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383 Piston rod orientation #1320277
10/14/12 04:21 PM
10/14/12 04:21 PM
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Seattle, WA.
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edp Offline OP
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thought I'd share this - I installed all the pistons yesterday, made sure all the indents in the piston edges were facing forward.




Checked for bearing clearance, thats all good & then I noticed a cap on #5 looking funny as I was checking the clearance between the rods. It looked like I had a bit of a tapered gap going from one side of the cap to the other.

so I pulled the cap & started to suspect the rods are backwards...



the large chamfers on the rods & caps are facing each other. I was also told by a guy whose rebuilt a few mopars that the groove on the cap is meant to squirt oil towards the opposite cyl wall, these are pointing to the block castings.

Pulled 2 more caps, 1 & 5 & you can see the bevels are facing one another.



I finally noticed the bold type paragraph in the FSM on pg 66 that says which way the bevels face for all the pistons. Ultimately it makes me assume the machine shop pressed the rods in backwards. It does spin over w/o resistance but now it looks like I gotta take them out, have them re-press the rods back on & do it all over.

I believe the bevels are there to clearance the casting parts of the crank to the L & R of the rod journals & I assume thats pretty important. Hate to do all this work & screw it up over something so stupid.

Are the bearing tangs / tabs supposed to be on the same side of the con rod when assembled? They'd be on the same bolt then - that's correct isn't it?

My problem is I didn't disassemble this motor as I could not get the dampener pulley bolt off so I took it to the machine shop & they disassembled it. Had I done it I've have many pictures - too bad

Anyone ever run a motor with the rods facing the wrong way - whats the end result?

Thanks all,Evan

Re: 383 Piston rod orientation [Re: edp] #1320278
10/14/12 04:35 PM
10/14/12 04:35 PM
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Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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The large tapper goes to the crank side... the anti-spin
tangs are on the same bolt/stud.... no I've never
ran them the way you are asking

Re: 383 Piston rod orientation [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1320279
10/14/12 05:10 PM
10/14/12 05:10 PM
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Denison,Ia.
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Denison,Ia.
Campher goes to crank side not together rod to rod. Groove goes toward cam. Numbers to outside of block. Tang and tang same side. Now if you will listen. If you are lucky you can get all this right and end up with piston notches towards rear of engine. It all has to do with piston pin offset for quit cold opperation. All of us old timers remember Chrysler telling us to reverse the piston. Worth some 15 hp and the engine will rev up way faster. Story I, I had a 69 factory 440 cuda. motor apart with 150 miles on car swapping pistons was on of the mods. Done car ran on the national record. When retired from racing car went over one hundred thousand miles with pistons like that and nver a problem

Re: 383 Piston rod orientation [Re: Cuda367] #1320280
10/14/12 05:32 PM
10/14/12 05:32 PM
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Seattle, WA.
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edp Offline OP
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Quote:

Now if you will listen. If you are lucky you can get all this right and end up with piston notches towards rear of engine. It all has to do with piston pin offset for quit cold opperation. All of us old timers remember Chrysler telling us to reverse the piston. Worth some 15 hp and the engine will rev up way faster. Story I, I had a 69 factory 440 cuda. motor apart with 150 miles on car swapping pistons was on of the mods. Done car ran on the national record. When retired from racing car went over one hundred thousand miles with pistons like that and nver a problem




OK Im listening, are you saying I can reverse the pistons in the bore & it'll be fine? I thought the piston orientation to the front of the block was for balance (for lack of a better description) of the rotating assembly due to pin offest, by flipping them around wouldn't that cause wear issues with pressure on the bearings or something like that? I'm just asking because I do not know.

So the mod you did was to have the rods pressed on in reverse, like mine are & have the large bevel face the crank but the piston face oriented towards the rear of block - correct?

Anyone else ever do this trick, I'm all for more power & not having to screw around with taking pistons back to the machine shop. What would others do?

Thanks!

Last edited by edp; 10/14/12 05:36 PM.
Re: 383 Piston rod orientation [Re: edp] #1320281
10/14/12 06:09 PM
10/14/12 06:09 PM
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Denison,Ia.
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Yes, we did this alot back years ago and it still holds true. Back then we just took all the odd number rods and pistons and put them in the even number bank and and even number in odd number bank. As I said it was in the chrysler speed books. Made those engines rev up like a small block. Only thing you may notice is a little piston noise when cold although I never heard it with the factory pistons in a good snug bore and very slight with the trw's we used to use. Trust me the bearings arn't going to know the difference.

Re: 383 Piston rod orientation [Re: edp] #1320282
10/14/12 06:21 PM
10/14/12 06:21 PM
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Romeo MI
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Just swap the pistons into different bores so the bevel
on the rods are towards the crank... keeping the
notch to the front... you'll be fine

Re: 383 Piston rod orientation [Re: Cuda367] #1320283
10/14/12 08:02 PM
10/14/12 08:02 PM
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Bend,OR USA
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Quote:

Yes, we did this alot back years ago and it still holds true. Back then we just took all the odd number rods and pistons and put them in the even number bank and and even number in odd number bank. As I said it was in the chrysler speed books. Made those engines rev up like a small block. Only thing you may notice is a little piston noise when cold although I never heard it with the factory pistons in a good snug bore and very slight with the trw's we used to use. Trust me the bearings arn't going to know the difference.


I remember meeting a racer in a grocery store parking lot in Riversdie,CA around 1964 or 1965 towing a 1961 Plymuoth Savoy with a 1963 Dodge 4 door hardtop that had the 383 motor out of the Plymouth in it. These guys had been racing SS with the Plymouth and bought the four door Dodge that had a 426 M.W motor in it from the factory They swapped the motors, not sure what they did about the trans., and started running Modified Production with the Plymouth. That old 383 had the pistons in backwards according to the driver of the Dodge when he started it up, same trick as mentioned That trick works on the Street Hemi pistons also It will probally work on any piston that has a offset wrist pin in it Put the rods in correctly and flip the pistons to take advantage of the benifits


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: 383 Piston rod orientation [Re: Cab_Burge] #1320284
10/15/12 10:57 AM
10/15/12 10:57 AM
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Seattle, WA.
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edp Offline OP
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thanks for all the ideas guy, its good to know I can resolve this w/o going back to the machine shop.

Weird screw up though...

Thx.
Evan

Re: 383 Piston rod orientation [Re: edp] #1320285
10/15/12 11:29 AM
10/15/12 11:29 AM
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Yep, I agree, put the pistons in backwards. It depends on the pistons. If yours are stock types with the pin offset, there are a few horsepower to be gained by reversing the offset (having the indents point towards the back of the block).
What is the disadvantage? You will have slightly more noise on cold startup. That's all.
If they are high performance pistons with zero offset, there is no change at all.
The offset pin is entirely for reducing piston slap, nothing else.

Whatever you do, DO NOT take the pistons back and have them pressed off and pressed on. There is some risk involved and the pistons or pin bores may become damaged. It isn't worth it.
R.







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