Moparts
airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar
Posted By: fishy340
airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 09/09/12 03:06 AM
to these men..here u go head to yellowbullet.com scroll down to naturaly aspirated-chris uratcko...click on CYLINDER HEAD SHOW AND TELl...page 98 scroll down and wahlah! thank these dudes for makin efforts..and also on rehers bench there at 323cfm...just the begining
thanks to all involved.
Posted By: pittsburghracer
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 09/09/12 03:25 AM
Very nice.
I said it before and I will say it again. These are great days for those of us racing MOPARS. Here's a link to the above post.
http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=129971&page=98
Posted By: 1Fast340
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 09/11/12 11:17 PM
Great news for sure!
Posted By: skrews
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 09/12/12 01:27 AM
Quick somebody run out and buy a set. Let us know if they're any good or not.
Posted By: Guitar Jones
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 09/12/12 01:50 AM
Quote:
Quick somebody run out and buy a set. Let us know if they're any good or not.
That's a great idea, why don't you do it? I have way too much invested in my W5's to even consider changing anything at this time.
Posted By: pittsburghracer
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 09/12/12 02:16 AM
I just bought a set of 2.08 valves for an Edelbrock head to see exactly how far I can push one and get it to flow but that does sound like a real nice Winter project.
Posted By: topbrent
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 09/12/12 10:54 AM
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 09/13/12 12:23 AM
Bigger flow is kinda way upstairs 'lift wise', no? At .400- .550 maybe not dramatically better than well ported eddies. 323 is a great advertised number but if you're gonna run that kind of lift aren't there better suited heads?
Posted By: sshemi
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 09/13/12 09:13 AM
I think the price on these is very important.
Posted By: topbrent
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 09/13/12 09:29 AM
Here is the full flow chart from the post on yellowbullet. Looks pretty darn good.
Curious to see where the price point ends up on these.
Quote:
DR J's Performance:
AIRWOLF 220 SBM
2.08 intake 1.60 exhaust 45 ° seats
2.52 CSA @ pinch
Intake Flow numbers @ 28” test @ Reher Morrison
.100 72 cfm
.200 144 cfm
.300 219 cfm
.400 273 cfm
.500 301 cfm
.600 312 cfm
.700 316 cfm
.800 319 cfm
.900 321 cfm
1.00 326 cfm
Posted By: DemonDust
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 09/13/12 09:45 AM
If these come out at a good price I can see Rods stroker cranks flying out the door. They say things happen in 3s. So we have Rods cranks, these heads, and what do you think will be the topper for the SB world?
Posted By: skrews
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 09/13/12 10:59 AM
Quote:
If these come out at a good price I can see Rods stroker cranks flying out the door. They say things happen in 3s. So we have Rods cranks, these heads, and what do you think will be the topper for the SB world?
Now we need an AFORDABLE siamese 4.125 bore block with 4 bolt splayed steel caps.
Posted By: RAMM
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 09/13/12 12:02 PM
Quote:
Bigger flow is kinda way upstairs 'lift wise', no? At .400- .550 maybe not dramatically better than well ported eddies. 323 is a great advertised number but if you're gonna run that kind of lift aren't there better suited heads?
I used to think like this also. I don't think the idea of using the flow at that lift is important at all. It shows that the port does not stall and is stable. That IS important. J.Rob
Posted By: pittsburghracer
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 09/13/12 12:49 PM
It says in that post its an imported casting so that should hold the price down some.
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 09/13/12 02:57 PM
was 323 @ .700 now 316 @ .700 and now publishing @.900 lift
RAMM, I agree and understand port stall but for the majority of people (running something like a CompXE 284 at ~.525 of flat tap lift) it's not much better "real world" than a set of ported Eddies. With flat tappets the flow at peak really means less (it's more comparable to a roller measured .050 or .100 less than the FT peak since there's no real 'effective duration" at the peak of a flattie). Like you, I'm sure I always compare/measure/calc the % gain from the previous lift point rather than just look at the peak numbers at face value.
Overall I was more impressed with Brian @ IMM's 305 cfm Eddies that he ran the pushrod tubes through. I think they were even better through the middle (where it does the most good) than these. BTW....I'm also impressed with the work you guys up North of the border are doing too.
Mid lifts (.200-.500) still look good but not Amazing, my point on the high lifts is anyone running a .700+ lift cam is going to want a bigger/better/offset rocker intake head to start with
Posted By: RAMM
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 09/13/12 04:14 PM
Oh I totally agree that if you plan to run huge lifts or large cubic inches then yes a standard port window head/no-offset rocker is NOT worth it. That's why I would bet these are aimed at the 4" and larger stroke STREET crowd 'cuz I see no place for them on anything serious.
As for low lift flow numbers--I don't want great flow rates at anything under .400"--even street stuff. I have done some testing with high low lift flow (30* seats) and it sucked--even on a street engine.
For example I was degreeing the cam on my 416 yesterday and measured that the intake valve was open more than .225" with the piston going the WRONG way. You can imagine what happens when you have great low lift flow numbers in that scenario. With all that being said--thanks for the compliment, but I still think it will be a powerful head for 95% of the people who buy them and stick them on 400+ cube small blocks that won't see much over 6000rpm. I do think the chamber is ugly however-but looks aren't everything. J.Rob
p.s. I do think we're trying to say the same thing--It boils down to choosing the best parts for the application. Question is-What application suits these heads best?
Posted By: joshking440
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 09/13/12 04:27 PM
With all the other limiting factors of a Mopar... ie bore space and original layouts that most products follow Im just happy to see another manufacturer giving us a choice!
Josh
Posted By: Triple Threat
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 09/13/12 04:33 PM
I think it will be a good in between head. Possibly an upgrade for someone who already has good rockers, intake and headers for the standard SBM layout but wants a little more giddy up.
I have ported eddies currently that flow
280@.600, granted there should be some more on the table with these, but instead of sending them back for more porting, these new heads might be a better bargain. All depends on where the price point ends up.
We all know what a CNC'd Indy top end costs. If they can price them significantly less than that I think they will sell well.
Posted By: Triple Threat
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 09/13/12 05:13 PM
http://www.j-performance.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=50Here is the comparable SBC head they produce, that should give you some idea on pricing I think.
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 09/13/12 06:53 PM
Ramm, i'll bet you're looking at a pretty big cam to be at .225 of lift BTDC. Yes when you go to 'real race/mad lift and duration numbers you definately want to kill the lower lifts and 'steepen' flow window to favor the top.
