the hose, just resisting cutting the little car up to shoehorn it in there.

So lay it out for me, how do I get there? Preferably without throwing the 3.79 crank in the trash. I mean if Mid-9's are easy without anything exotic, surely these small block guru's can cook me up a solid cammed, 3.79 stoke combo to go 10.30? Just has to putt down the road on pump gas, I'll pour in the good stuff when I get to the track! Also, I'm not a dedicated Small block homer, so make sure I can screw it togather for only a grand or so more than what that 470 will set me back.

Attached picture 7498273-drag-week-2012-final-day-saturday-tulsa-7575.jpg

Attached picture 7498273-drag-week-2012-final-day-saturday-tulsa-7575.jpg

Posted By: ksj

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/11/12 07:14 AM

Number sent.Just a headsup. He over builds to a point but he always finishes and the same shortblock has been in there for 3-4 years with no upgrades.Thats why we watch Jake work on his car.LOL.

Posted By: sixpackgut

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/11/12 07:27 AM

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Cracks me up that the comparable classes between SB and BB on DW the SB cars are quicker.

I noticed this as well. Is there any rhyme or reason to why this is?

guys with no money build big blocks that they can shift at 5800 and cant afford or unwilling to change oil every 6 hours

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/11/12 07:58 AM

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Cracks me up that the comparable classes between SB and BB on DW the SB cars are quicker.

I noticed this as well. Is there any rhyme or reason to why this is?

guys with no money build big blocks that they can shift at 5800 and cant afford or unwilling to change oil every 6 hours

Try 7500 on a stock 413 crank and 13+ year old chevy rods.........and yes, I`m poor...............not for long. Congrats again Ray........

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/11/12 08:23 AM

I've always looked at it this way... we all want light
cars because its a known fact that it requires less
HP/torque to move it X ET/speed... a BB is 100 lbs
heavier(round figure) and now days with all the stroker
stuff ifs not hard to build a 425+ ci SB so to me its
to build a light car(2600-2800 lbs) and save the weight
with the SB... they tend to handle better on the road
(with minimal suspension work) VS the BB... if
all I wanted was a drag car that goes straight for
cheap I'd go BB but on the street we tend to go red
light to red light and call it racing but being a street
car you have to think weight.. yes the old idea of
you cant beat displacement has its point... but I'm
POSITIVE I could put a 5.7 to 6.4 hemi in my Rampage
and go mid 9s and have a nice DD car.. those guys
with the new hemis are making some nice power....
by the way... I am saving up for one

Posted By: fishy340

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/11/12 12:55 PM

This thread is the perfect way to start a bb vs sb grudge event!!!

i love it.

Posted By: gregsdart

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/11/12 01:07 PM

Quote:

I've always looked at it this way... we all want light
cars because its a known fact that it requires less
HP/torque to move it X ET/speed... a BB is 100 lbs
heavier(round figure) and now days with all the stroker
stuff ifs not hard to build a 425+ ci SB so to me its
to build a light car(2600-2800 lbs) and save the weight
with the SB... they tend to handle better on the road
(with minimal suspension work) VS the BB... if
all I wanted was a drag car that goes straight for
cheap I'd go BB but on the street we tend to go red
light to red light and call it racing but being a street
car you have to think weight.. yes the old idea of
you cant beat displacement has its point... but I'm
POSITIVE I could put a 5.7 to 6.4 hemi in my Rampage
and go mid 9s and have a nice DD car.. those guys
with the new hemis are making some nice power....
by the way... I am saving up for one

When I go on the LX forums and read about stock shortblock eleven second slugs that weigh 4200+, and on a juice cam yet, I have to agree. A junk yard 5.7, stroker crank, and a 2x4 setup with a radical cam and overdrive will be impressive. When we get them done, I propose a match race! I'm in the Minneapolis area.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/11/12 01:15 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I've always looked at it this way... we all want light
cars because its a known fact that it requires less
HP/torque to move it X ET/speed... a BB is 100 lbs
heavier(round figure) and now days with all the stroker
stuff ifs not hard to build a 425+ ci SB so to me its
to build a light car(2600-2800 lbs) and save the weight
with the SB... they tend to handle better on the road
(with minimal suspension work) VS the BB... if
all I wanted was a drag car that goes straight for
cheap I'd go BB but on the street we tend to go red
light to red light and call it racing but being a street
car you have to think weight.. yes the old idea of
you cant beat displacement has its point... but I'm
POSITIVE I could put a 5.7 to 6.4 hemi in my Rampage
and go mid 9s and have a nice DD car.. those guys
with the new hemis are making some nice power....
by the way... I am saving up for one

When I go on the LX forums and read about stock shortblock eleven second slugs that weigh 4200+, and on a juice cam yet, I have to agree. A junk yard 5.7, stroker crank, and a 2x4 setup with a radical cam and overdrive will be impressive. When we get them done, I propose a match race! I'm in the Minneapolis area.

