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Re: Building a 440--Need advice [Re: Biginchmopar] #1331962
11/08/12 03:26 AM
11/08/12 03:26 AM
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Posts: 5,875
communist bloc of new jersey
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jamesc Offline
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communist bloc of new jersey
Quote:

If were me I would get a set of Super Victor Max Wedge heads and the Super Victor Intake 4500. Get a good roller cam and build something around 500CID. This kind of combo will get 600 all day long.

The steath heads are just a 906 aluminum head.

One more thing I would use aluminum caps and forget the girdle.

Good luck! Keep us posted.






please no offense intended but good lord he said he's wanting 600 hp, you just named off $7000 worth of parts most of which are unnecessary for the level he's wanting. yes i know all about upgrading in the future but you have to draw the line somewhere

Re: Building a 440--Need advice [Re: jamesc] #1331963
11/08/12 03:34 AM
11/08/12 03:34 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,397
Carson City, Nevada
Biginchmopar Offline
pro stock
Biginchmopar  Offline
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Carson City, Nevada
I'm not offended at all, just trying to help.
I have a 456CID motor with B1-BS heads good cam M1 tunnel ram and it makes about 650HP, it not easy to do with less head trust me. I know he said he was on a budget but you would be way better off selling what you got and getting the parts to do the job.

Re: Building a 440--Need advice [Re: Biginchmopar] #1331964
11/08/12 04:01 AM
11/08/12 04:01 AM
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communist bloc of new jersey
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jamesc Offline
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communist bloc of new jersey
really Bob i get concerned sometimes people misconstrue things i say. i don't consider myself to be some crack engine builder but i would think the mild 451 has to be making close to an honest 600 to push 1800# 160+. there's nothing really trick about it either that's with a 4150, flat tappet and 11.5:1 CR. of course you can make more easier with more inches and better parts plus have the ability to increase output in the future but i guess i just try to be conservative.

the rpm head has no problem going to 600 but i would change the springs/retainers and do some clean up on it. also as mentioned using a lo deck helps with the A body fitment. i just assumed most people are going to use fenderwell headers on these. though they're not a particularly friendly header the options are very limited header wise. i don't use cheap parts because in my opinion and experience of others it's false economy. i do have a 3.91 chinese crank i might be putting together in the near future but that's the only imported part i have around. now i'm not saying everyone needs a callies or the like but chinese rockers, heads, rods, dampers etc will not be found in my collection. i've seen a pair of those chinese heads right out of the box with a retainer/lock assembly that probably wouldn't have survived break in without falling in the cylinder.

connecting rod selection has become dicey because most are using imported forgings. the manley sportsmasters were a nice rod but manley decided they could make more money using foreign forgings. anything above the import stuff is usually north of $1000. i do believe there are some vendors doing better finishing and quality control of the import stuff.

imho i absolutely would not use that manifold or rockers and personally though a fair number of people have been using the chinese heads i won't and wouldn't

Re: Building a 440--Need advice [Re: CSK] #1331965
11/08/12 11:17 AM
11/08/12 11:17 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,210
robin hood country
deaks Offline
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deaks  Offline
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robin hood country
My motor is around 600 hp.
It's a stock stroke RB, with .590 cam, J E domes, over 12.5.1 comp, aftermarket I beam rods, RPM's by MCH, milled to 76 cc, 5000 converter.
Best time in sig, i think it's got a 10.0 in it as it sits. I plan to take a little weight out over winter.
BTW, the short block came from a member here. He ran stage V1 heads on it and ran 9.92.
Mick


69 Dart GTS 440 mopar .590 cam, Edelbrock heads, 3200#
best et 6.45, 106.78, 10.14, 132.88 mph, 1.47 60ft
best 60ft 1.36
Re: Building a 440--Need advice [Re: jamesc] #1331966
11/08/12 11:21 AM
11/08/12 11:21 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
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383man Offline
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383man  Offline
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Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
I would go with the stroker as its not much more. I did as I wanted a pump gas driver that would still have enough guts to get my 3700 lb 63 in the 10's. I used a 440 block because I may go to the crossram one day so I stuck with the 440 block. Course you can use that or the 400. My self I used Indy EZ heads as I wanted a bit more then the Stealth and RPM heads in case I want to go faster later. If you have the Stealth heads CNC ported you might make the power you want. I use a solid flat tappet thats close to the MP .590 cam but with my Hughes 1.6 rockers it has about .630 lift. I have qood quench and 10.6 comp and it runs and races fine on 92 pump. I figure I make right about 600 flywheel hp. If you want to see the rest of my build just click the link as my 493 is at the bottom of the page. With a nice pump gas stroker you should have no problem running easy 10's in your Duster. Good luck , Ron

http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.com/mmo82008.html

Re: Building a 440--Need advice [Re: CudaPete] #1331967
11/08/12 12:28 PM
11/08/12 12:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,011
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart Offline
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Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
If it were my project I would bore the 400 to 4.375, use the stock stroke crank if it doesn't need to be reground, h beam rods and flat top pistons at zero deck. If you want to go stroker kit, you can offset grind the 440 crank or go all the way to 512 cubes with 4.25 stroke /4.375 bore. get SOME porting done to get flow up to 290 to 300 cfm, open the intake ports to max wedge size and go with an Indy low deck single plane manifold. Run the 590 cam, with 1.6 rockers if you buy new ones. If you cut the heads for more compression, you should make the 600 you want. After this, it is carb and header selection that will make the difference, and with the low exhaust port heads combined with the low deck you can find some good headers for it. Like most have said, this won't be tough to do, just pay attention to detail. Get the block line bored, decked, honed with torque plates, and use file fit rings. I have run aluminum main caps, and would go that way If this motor may see more than 600 hp. Otherwise if the bob weight comes in real light, and the rpm is low the stock caps ought to do.


