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Aftermarket UCA's-Options, Experiences, etc... #1310325
09/25/12 11:24 AM
09/25/12 11:24 AM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,358
Berwyn, IL
challenger70 Offline OP
master
challenger70  Offline OP
master

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,358
Berwyn, IL
I looked through all the threads in this forum and didn't see any dedicated to UCA's. If I missed it please link it and I will refer to it. What I would like is a discussion on options, experiences, opinions, everything.

We can keep it general enough to benefit everyone, but my application will by my '68 Charger which is in middle of restoration, what I do have so far is a XV stage 1 suspension kit, us car tools subframe connectors, inner fender braces and factory style torque boxes at all 4 coners. I also have gen 3 viper calipers for the front and plan on running mustang 17" wheels to start (will get the AR kit). Drivetrain is planned to be some form of big block stroker, hemi 4 speed(possibly passon 5-speed) and S-60 dana w/ disks. Everyhing else is up in the air. I plan on mainly (90+%) spirited street driving with an occasional track day/autocross.

Re: Aftermarket UCA's-Options, Experiences, etc... [Re: challenger70] #1310326
09/25/12 01:53 PM
09/25/12 01:53 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 841
Santa Fe Springs, CA
Dan@Hotchkis Offline
super stock
Dan@Hotchkis  Offline
super stock

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 841
Santa Fe Springs, CA

Re: Aftermarket UCA's-Options, Experiences, etc... [Re: challenger70] #1310327
09/25/12 02:01 PM
09/25/12 02:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,471
So Cal
autoxcuda Offline
Too Many Posts
autoxcuda  Offline
Too Many Posts

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,471
So Cal
To start with, I see the options out there as this for 63-72 B-body and E-body UCA's:


  • Stock UCA with stock rubber bushing
  • Stock UCA with Moog #7103 offset rubber bushing for 3-5 postive caster
  • Tubular UCA with poly bushings
  • Tubular UCA with sperical rod ends
  • Tubular UCA with turnbuckle legs with clevis attachment with poly bushings
  • Tubular UCA with turnbuckle legs with clevis attachment with sperical rod ends
  • Tubular UCA with sperical rod ends
  • Tubular UCA improved geometry with changed attachment point for reduced bumpsteer with sperical rod ends


Any other off the shelf options please feel free to add.

Re: Aftermarket UCA's-Options, Experiences, etc... [Re: autoxcuda] #1310328
09/25/12 03:09 PM
09/25/12 03:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,785
Utah and Alaska
astjp2 Offline
master
astjp2  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,785
Utah and Alaska
Tublar adjustable with poly bushings,
tublar fixed wtih poly or rubber
Quote:

To start with, I see the options out there as this for 63-72 B-body and E-body UCA's:


  • Stock UCA with stock rubber bushing
  • Stock UCA with Moog #7103 offset rubber bushing for 3-5 postive caster
  • Tubular UCA with poly bushings
  • Tubular UCA with sperical rod ends
  • Tubular UCA with turnbuckle legs with clevis attachment with poly bushings
  • Tubular UCA with turnbuckle legs with clevis attachment with sperical rod ends
  • Tubular UCA with sperical rod ends
  • Tubular UCA improved geometry with changed attachment point for reduced bumpsteer with sperical rod ends


Any other off the shelf options please feel free to add.



Re: Aftermarket UCA's-Options, Experiences, etc... [Re: autoxcuda] #1310329
09/25/12 03:09 PM
09/25/12 03:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
ScottSmith_Harms Offline
Mr Wizzard
ScottSmith_Harms  Offline
Mr Wizzard

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
Quote:

Stock UCA with stock rubber bushing

Stock UCA with Moog #7103 offset rubber bushing for 3-5 postive caster

Tubular UCA with poly bushings

Tubular UCA with sperical rod ends

Tubular UCA with turnbuckle legs with clevis attachment with poly bushings

Tubular UCA with turnbuckle legs with clevis attachment with sperical rod ends



Tubular UCA improved geometry with changed attachment point for reduced bumpsteer with sperical rod ends





There, fixed it for you

Re: Aftermarket UCA's-Options, Experiences, etc... [Re: autoxcuda] #1310330
09/25/12 04:17 PM
09/25/12 04:17 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
J
jcc Offline
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
jcc  Offline
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
J

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: Aftermarket UCA's-Options, Experiences, etc... [Re: jcc] #1310331
09/25/12 06:47 PM
09/25/12 06:47 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,664
IN
A
ahy Offline
master
ahy  Offline
master
A

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,664
IN
I'm running the FF tubular UCA's with poly bushings on a '70E. The alignment came in where I wanted (>5 poitive caster and -.75 camber). The parts appear well made and have been trouble free for 5+ years, 10k miles.

As for opinions or observations, the gusset at the ball joint mount is very important. I've seen a number of pics posted here of tubular UCA's without gusset that let go at the weld on a roll. Not pretty.

