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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: fishy340]
#1300020
09/08/12 10:25 PM
09/08/12 10:25 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,279
PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,279
PA.
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Very nice.  I said it before and I will say it again. These are great days for those of us racing MOPARS. Here's a link to the above post. http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=129971&page=98
1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.38@138.67
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: skrews]
#1300023
09/11/12 08:50 PM
09/11/12 08:50 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 21,206
in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 21,206
in a cattle trailer down by th...
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Quote:
Quick somebody run out and buy a set. Let us know if they're any good or not. 
That's a great idea, why don't you do it? I have way too much invested in my W5's to even consider changing anything at this time.
"Come get your wife"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Front and rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: fishy340]
#1300025
09/12/12 05:54 AM
09/12/12 05:54 AM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 793
Utah
topbrent
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 793
Utah
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: DemonDust]
#1300030
09/13/12 05:59 AM
09/13/12 05:59 AM
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 434
Washington
skrews
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 434
Washington
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Quote:
If these come out at a good price I can see Rods stroker cranks flying out the door. They say things happen in 3s. So we have Rods cranks, these heads, and what do you think will be the topper for the SB world? 
Now we need an AFORDABLE siamese 4.125 bore block with 4 bolt splayed steel caps.
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: RAMM]
#1300032
09/13/12 07:49 AM
09/13/12 07:49 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,279
PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,279
PA.
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It says in that post its an imported casting so that should hold the price down some.
1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.38@138.67
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#1300033
09/13/12 09:57 AM
09/13/12 09:57 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,945
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,945
Weddington, N.C.
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was 323 @ .700 now 316 @ .700 and now publishing @.900 lift  RAMM, I agree and understand port stall but for the majority of people (running something like a CompXE 284 at ~.525 of flat tap lift) it's not much better "real world" than a set of ported Eddies. With flat tappets the flow at peak really means less (it's more comparable to a roller measured .050 or .100 less than the FT peak since there's no real 'effective duration" at the peak of a flattie). Like you, I'm sure I always compare/measure/calc the % gain from the previous lift point rather than just look at the peak numbers at face value. Overall I was more impressed with Brian @ IMM's 305 cfm Eddies that he ran the pushrod tubes through. I think they were even better through the middle (where it does the most good) than these. BTW....I'm also impressed with the work you guys up North of the border are doing too. Mid lifts (.200-.500) still look good but not Amazing, my point on the high lifts is anyone running a .700+ lift cam is going to want a bigger/better/offset rocker intake head to start with 
Last edited by Streetwize; 09/13/12 10:00 AM.
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: Streetwize]
#1300034
09/13/12 11:14 AM
09/13/12 11:14 AM
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,057
The Great White North
RAMM
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,057
The Great White North
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Oh I totally agree that if you plan to run huge lifts or large cubic inches then yes a standard port window head/no-offset rocker is NOT worth it. That's why I would bet these are aimed at the 4" and larger stroke STREET crowd 'cuz I see no place for them on anything serious.
As for low lift flow numbers--I don't want great flow rates at anything under .400"--even street stuff. I have done some testing with high low lift flow (30* seats) and it sucked--even on a street engine.
For example I was degreeing the cam on my 416 yesterday and measured that the intake valve was open more than .225" with the piston going the WRONG way. You can imagine what happens when you have great low lift flow numbers in that scenario. With all that being said--thanks for the compliment, but I still think it will be a powerful head for 95% of the people who buy them and stick them on 400+ cube small blocks that won't see much over 6000rpm. I do think the chamber is ugly however-but looks aren't everything. J.Rob
p.s. I do think we're trying to say the same thing--It boils down to choosing the best parts for the application. Question is-What application suits these heads best?
2009 PHR\EMC Competitor
2010 PHR\EMC Competitor
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2014 HotRod/EMC Competitor
2015 HotRod/EMC NoShow
2016 HotRod/EMC 3rd place SPEC Bigblock
2018 HotRod/EMC 7th place G3
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: RAMM]
#1300036
09/13/12 11:33 AM
09/13/12 11:33 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,266
Renton Washington
Triple Threat
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,266
Renton Washington
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I think it will be a good in between head. Possibly an upgrade for someone who already has good rockers, intake and headers for the standard SBM layout but wants a little more giddy up. I have ported eddies currently that flow 280@.600, granted there should be some more on the table with these, but instead of sending them back for more porting, these new heads might be a better bargain. All depends on where the price point ends up. We all know what a CNC'd Indy top end costs. If they can price them significantly less than that I think they will sell well.
-Dustin
67 Dart, 9 second, 392" G3 Hemi
68 Barracuda 340 F/SA
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: Streetwize]
#1300040
09/13/12 04:26 PM
09/13/12 04:26 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 793
Utah
topbrent
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 793
Utah
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Quote:
StreetWize:
What I'm wondering ( as controversial as it sounds) is why can't we adopt the LS architecture? There are already old school SBC's and even Fords that have built LS frankensteins already. Make a sbm casting that incorporates the LS ports and make a new Cam, intake and headers?
Adapting the LS head to a SBM would be awesome. However, that is a lot of effort just to preserve the motormount location, distributor, oil pan and bellhousing pattern IMHO. If adopting the LS head platform is the idea, you would be better served to just go all the way and install the LS shortblock as well. The factory iron 6.0 blocks can handle over 1000+hp without hesitation. Stronger inherent design.