Hell I'm wondering what a completely stock 5.7 would
push my Rampage... remember I'm just looking for 10.0
to max 9.8

Posted By: sixpackgut

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/11/12 02:27 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Cracks me up that the comparable classes between SB and BB on DW the SB cars are quicker.

I noticed this as well. Is there any rhyme or reason to why this is?

guys with no money build big blocks that they can shift at 5800 and cant afford or unwilling to change oil every 6 hours

Try 7500 on a stock 413 crank and 13+ year old chevy rods.........and yes, I`m poor...............not for long. Congrats again Ray........

if I built a small block it would be just like yours

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/11/12 05:02 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Cracks me up that the comparable classes between SB and BB on DW the SB cars are quicker.

I noticed this as well. Is there any rhyme or reason to why this is?

guys with no money build big blocks that they can shift at 5800 and cant afford or unwilling to change oil every 6 hours

Try 7500 on a stock 413 crank and 13+ year old chevy rods.........and yes, I`m poor...............not for long. Congrats again Ray........

if I built a small block it would be just like yours

You could do better than that and you`ve achieved tons w/your ride. I`m going to make a serious effort to try drag week next year according to where I end up and Yuma`s lookin good right now plus I finished my first class w/an A and today`s my finals and HOPEFULLY one of my needed certs.............

This is a fun little game isn`t it?

Posted By: B3422W5

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/11/12 05:04 PM

Mopar Billy... Lol

If I was to build a 10.30's 2900 pound small block I would start with cnc eddies by Modern. Perhaps even the airwolfs after they have had some real world testing.
904
Victor
950
1.875 headersP
Flat tappet 260-266 ish 600+ gross lift
At 10.5-11 compression this should run your number pretty easily

I say this based on a combination I ran a few years
3400 pound A body( all steel, bench seat , mild steel cage,300 pound driver ( me lol)
727
Stage 2 not fully ported eddies
Small tube Tti headers
Weiand excellerator
1025 race demon 4150 carb
11.8 compression
260-266 598/623 lift flat tappet on a 107 in at 104
This went 10.70's and 80's driving it everywhere
I suspect knocking 500 pounds out of it, fully porting the heads, and swapping out the 727 for a 904(plus running the better bigger tube headers it would have run close to10 flat
Knocking a point of compression out of it might slow it down a tenth or perhaps a hair more
This all is with a 4 inch crank . I doubt your 3.79 crank would yield much difference to the equation

ETA

I later pulled the Eddie top end off that shortblock( used same flat tappet cam) and added W5 heads and headers and a modified victor W2 intake Brett did up, and with zero other changes the car ran 10.38 at 129. This still at 3400 pounds with the 727 tranny
Grenaded that when the cast stroker crank let go one night at the track
So in my mind, there Is a reliable and street able way to run probably better than10.30's with a good casting head.

Posted By: BBR

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/11/12 06:37 PM

Quote:

Cracks me up that the comparable classes between SB and BB on DW the SB cars are quicker.

The Street Race BB classes were soft this year in my opinion. I fully expected some mid-high 8 sec cars to be in my class. But typically when guys start running that quick, unless they are specifically trying to fit into a DW class, they will have done things to the car that bump them to a different class.

I know Jake has a ton of money invested in his car. His engine was built in NC. Mine was built by me and my 7 y/o kid. Hell, my whole car probably cost less than his engine. Different strokes for different folks. I suppose my 'bolt together' engine underperforms for what it is, but I have no desire to run 9's and the added stuff that brings along with it. Besides, I like pulling into the track, changing tires, removing the air filter and being ready to run. I'm lazy like that and I like my full interior.

Street SB's can certainly be built to run in the 9's, but you're probably going to spend way more money and turn way more rpm to get there, so the investment over time is probably going to be more. Doing more with less cubes, certainly does tickle the "cool" funny bone we all have, but for my car, I'll stick to my school bus motor.

Posted By: TheOtherDodge

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/11/12 06:49 PM

What stall converters and gear is every one running?

And a 2900 lb car is pretty light, so count out B and E bodies unless you have a gutted interior, lexan, etc.. Even an A body down at that weight is hard!

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/11/12 07:04 PM

Quote:

What stall converters and gear is every one running?

And a 2900 lb car is pretty light, so count out B and E bodies unless you have a gutted interior, lexan, etc.. Even an A body down at that weight is hard!

My stall is 5000 and I'm running 4.10 gears... and
2900 isnt really hard to do in a A-body... my old
69 valiant 100 was 2900 stock with the /6 but it was
a bare bones car

Posted By: B3422W5

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/11/12 07:18 PM

Quote:

What stall converters and gear is every one running?

And a 2900 lb car is pretty light, so count out B and E bodies unless you have a gutted interior, lexan, etc.. Even an A body down at that weight is hard!