What I'm wondering ( as controversial as it sounds) is why can't we adopt the LS architecture? There are already old school SBC's and even Fords that have built LS frankensteins already. Make a sbm casting that incorporates the LS ports and make a new Cam, intake and headers?
Posted By: pittsburghracer
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 09/13/12 08:26 PM
Posted By: topbrent
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 09/13/12 09:26 PM
Quote:
StreetWize:
What I'm wondering ( as controversial as it sounds) is why can't we adopt the LS architecture? There are already old school SBC's and even Fords that have built LS frankensteins already. Make a sbm casting that incorporates the LS ports and make a new Cam, intake and headers?
Adapting the LS head to a SBM would be awesome. However, that is a lot of effort just to preserve the motormount location, distributor, oil pan and bellhousing pattern IMHO. If adopting the LS head platform is the idea, you would be better served to just go all the way and install the LS shortblock as well. The factory iron 6.0 blocks can handle over 1000+hp without hesitation. Stronger inherent design.
Posted By: justinp61
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 09/13/12 09:33 PM
It's great to see another SBM head on the market and may be a good alternative to the Edelbrocks. I don't see people with Edelbrocks jumping on these though. Mine flowed 293 with a 2.02 valve on Curtis Boggs's bench and now have a 2.055 intake. My next step will be Indys or gen 3 Hemi.
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 09/13/12 09:35 PM
Well that and the Eddie Victor is supposed to be coming out soon too
Posted By: Bryce Mulvey
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 10/03/12 12:29 AM
FYI the 408 dyno test with airwolf 220 heads got moved to Moparts Hot Deals & New Products. Nicely done MR.ModeratorJust tested the New AIRWOLF 220 Small block Mopar heads. The heads work great. The big kicker is they are non offset heads and take all standard LA hardware
408 Mopar 633hp 562 ft lbs with New AIRWOLF 220 Small Block Mopar heads
4.030 bore X 4 inch stroke
Diamond Pistons 1/16 1/16 3/16 rings Flat top (11.5 to 1compression)
6.123 h beam rod
Crane solid roller 260/266 108 lsa 104 ICL .672 lift with 1.6 rockers
Dr J’s Ported Super Victor
Holley Ultra hp 950
NEW AIRWOLF 220 Small Block Mopar heads
Hooker Chassis headers 1 ¾
tested on 91 octane pump gas
http://youtu.be/_AfyrlVkEdk 
Posted By: mopartuner
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 10/03/12 12:53 AM
How do you think this motor would perform with a custom solid flat tappet cam?
Posted By: 340B5
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 10/03/12 01:05 AM
The big kicker is they are non offset heads and take all standard LA hardware
Now you're talkin!!! That would be great for budget-minded racers who don't want to change everything at once.
Posted By: mshred
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 10/25/12 03:11 PM
Anybody thinking of trying these out?
Trying to decide if these are worth an upgrade over my ported RHS heads
Posted By: sshemi
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 10/25/12 03:54 PM
Quote:
Anybody thinking of trying these out?
Trying to decide if these are worth an upgrade over my ported RHS heads
im in that situation also.
i think the weight savings witout any power loss might be worth it.
but i got some chassie upgrades to do first.
it makes me think twice because they are cast in china.
Posted By: mshred
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 10/25/12 03:56 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Anybody thinking of trying these out?
Trying to decide if these are worth an upgrade over my ported RHS heads
im in that situation also.
i think the weight savings witout any power loss might be worth it.
but i got some chassie upgrades to do first.
it makes me think twice because they are cast in china.
He pm'ed me on another forum and told me they have a lifetime warranty against any casting flaws
Posted By: OUTLAW MOPAR
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 11/22/12 10:32 PM
called bryce and ordered these heads. Going on my 74 traildusters 408, nv3500 5 speed set up.
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 11/22/12 11:52 PM
I got to compare the airwolfs to my Shady Dell stage 2's. I have a question into Bryce about the components so I'll wait to hear back.
The intake ports are larger than the Shadys and the 2.08 intake should definately help up top. Bryce does some interesting (read that as cool ) work at the bowl/runner transition that I won't go into...but I like it and understand how it works. But IMO unless you're planning a big (>255-ish) @.050 solid roller AND your combo is under ~3400 pounds with an auto the Shady 2's might work as well or better. Light car with a lot of gear will like these 220 intakes.
My car is around 2900 w/d so I think these will be worth some useable Hp/tq up top
Posted By: Darryls-Demon
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 11/23/12 12:30 AM
Bobby do you think the air speed in the intake port may be a little slow and hurt a heavy car?
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 11/23/12 03:03 AM
I do on a sub 10.5:1 combo, the real beauty of the SDSS 2's is the flow is still great for the high velocity port design. But a fair number of street compression mild gear moderate weight 408-416 combos might do better overall than with these bigger ports. The SDSS2's keep up fairly well up to about .400 lift
There's no doubt to me the airwolfs have more flow/hp potential.... but they may not be the best Et wise for milder heavier flat tappet combos as I described where average torque through the middle contributes more to the ET. The airwolfs have a very broad torque curve as evidenced on Steve D's dyno mule, but not every combo will ET best with a port that peaks torque at close to 5k...unless your also willing to gear and vert your combo accordingly
As I said I think Bryce is very clever and a highly talented head porter, there's no doubt in my mind.
Posted By: MIKES_DUSTER
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 11/23/12 09:09 PM
Not to sound like a jerk but these Airwolf heads are just a copy of thr Eddy heads???? Doesnt INDY have a set of aluminum SB heads besides the 360-1's/-2's???
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 11/23/12 09:25 PM
Mike,
They are ProComp based clones but Bryce said he had suggested some mods to the water jackets that allowed him to mod the ports a bit more than with the Eddies. They're also about 2 lbs lighter for some reason
Posted By: MIKES_DUSTER
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 11/24/12 07:27 PM
Thanks for clearing that up. Are the cheaper then the eddys??
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 11/26/12 07:13 PM
Not sure Mike, the Pro Comps are OOTB (obviously) but to run Bryce's Proprietary port work vs a set of comparably ported Eddies might be close $$$ wise.
As I said it's going to depend mainly on the combo and the HP/TQ curves you want as to which head/port combo would be best overall.