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: Streetwize]
#1300043
10/02/12 07:29 PM
10/02/12 07:29 PM
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 41
anaheim Ca
Bryce Mulvey
member
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member
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 41
anaheim Ca
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FYI the 408 dyno test with airwolf 220 heads got moved to Moparts Hot Deals & New Products. Nicely done MR.ModeratorJust tested the New AIRWOLF 220 Small block Mopar heads. The heads work great. The big kicker is they are non offset heads and take all standard LA hardware 408 Mopar 633hp 562 ft lbs with New AIRWOLF 220 Small Block Mopar heads 4.030 bore X 4 inch stroke Diamond Pistons 1/16 1/16 3/16 rings Flat top (11.5 to 1compression) 6.123 h beam rod Crane solid roller 260/266 108 lsa 104 ICL .672 lift with 1.6 rockers Dr J’s Ported Super Victor Holley Ultra hp 950 NEW AIRWOLF 220 Small Block Mopar heads Hooker Chassis headers 1 ¾ tested on 91 octane pump gas http://youtu.be/_AfyrlVkEdk    
Bryce Mulvey
Dr J's Performance
The Home of AIRWOLF Cylinder Heads
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: Bryce Mulvey]
#1300044
10/02/12 07:53 PM
10/02/12 07:53 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 614
ont,canada
mopartuner
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 614
ont,canada
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How do you think this motor would perform with a custom solid flat tappet cam?
410 pump gas solis flat tappet cam 10.95 so far
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: Bryce Mulvey]
#1300045
10/02/12 08:05 PM
10/02/12 08:05 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,532
off the grid
340B5
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,532
off the grid
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The big kicker is they are non offset heads and take all standard LA hardware Now you're talkin!!! That would be great for budget-minded racers who don't want to change everything at once.
Yeah, it's got a smallblock.
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: mshred]
#1300047
10/25/12 10:54 AM
10/25/12 10:54 AM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,128
sweden
sshemi
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,128
sweden
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Quote:
Anybody thinking of trying these out?
Trying to decide if these are worth an upgrade over my ported RHS heads
im in that situation also.
i think the weight savings witout any power loss might be worth it.
but i got some chassie upgrades to do first.
it makes me think twice because they are cast in china.
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: sshemi]
#1300048
10/25/12 10:56 AM
10/25/12 10:56 AM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,433
Toronto
mshred
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,433
Toronto
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Quote:
Quote:
Anybody thinking of trying these out?
Trying to decide if these are worth an upgrade over my ported RHS heads
im in that situation also.
i think the weight savings witout any power loss might be worth it.
but i got some chassie upgrades to do first.
it makes me think twice because they are cast in china.
He pm'ed me on another forum and told me they have a lifetime warranty against any casting flaws
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: OUTLAW MOPAR]
#1300050
11/22/12 06:52 PM
11/22/12 06:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,945
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,945
Weddington, N.C.
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I got to compare the airwolfs to my Shady Dell stage 2's. I have a question into Bryce about the components so I'll wait to hear back. The intake ports are larger than the Shadys and the 2.08 intake should definately help up top. Bryce does some interesting (read that as cool ) work at the bowl/runner transition that I won't go into...but I like it and understand how it works. But IMO unless you're planning a big (>255-ish) @.050 solid roller AND your combo is under ~3400 pounds with an auto the Shady 2's might work as well or better. Light car with a lot of gear will like these 220 intakes. My car is around 2900 w/d so I think these will be worth some useable Hp/tq up top 
Last edited by Streetwize; 11/22/12 06:54 PM.
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: Darryls-Demon]
#1300052
11/22/12 10:03 PM
11/22/12 10:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,945
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,945
Weddington, N.C.
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I do on a sub 10.5:1 combo, the real beauty of the SDSS 2's is the flow is still great for the high velocity port design. But a fair number of street compression mild gear moderate weight 408-416 combos might do better overall than with these bigger ports. The SDSS2's keep up fairly well up to about .400 lift
There's no doubt to me the airwolfs have more flow/hp potential.... but they may not be the best Et wise for milder heavier flat tappet combos as I described where average torque through the middle contributes more to the ET. The airwolfs have a very broad torque curve as evidenced on Steve D's dyno mule, but not every combo will ET best with a port that peaks torque at close to 5k...unless your also willing to gear and vert your combo accordingly
As I said I think Bryce is very clever and a highly talented head porter, there's no doubt in my mind.
Last edited by Streetwize; 11/22/12 10:23 PM.
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: MIKES_DUSTER]
#1300057
11/26/12 06:19 PM
11/26/12 06:19 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 793
Utah
topbrent
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 793
Utah
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Quote:
MIKES_DUSTER:
Are they cheaper then the eddys??
Less expensive than what Hughes charges for a set of CNC ported Edelbrock castings.
Hughes asks $2831.74 for their CNC offerings plus the price of a decent spring upgrade. http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/produ...mp;partid=27660
*
This is from the post over on "Moparts Hot Deals & New Products" that is currently running on the AirWolf heads:
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...rt=all&vc=1
Quote:
Quote:
How much are they!!???
Bryce Mulvey
AIRWOLF 220 Small Block Mopar
HYD roller spring complete $ 2200.00
Solid Roller Springs Complete Ti retainers $2600.00
Heads come with Manley race flow valves and Manley springs
STD Installation Height of 1.950
AIRWOLF 220 SBM
2.08 intake 1.60 exhaust 45 ° seats
2.48 CSA @ pinch( my prototype was 2.52 but it did not work out on the CNC production head)
Intake Flow numbers @ 28” test @ Reher Morrison
.100 72 cfm
.200 144 cfm
.300 219 cfm
.400 273 cfm
.500 301 cfm
.600 312 cfm
.700 316 cfm
.800 319 cfm
.900 321 cfm
1.00 326 cfm
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: Streetwize]
#1300059
11/27/12 05:18 PM
11/27/12 05:18 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,945
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,945
Weddington, N.C.
