Re: SB Head Choices
[Re: razoreyes45k]
#1332195
11/08/12 12:25 PM
11/08/12 12:25 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 25 Texas, USA
razoreyes45k
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I should have been more specific but these are my basic parameters: 1. Aluminum 2. Must be capable of flowing enough cfm to support 422 ci (idealy more than 270 cfm after porting)and accomodate a 2.100" Int. valve w/o shrouding. 3. Reliance on stock-style valve-train design. *** I've ruled out W2's because the engine will be used in either a truck or a van (W2 headers are not designed for use in a VAN/TRUCK. All other Mopar W-Series heads are not considered for similar reasons as stated above. I realize that with the right machining, anything is possible; only, the basic head must provide the foundation to perform the required work to reach these goals.*** {BTW, the 2.100" Intake valve is a recommendation for engines larger than 420 ci and is also supported by the Reher Morrison belief that (52%)(Bore)= Minimum Intake Valve Size. In this case the minimum Intake valve size is 2.132"}. At this point,cost is second in priority to performance.
Last edited by razoreyes45k; 11/08/12 12:38 PM.
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Re: SB Head Choices
[Re: razoreyes45k]
#1332197
11/08/12 03:13 PM
11/08/12 03:13 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,483 So Cal
autoxcuda
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Quote:
I should have been more specific but these are my basic parameters:
1. Aluminum
2. Must be capable of flowing enough cfm to support 422 ci (idealy more than 270 cfm after porting)and accomodate a 2.100" Int. valve w/o shrouding.
3. Reliance on stock-style valve-train design.
*** I've ruled out W2's because the engine will be used in either a truck or a van (W2 headers are not designed for use in a VAN/TRUCK. All other Mopar W-Series heads are not considered for similar reasons as stated above. I realize that with the right machining, anything is possible; only, the basic head must provide the foundation to perform the required work to reach these goals.***
{BTW, the 2.100" Intake valve is a recommendation for engines larger than 420 ci and is also supported by the Reher Morrison belief that (52%)(Bore)= Minimum Intake Valve Size. In this case the minimum Intake valve size is 2.132"}.
At this point,cost is second in priority to performance.
What is the performance you are looking to achieve?
What are your personal expectations and requirements for a "street driven" car?
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Re: SB Head Choices
[Re: autoxcuda]
#1332198
11/09/12 02:39 AM
11/09/12 02:39 AM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 25 Texas, USA
razoreyes45k
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The short block is currently being amassed, but it will have all new 4340 internals with Diamond forged flat tops and Total Seal Gapless Rings. I'm pausing with cam selection because people have said they have used Roller Cams in A (Pre-Magnum)engines. To my knowledge, a roller lifter link-bar will not clear the block due to the A engine's 59* lifter angle. Although the magazines have published stories claiming the marriage of this combination, I have yet to see close-up pictures and hear explanations regarding the modifications involved to create this. Assuming that much effort is required to fit the link-bars, and not knowing that other people have successfully acconplished this themselves without tapping into water-jackets, I'm inclined at the present to investigate a Hughes Solid Flat-Tappet, slightly longer in duration and under .550 lift using the Chrysler 1.5 RR, suitable with Power Brakes. The '73 340 block has been sonic-checked and magnafluxed,line-honed,torque-plate honed using 520 finishing stones and the bolts are new MP factory replacements. Surfacing the deck will most likely have no more than .010" taken off. CR is aimed around 10:1 to run pump gas and I'm planning to have a few thousandths Compression Distance to accomodate a closed-chamber cylinder head measuring anywhere between 63cc and 70 cc. Elsewhere, the oiling system will be modified to flow through the lifters/pushrods. A bigger pan, HV pump, 360* fully-grooved main bearings, Big bottom-feed style pickup and other related mods to safeguard better than OEM oil distribution. So far, I'd say this will be a solid short-block. I don't know how this engine by design will stand up to the occasional rigors of abuse, but I'm hoping my machining and choice of parts will allow the engine to run a solid 120,000 - 150,000 mainly street-driven miles before it expires. Depending on choice of Head and Cam, 520-550 Gross HP would be a hopefull estimate for such a build.
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Re: SB Head Choices
[Re: 70AARcuda]
#1332199
11/09/12 03:32 AM
11/09/12 03:32 AM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 25 Texas, USA
razoreyes45k
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Thank you for posting. I watched the Youtube video and even found another thread from your post highlighting a 620 HP build using Roller lifters on the A Engine. I remember seeing these Airwolf heads advertised through MCG a while back. I attempted an on-line search for information about them but came up mostly empty-handed. The dyno-sheet is very impressive for sure. Is there a website with dealer information or even Flow Bench Data and close-up images of these heads ?
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Re: SB Head Choices
[Re: 70AARcuda]
#1332201
11/09/12 09:33 AM
11/09/12 09:33 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345 Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
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If you're not going to use any of the "W" heads, then I'd look at Eddy RPM Magnum heads. in the hands of the right porter, they can flow 300 CFM
**Photobucket sucks**
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Re: SB Head Choices
[Re: razoreyes45k]
#1332202
11/09/12 10:54 AM
11/09/12 10:54 AM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 13,202 aZLiViN
J_BODY
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Quote:
Thank you for posting. I watched the Youtube video and even found another thread from your post highlighting a 620 HP build using Roller lifters on the A Engine.
I remember seeing these Airwolf heads advertised through MCG a while back. I attempted an on-line search for information about them but came up mostly empty-handed.