Re: Aftermarket UCA's-Options, Experiences, etc... [Re: ahy] #1310332
09/26/12 11:16 AM
09/26/12 11:16 AM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,358
Berwyn, IL
challenger70 Offline OP
master
challenger70  Offline OP
master

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,358
Berwyn, IL
I have heard concerns over some designs, which of those are designs to "steer away from" and why?

Re: Aftermarket UCA's-Options, Experiences, etc... [Re: ahy] #1310333
09/26/12 12:42 PM
09/26/12 12:42 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
J
jcc Offline
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
jcc  Offline
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
J

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: Aftermarket UCA's-Options, Experiences, etc... [Re: jcc] #1310334
09/26/12 07:06 PM
09/26/12 07:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,664
IN
A
ahy Offline
master
ahy  Offline
master
A

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,664
IN
Quote:

Quote:

the gusset at the ball joint mount is very important. I've seen a number of pics posted here of tubular UCA's without gusset that let go at the weld on a roll. Not pretty.




Not sure what the op intended use is and if "roll" is included.
If what you mean is a wreck, then that really complicates matters, such as what is the most important item that needs to survive a wreck vs parts that break/fail/fall off and dissipate energy. Is a uca stronger with gussets and is it heavier sure, cost more likely, stronger then stock? So other then not pretty alluded to roll failures, any other examples of non gusseted failures?




on a roll = when driving. Just an expression and apparantly not universal. UCA's that let go while driving are a problem...

Re: Aftermarket UCA's-Options, Experiences, etc... [Re: ahy] #1310335
09/26/12 07:54 PM
09/26/12 07:54 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
J
jcc Offline
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
jcc  Offline
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
J

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: Aftermarket UCA's-Options, Experiences, etc... [Re: ahy] #1310336
09/30/12 12:08 AM
09/30/12 12:08 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,699
Newport, Mi
Evil Spirit Offline
master
Evil Spirit  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,699
Newport, Mi
Quote:

I'm running the FF tubular UCA's with poly bushings on a '70E. The alignment came in where I wanted (>5 poitive caster and -.75 camber). The parts appear well made and have been trouble free for 5+ years, 10k miles.

As for opinions or observations, the gusset at the ball joint mount is very important. I've seen a number of pics posted here of tubular UCA's without gusset that let go at the weld on a roll. Not pretty.




1 car, 1 UCA - same pics - repeated ad infinitum by an ax grinder. Circumstances of failure, as in actual facts, were never posted by the owner to be rebutted by the vendor, but there sure were a lot of "experts" ringing in with their "humble opinions".


Free advice and worth every penny...
Factory trained Slinky rewinder.........
Re: Aftermarket UCA's-Options, Experiences, etc... [Re: Evil Spirit] #1310337
10/02/12 04:35 PM
10/02/12 04:35 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 27
CA
J
Joe Dokes Offline
member
Joe Dokes  Offline
member
J

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 27
CA
I disagree, I've seen the picture of the failed UCA. It is quite clear from the picture that a manufacturing defect was the cause of the failure. The weld did not have adequate penetration, as a result the part failed at the weld. This should NEVER occur. When a joint is properly designed and welded the joint should be stronger than the parent material surrounding the weld. Thus, in a tubular control arm the tube should fracture or bend well before the weld gives way. Preferably, the tube should bend, allowing the part to fail "gracefully." It is quite evident from the picture that this arm failed suddenly and catastrophically.

I don't care if the failure was caused by the buyer of the part jumping the car, the arm should not fail at the weld. Period. Had the tube fractured that could still be a problem as it probably shows a design error in the choice of parent material. For example, the use of chromoly steel MIGHT be inadvisable since it is more prone to cracking than mild steel. Ideally, you'd see a bent arm, or tearing in the material that shows that the part was slowly ripped apart under great stress.

For example, in the NTHSA offset crash tests, the front wheel can be ripped from the car. If the test shows that the control arms stretched a good portion before failing, that would in my view show a properly designed part; because, as the part was stressed beyond its designed capabilities, it deformed substantially before breaking. Thus in a real world crash, where a car hits a huge pothole or drops a wheel off the pavement, the arm is likely to deform (bend) well before braking.

Regards,

Joe Dokes

Re: Aftermarket UCA's-Options, Experiences, etc... [Re: challenger70] #1310338
10/02/12 05:53 PM
10/02/12 05:53 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,708
S. Il. U.S.A.
5spdcuda Offline
top fuel
5spdcuda  Offline
top fuel

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,708
S. Il. U.S.A.
I use Firm Feel uppers with FMJ spindles. Alignment wasn't any problem and no other real problems.
A minor issue is grease wants to ooze out of the bottom of the ball joint seals.