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Bryce confirmed the roller springs are 220/510 so I'm good to go. Look forward to firing the 414 back up with the new lungs.  Btw, I confirmed my 414 is really a 416, for some reason my Ohio 4" crank really measures 4.02" stroke  anybody else ever find this? I wrote it down on the build but thought I must have mis-read it. I also modded my (way too small) 1 5/8" x 3" headers to a 3 1/2" collector and a 3 1/2 to 3 X 8" flowmaster reducer to get a little more pipe volume, not ideal but hopefully a little better.
Last edited by Streetwize; 11/27/12 05:21 PM.
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: Streetwize]
#1300060
11/27/12 05:26 PM
11/27/12 05:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,266
Renton Washington
Triple Threat
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,266
Renton Washington
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There was already a ton of potential left in your old combo's, the poor mans 340 and the 416" Eddy combo. More tuning and racing, less changing parts 
-Dustin
67 Dart, 9 second, 392" G3 Hemi
68 Barracuda 340 F/SA
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: Triple Threat]
#1300061
11/27/12 05:34 PM
11/27/12 05:34 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,945
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,945
Weddington, N.C.
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@TripleThreat I know! Beat Me! Beat me!! I never even made a bonafide full throttle pass with the SDSS2's. I'm bad about getting bored and having to keep messing with it....if you notice all my upgrades happen during the fall and winter. I always sell my old stuff to people who put them to good use though do I don't feel too bad if I can horse trade some upgrades with little net out of pocket. Looking at Bryce's Chart again....ignore for a moment the Peak numbers and just look at the torque. Over 550 lb/ft from 4650 to 5650 and AT LEAST 500 lb/ft from 3950 to 6650, over that span the HP goes from 390 to 633, that's why I had to get them, same reason I went for the Chap Stage 6's on my 517 BB, I love that wall to wall powerband, to me that's what makes a stroker, to have a dead simple normally aspirated combo that has close to a boost induced powerband. Again not what I'd necessesarily run on a 3500 pound 10:1 3.54 geared 416 E-body T/A but for an 11.5:1 2900 pound 4.10 geared Rocky it ought to be a great fit.
Last edited by Streetwize; 11/28/12 11:10 AM.
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: Darryls-Demon]
#1300063
11/27/12 08:12 PM
11/27/12 08:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,945
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,945
Weddington, N.C.
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Are you talking a 10:1 408-416 street motor, 3000 stall and 3.91 gears? The airwolfs (airwolves?) would still work well but probably not as well as SDSS2's for that combo....remember the shadybrocks (can I coin that?  ) are extremely fine heads, but on a 10.1 motor they are more a 2200-6200 powerband, where as the AW220's are more a 3000-6800 head. Ex: The best overall intake for the 3400 pound 10:1 combo Imentioned would be an AG RPM, but that intake won't flow to the potential of the AWs. The AW's (as well as the IMM max port eddies) can fill a niche between standard ported eddies and the W5 Indybrocks where that extra 500 RPM above 6000 can be put to use on the right 408-416 combo. These could also work on a high strung low geared 340 but were talking 4200 stall or a stick and 4.30-4.57 gears in a Light car with a very carefully selected cam if it's going to see any street time. I LOVE those kinds of combos, but they're not for everybody. A lot of people still make the More is better mistake, that's all I was saying. For the combo you describe (assuming the same Cr/stall/gears/wt) the 4.125 crank and 430 cubes would probably work great with the AW's and the right cam.
Last edited by Streetwize; 11/27/12 09:01 PM.
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: Streetwize]
#1300066
11/28/12 11:20 AM
11/28/12 11:20 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,945
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,945
Weddington, N.C.
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Darryl That's the way I'd go, 4.07 x 4.125 is 429 cubes. I'd put a .600 ish lift ~252/256 @.050 Bullet SR with 10.5:1 on 108 in around 104 and a ~3500 stall/4500 flash 9.5 vert. I'd prefer a built low gear set 904 to a 727 with your gears but that's just me  the 727 would be worry free though. 1 7/8" E body TTI's and a pro systems 1000hp on a Victor 340 should still have awesome roll on torque and start pulling hard around 3300 and peak around 5800 and rev to 6300 or there abouts. The extra cubes make up for a little less compression and cam compared to the 408 but it'll be available sooner (where you want it. A quick footnote....the one reason I'm so big on the torque curve is that people usually (sometimes suprisingly) figure out that when you have a broad torque curve (which is roughly 85% of peak torque) spanning over 1/2 your total powerband, you quickly find out that you have such a wide sweet spot that you don't have to worry so much about getting the converter exactly right (you can go a little tighter) or hitting the shift points just right, it just makes the 'stroker experience' a lot more fun to drive, which means you'll want to drive the car more 
Last edited by Streetwize; 11/28/12 11:28 AM.
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: Darryls-Demon]
#1300068
11/28/12 09:44 PM
11/28/12 09:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,945
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,945
Weddington, N.C.
