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Turbo exhaust theory? #1332034
11/07/12 06:25 PM
11/07/12 06:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,894
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize Offline OP
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Streetwize  Offline OP
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,894
Weddington, N.C.
Header theory for Turbos.

I realize that conventional "Normally Aspirated" header sizing theory goes out the window with turbos...I've seen it first hand and applied it several times on my own projects.

My question is why does the lack of primary tube length not 'act' as more of a restriction than it does when you consider you are packing so much more air and fuel into the cylinder...but then again not necessarily more than a comporable Supercharger or Nitrous system. Is it more (or at least in part) because the turbine "hot side" effectively acts like a "check valve" in the system, negating any of the negative effects of backflow through (what is typically) the smaller and shorter primary tube. Velocity is the name of the game, get the compressor side spooling faster and harder to build boost....but how do you determine the "optimum" tuned length and diameter, again likened to any other 4 cycle motor N/A or boosted?

Are there any definitive "cause and effect" studies of a turbo system's performance on a given engine combo similar to so many Header tests out there?

Just a random thought that popped up.

discuss amongst yourselves

Last edited by Streetwize; 11/07/12 06:28 PM.

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Re: Turbo exhaust theory? [Re: Streetwize] #1332035
11/07/12 07:45 PM
11/07/12 07:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,875
communist bloc of new jersey
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jamesc Offline
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jamesc  Offline
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communist bloc of new jersey
these are my opinions having not given it much thought and maybe not explaining it the best


tuned systems make greater use of mass inertia with regards to the intake and exhaust tracts. you close the intake valve ABDC to take advantage of the inertia that the intake charge has, it's keeps filling the cylinder ABDC because it's in motion. on the other side you open the exhaust valve BBDC to use "blowdown" to start the gases moving in the exhaust and establish inertia because the scavenging effect it will have is more beneficial than any additional energy that might be recovered leaving the exhaust valve closed longer. of course there's the overlap where the inertia of the exhaust gasses is used to pull the intake charge through the cylinder for scavenging.

the tuned length involves both the intake and exhaust tracts and has to do with the column inertia and pressure waves.

properly tuned naturally aspirated engines can achieve >100% mass efficiency.

imho with a forced induction engine the exhaust tuning would have a rather negligible impact compared to a NA engine being you have a greater pressure differential across the engine. there would also be a secondary impact of additional heat loss with longer tubes and that's energy lost that could be used to drive the turbine.

imho the main purpose of a tuned exhaust system on a NA engine is for better scavenging, with forced induction you can clear the cylinder much more effectively plus percentage wise any exhaust gases that might/could be left wouldn't dilute the fresh charge as much.

i didn't read any of this but there may be some information of interest

http://www.epi-eng.com/piston_engine_technology/exhaust_system_technology.htm

Re: Turbo exhaust theory? [Re: jamesc] #1332036
11/07/12 08:17 PM
11/07/12 08:17 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
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Crizila Offline
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Crizila  Offline
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Quote:

these are my opinions having not given it much thought and maybe not explaining it the best


tuned systems make greater use of mass inertia with regards to the intake and exhaust tracts. you close the intake valve ABDC to take advantage of the inertia that the intake charge has, it's keeps filling the cylinder ABDC because it's in motion. on the other side you open the exhaust valve BBDC to use "blowdown" to start the gases moving in the exhaust and establish inertia because the scavenging effect it will have is more beneficial than any additional energy that might be recovered leaving the exhaust valve closed longer. of course there's the overlap where the inertia of the exhaust gasses is used to pull the intake charge through the cylinder for scavenging.

the tuned length involves both the intake and exhaust tracts and has to do with the column inertia and pressure waves.

properly tuned naturally aspirated engines can achieve >100% mass efficiency.

imho with a forced induction engine the exhaust tuning would have a rather negligible impact compared to a NA engine being you have a greater pressure differential across the engine. there would also be a secondary impact of additional heat loss with longer tubes and that's energy lost that could be used to drive the turbine.

imho the main purpose of a tuned exhaust system on a NA engine is for better scavenging, with forced induction you can clear the cylinder much more effectively plus percentage wise any exhaust gases that might/could be left wouldn't dilute the fresh charge as much.

i didn't read any of this but there may be some information of interest

http://www.epi-eng.com/piston_engine_technology/exhaust_system_technology.htm


Well said Even an old fart like me could understand it. The only thing you left out is room constraints, which, when dealing with door slammers, has a major impact on design.


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