I think Billy has a 2850-2900 pound car and wondered what small block would run10.30 in that car using his x block, 3.79 crank and 904 trams
I said modern cnc eddies, proper flat tappet etc would get him there
At that weight 575 horse or less should suffice, maybe even a hair less

Posted By: one bad fish

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/11/12 07:26 PM

Quote:

This thread is the perfect way to start a bb vs sb grudge event!!! i love it.

let me know so i could put some of these big blocks in a head lock. lol

Posted By: Streetwize

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/11/12 07:26 PM

I've said before the small block cylinder head is a superior (roughly 10 years later) and more efficient design; for a conventional 440 big block to have the same port and valve area to displacement ratio as a conventional 340 small block, they would have come from the factory with about a 2.19" intake valve and nearly max wedge size ports....not to mention still without the superior valve angle and valves that open on the bore centerline. I always wondered why someone didn't just "scale-up" the the small block head design and adapt it to the B/RB deck....besides needing different valve notches, how hard could that be? not to mention the B/RB has a much better lifter bore angle than the WTF 59 degree of the small block.

As a result, with aftermarket heads It's easier to hit 1.5hp per cube with a small block but that only gets you so far becuase there's a practical limit to the cubes (roughly 475" is the "practical" limit) with a 4.22" bore and 4.25" stroke. An RB big block Mega can go "easily" to 572 or even 605-ish with a raised cam tunnel but becuse of the limits of the Shallow wedge heads (assuming a streetable CR max) it's not always the best bang for the buck.

Also the packaging for a BB is an issue, it's really only practical

to consider an A body for mid nines, the big block adds all the weight on the nose and (unless you run a glide) the 727 adds weight too.

When I sum it all up the best 'prctical" (ie, trying to do it on a reasonable budget) mid nine combo to me that would still be streetable would be an R block 460-ish motor with max ported w5's in a sub 2800 pound 67-68 A body notch with a race prepped low gear set 904 and about a 4.30 gear. Second place would be a 511 low deck with B1's or max ported -1's. both motors would have a tight lobe center roller with about 275 @.050 and .670-ish lift on a 12:1 short block with an oversized cooling system. both would have a 'tight' 8" vert with ~4800 stall/5500 flash...it's really tough to hook a 5500 stall on any type of true street tire no matter how well the combo hooks. And as far as the hook the small block is going to have a huge built-in 60' advantage but I think a well tuned BB could just about make that up by high gear with the right guy picking the parts. You can go bigger on the cams and more stall etc but for most people you'd be wrenching on it all the time and it would really just be a race car you're driving on the street.

My 380cfm Chapman CNC max wedge headed 517 was once destined for a 760-ish HP 9.70-ish 67 A body, but my plans got diverted and the motro got detuned to right around 710 but with a massively broad street torque curve to move a 3750 pound B body with 3.54:1 gears.

That said you realize how easy a streetable low 10 combination is by simply scaling down the cubes, block and heads,

Btw....aren't HEMI's Big blocks??

Chip's 9 second 572 is street driven and one of the most impressive cars I've ever seen in terms of drag strip performance and REAL street manners. Put that combo in a much lighter A body and there you go.

Posted By: one bad fish

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/11/12 07:30 PM

Quote:

The original post was...CAN IT BE DONE

You guys have turned it into another SB vs BB thread

IF YOUR SAMLLBLOCKS are SO FAST....

WHY ARENT YOU SHOWING UP TO ANY OF JOSH'S RACES????

The only fast one ive seen so far is Bill May and Leon..

THeres my 100% true statement ...LOL

Why dont you all answer what the guy asked???
YES IT CAN BE DONE WITH A SMALLBLOCK....
Spend the money in the right places, go do it and have fun !

one reason its to far 4 me got. nothing to do with anything else

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/11/12 07:30 PM

Quote:

What stall converters and gear is every one running?

And a 2900 lb car is pretty light, so count out B and E bodies unless you have a gutted interior, lexan, etc.. Even an A body down at that weight is hard!

I run an 8"5000+ vert and have 4.11`s w/a 29x13.5 Hoosier qtp and fwy driving gets old quick like 70-75mph at 3000`s old.

Posted By: sixpackgut

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/11/12 07:40 PM

Quote:

Quote:

This thread is the perfect way to start a bb vs sb grudge event!!! i love it.

let me know so i could put some of these big blocks in a head lock. lol

why don't you two guys take your cars to Drag Week and represent for the small block mopar guys

trust me, we would gladly be routing for you guys

don't talk about it, be about it

Posted By: sixpackgut

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/11/12 07:42 PM

Quote:

Quote:

What stall converters and gear is every one running?

And a 2900 lb car is pretty light, so count out B and E bodies unless you have a gutted interior, lexan, etc.. Even an A body down at that weight is hard!

I run an 8"5000+ vert and have 4.11`s w/a 29x13.5 Hoosier qtp and fwy driving gets old quick like 70-75mph at 3000`s old.

5300 9" from Lenny and 3.55 gears for me, 325 tire

Posted By: ksj

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/11/12 08:09 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

This thread is the perfect way to start a bb vs sb grudge event!!! i love it.

let me know so i could put some of these big blocks in a head lock. lol

why don't you two guys take your cars to Drag Week and represent for the small block mopar guys

trust me, we would gladly be routing for you guys

don't talk about it, be about it

X2.Having gone on DW 4 times its been great to see the increase in the number of Mopars attending.More the merrier.

Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/11/12 09:17 PM

Since we are on a ole SB v BB debate I want to know something. Just where are all these bad azz SB Mopars at the track? I RARELY see a SB Mopar running in the 9's in a door car, let alone the 8's. Oh I know they exist some really fast ones in Comp and SS but those are fairly exatoc pieces. Just curious. I hear all the crowing going on but rarely see any of these allusive beasts out there. FWIW many of the BB Mopars are very underwhelming as well but at least I see 8 second ones.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/11/12 09:22 PM

Quote:

Quote:

What stall converters and gear is every one running?

And a 2900 lb car is pretty light, so count out B and E bodies unless you have a gutted interior, lexan, etc.. Even an A body down at that weight is hard!

I run an 8"5000+ vert and have 4.11`s w/a 29x13.5 Hoosier qtp and fwy driving gets old quick like 70-75mph at 3000`s old.

Thats where the OD comes in handy

Posted By: MIKES_DUSTER

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/11/12 10:12 PM

Quote:

This thread is the perfect way to start a bb vs sb grudge event!!! i love it.

I totally agree!!!!!!!

Posted By: one bad fish

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/11/12 10:16 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

This thread is the perfect way to start a bb vs sb grudge event!!! i love it.

let me know so i could put some of these big blocks in a head lock. lol

why don't you two guys take your cars to Drag Week and represent for the small block mopar guys

trust me, we would gladly be routing for you guys

don't talk about it, be about it

i would love to lets see

Posted By: MIKES_DUSTER

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/11/12 10:16 PM

I miss a day on Moparts and look at all Ive missed!!!!!

I didnt say I was going to build a 9 second street car (Im too poor),just curious what everone thought about doing it with either a SB or BB.

I did come to a conclusion,You can go as fast as your wallet dictates!!!!!

If I were to do it,I would go BB because I think it would be cheaper too do...If I had money,I would do a SB.

Posted By: one bad fish

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/11/12 10:18 PM

Quote:

Since we are on a ole SB v BB debate I want to know something. Just where are all these bad azz SB Mopars at the track? I RARELY see a SB Mopar running in the 9's in a door car, let alone the 8's. Oh I know they exist some really fast ones in Comp and SS but those are fairly exatoc pieces. Just curious. I hear all the crowing going on but rarely see any of these allusive beasts out there. FWIW many of the BB Mopars are very underwhelming as well but at least I see 8 second ones.

right here come to NY see in person

Posted By: MIKES_DUSTER

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/11/12 10:21 PM

Hey Pablo,

How much comp are you running??

Posted By: rickraw

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/11/12 10:30 PM

stop in pa on the way & see another one.

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/11/12 10:32 PM

Quote:

Since we are on a ole SB v BB debate I want to know something. Just where are all these bad azz SB Mopars at the track? I RARELY see a SB Mopar running in the 9's in a door car, let alone the 8's. Oh I know they exist some really fast ones in Comp and SS but those are fairly exatoc pieces. Just curious. I hear all the crowing going on but rarely see any of these allusive beasts out there. FWIW many of the BB Mopars are very underwhelming as well but at least I see 8 second ones.

RAYMOND a member here has a 8 second SB, 392 W5 motor in a tube chasis Omni, hardly a "street car" lol it could run 7's but it does have a 100mm turbo... and a turbo 400 trans and 3.73 gears. Saw him run 174 at M/D on a 3/4 pass

I still think a boosted BB car would be way cheaper and easier on parts if somebody wanted a REAL driver 9 second ride.

Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/11/12 10:41 PM

So let's see that is two

Posted By: one bad fish

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/11/12 10:46 PM

Quote:

Hey Pablo,

How much comp are you running??

not pump gas LOL

Posted By: tboomer

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/11/12 10:47 PM

Quote:

So let's see that is two

Picking on the little guys again,Al?

Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/11/12 10:50 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Since we are on a ole SB v BB debate I want to know something. Just where are all these bad azz SB Mopars at the track? I RARELY see a SB Mopar running in the 9's in a door car, let alone the 8's. Oh I know they exist some really fast ones in Comp and SS but those are fairly exatoc pieces. Just curious. I hear all the crowing going on but rarely see any of these allusive beasts out there. FWIW many of the BB Mopars are very underwhelming as well but at least I see 8 second ones.

RAYMOND a member here has a 8 second SB, 392 W5 motor in a tube chasis Omni, hardly a "street car" lol it could run 7's but it does have a 100mm turbo... and a turbo 400 trans and 3.73 gears. Saw him run 174 at M/D on a 3/4 pass
I still think a boosted BB car would be way cheaper and easier on parts if somebody wanted a REAL driver 9 second ride.

NA dictionary means " NO ADDER" meaning no power adders. Meaning no nitrous, blower, turbo's, and ect. Means doing it through hard work.