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Yeah, I do on pretty much any non boosted/nitrous mopar combo unless I'm trying to kill some torque through the middle or they are exhaust restricted. The only carburetted street Motors I've ever worked on that seem to run better on wider spreads and Late ICLs are Bb Buicks, Bb chevys and many small block fords. Some small tire A body big block cars back in the day actually with a 110-112 split because they wouldn't hook on the shift recovery. Buicks seem to run best really wide like 114, I think it must have something more to do with the fuel delivery/distribution through the manifold getting upset with large overlaps. When the cubes get Big ( like over 580) you pretty much have to go wider since the running ramps have to be big enough to get the big motors to RPM at all.
Last edited by Streetwize; 11/28/12 09:53 PM.
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: Streetwize]
#1300069
11/28/12 09:57 PM
11/28/12 09:57 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,300
Northern Indiana
Dunnuck Racing
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,300
Northern Indiana
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Quote:
Yeah, I do on pretty much any non boosted/nitrous mopar combo unless I'm trying to kill some torque through the middle or they are exhaust restricted. The only street Motors I've ever worked on that seem to run better on wider spreads and Late ICLs are Buicks and many small block fords. Some small tire A body big block cars back in the day actually with a 110-112 split because they wouldn't hook on the shift recovery.
My 421 with ported Edelbrock heads really likes 106 lsa with similar duration flat tappet cams.
Out of 10 cams I tested,106 to 108 worked best. The one in it now is 264/268 @.050 106 lsa and made 578 tq and 620 hp. Nice fat tq curve.
Keith
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: Streetwize]
#1300072
11/28/12 11:16 PM
11/28/12 11:16 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,300
Northern Indiana
Dunnuck Racing
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,300
Northern Indiana
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Quote:
No not at all, by restricted exhaust I mean where the benefits of overlap are negated by backpressure like from manifolds or tiny headers. Combos like that need wider spreads, later ICL's and the intake tract need s to pretty much 'fend for itself'
For the 430 the TTI's and a nice 3.5 to 3 dual system would be perfect, x pipe would be a plus but not a necessity IMO.
This is where I have to disagree Wizened.
Even in engines with restrictions in the exhaust,I see benefits with tighter lsa. I usually find that an engine size favors a certain lsa regardless unless compression ratios go way up. There are minor exceptions,but more often than not this is the case.
Even my stock small block I'm testing favors a narrow lsa,with its small exhaust ports and headers.
Keith
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: Dunnuck Racing]
#1300073
11/28/12 11:41 PM
11/28/12 11:41 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,945
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,945
Weddington, N.C.
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Keith, I know there is some 'sweet spot' in the powerband that favors that tight separation, I'm wondering have you done testing of larger cube motors with small (stock or near stock) exhausts? I've almost always seen that the overall powerband is broader ( though maybe not in terms of absolute 'peak" torque) with a wider spread. A good example comes to mind with AndyF's 470 motor running stock ehaust manifolds, of all the cams he tested the old .single pattern MP528 with a 112 split worked best. The tight 'sweet spot' of torque you speak of logically has to cost you some horsepower ( literally the motor's ability to gain rpm past the VE peak) on the top of the range, and of course (as Andy also found out) the induction side is impacted as well. Sidebar: WAY too O/T to get into here but the VE curve in terms of keeping the crank from slowing (rpm/sec) after peak torque helps keep the induction charging, a peakier curve means the crank is slowing at a faster rate after the peak, not an issue with Good heads but when they're not.... We need to talk over a few Barley pops some time ;-) I know a number of Stock eliminator and even circle track combos have a very narrow "sweet spot" and they do their best to optimize the car dynamics around it and a degree or 2 of cam timing the wrong way really screws things up to where it won't fall out of a tree. I agree with you in terms of peak that a narrow spread can usually peak higher SOMEWHERE in the powerband, I've just not seen very many that can hold a better average curve (VE) typically falls quicker after the peak. It's all what your after and what class limitation (ex: FAST) you have to contend with. All the motor combos and even porting techniques play a big role unmaking a combo work....or not. Also overall drivability and especially weight and gearing can come into play, if your running a 416 with stock exhausts and an OD trans with a 2.94 final drive I'm not sure I'd go 108 centers even if the torque peak was slightly higher for need of a smoother more tractible low RPM roll on. Also individual intake/exhaust duration specs can have a near equal effect on effective overlap than the physical spread itself. I've worked on and consulted on a lot of 'stealthy' combos over the years, nothing surprises me much anymore....except Buicks Sorry to get so O/T !!! 
Last edited by Streetwize; 11/29/12 12:01 AM.
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: Streetwize]
#1300074
11/29/12 12:28 AM
11/29/12 12:28 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,300
Northern Indiana
Dunnuck Racing
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,300
Northern Indiana
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Wize , Sometimes it benefits us to look at things in different ways. We must be skinning the cat differently. I prefer to keep the narrow lobe centers and if necessary ,change the intake or exhaust duration slightly to make up for deficiency where necessary. I personally don't buy in to the theory of tighter centers making an engine peakier because I have never seen it happen. Certain other engine designs are exceptions as you noted. It would be nice to sit down with you over a few golden sodas someday. And since we are off topic,I have to wonder how many different cams Andyf tried and what they were as Ive never seen much said about them. Anyway,carry in and have fun with your new heads!  Keith
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: Dunnuck Racing]
#1300075
11/29/12 02:40 PM
11/29/12 02:40 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,752
detroit area
moderncylinder
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detroit area
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on a side note,, a guy just came in with a set of pro comp small blk mopar heads,, look exactly like the airwolf,, same hardware,, same port difference in the port from an edelbrock,, im thinking the airwolf is just a generic cnc from china,,
this guy paid 1425 for the ported, assembled,, to his door from minnesota
im opening up the chambers,, as cast 65 cc's,, and doing a valve job
jeff
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: moderncylinder]
#1300076
11/29/12 05:07 PM
11/29/12 05:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,809
Portage,michigan
B3422W5
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
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Portage,michigan
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Jeff
So is what you are saying is that these airwolf heads are the same exact same head as what your customer brought in to your shop?