Posted By: topbrent
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 11/26/12 11:19 PM
Quote:
MIKES_DUSTER:
Are they cheaper then the eddys??
Less expensive than what Hughes charges for a set of CNC ported Edelbrock castings.
Hughes asks $2831.74 for their CNC offerings plus the price of a decent spring upgrade. http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/produ...mp;partid=27660
*
This is from the post over on "Moparts Hot Deals & New Products" that is currently running on the AirWolf heads:
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...rt=all&vc=1
Quote:
Quote:
How much are they!!???
Bryce Mulvey
AIRWOLF 220 Small Block Mopar
HYD roller spring complete $ 2200.00
Solid Roller Springs Complete Ti retainers $2600.00
Heads come with Manley race flow valves and Manley springs
STD Installation Height of 1.950
AIRWOLF 220 SBM
2.08 intake 1.60 exhaust 45 ° seats
2.48 CSA @ pinch( my prototype was 2.52 but it did not work out on the CNC production head)
Intake Flow numbers @ 28” test @ Reher Morrison
.100 72 cfm
.200 144 cfm
.300 219 cfm
.400 273 cfm
.500 301 cfm
.600 312 cfm
.700 316 cfm
.800 319 cfm
.900 321 cfm
1.00 326 cfm
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 11/27/12 02:43 PM
I have a question into Bryce (I'm hoping he answers soon) about the springs used on the Solid roller set-up.
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 11/27/12 10:18 PM
Bryce confirmed the roller springs are 220/510 so I'm good to go.
Look forward to firing the 414 back up with the new lungs.
Btw, I confirmed my 414 is really a 416, for some reason my Ohio 4" crank really measures 4.02" stroke
anybody else ever find this? I wrote it down on the build but thought I must have mis-read it.
I also modded my (way too small) 1 5/8" x 3" headers to a 3 1/2" collector and a 3 1/2 to 3 X 8" flowmaster reducer to get a little more pipe volume, not ideal but hopefully a little better.
Posted By: Triple Threat
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 11/27/12 10:26 PM
There was already a ton of potential left in your old combo's, the poor mans 340 and the 416" Eddy combo.
More tuning and racing, less changing parts
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 11/27/12 10:34 PM
@TripleThreat
I know! Beat Me! Beat me!!
I never even made a bonafide full throttle pass with the SDSS2's.
I'm bad about getting bored and having to keep messing with it....if you notice all my upgrades happen during the fall and winter.
I always sell my old stuff to people who put them to good use though do I don't feel too bad if I can horse trade some upgrades with little net out of pocket.
Looking at Bryce's Chart again....ignore for a moment the Peak numbers and just look at the torque.
Over 550 lb/ft from 4650 to 5650 and AT LEAST 500 lb/ft from 3950 to 6650, over that span the HP goes from 390 to 633, that's why I had to get them, same reason I went for the Chap Stage 6's on my 517 BB, I love that wall to wall powerband, to me that's what makes a stroker, to have a dead simple normally aspirated combo that has close to a boost induced powerband.
Again not what I'd necessesarily run on a 3500 pound 10:1 3.54 geared 416 E-body T/A but for an 11.5:1 2900 pound 4.10 geared Rocky it ought to be a great fit.
Posted By: Darryls-Demon
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 11/28/12 12:50 AM
So Bobby how big of a SB do you think one would need with the Airwolf heads in a 3400lb street-strip car?
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 11/28/12 01:12 AM
Are you talking a 10:1 408-416 street motor, 3000 stall and 3.91 gears? The airwolfs (airwolves?) would still work well but probably not as well as SDSS2's for that combo....remember the shadybrocks (can I coin that?
) are extremely fine heads, but on a 10.1 motor they are more a 2200-6200 powerband, where as the AW220's are more a 3000-6800 head. Ex: The best overall intake for the 3400 pound 10:1 combo Imentioned would be an AG RPM, but that intake won't flow to the potential of the AWs. The AW's (as well as the IMM max port eddies) can fill a niche between standard ported eddies and the W5 Indybrocks where that extra 500 RPM above 6000 can be put to use on the right 408-416 combo.
These could also work on a high strung low geared 340 but were talking 4200 stall or a stick and 4.30-4.57 gears in a Light car with a very carefully selected cam if it's going to see any street time. I LOVE those kinds of combos, but they're not for everybody.
A lot of people still make the More is better mistake, that's all I was saying. For the combo you describe (assuming the same Cr/stall/gears/wt) the 4.125 crank and 430 cubes would probably work great with the AW's and the right cam.
Posted By: Darryls-Demon
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 11/28/12 02:02 AM
I was thinking about 10.5 to 11.0 with a mild solid roller, but I only run a 3.73 gear.
Sounds like a 430 cubic inch or larger will be the way to go.
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 11/28/12 02:34 AM
If I were building one and wanted to use these heads for your combo and gear, I'd do a 4.125 crank. The extra cubes will work the bigger ports a few 100 rpm sooner.
I think you can build a BPE 4.125 or 4.25 stroke motor for around the same as his 408 kit, I'm gonna do one next time
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 11/28/12 04:20 PM
Darryl
That's the way I'd go, 4.07 x 4.125 is 429 cubes.
I'd put a .600 ish lift ~252/256 @.050 Bullet SR with 10.5:1 on 108 in around 104 and a ~3500 stall/4500 flash 9.5 vert. I'd prefer a built low gear set 904 to a 727 with your gears but that's just me
the 727 would be worry free though.
1 7/8" E body TTI's and a pro systems 1000hp on a Victor 340 should still have awesome roll on torque and start pulling hard around 3300 and peak around 5800 and rev to 6300 or there abouts.
The extra cubes make up for a little less compression and cam compared to the 408 but it'll be available sooner (where you want it.
A quick footnote....the one reason I'm so big on the torque curve is that people usually (sometimes suprisingly) figure out that when you have a broad torque curve (which is roughly 85% of peak torque) spanning over 1/2 your total powerband, you quickly find out that you have such a wide sweet spot that you don't have to worry so much about getting the converter exactly right (you can go a little tighter) or hitting the shift points just right, it just makes the 'stroker experience' a lot more fun to drive, which means you'll want to drive the car more
Posted By: Darryls-Demon
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 11/29/12 02:07 AM
Yes Bobby I have a 904 with the low first gear set and my 9.5 convertor flashes to 4800 behind my W2 headed 408.
So you still like the cam growned on a 108 lsa instead of something like 112 with a 4.125 stroke?
