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Very low budget 440 hop up question. #1326257
10/25/12 11:11 PM
10/25/12 11:11 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,018
Missouri
MOBodyman Offline OP
super stock
MOBodyman  Offline OP
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Missouri
Posting for an older friend who doesn't use a computer.
He traded for an '80s Dodge 2wd shortbed pickup and a 440 motor. He is going to put the 440 in the truck. It was partially dissassembled to check the timing chain when he got it.
So, he's thinking he may put a little hotter cam in it while it's down that far. The motor is a '77 or '78 model so it's low compression. He's thinking of using one of the Summit cam and lifter kits since they seem to be the most economical. Not sure on the intake but he got an Edelbrock carb with it. He may have a cheap set of headers found for it also. It will have a stock 727 trans.
So what cam do you guys recommend for this application?
TIA,
Dallas


2012 Rallye Redline Challenger, 1st new car!
2010 Ram 1500 4wd HEMI-hauler
2014 Dodge Dart-gas saver
4 projects and a bunch of parts cars, losing interest since buying the Challenger lol
1969 Dodge Coronet 500-'gonna fix 'er up someday!'
Re: Very low budget 440 hop up question. [Re: MOBodyman] #1326258
10/25/12 11:19 PM
10/25/12 11:19 PM
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ALBERTA CANADA
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CUDA8U Offline
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ALBERTA CANADA
do a compression and leak down test before he soaks any money into it

Re: Very low budget 440 hop up question. [Re: MOBodyman] #1326259
10/25/12 11:19 PM
10/25/12 11:19 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
Circle Track
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Lincoln Nebraska
small Summit cam , advance it 4 deg with the multiple keyway timing gear set, spend ALOT of time dialing in the dizzy


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: Very low budget 440 hop up question. [Re: MOBodyman] #1326260
10/25/12 11:20 PM
10/25/12 11:20 PM
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Posts: 915
S.W. PA
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6PACMAC Offline
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S.W. PA
I vote for the small one. It should have more low end grunt. It should work better with the low, low compression. The stock cam may work better than both.

Re: Very low budget 440 hop up question. [Re: 6PACMAC] #1326261
10/26/12 01:33 AM
10/26/12 01:33 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo Offline
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Is he building this truck as a puller or as a street machine type cruiser? I put a mild cam in a 76 smogger 440 like your friend's and with those smogger 70's low compression pistons, you can't put in much of a cam without also at a minimum doing a high stall torq converter and having numerically high rear gears.

Re: Very low budget 440 hop up question. [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #1326262
10/26/12 07:07 AM
10/26/12 07:07 AM
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the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader Offline
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If its not a crop-duster like most used 440's, then i'd say he'd be better off just zipping it back up with the stock cam and spending that money on a used Holley Street Dominator or RPM intake and Holley 750 (if thats not the mystery intake he already has, then sell what he has to make up some money). With just that, a really good tune in the electronic distributor and headers into a GOOD dual exhaust he should be looking at a very nice gain in power and torque. As for cams, i'd wait until he could just scrounge up a bit more money and buy a better cam... I'm not a huge Comp fan, but the sheer volume they sell can mean some pretty damn good prices on shelf cams like the newer high-lift 275. I personally wouldn't go with a generic cam just to save some money.

Maybe while its still down he can pull the heads and clean 'em up with a die-grinder? if he has some decent 516's or 915's kicking around maybe shave 'em and swap them on to make up at least some compression?