Because the airwolfs seem to be roughly 1000 more expensive.
Also did those pro comps have any helicoiling done to help with threads hanging on to rocker gear?
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight
418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam, footbrake street/strip car
1.41 best 60 foot
6.54 @ 105.20
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: B3422W5]
#1300078
11/29/12 05:50 PM
11/29/12 05:50 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,752
detroit area
moderncylinder
top fuel
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top fuel
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detroit area
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i checked a int port and it was only 195 cc's,, im sure the airwolf is bryce's own program.....
they have heli coils in the exh face and rocker bolts
im amazed how cheap these things are for what they are,,, a head to make 600 hp with chamber porting and a better valve job he will have 1750 reassembling them himself,,, cheap for what it is
fishy, what do you mean? this cnc work on these heads looks nice,, so initially i thought bryce may "tune up" a few areas, do a valve job and sell them,, but he must have a larger port to get to 225 cc's
and whats my problem with best? i dont have anything? im just an honest guy and call bs when i see it,,, isnt the case here,,
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: moderncylinder]
#1300079
11/29/12 06:03 PM
11/29/12 06:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,809
Portage,michigan
B3422W5
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Jeff Thanks for the info. Curious if that procomp head is the "revised water jacket" casting? I kinda figured a 225 cc head like his airwolf would make a sorted out 32-3300 pound 904 car run 9.90-10.0 without nasty unstreetable ramps pretty cheaply. Darn nice sounding alternative
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight
418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam, footbrake street/strip car
1.41 best 60 foot
6.54 @ 105.20
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: moderncylinder]
#1300083
11/29/12 07:00 PM
11/29/12 07:00 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,433
Toronto
mshred
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master
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,433
Toronto
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Quote:
on a side note,, a guy just came in with a set of pro comp small blk mopar heads,, look exactly like the airwolf,, same hardware,, same port difference in the port from an edelbrock,, im thinking the airwolf is just a generic cnc from china,,
this guy paid 1425 for the ported, assembled,, to his door from minnesota
im opening up the chambers,, as cast 65 cc's,, and doing a valve job
jeff
Jeff, do you know where he got the blank heads from? Also, would you care to share your ported numbers on these heads (im assuming you are going to cnc them as well)...Be interesting to see what the 195cc can do as well, and also what you think of the casting quality
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: moderncylinder]
#1300087
11/29/12 09:10 PM
11/29/12 09:10 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,433
Toronto
mshred
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Quote:
all im doing is the chambers and a valve job......
he got the castings from a guy in minnesota,,, castings are 441.00 each
assembled heads 550 each
ported heads bare 642 each
assembled ported heads 751.50 each
So did he get them assembled from the guy in minnesota for 1425 or he bought them bare and loaded them with his own stuff? Would be interesting to see what the quality of the "assembled" parts on the heads are like
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: 70AARcuda]
#1300088
11/29/12 09:11 PM
11/29/12 09:11 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,433
Toronto
mshred
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master
Joined: Apr 2009
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Toronto
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Quote:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SMALL-BLOCK-CHRY...=item43ae1e81d5
these guys sell them at a lower price bare...also have completed and cnc head in package deal...
the cheaper guy charges for shipping the other guy has free shipping..so it is almost a wash on the price.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/318-340-360-CHRY...=item43b3b2da96
and this link give you the all import top end..LOL
Only one with posted flow numbers is the whole import package lol....Seem close to eddy flow numbers even hand ported?
For $800 bucks for the pair bare, that leaves how much left to assemble them PROPERLY? Just thinking out loud of whether they really are worth it over the edelbrocks by the time you install good hardware on them....Thats of course if the parts they come with are no good
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: mshred]
#1300089
11/29/12 09:15 PM
11/29/12 09:15 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,752
detroit area
moderncylinder
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detroit area
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he bought them assembled,,, the parts are fine,,, nothing looks cheap......
the valve job as far as airflow goes looks bad,,, so im "fixing" it,, the edelbrock head likes a wide top angle,, this head has no top angle,, so im thinking they will pick up....maybe ill flow them after im done to show what they do
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: 70AARcuda]
#1300090
11/29/12 09:20 PM
11/29/12 09:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,945
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
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Weddington, N.C.
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Springs, locks and valves for an additional $109.00 I know nobody really wants to sell them bare so that price is usually jacked up a bit but still....I doubt they are Manley or Ferreas. Bryce's provides nice high quality Manley valvetrain with the Airwolfs. I believe he buys them raw and puts in his own hardened seats and guides so likely not apples to apples even if they are the same castings. You certainly don't want to skimp where it counts IMO. Edelbrock is selling lower grade heads now and they cut the costs in the quality of the seats and finish machining. Casting quality of my pair of airwolfs looks to me to be on par with the eddies
Last edited by Streetwize; 11/29/12 09:40 PM.