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 11/29/12 02:44 AM
Yeah, I do on pretty much any non boosted/nitrous mopar combo unless I'm trying to kill some torque through the middle or they are exhaust restricted. The only carburetted street Motors I've ever worked on that seem to run better on wider spreads and Late ICLs are Bb Buicks, Bb chevys and many small block fords. Some small tire A body big block cars back in the day actually with a 110-112 split because they wouldn't hook on the shift recovery. Buicks seem to run best really wide like 114, I think it must have something more to do with the fuel delivery/distribution through the manifold getting upset with large overlaps.
When the cubes get Big ( like over 580) you pretty much have to go wider since the running ramps have to be big enough to get the big motors to RPM at all.
Posted By: Dunnuck Racing
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 11/29/12 02:57 AM
Quote:
Yeah, I do on pretty much any non boosted/nitrous mopar combo unless I'm trying to kill some torque through the middle or they are exhaust restricted. The only street Motors I've ever worked on that seem to run better on wider spreads and Late ICLs are Buicks and many small block fords. Some small tire A body big block cars back in the day actually with a 110-112 split because they wouldn't hook on the shift recovery.
My 421 with ported Edelbrock heads really likes 106 lsa with similar duration flat tappet cams.
Out of 10 cams I tested,106 to 108 worked best. The one in it now is 264/268 @.050 106 lsa and made 578 tq and 620 hp. Nice fat tq curve.
Keith
Posted By: Darryls-Demon
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 11/29/12 03:06 AM
So with your cam I would need to make sure I drop the exhaust when I get to the track.
So far I have been lazy when I run my car, I leave the exhaust hooked up and the spare tire and the jack in the trunk. But I do turn down the stereo.
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 11/29/12 03:38 AM
No not at all, by restricted exhaust I mean where the benefits of overlap are negated by backpressure like from manifolds or tiny headers. Combos like that need wider spreads, later ICL's and the intake tract need s to pretty much 'fend for itself'
For the 430 the TTI's and a nice 3.5 to 3 dual system would be perfect, x pipe would be a plus but not a necessity IMO.
Posted By: Dunnuck Racing
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 11/29/12 04:16 AM
Quote:
No not at all, by restricted exhaust I mean where the benefits of overlap are negated by backpressure like from manifolds or tiny headers. Combos like that need wider spreads, later ICL's and the intake tract need s to pretty much 'fend for itself'
For the 430 the TTI's and a nice 3.5 to 3 dual system would be perfect, x pipe would be a plus but not a necessity IMO.
This is where I have to disagree Wizened.
Even in engines with restrictions in the exhaust,I see benefits with tighter lsa. I usually find that an engine size favors a certain lsa regardless unless compression ratios go way up. There are minor exceptions,but more often than not this is the case.
Even my stock small block I'm testing favors a narrow lsa,with its small exhaust ports and headers.
Keith
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 11/29/12 04:41 AM
Keith,
I know there is some 'sweet spot' in the powerband that favors that tight separation, I'm wondering have you done testing of larger cube motors with small (stock or near stock) exhausts? I've almost always seen that the overall powerband is broader ( though maybe not in terms of absolute 'peak" torque) with a wider spread.
A good example comes to mind with AndyF's 470 motor running stock ehaust manifolds, of all the cams he tested the old .single pattern MP528 with a 112 split worked best. The tight 'sweet spot' of torque you speak of logically has to cost you some horsepower ( literally the motor's ability to gain rpm past the VE peak) on the top of the range, and of course (as Andy also found out) the induction side is impacted as well. Sidebar: WAY too O/T to get into here but the VE curve in terms of keeping the crank from slowing (rpm/sec) after peak torque helps keep the induction charging, a peakier curve means the crank is slowing at a faster rate after the peak, not an issue with Good heads but when they're not.... We need to talk over a few Barley pops some time ;-)
I know a number of Stock eliminator and even circle track combos have a very narrow "sweet spot" and they do their best to optimize the car dynamics around it and a degree or 2 of cam timing the wrong way really screws things up to where it won't fall out of a tree. I agree with you in terms of peak that a narrow spread can usually peak higher SOMEWHERE in the powerband, I've just not seen very many that can hold a better average curve (VE) typically falls quicker after the peak. It's all what your after and what class limitation (ex: FAST) you have to contend with. All the motor combos and even porting techniques play a big role unmaking a combo work....or not.
Also overall drivability and especially weight and gearing can come into play, if your running a 416 with stock exhausts and an OD trans with a 2.94 final drive I'm not sure I'd go 108 centers even if the torque peak was slightly higher for need of a smoother more tractible low RPM roll on. Also individual intake/exhaust duration specs can have a near equal effect on effective overlap than the physical spread itself.
I've worked on and consulted on a lot of 'stealthy' combos over the years, nothing surprises me much anymore....except Buicks
Sorry to get so O/T !!!
Posted By: Dunnuck Racing
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 11/29/12 05:28 AM
Wize ,
Sometimes it benefits us to look at things in different ways. We must be skinning the cat differently. I prefer to keep the narrow lobe centers and if necessary ,change the intake or exhaust duration slightly to make up for deficiency where necessary.
I personally don't buy in to the theory of tighter centers making an engine peakier because I have never seen it happen.
Certain other engine designs are exceptions as you noted.
It would be nice to sit down with you over a few golden sodas someday.
And since we are off topic,I have to wonder how many different cams Andyf tried and what they were as Ive never seen much said about them. Anyway,carry in and have fun with your new heads!
Keith
Posted By: moderncylinder
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 11/29/12 07:40 PM
on a side note,, a guy just came in with a set of pro comp small blk mopar heads,, look exactly like the airwolf,, same hardware,, same port difference in the port from an edelbrock,, im thinking the airwolf is just a generic cnc from china,,
this guy paid 1425 for the ported, assembled,, to his door from minnesota
im opening up the chambers,, as cast 65 cc's,, and doing a valve job
jeff
Posted By: B3422W5
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 11/29/12 10:07 PM
Jeff
So is what you are saying is that these airwolf heads are the same exact same head as what your customer brought in to your shop?
Because the airwolfs seem to be roughly 1000 more expensive.
Also did those pro comps have any helicoiling done to help with threads hanging on to rocker gear?
Posted By: fishy340
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 11/29/12 10:08 PM
man first it was best now its this,you got issues dude..