Posted By: bwdst6

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/11/12 10:55 PM

Quote:

RAYMOND a member here has a 8 second SB, 392 W5 motor in a tube chasis Omni, hardly a "street car" ...

I like these threads where members talk about their �street car� but then have a picture in their profile of a car with slicks and front runners on.

Posted By: Mopar-Al

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/11/12 11:23 PM

Quote:

Quote:

So let's see that is two

Picking on the little guys again,Al?

I have been seriously looking at Al's engine in the race parts section. It has been tempting me all month.

It won't be 9's and it won't be street.

Posted By: fishy340

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/11/12 11:36 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

So let's see that is two

Picking on the little guys again,Al?

I have been seriously looking at Al's engine in the race parts section. It has been tempting me all month.

It won't be 9's and it won't be street.

you aint the only one lord thats a steal.

Posted By: B1MAXX

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/12/12 12:11 AM

Quote:

stop in pa on the way & see another one.

Do you have picture of your car...just trying to put a name with a face...we'll maybe a car.

Posted By: TheOtherDodge

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/12/12 12:17 AM

So from what I have read, for the most part, big or small block, to get this mid 9 second street car (N/A), you have to be very light at around 2900 lbs, lots of converter, lots of gear, lots of compression, big cam (which means stiff springs). All of that hardly equates to a "street car" that can be driven anywhere at speeds faster than 50 mph, no mileage limit, little maintenance, IMO

If it is so easy to run mid 9's N/A how come you don't see it that much, much less in a very streetable street car?

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/12/12 12:29 AM

Quote:

So let's see that is two

I've been high 8s and with a new cam with some lift
I'm sure it would run quicker yet(my P-Body) my Rampage
is built to run 10.0 due to license issues

Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/12/12 12:30 AM

Now were up to three

Posted By: 1967dartgt

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/12/12 12:47 AM

Quote:

Now were up to three

Well you can stop and see my car 9.55 n/a and then stop over at Bretts house and see his that runs bottom 9s n/a and then swing by his friend Torys house and see his small block 9.50 n/a car. Just need to come out to the east coast where we race!!

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/12/12 12:59 AM

Quote:

So from what I have read, for the most part, big or small block, to get this mid 9 second street car (N/A), you have to be very light at around 2900 lbs, lots of converter, lots of gear, lots of compression, big cam (which means stiff springs). All of that hardly equates to a "street car" that can be driven anywhere at speeds faster than 50 mph, no mileage limit, little maintenance, IMO

If it is so easy to run mid 9's N/A how come you don't see it that much, much less in a very streetable street car?

Your forgetting the use of OD... you dont need a
steep gear... myself I went 4.10 with the OD.. I'm
sure I could go to a 4.30 but then even with the OD it
would be up just beyond the rpm I like to cruise at
when headed down the E-way .. when using a roller cam
I would rather go up the spring pressure then having
the lifter bouncing all around... my springs are 250
on seat and I might go up a bit (not sure yet)...
compression... I went 10.9 so its pump gas(93 for
racing... 89 on the road) and I figured to drive
this at 75 mph

Posted By: Lil Demon

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/12/12 01:36 AM

Well I guess all the fast and streetable SB Mopars are on the East Coast becuase they sure aren't on the West Coast. Gilly's is one of the harder running SBs I've seen and it's in the 10s and isn't streetable.

What I find striking is the comments of how easy and cheap it is to run down in the 9s with a streetable NA BB or SB combo. Unless there is some secret that NONE of the Mopar engine building gurus (BGR, Pettis, Compuflow, Muscle, etc) and none of the long time serious racers on here know about, yet all of these regular guys do, then I'm left scratching my head as to what they are talking about.

My combo is a 511 BB with oodles of compression, tunnel ram with twin dominators, pro built by Mike at MM, -1 heads max ported by Jeff at MCH, filled block, ATI converter, and weighs 3000lbs with me in it. I'm way down in the 9s and am nowhere near being streetable.

Thumper's car runs in the 9s - I think he is NA and drives it on the street. That's about the only one I can think of out here.

I'm not saying it isn't possible - obviously with Thumper's example above - but cheap and easy and streetable and mid 9s - that just seems like an irresponsible and uneducated perspective.

Posted By: fishy340

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/12/12 01:44 AM

I saw an article on a guy from cali w a purple cuda and his sb...it did have 13.1 compression though. Nice car i remember it had indy 230's nothing at all exotic

Posted By: Twin Turbo Mower

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/12/12 02:23 AM

Have not had a chance to go to the 1/4 yet with my car since I redid the whole thing new moly cage, wiring,interior,paint . It should run 9.30's according to my 1/8th mile mph. I have only had it to the track a few times and each time It keeps going a little faster. Hope to be in the 5's in the 1/8th next year. I wish it was cheap I spent alot of money making the car look stock as possible from the inside and outside and to run the number. I am just missing a radio. I have heat, wipes ect. Spent 2 years redoing it to run drag week just could not finish it in time this year. But I did get it going and the cage certified and finally got my nhra liscense. So I should be good to go next year.