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: moderncylinder]
#1300091
11/29/12 09:23 PM
11/29/12 09:23 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,433
Toronto
mshred
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master
Joined: Apr 2009
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Toronto
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Quote:
he bought them assembled,,, the parts are fine,,, nothing looks cheap......
the valve job as far as airflow goes looks bad,,, so im "fixing" it,, the edelbrock head likes a wide top angle,, this head has no top angle,, so im thinking they will pick up....maybe ill flow them after im done to show what they do
A flow test would be great to be honest
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: Streetwize]
#1300092
11/29/12 09:25 PM
11/29/12 09:25 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,433
Toronto
mshred
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master
Joined: Apr 2009
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Toronto
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Quote:
Springs, locks and valves for an additional $109.00
Bryce's provides nice high quality Manley valvetrain with the Airwolfs.
Casting quality of my pair of airwolfs looks to me to be on par with the eddies
I know, its a little funny I agree that its not much more fully assembled...I wonder what kind of spring and valve they are using.
Bryce's is kinda the same deal, atleast on his website anyways...2,000 bare, or 2,200 fully assembled...unless im reading it wrong on there somewhere
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: mshred]
#1300093
11/29/12 09:41 PM
11/29/12 09:41 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,809
Portage,michigan
B3422W5
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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What hasn't been figured out is if these procomp heads have the "water passages modified" and are where Bryce starts running his program from
Or if the heads we are talking about here are " standard water" like an Eddie knockoff.
Think they must all be cast the same?
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight
418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam, footbrake street/strip car
1.41 best 60 foot
6.54 @ 105.20
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: B3422W5]
#1300094
11/29/12 10:08 PM
11/29/12 10:08 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,433
Toronto
mshred
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master
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,433
Toronto
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Quote:
What hasn't been figured out is if these procomp heads have the "water passages modified" and are where Bryce starts running his program from
Or if the heads we are talking about here are " standard water" like an Eddie knockoff.
Think they must all be cast the same?
Didn't Jeff mention a few posts ago that the port floors are lower then the eddies? If they are, then I think they are cast with the moved water ports it would seem...just guessing though
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: moderncylinder]
#1300097
11/30/12 07:10 PM
11/30/12 07:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,945
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
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Weddington, N.C.
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First 'snag' Torqued them down and my pushrods are just a hair too long  The cups are just bottoming in the back sides of the rocker with no lash. brand new Manton 11/32nds too. Wish I could find that old set of MP rocker shaft shims, anybody got a set??
Last edited by Streetwize; 11/30/12 07:11 PM.
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: Streetwize]
#1300100
12/01/12 12:00 AM
12/01/12 12:00 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,179
Atco NJ
DJVCuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,179
Atco NJ
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Quote:
First 'snag'
Torqued them down and my pushrods are just a hair too long
The cups are just bottoming in the back sides of the rocker with no lash. brand new Manton 11/32nds too. Wish I could find that old set of MP rocker shaft shims, anybody got a set??
PM me your addy....
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: DJVCuda]
#1300101
12/01/12 10:32 AM
12/01/12 10:32 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,945
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
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Weddington, N.C.
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PM sent! Thanks! The pushrods are just a hair too long with the new heads, not sure why but it is what it is. The shims should give me just enough to give me lash adjustment on the rockers.
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: Streetwize]
#1300102
12/01/12 11:22 AM
12/01/12 11:22 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,809
Portage,michigan
B3422W5
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Wize..
what kind of rocker gear are you running?
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight
418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam, footbrake street/strip car
1.41 best 60 foot
6.54 @ 105.20
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: B3422W5]
#1300103
12/01/12 12:02 PM
12/01/12 12:02 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,945
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,945
Weddington, N.C.
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Comp Magnum stainless only 1.5:1's, I'd like to run 1.6's on the intakes to get my lift up over .600 but thet are what I have. here's a shot of them on the Eddie's
Last edited by Streetwize; 12/01/12 12:09 PM.
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: Streetwize]
#1300104
12/01/12 01:57 PM
12/01/12 01:57 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,809
Portage,michigan
B3422W5
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
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Portage,michigan
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Quote:
Comp Magnum stainless only 1.5:1's, I'd like to run 1.6's on the intakes to get my lift up over .600 but thet are what I have.
here's a shot of them on the Eddie's
Those dont look too bad at all, have to fool around much to attain good geometry?
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight
418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam, footbrake street/strip car
1.41 best 60 foot
6.54 @ 105.20
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: B3422W5]
#1300105
12/01/12 03:09 PM
12/01/12 03:09 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,945
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
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Weddington, N.C.
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The wipe was dead nuts....but of course these are my Old heads. I think an .040 shim will cure the new ones, that should give me about .026 allowance for lash or there abouts (I run .016/.018)
These are 1.55" OD springs, Bryce said he had to run lash caps (which he gave me) to clear the Aluminum 1.6:1 rockers he ran on Stevie D's 408 mule. Looks like mine clear fine and adding a lash cap would 'go the wrong way' for my app.
Last edited by Streetwize; 12/01/12 03:27 PM.
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: goldmember]
#1300111
12/01/12 09:12 PM
12/01/12 09:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,945
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
master
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master
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Weddington, N.C.
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.030", I don't think it's worth it to? Someone tell me what's the big deal with a Shim? I've turned motors 8 grand with them, as much stuff that moves around the base of the shaft is the least of my worries. The shaft doesnt know the base of the pedestal is steel and not cast aluminum. Small blocks have those puny 5/16 shaft bolts, at least I have the stout Hughes hold downs. It's not like I'm running a Comp eliminator motor here Bad geometry and binding is what breaks valvetrain parts from my experience.
Last edited by Streetwize; 12/04/12 01:46 PM.