Posted By: moderncylinder
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 11/29/12 10:50 PM
i checked a int port and it was only 195 cc's,, im sure the airwolf is bryce's own program.....
they have heli coils in the exh face and rocker bolts
im amazed how cheap these things are for what they are,,, a head to make 600 hp with chamber porting and a better valve job he will have 1750 reassembling them himself,,, cheap for what it is
fishy, what do you mean? this cnc work on these heads looks nice,, so initially i thought bryce may "tune up" a few areas, do a valve job and sell them,, but he must have a larger port to get to 225 cc's
and whats my problem with best? i dont have anything? im just an honest guy and call bs when i see it,,, isnt the case here,,
Posted By: B3422W5
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 11/29/12 11:03 PM
Jeff
Thanks for the info.
Curious if that procomp head is the "revised water jacket" casting?
I kinda figured a 225 cc head like his airwolf would make a sorted out 32-3300 pound 904 car run 9.90-10.0 without nasty unstreetable ramps pretty cheaply.
Darn nice sounding alternative
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 11/29/12 11:36 PM
Pretty sure the AirWolfs are Bryce's proprietary CNC port, as I mentioned in an earlier post he has a very clever 'signature' mod that I've also seen on some Top Tier Cup car heads.
The Ports are cavernous for a Standard gasket 340 and he whittles a lot of meat from the guide areas to where the valve pocket/bowl more closely resembles an old Dick Landy Pro Stock head I saw years ago.
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 11/29/12 11:37 PM
nice view of the bowls/guides
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 11/29/12 11:39 PM
the floor is decidedly lower than the Eddy as I compared them side by side with my SDSS2's
Posted By: mshred
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 11/30/12 12:00 AM
Quote:
on a side note,, a guy just came in with a set of pro comp small blk mopar heads,, look exactly like the airwolf,, same hardware,, same port difference in the port from an edelbrock,, im thinking the airwolf is just a generic cnc from china,,
this guy paid 1425 for the ported, assembled,, to his door from minnesota
im opening up the chambers,, as cast 65 cc's,, and doing a valve job
jeff
Jeff, do you know where he got the blank heads from? Also, would you care to share your ported numbers on these heads (im assuming you are going to cnc them as well)...Be interesting to see what the 195cc can do as well, and also what you think of the casting quality
Posted By: moderncylinder
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 11/30/12 01:14 AM
all im doing is the chambers and a valve job......
he got the castings from a guy in minnesota,,, castings are 441.00 each
assembled heads 550 each
ported heads bare 642 each
assembled ported heads 751.50 each
Posted By: 70AARcuda
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 11/30/12 01:22 AM
Quote:
all im doing is the chambers and a valve job......
he got the castings from a guy in minnesota,,, castings are 441.00 each
assembled heads 550 each
ported heads bare 642 each
assembled ported heads 751.50 each
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DODGE-MOPAR-PLYM...ee8&vxp=mtr
Posted By: 70AARcuda
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 11/30/12 01:25 AM
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SMALL-BLOCK-CHRY...=item43ae1e81d5these guys sell them at a lower price bare...also have completed and cnc head in package deal...
the cheaper guy charges for shipping the other guy has free shipping..so it is almost a wash on the price.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/318-340-360-CHRY...=item43b3b2da96and this link give you the all import top end..LOL
Posted By: mshred
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 11/30/12 02:10 AM
Quote:
all im doing is the chambers and a valve job......
he got the castings from a guy in minnesota,,, castings are 441.00 each
assembled heads 550 each
ported heads bare 642 each
assembled ported heads 751.50 each
So did he get them assembled from the guy in minnesota for 1425 or he bought them bare and loaded them with his own stuff? Would be interesting to see what the quality of the "assembled" parts on the heads are like
Posted By: mshred
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 11/30/12 02:11 AM
Quote:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SMALL-BLOCK-CHRY...=item43ae1e81d5
these guys sell them at a lower price bare...also have completed and cnc head in package deal...
the cheaper guy charges for shipping the other guy has free shipping..so it is almost a wash on the price.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/318-340-360-CHRY...=item43b3b2da96
and this link give you the all import top end..LOL
Only one with posted flow numbers is the whole import package lol....Seem close to eddy flow numbers even hand ported?
For $800 bucks for the pair bare, that leaves how much left to assemble them PROPERLY? Just thinking out loud of whether they really are worth it over the edelbrocks by the time you install good hardware on them....Thats of course if the parts they come with are no good
Posted By: moderncylinder
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 11/30/12 02:15 AM
he bought them assembled,,, the parts are fine,,, nothing looks cheap......
the valve job as far as airflow goes looks bad,,, so im "fixing" it,, the edelbrock head likes a wide top angle,, this head has no top angle,, so im thinking they will pick up....maybe ill flow them after im done to show what they do
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 11/30/12 02:20 AM
Springs, locks and valves for an additional $109.00
I know nobody really wants to sell them bare so that price is usually jacked up a bit but still....I doubt they are Manley or Ferreas.
Bryce's provides nice high quality Manley valvetrain with the Airwolfs. I believe he buys them raw and puts in his own hardened seats and guides so likely not apples to apples even if they are the same castings. You certainly don't want to skimp where it counts IMO. Edelbrock is selling lower grade heads now and they cut the costs in the quality of the seats and finish machining.
Casting quality of my pair of airwolfs looks to me to be on par with the eddies
Posted By: mshred
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 11/30/12 02:23 AM
Quote:
he bought them assembled,,, the parts are fine,,, nothing looks cheap......
the valve job as far as airflow goes looks bad,,, so im "fixing" it,, the edelbrock head likes a wide top angle,, this head has no top angle,, so im thinking they will pick up....maybe ill flow them after im done to show what they do
A flow test would be great to be honest
Posted By: mshred
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 11/30/12 02:25 AM
Quote:
Springs, locks and valves for an additional $109.00
Bryce's provides nice high quality Manley valvetrain with the Airwolfs.
Casting quality of my pair of airwolfs looks to me to be on par with the eddies
I know, its a little funny I agree that its not much more fully assembled...I wonder what kind of spring and valve they are using.
Bryce's is kinda the same deal, atleast on his website anyways...2,000 bare, or 2,200 fully assembled...unless im reading it wrong on there somewhere
Posted By: B3422W5
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 11/30/12 02:41 AM
What hasn't been figured out is if these procomp heads have the "water passages modified" and are where Bryce starts running his program from
Or if the heads we are talking about here are " standard water" like an Eddie knockoff.