Attached picture 7499385-100_2593.JPG

Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/12/12 02:26 AM

Quote:

Have not had a chance to go to the 1/4 yet with my car since I redid the whole thing new moly cage, wiring,interior,paint . It should run 9.30's according to my 1/8th mile mph. I have only had it to the track a few times and each time It keeps going a little faster. Hope to be in the 5's in the 1/8th next year. I wish it was cheap I spent alot of money making the car look stock as possible from the inside and outside and to run the number. I am just missing a radio. I have heat, wipes ect. Spent 2 years redoing it to run drag week just could not finish it in time this year. But I did get it going and the cage certified and finally got my nhra liscense. So I should be good to go next year.

Very nice looking car.

Posted By: vc360

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/12/12 03:04 AM

Mine has been 9.62 best and 9.70's most of the time at 138 and is 3520lbs.

Small block stroker with W9's. Car is registered and has everything on it still except the heater core.
I would love to do drag week with it but would need an OD trans or gear vendors setup.
We run it on 98 pump fuel and 28* timing around town and when at the track on 109 and 36*.

Posted By: n20mstr

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/12/12 03:19 AM

i should have never posted in this thread.
My car is NOT N/A......

and its hard for me to NOT type what i want when i read some of these responses....LOL

Posted By: MIKES_DUSTER

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/12/12 03:20 AM

Quote:

i should have never posted in this thread.
My car is NOT N/A......

and its hard for me to NOT type what i want when i read some of these responses....LOL

What does it run N/A??? You can repond to any comment. lol

Posted By: n20mstr

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/12/12 03:23 AM

Quote:

Quote:

i should have never posted in this thread.
My car is NOT N/A......

and its hard for me to NOT type what i want when i read some of these responses....LOL

What does it run N/A??? You can repond to any comment. lol

I posted that already.....and i really dont care what it runs N/A
I have a POWER ADDER car....and its F A S T !

Posted By: one bad fish

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/12/12 03:25 AM

Quote:

i should have never posted in this thread.
My car is NOT N/A......

and its hard for me to NOT type what i want when i read some of these responses....LOL

It's all in fun

Posted By: quickd100

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/12/12 03:26 AM

Well I guess I'll add my 3 cents. You can do it either way but I've always thought it should be easier to build a big MILD motor that's reliable and less upkeep. And the lighter the chassis the better.
Having said all that I'm the one beating my head against the wall trying to do this with about the worst chassis combination possible, and about 1000lbs. to heavy. I guess I'm just stubborn, someone long ago laughed at me and my truck and said it would never be able to get out of it's own way.Dave

Posted By: n20mstr

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/12/12 03:32 AM

Quote:

Quote:

i should have never posted in this thread.
My car is NOT N/A......

and its hard for me to NOT type what i want when i read some of these responses....LOL

It's all in fun

Your 100% right.
this thread is about mid 9 streetable pumpgas SB vs BB
I dont belong in here...

Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/12/12 03:37 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Your 100% right.
this thread is about mid 9 streetable pumpgas SB vs BB
I dont belong in here...

No worries neither do most who have posted in here

Let winter officially begin, I am assuming it is cold in the east and midwest now:p

Posted By: fishy340

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/12/12 03:47 AM

Quote:

i should have never posted in this thread.
My car is NOT N/A......

and its hard for me to NOT type what i want when i read some of these responses....LOL

dont worry T im anxiouse to see what my hooptie can do...maybe we can play at etown next yr

bb abody vs sb abody.

Posted By: J_BODY

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/12/12 03:49 AM

Quote:

Your 100% right.
this thread is about mid 9 streetable pumpgas SB vs BB
I dont belong in here...

No worries neither do most who have posted in here

Let winter officially begin, I am assuming it is cold in the east and midwest now:p

HEMI 99 sells and it's R5P7 time for the skinny tire car!

It's time to go lil block Al!

Posted By: n20mstr

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/12/12 03:50 AM

Quote:

Quote:

i should have never posted in this thread.
My car is NOT N/A......

and its hard for me to NOT type what i want when i read some of these responses....LOL

dont worry T im anxiouse to see what my hooptie can do...maybe we can play at etown next yr bb abody vs sb abody.

I dont have 10k to gamble with....BUT im not scared either.

Posted By: fishy340

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/12/12 04:03 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

i should have never posted in this thread.
My car is NOT N/A......

and its hard for me to NOT type what i want when i read some of these responses....LOL

dont worry T im anxiouse to see what my hooptie can do...maybe we can play at etown next yr bb abody vs sb abody.

I dont have 10k to gamble with....BUT im not scared either.