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: Streetwize]
#1300112
12/01/12 09:21 PM
12/01/12 09:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,809
Portage,michigan
B3422W5
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Portage,michigan
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Previous poster makes good sense, IMO. Cost is same to have them cut .030 or two feet. I guess in the whole scheme of a performance build, I would much rather eliminate having to shim/ band aid anything, especially if I could do it for likely under a 100 bucks at a competent machine shop I would think
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight
418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam, footbrake street/strip car
1.41 best 60 foot
6.54 @ 105.20
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: B3422W5]
#1300113
12/01/12 09:49 PM
12/01/12 09:49 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,945
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,945
Weddington, N.C.
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Ok, ok, you guys win I'll call Terry on Monday. BTW, here's the exhaust port...it's actually a couple CFM LESS than the SDSS2's
Last edited by Streetwize; 12/02/12 12:10 PM.
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: Streetwize]
#1300114
12/02/12 12:10 PM
12/02/12 12:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,945
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
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Weddington, N.C.
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close up of the Chamber and side by side "published flow numbers vs the very good (and probably more efficient (CFM per sq/in of port section) SDSS2's
SDSS ported Flow #'s --AirWolf 220's
LIFT--IN/EX --LIFT-IN/EX
.100"--72.6/NA --.100"--72/69
.200"--146.9/110.8 --.200" --144/110
.300"--196.3/150.1 --.300"-- 219/146
.400"--245.8/180.2 --.400"-- 273/174
.500"--268.6/203.4 --.500" --301/201
.600"--276.6/218.6 --.600" --312/216
.700"--286.6/223.8 --.700"-- 316/225
Last edited by Streetwize; 12/02/12 12:41 PM.
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: toddd]
#1300117
12/02/12 01:34 PM
12/02/12 01:34 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,945
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
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master
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Weddington, N.C.
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Todd Lifters are Morels I'm comparing the SDSS stage 2's to the Airwolfs because that is what I had vs what I'm moving to, that's all Obviously the full on SDSS4's would be more 'Apples to Apples' but many of of on Moparts already have Ryan's stage 2's and they are awesome heads and a Huge upgrade from OOTB Edelbrocks
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: justinp61]
#1300119
12/02/12 01:57 PM
12/02/12 01:57 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,945
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
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Weddington, N.C.
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That is so very true Justin, but what also is true (from my experience of 30+ years of building strokers) is past a certain cylinder volume to port cross section, the VE will start to drop rapidly if there is insufficient runner volume to keep the (bigger stroker) hole filled. Even with equal or near equal flowbench numbers. and Especially with a carb you have to have adequate room to get both the air and the fuel volume past the intake valve to squeeze and burn it. Fuel (even in suspension) is a solid and still consumes Volume in the port, and (normally aspirated and for a given cross section and overall runner length/port volume) past a certain point you can only get so much of both in only so fast. I bought the AW's to try them because the VE ( broad torque especially beyond the torque peak) more or less demonstrates this point. The other funny thing about flow benches is they measure cubic feet per minute. On a running 8 cylinder engine any intake valve is closed for nearly 2/3'd of that minute, and for most the other roughly 20 seconds it is only partially open.
Last edited by Streetwize; 12/02/12 02:45 PM.
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: Bryce Mulvey]
#1300120
12/02/12 05:03 PM
12/02/12 05:03 PM
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2
70408cuda
member
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member
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2
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Subject Air Wolf 220 Heads Doubts… They are cut for 1.625” springs. How does that work? 1.500” prings on Edelbrock heads and these being a Chinese knowck off of the Eddie heads. 1.The rockers would have to have some maximum notch cuttings to clear a spring of that size 2.Will the rockers be strong enough to handle spring pressures that 1.625” springs generate after all that cutting? 3.Air Wolf did did claim “standard LA hardware” 4. The +.100” retainers they use presents even more rocker arm clearance problems. When they claim standard hardware does that mean standard T+D or Crane type stuff? 
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: 70408cuda]
#1300121
12/02/12 05:11 PM
12/02/12 05:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,448
Phoenix, AZ
MoparBilly
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,448
Phoenix, AZ
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Ben,
Welcome to moparts...due diligence will be done, patience.
"Livin' in a powder keg and givin' off sparks"
4 Street cars, 5 Race engines
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: Abodyjohn88]
#1300124
12/02/12 07:25 PM
12/02/12 07:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,945
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
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master
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Weddington, N.C.
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Narrowest point at the inch with my calipers is ~1.030 but the height seems to open up (floor and roof) beyond the 2.30" port entry, kind of like "offsetting" so even if the minimum cross section is less than 2.48", I doubt it's very much less at all. As the man said, pictures can't tell you what your eyes and fingers can. Something Bryce did for rocker clearance is he used lash caps and when I add them now my pushrods needs to be ~.055-.060 shorter. The Comps do clear the springs but it ain't by much and the caps help increase it. As for the bigger springs, I'm not sure except to think that by going to a shorter/wider spring allows more room to port the roof, (using a noticably shallow spring plunge cut) to give you a comparable seat/open pressure. Seemed like a great app for a beehive I'm hoping Bryce will home back in, maybe somebody can ping him on YB?
Last edited by Streetwize; 12/02/12 07:30 PM.
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: Streetwize]
#1300125
12/03/12 12:47 PM
12/03/12 12:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,945
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,945
Weddington, N.C.