Think they must all be cast the same?
Posted By: mshred
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 11/30/12 03:08 AM
Quote:
What hasn't been figured out is if these procomp heads have the "water passages modified" and are where Bryce starts running his program from
Or if the heads we are talking about here are " standard water" like an Eddie knockoff.
Think they must all be cast the same?
Didn't Jeff mention a few posts ago that the port floors are lower then the eddies? If they are, then I think they are cast with the moved water ports it would seem...just guessing though
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 11/30/12 05:24 PM
I believe Bryce said that ProComp sent him a set of Prototypes for his input and Bryce told them to lower the Jacket so his R&D port could work.....only Bryce can confirm that and there's no telling if there are earlier versions already in circulation. For all I know maybe Bryce has a proprietary casting unique for AirWolf heads.
I did notice there is a production date stamp on my heads, maybe that's how they keep track rather than with Cast-in numbers.
Posted By: moderncylinder
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 11/30/12 09:51 PM
These heads are 03-12-2011
I assume number 117, and 155 machined,, numbers after date
This short side looks low,,, is think it's same head
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 12/01/12 12:10 AM
First 'snag'
Torqued them down and my pushrods are just a hair too long
The cups are just bottoming in the back sides of the rocker with no lash. brand new Manton 11/32nds too. Wish I could find that old set of MP rocker shaft shims, anybody got a set??
Posted By: 70AARcuda
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 12/01/12 02:03 AM
Quote:
First 'snag'
Torqued them down and my pushrods are just a hair too long
The cups are just bottoming in the back sides of the rocker with no lash. brand new Manton 11/32nds too. Wish I could find that old set of MP rocker shaft shims, anybody got a set??
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MOPAR-STAINLESS-...fa5&vxp=mtr
dont know if these will work or help...
Posted By: pittsburghracer
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 12/01/12 02:20 AM
Quote:
First 'snag'
Torqued them down and my pushrods are just a hair too long
The cups are just bottoming in the back sides of the rocker with no lash. brand new Manton 11/32nds too. Wish I could find that old set of MP rocker shaft shims, anybody got a set??
http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/rocshafshim1.html
Posted By: DJVCuda
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 12/01/12 05:00 AM
Quote:
First 'snag'
Torqued them down and my pushrods are just a hair too long
The cups are just bottoming in the back sides of the rocker with no lash. brand new Manton 11/32nds too. Wish I could find that old set of MP rocker shaft shims, anybody got a set??
PM me your addy....
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 12/01/12 03:32 PM
PM sent! Thanks!
The pushrods are just a hair too long with the new heads, not sure why but it is what it is.
The shims should give me just enough to give me lash adjustment on the rockers.
Posted By: B3422W5
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 12/01/12 04:22 PM
Wize..
what kind of rocker gear are you running?
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 12/01/12 05:02 PM
Comp Magnum stainless only 1.5:1's, I'd like to run 1.6's on the intakes to get my lift up over .600 but thet are what I have.
here's a shot of them on the Eddie's
Posted By: B3422W5
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 12/01/12 06:57 PM
Quote:
Comp Magnum stainless only 1.5:1's, I'd like to run 1.6's on the intakes to get my lift up over .600 but thet are what I have.
here's a shot of them on the Eddie's
Those dont look too bad at all, have to fool around much to attain good geometry?
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 12/01/12 08:09 PM
The wipe was dead nuts....but of course these are my Old heads. I think an .040 shim will cure the new ones, that should give me about .026 allowance for lash or there abouts (I run .016/.018)
These are 1.55" OD springs, Bryce said he had to run lash caps (which he gave me) to clear the Aluminum 1.6:1 rockers he ran on Stevie D's 408 mule. Looks like mine clear fine and adding a lash cap would 'go the wrong way' for my app.
Posted By: pittsburghracer
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 12/01/12 09:20 PM
Those shims will work but they also have resulted in broken shafts. Weight your options before making a choice. Sometimes a new set of pushrods is cheaper than repairing the damage.
Posted By: justinp61
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 12/01/12 09:22 PM
Why not buy the correct pushrods? You've spent money for the heads don't cheap out now.
Posted By: Hot 340
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 12/01/12 09:38 PM
Bobby, if ever in a pinch, you can buy 10 gm starter shims from the auto parts, cut off the end with the hole in it, and use that end for a rocker shim. Just pitch the slotted end in the trash..
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 12/02/12 12:09 AM
I don't see how anything could break by using a shim as long as the geometry is correct.
Posted By: goldmember
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 12/02/12 01:36 AM
Why not shorten the pushrods you have?
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 12/02/12 02:12 AM
.030", I don't think it's worth it to?
Someone tell me what's the big deal with a Shim? I've turned motors 8 grand with them, as much stuff that moves around the base of the shaft is the least of my worries. The shaft doesnt know the base of the pedestal is steel and not cast aluminum. Small blocks have those puny 5/16 shaft bolts, at least I have the stout Hughes hold downs. It's not like I'm running a Comp eliminator motor here
Bad geometry and binding is what breaks valvetrain parts from my experience.
Posted By: B3422W5
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 12/02/12 02:21 AM
Previous poster makes good sense, IMO.
Cost is same to have them cut .030 or two feet.
I guess in the whole scheme of a performance build, I would much rather eliminate having to shim/ band aid anything, especially if I could do it for likely under a 100 bucks at a competent machine shop I would think
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 12/02/12 02:49 AM
Ok, ok, you guys win
I'll call Terry on Monday.
BTW, here's the exhaust port...it's actually a couple CFM LESS than the SDSS2's
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 12/02/12 05:10 PM
close up of the Chamber and side by side "published flow numbers vs the very good (and probably more efficient (CFM per sq/in of port section) SDSS2's
SDSS ported Flow #'s --AirWolf 220's
LIFT--IN/EX --LIFT-IN/EX
.100"--72.6/NA --.100"--72/69
.200"--146.9/110.8 --.200" --144/110
.300"--196.3/150.1 --.300"-- 219/146
.400"--245.8/180.2 --.400"-- 273/174
.500"--268.6/203.4 --.500" --301/201
.600"--276.6/218.6 --.600" --312/216
.700"--286.6/223.8 --.700"-- 316/225
Posted By: Bad340fish
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 12/02/12 06:08 PM
Quote:
Comp Magnum stainless only 1.5:1's, I'd like to run 1.6's on the intakes to get my lift up over .600 but thet are what I have.
here's a shot of them on the Eddie's
Wize, what lifters are those? They look like they would come out OK with the heads on. IIRC my comps won't come out with the heads on. Thanks
Clark
Posted By: toddd
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 12/02/12 06:26 PM
Are you comparing a Stage 2 porting job to a Full on porting job???