The dyno-sheet is very impressive for sure. Is there a website with dealer information or even Flow Bench Data and close-up images of these heads ?
Brian at IMM hooked us up with our roller lifters for our stock block. He's a member here (OU812)
Did you not open the link Tony (AARCuda) posted? Lots of info there from as Airwolf was answering question about the heads right in that thread.
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Re: SB Head Choices
[Re: razoreyes45k]
#1332203
11/09/12 11:29 AM
11/09/12 11:29 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,179 Atco NJ
DJVCuda
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Quote:
The short block is currently being amassed, but it will have all new 4340 internals with Diamond forged flat tops and Total Seal Gapless Rings.
I'm pausing with cam selection because people have said they have used Roller Cams in A (Pre-Magnum)engines. To my knowledge, a roller lifter link-bar will not clear the block due to the A engine's 59* lifter angle. Although the magazines have published stories claiming the marriage of this combination, I have yet to see close-up pictures and hear explanations regarding the modifications involved to create this. Assuming that much effort is required to fit the link-bars, and not knowing that other people have successfully acconplished this themselves without tapping into water-jackets, I'm inclined at the present to investigate a Hughes Solid Flat-Tappet, slightly longer in duration and under .550 lift using the Chrysler 1.5 RR, suitable with Power Brakes.
The '73 340 block has been sonic-checked and magnafluxed,line-honed,torque-plate honed using 520 finishing stones and the bolts are new MP factory replacements. Surfacing the deck will most likely have no more than .010" taken off. CR is aimed around 10:1 to run pump gas and I'm planning to have a few thousandths Compression Distance to accomodate a closed-chamber cylinder head measuring anywhere between 63cc and 70 cc.
Elsewhere, the oiling system will be modified to flow through the lifters/pushrods. A bigger pan, HV pump, 360* fully-grooved main bearings, Big bottom-feed style pickup and other related mods to safeguard better than OEM oil distribution.
So far, I'd say this will be a solid short-block. I don't know how this engine by design will stand up to the occasional rigors of abuse, but I'm hoping my machining and choice of parts will allow the engine to run a solid 120,000 - 150,000 mainly street-driven miles before it expires.
Depending on choice of Head and Cam, 520-550 Gross HP would be a hopefull estimate for such a build.
My build has the roller lifters that drop in - and several head tests.
the biggest thing I would change with your motor would be to tube the lifters for solid and to stud the mains.
430 Build
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Re: SB Head Choices
[Re: DJVCuda]
#1332207
11/09/12 12:35 PM
11/09/12 12:35 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,179 Atco NJ
DJVCuda
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Quote:
VALVE / BORE Ratio
The valve to bore ratio should be: 52-52.5% of the bore for Wedge heads. 53-53.5% for Canted valve, rotated canted valve (Mopar P/S hemi) and true Hemi. If you decrease intake exhaust ratio down to 70-71% you can move both intake and exhaust valves over to the exhaust side and increase intake valve size by .5-1%.
Anytime you increase valve size over the above stated Valve/Bore ratio you will see a small gain in CFM but the discharge coefficient drops and takes your power with it. An over shrouded valve instills a host of nasty scenario's, the two worst being decreased discharge coefficient and increased reversion below and above intake tuned power band. (according to Darin Morgan)
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Re: SB Head Choices
[Re: DJVCuda]
#1332208
11/09/12 12:36 PM
11/09/12 12:36 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 25 Texas, USA
razoreyes45k
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Were your engines dynoed that way on the chasis and/or engine dynomometer ? My engine combo falls inline with your reference and I plan to keep the 1.60 Exhaust size. Yes on the shrouding and I believe the Sunnen VGS-20 will do an adequate job here clearing metal away. Were your heads ported by hand or CNC? Who did your valve-job, did you stick to a 45* seat and 30* Back-cut? There are many determining factors to gain HP and I consider many things involved in both Bottom and Top-end as contributors. The size of the valve may or may not be the most important factor to power but since it is in direct contact to flow, I believe in this case, "size matters" along with the diameter of the valve stem, quality of the valve job and even weight of the valve. Does this all matter in building a hot-rod engine? Maybe or marbe not but if I do find myself at 1/4 mile track and test the limits of this engine, every decision I make now will show itself on the track.
Last edited by razoreyes45k; 11/09/12 01:02 PM.
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Re: SB Head Choices
[Re: razoreyes45k]
#1332210
11/09/12 12:51 PM
11/09/12 12:51 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,826 NY usa
540challenger
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Quote:
I have more faith in the A Engine Rocker Stands over the Magnum style Rocker Pedestals. I am aware that the Magnum RT (cast)heads flow more air than any other OEM head, consequently making the Eddy Aluminum versions a great buy, but I don't think the Eddy's would accept even a 2.080" Intake valve. I'm looking to use a 2.100" for my 422. Indy used to market the 360-1 that would have made a great choice for strokers. Currently though, 360-1 heads aren't offered new and there is more negative publicity surrounding Indy, discouraging me from considering them as a option. I'm also looking to what HughesEngines has to offer.
The eddy magnum heads use a chevy style rocker not the factory magnum type they are a little different.
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Re: SB Head Choices
[Re: 540challenger]
#1332211
11/09/12 12:58 PM
11/09/12 12:58 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345 Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
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Small block Eddy RPM Magnum heads with "chevy" style rocker arms, and pushrod guide plates. I don't see anything wrong with this combo, but I'll caveot that statement by saying I don't have any experience with .700" lift cams, or super high valve spring pressures...
**Photobucket sucks**
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