Re: Aftermarket UCA's-Options, Experiences, etc... [Re: Joe Dokes] #1310339
10/03/12 02:34 AM
10/03/12 02:34 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,699
Newport, Mi
Evil Spirit Offline
master
Evil Spirit  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,699
Newport, Mi
Quote:

I disagree, I've seen the picture of the failed UCA. It is quite clear from the picture that a manufacturing defect was the cause of the failure. The weld did not have adequate penetration, as a result the part failed at the weld. This should NEVER occur. When a joint is properly designed and welded the joint should be stronger than the parent material surrounding the weld. Thus, in a tubular control arm the tube should fracture or bend well before the weld gives way. Preferably, the tube should bend, allowing the part to fail "gracefully." It is quite evident from the picture that this arm failed suddenly and catastrophically.

I don't care if the failure was caused by the buyer of the part jumping the car, the arm should not fail at the weld. Period. Had the tube fractured that could still be a problem as it probably shows a design error in the choice of parent material. For example, the use of chromoly steel MIGHT be inadvisable since it is more prone to cracking than mild steel. Ideally, you'd see a bent arm, or tearing in the material that shows that the part was slowly ripped apart under great stress.

For example, in the NTHSA offset crash tests, the front wheel can be ripped from the car. If the test shows that the control arms stretched a good portion before failing, that would in my view show a properly designed part; because, as the part was stressed beyond its designed capabilities, it deformed substantially before breaking. Thus in a real world crash, where a car hits a huge pothole or drops a wheel off the pavement, the arm is likely to deform (bend) well before braking.

Regards,

Joe Dokes




A G A I N - 1 car, 1 UCA - same pics - repeated ad infinitum by an ax grinder. A G A I N - Circumstances of failure, as in actual facts, were never posted by the owner to be rebutted by the vendor.

First, we've all seen the pictures, WAY too many times for ONE part failure. PICTURES indicate a weld failure. On ONE UCA, out of how many in production. Everybody has been stuck on a weld failure - ok, fine, lets skip the ACTUAL INSPECTION of the UCA (since it was never produced to be inspected by the vendor) and go by the PICTURE and say that one weld out of HOW MANY (parts produced) failed. Now that we have a FAILED WELD - WHY did it fail? Hmmmm - the plot thickens... Was it a "Race Only" part, designed to be as light as possible, that was being used in an improper situation, as in STREET USE? Before anyone says that shouldn't make a difference, look at all the lightweight wheels labeled "not for street use", because of the additional possibility of curb, chuckhole, etc. damage. And those rims when used on the street get damaged and FAIL REGULARLY. So if the UCA that failed wasn't designed to be used on the street, or marketed as such - why should it be expected to survive "street damages", as in curbs, not to mention being installed on a car several hundred pounds over "race" weight, etc.

And one last scenario for all of US "armchair engineers" out there - given enough of a trauma, ANY part will fail - PERIOD. Since NOBODY knows whether or not the action that caused that particular UCA to fail would have also caused a stock or a "street application" tube UCA to also fail, it's pretty much just typing practice from then on.

And just for the record - I'm not real warm and fuzzy about ANYBODIES tube front end parts. I've installed them because the customer wanted them. I don't sell them and I won't order them. The overall weight savings are never anywhere near the claims after the needed braces, bars, etc. are installed to bring the strength back to the front end. There is no way a single tube crossbar K member has the same overall integrity as a factory K, as in bracing the framerails for side to side flex. Many rack kits end up with horrible bump steer, to the point where the outside wheel starts going overcenter and starts turning out. Many of the parts are designed for "X" plane strength with little thought about the " Y + Z" loads. So when it comes to lightweight parts - I pretty much just let them sign a check and I'll install who evers boxes shows up at the door... If it fits.

Regards, Willie Shaw


Free advice and worth every penny...
Factory trained Slinky rewinder.........
Re: Aftermarket UCA's-Options, Experiences, etc... [Re: Evil Spirit] #1310340
10/03/12 07:36 PM
10/03/12 07:36 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,491
Lethbridge, AB, Canada
dangina Offline
pro stock
dangina  Offline
pro stock

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,491
Lethbridge, AB, Canada
Ive always been told to label "not for street use" on aftermarket products for legal issues...

Re: Aftermarket UCA's-Options, Experiences, etc... [Re: dangina] #1310341
10/05/12 10:53 AM
10/05/12 10:53 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,651
San Jose,CA
migsBIG Offline
YouTube is my go-to news source
migsBIG  Offline
YouTube is my go-to news source

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,651
San Jose,CA
I'm on my 2nd set of MF uppers (1st on challenger, current on 70' barracuda) car and really can tell the diffrence. When I pickup my 3rd pair, it will be on my 72' charger.

Re: Aftermarket UCA's-Options, Experiences, etc... [Re: migsBIG] #1310342
10/06/12 10:51 PM
10/06/12 10:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 797
WA
P
pro451bee Offline
super stock
pro451bee  Offline
super stock
P

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 797
WA
Yup,Magnum force here too.One of the best upgrades to the Bee.

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