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 12/02/12 06:34 PM
Todd
Lifters are Morels
I'm comparing the SDSS stage 2's to the Airwolfs because that is what I had vs what I'm moving to, that's all
Obviously the full on SDSS4's would be more 'Apples to Apples' but many of of on Moparts already have Ryan's stage 2's and they are awesome heads and a Huge upgrade from OOTB Edelbrocks
Posted By: justinp61
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 12/02/12 06:41 PM
We don't race flow benches.
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 12/02/12 06:57 PM
That is so very true Justin, but what also is true (from my experience of 30+ years of building strokers) is past a certain cylinder volume to port cross section, the VE will start to drop rapidly if there is insufficient runner volume to keep the (bigger stroker) hole filled. Even with equal or near equal flowbench numbers. and Especially with a carb you have to have adequate room to get both the air and the fuel volume past the intake valve to squeeze and burn it. Fuel (even in suspension) is a solid and still consumes Volume in the port, and (normally aspirated and for a given cross section and overall runner length/port volume) past a certain point you can only get so much of both in only so fast.
I bought the AW's to try them because the VE ( broad torque especially beyond the torque peak) more or less demonstrates this point.
The other funny thing about flow benches is they measure cubic feet per minute. On a running 8 cylinder engine any intake valve is closed for nearly 2/3'd of that minute, and for most the other roughly 20 seconds it is only partially open.
Posted By: 70408cuda
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 12/02/12 10:03 PM
Subject Air Wolf 220 Heads Doubts…
They are cut for 1.625” springs. How does that work? 1.500” prings on Edelbrock heads and these being a Chinese knowck off of the Eddie heads.
1.The rockers would have to have some maximum notch cuttings to clear a spring of that size
2.Will the rockers be strong enough to handle spring pressures that 1.625” springs generate after all that cutting?
3.Air Wolf did did claim “standard LA hardware”
4. The +.100” retainers they use presents even more rocker arm clearance problems. When they claim standard hardware does that mean standard T+D or Crane type stuff?
Posted By: MoparBilly
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 12/02/12 10:11 PM
Ben,
Welcome to moparts...due diligence will be done, patience.
Posted By: 70408cuda
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 12/02/12 10:14 PM
Subject Air Wolf 220
Some of the “fact” on the Air Wolf 220 heads don’t sound right
The C.S.A. of 2.48 SQ in for one! If you look at MOpar Muscle Dec, 12 issure Hughes moves that pushrod over .200” making the gasket the pinch point claiming a CSA of 2.57 SQ in. Air Wolf’s pinch point appears nearly stock which would be around 2.250 at best. Where or how does he measure his CSA?
Next is his port volume of 220 cc’s. Refferencing the same Mopar Muscle magazine article Hughes claims his port increased 11cc (up to 206cc)when he moved the prt over .200”. Having ported a few Edelbrocks, which the Air Wolf is basically a copy of, I find it difficult to believe he has a 220cc port especially with the pushrod in the stock location.
Posted By: Abodyjohn88
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 12/02/12 11:11 PM
Why don't you get your hands on a set our talk to somebody with first hands experience before you spew your mouth with idiotic "doubts" about a head you know nothing about. Phukstic
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 12/03/12 12:25 AM
Narrowest point at the inch with my calipers is ~1.030 but the height seems to open up (floor and roof) beyond the 2.30" port entry, kind of like "offsetting" so even if the minimum cross section is less than 2.48", I doubt it's very much less at all. As the man said, pictures can't tell you what your eyes and fingers can.
Something Bryce did for rocker clearance is he used lash caps and when I add them now my pushrods needs to be ~.055-.060 shorter. The Comps do clear the springs but it ain't by much and the caps help increase it.
As for the bigger springs, I'm not sure except to think that by going to a shorter/wider spring allows more room to port the roof, (using a noticably shallow spring plunge cut) to give you a comparable seat/open pressure. Seemed like a great app for a beehive
I'm hoping Bryce will home back in, maybe somebody can ping him on YB?
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 12/03/12 05:47 PM
I called Manton this morning to order new Pushrods .060" shorter. It was actually less $$$ when you consider shipping the old ones back & forth. I could have found a local machine shop but Manton actually replaces the Cups because they are heat damaged when they replace them.
Have I been on another planet because I wasn't aware that Terry Manton passed away last February
RIP, my friend, One HECK OF A NICE GUY!!
Posted By: Bryce Mulvey
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 12/15/12 03:22 AM
Quote:
I called Manton this morning to order new Pushrods .060" shorter. It was actually less $$$ when you consider shipping the old ones back & forth. I could have found a local machine shop but Manton actually replaces the Cups because they are heat damaged when they replace them.
Have I been on another planet because I wasn't aware that Terry Manton passed away last February
RIP, my friend, One HECK OF A NICE GUY!!
Wise did you get your car running yet???
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 12/15/12 05:13 PM
Bryce,
Not yet I just received the new shorter pushrods so I've got to install them, set the lash and the bolt the intake and exhaust back on.
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 12/20/12 03:45 PM
BTW, I opened up the front Head gasket deck passages (as I mentioned in the other thread Here:)
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...e=0#Post7509964More flow means more power...but it also means more heat, and I never really cared for Ma's OEM thought process of routing all the cooling water through the block first and then to the heads. People may debate this HG mod but to me it makes a lot of sense, especially with aluminum heads to get the cooler water to the heads as well as the block straight of the pump discharge. The trade off on the street is it takes longer for the motor to heat up, but on a stroker you're also building power (and with it heat) sooner, I don't know if I'd do it in a Minnesota street daily driver but down here in a NC bracket car it works fine.
I'm debating whether to mod my Victor to allow for the rear cooling lines, the pass side is a real PITA to mill flat.
Posted By: OUTLAW MOPAR
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 12/20/12 05:32 PM
The head gasket mod works great and so does the front to rear intake mod. I have built 318 demo derby motors that way for years.