.
It can be for a hotdog,i think these boys would enjoy 2 smokin hot lookin mopars doin battles w nice size guns and no pinion snubbers! Lmao

Posted By: ksj

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/12/12 05:05 AM

VC360 and TwinTurboMower what gears?There are people who run steep gears without an OD on DW.An OD does help though.Crows Dart is running a G-Force G5R with regular ratios 1-4 with 5th being an od of .75.to 1.Jake runs 4.88s and averaged 9.96 for the week, and at 60 mph was 4k rpm.Would I run that? Probly not.Id guess high 9.70s low 80s would win in 13.Test and adjust accordingly and be there.You wont regret it.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/12/12 05:20 AM

Quote:

VC360 and TwinTurboMower what gears?There are people who run steep gears without an OD on DW.An OD does help though.Crows Dart is running a G-Force G5R with regular ratios 1-4 with 5th being an od of .75.to 1.Jake runs 4.88s and averaged 9.96 for the week, and at 60 mph was 4k rpm.Would I run that? Probly not.Id guess high 9.70s low 80s would win in 13.Test and adjust accordingly and be there.You wont regret it.

The OD does 2 things... cuts down on the wear and
tear on the valve train and you get better mileage...
alot of the guys would like to run a GV or a OD
but the GV is $3000... maybe more now.. that price
was 2 years ago when we were on DW

Posted By: ksj

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/12/12 05:26 AM

Gv is still around that.Guess what I was getting at is someone could tread lightly at 55-60 mph and make it.

Jake just flipped us off when we passed him at 80 a few times.

Got to the hotel and waited on him so he could make us a sammich.

400 mile drive,leave the track at 1 pm and plan on a 9 or so hour drive.It is a test as you know.Sleep is over rated on DW.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/12/12 05:40 AM

Quote:

Gv is still around that.Guess what I was getting at is someone could tread lightly at 55-60 mph and make it. Jake just flipped us off when we passed him at 80 a few times. Got to the hotel and waited on him so he could make us a sammich. 400 mile drive,leave the track at 1 pm and plan on a 9 or so hour drive.It is a test as you know.Sleep is over rated on DW.

Yeah we had Larry pass us and we were doing 75...
then later we someone else pass us so we picked up
the pace and the engine started to sing and we got
better mileage... yeah sleep is on the lower end of
things.... I set my car up to hopefully cruise at 75mph
at least by the calculations and if the conv slippage
is where Paul from T/A suggested it would be... my
testing will start in the spring... I'm doing body
work now

Posted By: Twin Turbo Mower

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/12/12 05:52 AM

Quote:

VC360 and TwinTurboMower what gears?There are people who run steep gears without an OD on DW.An OD does help though.Crows Dart is running a G-Force G5R with regular ratios 1-4 with 5th being an od of .75.to 1.Jake runs 4.88s and averaged 9.96 for the week, and at 60 mph was 4k rpm.Would I run that? Probly not.Id guess high 9.70s low 80s would win in 13.Test and adjust accordingly and be there.You wont regret it.

3.54 gear, I upgraded to a dana from a 8 3/4 that had 3.23 gears.

Posted By: vc360

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/12/12 06:51 AM

Quote:

VC360 and TwinTurboMower what gears?There are people who run steep gears without an OD on DW.An OD does help though.Crows Dart is running a G-Force G5R with regular ratios 1-4 with 5th being an od of .75.to 1.Jake runs 4.88s and averaged 9.96 for the week, and at 60 mph was 4k rpm.Would I run that? Probly not.Id guess high 9.70s low 80s would win in 13.Test and adjust accordingly and be there.You wont regret it.

Mine is 4.56 and I use a 275/60/15 street tyre. Tyre selection is limited in Australia or at least where I am. With a 30 inch street tyre it would be ok.

Posted By: moparniac

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/12/12 09:30 AM

If your not allowed to pick your own car

this is who I say is the KING around here!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCQt_cATHLk&list=FLD9LfmRuRnvaFKKrPCX0oqw&index=17

Posted By: BBR

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/12/12 03:07 PM

Quote:

Have not had a chance to go to the 1/4 yet with my car since I redid the whole thing new moly cage, wiring,interior,paint . It should run 9.30's according to my 1/8th mile mph. I have only had it to the track a few times and each time It keeps going a little faster. Hope to be in the 5's in the 1/8th next year. I wish it was cheap I spent alot of money making the car look stock as possible from the inside and outside and to run the number. I am just missing a radio. I have heat, wipes ect. Spent 2 years redoing it to run drag week just could not finish it in time this year. But I did get it going and the cage certified and finally got my nhra license. So I should be good to go next year.

This car is freakin' bad a$$.

I will never run OD. My engine can run 2900-3000 rpm all day long and is very happy doing it. We ran 60-65 most of the time and a little faster on some of the interstate.

Posted By: sixpackgut

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/12/12 03:34 PM

Quote:

Have not had a chance to go to the 1/4 yet with my car since I redid the whole thing new moly cage, wiring,interior,paint . It should run 9.30's according to my 1/8th mile mph. I have only had it to the track a few times and each time It keeps going a little faster. Hope to be in the 5's in the 1/8th next year. I wish it was cheap I spent alot of money making the car look stock as possible from the inside and outside and to run the number. I am just missing a radio. I have heat, wipes ect. Spent 2 years redoing it to run drag week just could not finish it in time this year. But I did get it going and the cage certified and finally got my nhra liscense. So I should be good to go next year.