Re: Very low budget 440 hop up question. [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #1326263
10/26/12 07:09 AM
10/26/12 07:09 AM
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Posts: 6,392
nielsville, minn.
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quickd100 Offline
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nielsville, minn.
The compression on that motor is in the mid to high 7's-1. I milled a set of 516 closed chamber heads until they were at 65cc's and used a steel shim head gasket and got my compression up to 9.2-1. If he isn't going to change pistons or mill heads as stated above a very small cam will help.Dave

Re: Very low budget 440 hop up question. [Re: MOBodyman] #1326264
10/26/12 10:54 AM
10/26/12 10:54 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck  Offline
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Brookeville, Md
order the small summit cam and t-chain set. Try and find a CH4B intake or any old dual plane intake (except Performer), add a 4 hole 1/2" spacer under the carb, and use the headers. I'd think if his heads are ok have them milled .030 and by all means use the steel shim gaskets. That should get him up to 8:1. If the heads look like junk find a set of 516's or any closed chamber head. I'd set the initial timing at 16* and full at 38* in by 2400. Should run fine.


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Re: Very low budget 440 hop up question. [Re: Pale_Roader] #1326265
10/26/12 12:58 PM
10/26/12 12:58 PM
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Posts: 5,166
CT
GTX MATT Offline
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Quote:


If its not a crop-duster like most used 440's,




Not to get off topic, but whats the deal with that? I swear every used 440 has 300k + miles on it and never had the oil changed


Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat
Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
Re: Very low budget 440 hop up question. [Re: GTX MATT] #1326266
10/26/12 01:15 PM
10/26/12 01:15 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,494
Western Colorado High Desert
moparmarks Offline
I Live Here
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Western Colorado High Desert
That is what is in my 72 Satellite no budget beater. Drove home a 75 D200 from the crusher. Motor ran great with no smoke. Come to find out it has a fairly fresh re-build on it. So took it down to the long block, putting all the car stuff on it. New main seals and such. Use a Comp 454 lift cam that I had laying around with lifters and matching springs. Pretty close to what came in a 68-70 440HP motor.
Had a old Weiand manifold and Holley 3310 that I used. Bought a new set of shorty headers from a friend. 727 w/ stock convertor. 355 S/G.
Runs great for what it is. Will smokem' through 2nd. Runs on mid-grade.

7436017-1100(4).JPG (62 downloads)

72 Satellite Sebring Plus 440, 72 Dart 5.9 4-spd, 68 Valiant, 73 W200, 78 D100 sb, 78 D200, 98 DAKOTA, .
Moparmarks Parts & Restorations
Desert Mopar Metal
Grand Jct. CO
970-261-7039
http://moparmark.com/
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Re: Very low budget 440 hop up question. [Re: CUDA8U] #1326267
10/26/12 05:13 PM
10/26/12 05:13 PM
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Indiana
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Fury Fan Offline
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Indiana
Quote:

do a compression and leak down test before he soaks any money into it



Followed by an oil pressure check.

So many used-engine budget-builds start out with choosing speed parts instead of assessing engine health.


Parts I seek: driver doorpanel, 65 Sport Fury, prefer black, needs to be 7-8 on 10 scale, might buy set 16" x 6" Dodge truck wheel(s), from early 70s?, takes 9" dogdish - need for a research job so cheaper is better. 69-73 C-body caliper brackets and/or splashields Send a PM.
Re: Very low budget 440 hop up question. [Re: Fury Fan] #1326268
10/26/12 06:29 PM
10/26/12 06:29 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,494
Western Colorado High Desert
moparmarks Offline
I Live Here
moparmarks  Offline
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Western Colorado High Desert
Quote:

Quote:

do a compression and leak down test before he soaks any money into it



Followed by an oil pressure check.

So many used-engine budget-builds start out with choosing speed parts instead of assessing engine health.





Read the spark plus too. Make sure you have a good foundation to build on.