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 12/29/12 04:51 PM
Has anyone seen the latest issue of Engine Masters magazine? My buddy texted me last night and said the heads I bought from Bryce that were used on Steve Dulcich's 633 horse 408 is in there, but I've been out of town for the holidays so I don't know for sure and probably won't for a few more days.
Thanks!
Posted By: Bryce Mulvey
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 12/29/12 04:58 PM
Wize your heads are famous
Posted By: 1fastaspen
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 12/29/12 05:51 PM
We just ordered a set cant wait to get them
Posted By: Dunnuck Racing
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 12/30/12 12:26 AM
I picked it up a couple weeks ago. When you get it,compare it to the 421 inch Chevy build with Air Wolf 220 heads. Interesting
Keith
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 12/31/12 12:10 AM
Found the Mag today. Yeah that Chevy has similar flows, a bit better due to the larger x section and the much larger 2.15 intake and bigger 4.155 bore probably help too. The Chevy was a dart block, a much more expensive package, even though they did it all with a hydraulic roller cam.
My 414 is very similar in all respects to the 408 so it should be fun...can't wait for spring now!!
Posted By: Bryce Mulvey
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 12/31/12 06:55 PM
Quote:
I picked it up a couple weeks ago. When you get it,compare it to the 421 inch Chevy build with Air Wolf 220 heads. Interesting
Keith
Its all about the hp/cube
408 mopar 1.55 @ 408 if it was a 421 652hp
Posted By: Dunnuck Racing
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 12/31/12 07:23 PM
Quote:
Quote:
I picked it up a couple weeks ago. When you get it,compare it to the 421 inch Chevy build with Air Wolf 220 heads. Interesting
Keith
Its all about the hp/cube
408 mopar 1.55 @ 408 if it was a 421 652hp
My point,exactly! I would like to see the Mopar heads tested on a 4.125 bore. I think the small block Mopar's "normal" bore sizes are a big hindrance to making power.
Posted By: Triple Threat
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 12/31/12 07:25 PM
Someone send me a set, I've got a 4.125" bore SBM to flog them on.
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 01/01/13 08:56 PM
Keith,
But by that reasoning, wouldn't a SB Chevy or Windsor Ford be at a HP DISADVANTAGE because neither of those motors have the valve centerlines at the bore centerline like the mopar does?
Also worth noting that Chevy LS heads flow a Ton of air despite bores ranging from 3.9 to 4.06
Posted By: dwayne welder
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 01/01/13 09:49 PM
Just a note, ON LS bore size's now range are ls-3 = 6.2lt. = 4.065. The LS-7 is, 4.125!!!!
Posted By: Dunnuck Racing
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 01/01/13 11:18 PM
Quote:
Keith,
But by that reasoning, wouldn't a SB Chevy or Windsor Ford be at a HP DISADVANTAGE because neither of those motors have the valve centerlines at the bore centerline like the mopar does?
They DO have a disadvantage in that respect,but they have the advantage on port size and shape. Bryces Chevy build had better flowing heads and bigger bores. That is why I would like to see similar bore sizes tested between the two.
Posted By: rickstershemi
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 01/02/13 12:29 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Keith,
But by that reasoning, wouldn't a SB Chevy or Windsor Ford be at a HP DISADVANTAGE because neither of those motors have the valve centerlines at the bore centerline like the mopar does?
They DO have a disadvantage in that respect,but they have the advantage on port size and shape. Bryces Chevy build had better flowing heads and bigger bores. That is why I would like to see similar bore sizes tested between the two.
Is someone contemplating a build for Cut's small-block race that's being yacked about over on the bullit.....??????
Rickster
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 01/02/13 02:26 PM
Vic,
Interestingly, Bryce's published flow numbers for the Mopar 220's was on a 4.125 bore so I expect the actual flow in the 4.03 bore 633 hp dyno 408 would have been a bit less than the advertised numbers.
On the LS I guess I forgot about the 427" Z06 motor....my bad but that one is kind of a special case that is few in number and only resides in Vette's. does Dart or someone make a 4.125" bore aluminum aftermarket block? I know there are a few iron ones. I have an 06 Trailblazer SS with the LS2 I may look at upgrading someday. Right now it's my tow vehicle
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 01/02/13 07:05 PM
Interesting to look at the published Indybrock (offset rocker w/removed pushrod pinch) flow numbers vs the Airwolfs on the 587 horse 360 thread. I'd love to see a side by side since the Advertised flow numbers are so close. What might be even more interesting is what the AW's might flow with the offset rocker and removed pinch...
Posted By: DJVCuda
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 01/02/13 07:11 PM
One thing I learned on my build is to take the advertised flow numbers with a grain of salt - I tested 3 different heads on the shops flowbench and none were close to the advertised numbers.
I guess what I am trying to say is that all flowbenches seem to flow different, so unless they are flowed on the same bench then it is real hard to compare the numbers advertised.
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 01/02/13 08:06 PM
Yes, that's no doubt very true.
But over 30+ years now I can pretty much look at a port or compare 2 ports side by side and fairly accurately predict the outcomes. I can pretty much do it blindfolded by touch and tell what kind of power the head will make.
The interesting thing is I think I learned more about Mopar heads from going back and forth to them after working with several other makes and wedge layouts.
Posted By: topbrent
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 01/02/13 10:30 PM
Quote:
Streetwize:
I have an 06 Trailblazer SS with the LS2 I may look at upgrading someday. Right now it's my tow vehicle
You can have your LS2 block resleeved using the Darton Dry Sleeve system for up to 4.185 bore. For larger bores, go with the ERL SuperDeck system and have up to a 4.200 bore if you desire.
ERL, RED and Livernois all perform this mod.
ERL: http://erlperformance.com/home-domestic
RED: http://www.raceenginedevelopment.com/pages/694927/index.htm
Livernois Sleeving demonstration: http://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iv-...onstration.html
Posted By: DJVCuda
Re: airwolf sbm 220 heads!!!! for a sb mopar - 01/03/13 11:30 AM
Quote:
Yes, that's no doubt very true.
But over 30+ years now I can pretty much look at a port or compare 2 ports side by side and fairly accurately predict the outcomes. I can pretty much do it blindfolded by touch and tell what kind of power the head will make.
The interesting thing is I think I learned more about Mopar heads from going back and forth to them after working with several other makes and wedge layouts.
How true that is. The machinist I worked with showed me a lot of that. He showed a few obvious differences a novice would pass right over such as dog boning in the intake runners and such. Very interesting stuff.