2013 NA BB SUPER STREET WINNER right here

Posted By: poisondart2

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/12/12 04:54 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Have not had a chance to go to the 1/4 yet with my car since I redid the whole thing new moly cage, wiring,interior,paint . It should run 9.30's according to my 1/8th mile mph. I have only had it to the track a few times and each time It keeps going a little faster. Hope to be in the 5's in the 1/8th next year. I wish it was cheap I spent alot of money making the car look stock as possible from the inside and outside and to run the number. I am just missing a radio. I have heat, wipes ect. Spent 2 years redoing it to run drag week just could not finish it in time this year. But I did get it going and the cage certified and finally got my nhra liscense. So I should be good to go next year.

2013 NA BB SUPER STREET WINNER right here

There you go.... pretty much sums it up !

Posted By: BBR

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/12/12 05:30 PM

Quote:

2013 NA BB SUPER STREET WINNER right here

What does it have that bumps it to Super Street?!?

Posted By: sixpackgut

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/12/12 05:40 PM

Quote:

Quote:

2013 NA BB SUPER STREET WINNER right here

What does it have that bumps it to Super Street?!?

isnt that stock suspension class? I was in modified because of the ladder bars

Posted By: BBR

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/12/12 06:07 PM

There are many differences, but the biggies are:

Street race - no FC cages, no rear coil overs and rear frame rails can be notched but cannot be supported by additional tubing/structures.

Super Street race - FC cages ok, coil overs ok and there are no rear frame rail restrictions.

Posted By: sixpackgut

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/12/12 06:15 PM

Quote:

There are many differences, but the biggies are:

Street race - no FC cages, no rear coil overs and rear frame rails can be notched but cannot be supported by additional tubing/structures.

Super Street race - FC cages ok, coil overs ok and there are no rear frame rail restrictions.

ok, well whichever one, my bad

Posted By: an8sec70cuda

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/13/12 09:12 PM

Quote:

If your not allowed to pick your own car

this is who I say is the KING around here!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCQt_cATHLk&list=FLD9LfmRuRnvaFKKrPCX0oqw&index=17

Thanks Sledgie!

You're right there w/ me!
I spent a good bit on mine, not necessarily to make huge power, but to make it reliable. Freshening it up now after 6 years of abuse and the extra I spent on good parts the first time around is paying off.

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/14/12 05:45 PM

Quote:

Well I guess all the fast and streetable SB Mopars are on the East Coast becuase they sure aren't on the West Coast. Gilly's is one of the harder running SBs I've seen and it's in the 10s and isn't streetable.

What I find striking is the comments of how easy and cheap it is to run down in the 9s with a streetable NA BB or SB combo. Unless there is some secret that NONE of the Mopar engine building gurus (BGR, Pettis, Compuflow, Muscle, etc) and none of the long time serious racers on here know about, yet all of these regular guys do, then I'm left scratching my head as to what they are talking about.

My combo is a 511 BB with oodles of compression, tunnel ram with twin dominators, pro built by Mike at MM, -1 heads max ported by Jeff at MCH, filled block, ATI converter, and weighs 3000lbs with me in it. I'm way down in the 9s and am nowhere near being streetable.

Thumper's car runs in the 9s - I think he is NA and drives it on the street. That's about the only one I can think of out here.

I'm not saying it isn't possible - obviously with Thumper's example above - but cheap and easy and streetable and mid 9s - that just seems like an irresponsible and uneducated perspective.

Cheap is a relative term for sure but my dart really is very streetable,doesn`t eat valve springs or overheat at all.........ask Jason Pettis..........he drove it on the street and scared the hell out of a friend of ours.

Send me some $$$ and I`ll put a motor together that will do better than my 13+ year old junk parts........

And did I mention the "THUMPER" home ported rpm`s and only 470 cubes...........

Posted By: TheOtherDodge

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/16/12 12:18 AM

Thumper, your car certainly runs good and looks just as nice too boot!

What cam, gear, converter, compression?

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/16/12 12:28 AM

Quote:

Thumper, your car certainly runs good and looks just as nice too boot!

What cam, gear, converter, compression?

Thankxxx.........but like me, my car looks good from a distance.

I run an Isky solid roller w/.680-.660 lift and 275-280 dur. @ .050 installed around 104. I have 4.11`s, an 8" 5000+ vert and 12.1.1 comp.

Posted By: TheOtherDodge

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/16/12 12:34 AM

So you have that ole "10 ft paint job" huh? My Dakota is like that too! But Im fixing to get some body work and paint done to it.

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB???? - 12/16/12 03:29 AM

Quote:

So you have that ole "10 ft paint job" huh? My Dakota is like that too! But Im fixing to get some body work and paint done to it.

Maybe even 20ft............

No joke.........Was thinking about painting it but that money could be better spent on making it lighter and faster.........

MID 9 SECOND "STREET CAR" N/A.....SB VS. BB????