8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: Building a 440--Need advice [Re: Biginchmopar] #1331968
11/08/12 01:21 PM
11/08/12 01:21 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,318
State of confusion
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Thumperdart Offline
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State of confusion
Quote:

I'm not offended at all, just trying to help.
I have a 456CID motor with B1-BS heads good cam M1 tunnel ram and it makes about 650HP, it not easy to do with less head trust me. I know he said he was on a budget but you would be way better off selling what you got and getting the parts to do the job.


Now THAT`S interesting............ My solid cammed Vickroy ported 906`s made 615 hp and 598 ft lbs. on Pettis`s dyno years ago and went 10.40`s w/major traction issues and my "THUMPER" ported e-brocks have pushed my 3200+ lb. dart to 9.79 @ 135+ so I`m pretty sure I`m making well over 600 hp on the cheap..........


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: Building a 440--Need advice [Re: CudaPete] #1331969
11/08/12 09:01 PM
11/08/12 09:01 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,966
Wendy, I'm home.
dstryr Offline
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Wendy, I'm home.

I had a stroked 440 built a few years ago with .030 overbore, 505" Source rotating assm, mildly ported Source heads which flowed 283cfm on the intake side, comp cams XS290S, and HS 1.5 roller rockers. Stuska dyno said 598 hp and 651tq on 92 octane and stock 69 6bbl setup.


dstryr, since 1986.
Re: Building a 440--Need advice [Re: dstryr] #1331970
11/08/12 11:30 PM
11/08/12 11:30 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 319
jonestown,pa
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dmking Offline
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jonestown,pa
i cracked a 440 block. running below 10.20s on a 440, stock crank 265@50 640ish cam solid old indy heads @ 335cfm. the cam in at 104 made 605 corrected and ran 10.70s. in at 108 it went 10.20 first day 3rd pass. went a season like that and cracked up through the mains.
i built a late thick main 440 and girdle. it better go past a season. trhe mains are over .120 thicker.
i will build a 400 stroker 451 or 470 next time. they are much stronger.

Re: Building a 440--Need advice [Re: dstryr] #1331971
11/08/12 11:30 PM
11/08/12 11:30 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 86
Bismarck
CudaPete Offline OP
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CudaPete  Offline OP
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Posts: 86
Bismarck
Thanks for all the replies. What intake recomendations would you guys have, and carb thoughts too.
I already and running fenderwell headers, and its not a street car so fitting the 440 won't be an issue.

Another question, how much weight can I get rid of switching to Lexan windows.

Thanks
Pete

Re: Building a 440--Need advice [Re: CudaPete] #1331972
11/09/12 01:23 AM
11/09/12 01:23 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,228
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Bend,OR USA
Buy a Dominator flanged single plane intake and a 1.5 or 2.0 inch phenolic spacer and a 1050 Dominator, two circuit if foot braking, three circuit if using a trans brake I have several pump gas stroker motors with regular 440 ports with six paks and single plane single four intakes, both 4150 and 4500. I also have several other stroker motor with M.W. intake port heads and the matching single plane intakes, 4150 and 4500. The more air you feed the old Mopar 440 motors the more power they will make, until it breaks the mains out of it Your probally real safe at 650 HP and under with good tuning,your never safe with bad tuning


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Building a 440--Need advice [Re: CudaPete] #1331973
11/09/12 04:25 AM
11/09/12 04:25 AM
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Posts: 5,875
communist bloc of new jersey
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jamesc Offline
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communist bloc of new jersey
Quote:

Thanks for all the replies. What intake recomendations would you guys have, and carb thoughts too.
I already and running fenderwell headers, and its not a street car so fitting the 440 won't be an issue.

Another question, how much weight can I get rid of switching to Lexan windows.

Thanks
Pete




i don't know offhand but there are numbers available around the web, it is a noteworthy amount especially if you include the regulators. as i mentioned it's an overall package the performs well. if it's a race car make it as light as you reasonably can. my father always told me it's easier to find a hundred places to take out one pound than one place to take out a hundred, you want to pull the minimum weight you can. spend time removing weight you can it's a maintenance free performance improvement.

you mentioned a 727, if it doesn't have a good sprag in it consider a sprag, LBA valve body and budget permitting a steel drum in that order.

Re: Building a 440--Need advice [Re: CudaPete] #1331974
11/09/12 10:04 AM
11/09/12 10:04 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,011
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart Offline
I Live Here
gregsdart  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,011
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
Quote:

Thanks for all the replies. What intake recomendations would you guys have, and carb thoughts too.
I already and running fenderwell headers, and its not a street car so fitting the 440 won't be an issue.

Another question, how much weight can I get rid of switching to Lexan windows.

Thanks
Pete



Sounds like you are leaning heavily towards the 440 block. The more cubes you put in that block, the lighter the parts get due to the very tall deck height. I have run 535 cubes in a 440 block, 4.5 stroke and 4.350 bore. Using a 7.10 rod with .990 piston pins and 2.2 rod journals makes for a good combo to get there. The piston gets real light due to a compression height of 1.35. They make a TON of torque and are very low rpm motors with small port heads.


8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: Building a 440--Need advice [Re: gregsdart] #1331975
11/09/12 11:12 AM
11/09/12 11:12 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,058
bigfork mn
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dragram440 Offline
super stock
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bigfork mn
I have a 440 stroked to 499 12.5-1 comp. .620 solid roller cam, ported stage VI heads, ported stage VI intake to go with the raised port heads,1050 dominator, and I believe it makes somewhere around 600 ponies at the flywheel. 3800 lb Charger goes 10.50's.


67' charger 499 RB 10.57 at 127
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