72 Satellite Sebring Plus 440, 72 Dart 5.9 4-spd, 68 Valiant, 73 W200, 78 D100 sb, 78 D200, 98 DAKOTA, .
Moparmarks Parts & Restorations
Desert Mopar Metal
Grand Jct. CO
970-261-7039
http://moparmark.com/
motormangj@gmail.com
Re: Very low budget 440 hop up question. [Re: moparmarks] #1326269
10/27/12 12:05 AM
10/27/12 12:05 AM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,018
Missouri
MOBodyman Offline OP
super stock
MOBodyman  Offline OP
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Missouri
Thanks for the replies. I relayed all the info to him so he can decide what to do.
The motor ran fine and isn't sludged up inside so it seems to be in good condition. It has the plastic coated timing gear so that may be original. The teeth look fine but the chain has a little stretch to it so he is definately going to change the chain and gear.
The truck is just going to be a budget cruiser/toy but he can't put a lot of money into it.
Thanks for the help,
Dallas


2012 Rallye Redline Challenger, 1st new car!
2010 Ram 1500 4wd HEMI-hauler
2014 Dodge Dart-gas saver
4 projects and a bunch of parts cars, losing interest since buying the Challenger lol
1969 Dodge Coronet 500-'gonna fix 'er up someday!'
Re: Very low budget 440 hop up question. [Re: MOBodyman] #1326270
10/27/12 12:23 AM
10/27/12 12:23 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo Offline
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Then it sounds like he should leave it all stock, do the timing chain and maybe a cheap set of headers with a dual exhaust. Put the rest of the money towards the odds and ends that pop up to get it finished.

Re: Very low budget 440 hop up question. [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #1326271
10/27/12 01:12 AM
10/27/12 01:12 AM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,018
Missouri
MOBodyman Offline OP
super stock
MOBodyman  Offline OP
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Missouri
Quote:

Then it sounds like he should leave it all stock, do the timing chain and maybe a cheap set of headers with a dual exhaust. Put the rest of the money towards the odds and ends that pop up to get it finished.




If it were my project, that's what I would do.
Thanks,
Dallas


2012 Rallye Redline Challenger, 1st new car!
2010 Ram 1500 4wd HEMI-hauler
2014 Dodge Dart-gas saver
4 projects and a bunch of parts cars, losing interest since buying the Challenger lol
1969 Dodge Coronet 500-'gonna fix 'er up someday!'
Re: Very low budget 440 hop up question. [Re: GTX MATT] #1326272
10/27/12 08:52 AM
10/27/12 08:52 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader Offline
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Pale_Roader  Offline
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Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Quote:

Quote:


If its not a crop-duster like most used 440's,




Not to get off topic, but whats the deal with that? I swear every used 440 has 300k + miles on it and never had the oil changed




Maybe i have just personally had profoundly bad luck with Mopar engines, but i have had a lot ov them, almost all big blocks, all original builds. I have obviously been around many many more, some rebuilt (nothing awesome by Moparts standards), some stock as well. I have just NEVER been impressed by a stock Mopar big block. Compared to the (almost as many) GM big blocks ive had and been around, they were junk. GREAT design for the most part... just put together badly and subsequently, they do not age well.

Ov course... build one, and do it right and all this goes out the window.

Funny... i dont think i've ever had a really high-mile Mopar big block either. Just over 200K probably the most. I've only had very limited experience with Olds or Pontiac, but i've had more than a few Buick 350's, 430's and 455's, and Cadillac 472/500's. They were all originals, yet still clean and smooth.

Heh... now i hate to admit this next one, but i've had but one small block Chevy in my life... came stock in my 71 LeMans. That car was 100% original, never rebuilt, and the engine had well over 300000 miles on it. Ran smooth, didn't smoke, didn't burn much oil. Even made decent power for what it was. I HATE SBC's... but dammit... that was just a damn good engine. Compare that to the half-dozen 340's i've had and not ONE didn't shake, and again, most burned oil.

Re: Very low budget 440 hop up question. [Re: Pale_Roader] #1326273
10/27/12 09:26 AM
10/27/12 09:26 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,880
Out in Left Field, NY
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bobs66440 Offline
top fuel
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Out in Left Field, NY
Quote:

I HATE SBC's... but dammit... that was just a damn good engine.



Agreed, the most boring engine ever...but they are popular for a reason....







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