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I called Manton this morning to order new Pushrods .060" shorter. It was actually less $$$ when you consider shipping the old ones back & forth. I could have found a local machine shop but Manton actually replaces the Cups because they are heat damaged when they replace them. Have I been on another planet because I wasn't aware that Terry Manton passed away last February RIP, my friend, One HECK OF A NICE GUY!! 
Last edited by Streetwize; 12/03/12 12:49 PM.
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: Streetwize]
#1300128
12/20/12 10:45 AM
12/20/12 10:45 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,945
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,945
Weddington, N.C.
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BTW, I opened up the front Head gasket deck passages (as I mentioned in the other thread Here:) https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...e=0#Post7509964More flow means more power...but it also means more heat, and I never really cared for Ma's OEM thought process of routing all the cooling water through the block first and then to the heads. People may debate this HG mod but to me it makes a lot of sense, especially with aluminum heads to get the cooler water to the heads as well as the block straight of the pump discharge. The trade off on the street is it takes longer for the motor to heat up, but on a stroker you're also building power (and with it heat) sooner, I don't know if I'd do it in a Minnesota street daily driver but down here in a NC bracket car it works fine. I'm debating whether to mod my Victor to allow for the rear cooling lines, the pass side is a real PITA to mill flat.
Last edited by Streetwize; 12/20/12 10:49 AM.
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: Bryce Mulvey]
#1300136
12/31/12 02:23 PM
12/31/12 02:23 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,300
Northern Indiana
Dunnuck Racing
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,300
Northern Indiana
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Quote:
Quote:
I picked it up a couple weeks ago. When you get it,compare it to the 421 inch Chevy build with Air Wolf 220 heads. Interesting
Keith
Its all about the hp/cube
408 mopar 1.55 @ 408 if it was a 421 652hp
My point,exactly! I would like to see the Mopar heads tested on a 4.125 bore. I think the small block Mopar's "normal" bore sizes are a big hindrance to making power.
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: Triple Threat]
#1300138
01/01/13 03:56 PM
01/01/13 03:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,945
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
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Weddington, N.C.
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Keith, But by that reasoning, wouldn't a SB Chevy or Windsor Ford be at a HP DISADVANTAGE because neither of those motors have the valve centerlines at the bore centerline like the mopar does? Also worth noting that Chevy LS heads flow a Ton of air despite bores ranging from 3.9 to 4.06
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: Streetwize]
#1300140
01/01/13 06:18 PM
01/01/13 06:18 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,300
Northern Indiana
Dunnuck Racing
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,300
Northern Indiana
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Quote:
Keith,
But by that reasoning, wouldn't a SB Chevy or Windsor Ford be at a HP DISADVANTAGE because neither of those motors have the valve centerlines at the bore centerline like the mopar does?
They DO have a disadvantage in that respect,but they have the advantage on port size and shape. Bryces Chevy build had better flowing heads and bigger bores. That is why I would like to see similar bore sizes tested between the two.
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: Dunnuck Racing]
#1300141
01/01/13 07:29 PM
01/01/13 07:29 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 9,366
Lehigh Acres, Florida
rickstershemi
master
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 9,366
Lehigh Acres, Florida
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Quote:
Quote:
Keith,
But by that reasoning, wouldn't a SB Chevy or Windsor Ford be at a HP DISADVANTAGE because neither of those motors have the valve centerlines at the bore centerline like the mopar does?
They DO have a disadvantage in that respect,but they have the advantage on port size and shape. Bryces Chevy build had better flowing heads and bigger bores. That is why I would like to see similar bore sizes tested between the two.
Is someone contemplating a build for Cut's small-block race that's being yacked about over on the bullit.....??????
Rickster
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: rickstershemi]
#1300142
01/02/13 09:26 AM
01/02/13 09:26 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,945
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
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Weddington, N.C.
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Vic, Interestingly, Bryce's published flow numbers for the Mopar 220's was on a 4.125 bore so I expect the actual flow in the 4.03 bore 633 hp dyno 408 would have been a bit less than the advertised numbers. On the LS I guess I forgot about the 427" Z06 motor....my bad but that one is kind of a special case that is few in number and only resides in Vette's. does Dart or someone make a 4.125" bore aluminum aftermarket block? I know there are a few iron ones. I have an 06 Trailblazer SS with the LS2 I may look at upgrading someday. Right now it's my tow vehicle
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: DJVCuda]
#1300145
01/02/13 03:06 PM
01/02/13 03:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,945
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
master
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,945
Weddington, N.C.
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Yes, that's no doubt very true.
But over 30+ years now I can pretty much look at a port or compare 2 ports side by side and fairly accurately predict the outcomes. I can pretty much do it blindfolded by touch and tell what kind of power the head will make.
The interesting thing is I think I learned more about Mopar heads from going back and forth to them after working with several other makes and wedge layouts.
Last edited by Streetwize; 01/02/13 06:08 PM.
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Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
[Re: Streetwize]
#1300147
01/03/13 06:30 AM
01/03/13 06:30 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,179
Atco NJ
DJVCuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,179
Atco NJ
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Quote:
Yes, that's no doubt very true.
But over 30+ years now I can pretty much look at a port or compare 2 ports side by side and fairly accurately predict the outcomes. I can pretty much do it blindfolded by touch and tell what kind of power the head will make.
The interesting thing is I think I learned more about Mopar heads from going back and forth to them after working with several other makes and wedge layouts.
How true that is. The machinist I worked with showed me a lot of that. He showed a few obvious differences a novice would pass right over such as dog boning in the intake runners and such. Very interesting stuff.
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