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Dyno Gurus Advice Needed!!! #1297204
09/04/12 01:13 PM
09/04/12 01:13 PM
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Posts: 2,008
Sweet Home Alabama
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MRMOPAR622 Offline OP
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Dyno operators advice needed. When we have our engines dynoed how do we know the dyno is calibrated/setup right? Looking at the instrumentation on the dyno is there a certain gauge or gauges we can look at to make sure our dyno results will be accurate? We hear a lot of talk about "Happy Dynos" we even have a post on here referring to "Happy Dynos" I did not want to hijack that post with this question.

Hopefully some of you dyno gurus can step in and tell us the correct procedures for setting up the dyno.


"To Be The Man'You Have Got To Beat The Man" "T/D and Pro-Bracket Racer"
Re: Dyno Gurus Advice Needed!!! [Re: MRMOPAR622] #1297205
09/04/12 01:40 PM
09/04/12 01:40 PM
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Posts: 5,486
SoCal
Brian Hafliger Offline
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You can look at the correction factor, usually if the weather is good and elevation is between 0 and 2000ft. the CF will be 1-1.04.
You can ask them when the last time they calibrated it...or if you business means alot to them they may calibrate it in front of you?

As delivered, our DTS reads slightly low compared to what they recommend, and much lower than what a Superflow CF would read but everytime we check calibration it's the same, so I feel no need to change it. Ours is less than 1/2% off.

It's also good to find others who have used the same dyno as you, and find out how they run at the track vs. the power they made.
Brian


Brian Hafliger
Re: Dyno Gurus Advice Needed!!! [Re: MRMOPAR622] #1297206
09/04/12 01:58 PM
09/04/12 01:58 PM
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Posts: 3,300
Northern Indiana
Dunnuck Racing Offline
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It is not a big deal to do a calibration check. You hang a weight on an arm and check to see if the torque reading is where it should be.
I check calibration on mine every time I turn it on. Ask them to check it in front of you,if they won't look for someone else.
On Superflow dynos ther is a dial by the operators left knee to make minor adjustments. An unscrupulous operator can turn the dial up to add power and make you think he is a great tuner. Make sure the torque reading is zero or maybe Plus or minus a lb-ft of torque with the engine not running
Keith

Re: Dyno Gurus Advice Needed!!! [Re: MRMOPAR622] #1297207
09/04/12 02:57 PM
09/04/12 02:57 PM
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Posts: 43,194
Bend,OR USA
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I'm under the impression that there is a friction table on the DTS and the Studka dynos that can be adjusted for the flywheel wieght, IE aluminum 17 lb wheel or a 40 lb steel wheel The DTS uses a large diameter steel plate bolted to your flywheel, the Studka driveshaft bolts directly to the crankshaft usually with no flywheel or flexplate I had one customer who I had built a 484 C.I. RB pump gas street motor that he had supplied a really bad set of Mopar Stage IV heads that had the seats sunk really bad, it made 496 HP on the best pull with changing a bunch of parts. He made a comment to the dyno operator that he was really hoping to make 500 HP with that motor, the dyno operator shut the motor down and went into one of the tables in the software and made some changes to them, the next pull made 504 HP I ask the dyno operator several months later what he did to do that, he siad he change the friction table, IE flywheel weight I told him to never do that on any of my motors agian Even if I begged him to, he said okay On the local Studka dyno the current operator had been running it without calibrating it, once he did the calibrattion,maybe 20 minutes max to do it, with his shops race motor on it the dyno showed a hundred HP and comparable torque loss on that motor I had dyno tested one of my motors on it and then took the same motor with no changes to a DTS dyno in Klamath, OR which is at 4300 Ft above sea level versus 2500 Ft above at the Studka dyno, my motor showed 100 HP less on the DTS dyno After bringing back to the Studka dyno with the 17 lb flywheel still on the Studka operator wanted to use my flywheel, 8 bolt Hemi pattern, on his motor to see how much differences the flywheel would make on there motor. The Studka does have, I think, a friction table, it may be label some other name that escapes me right now Using the flywheel makes a lot of difference on the throttle response on the Studka dyno, both the DTS and the Studka have electric operated throttles, the DTS does a btter job of not letting the motor rev sky high when you go to WOT to begin a pull, the Studka lets it go way above the preset RPM you set to start the pulls at before it slows it down so you can start the pull at or below that preset RPM Have fun and keep in mind that all dyno are a measuring tool to use the measure changes that you make on the motor that day You should try different tests in the car when your done if you want to max the combo out


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Dyno Gurus Advice Needed!!! [Re: Dunnuck Racing] #1297208
09/04/12 03:17 PM
09/04/12 03:17 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,051
The Great White North
RAMM Offline
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The Great White North
Quote:

It is not a big deal to do a calibration check. You hang a weight on an arm and check to see if the torque reading is where it should be.
I check calibration on mine every time I turn it on. Ask them to check it in front of you,if they won't look for someone else.
On Superflow dynos ther is a dial by the operators left knee to make minor adjustments. An unscrupulous operator can turn the dial up to add power and make you think he is a great tuner. Make sure the torque reading is zero or maybe Plus or minus a lb-ft of torque with the engine not running
Keith




Not on a 902. J.Rob


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Re: Dyno Gurus Advice Needed!!! [Re: RAMM] #1297209
09/04/12 03:25 PM
09/04/12 03:25 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 714
Central TEXAS!!!!
sr4440 Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

It is not a big deal to do a calibration check. You hang a weight on an arm and check to see if the torque reading is where it should be.
I check calibration on mine every time I turn it on. Ask them to check it in front of you,if they won't look for someone else.
On Superflow dynos ther is a dial by the operators left knee to make minor adjustments. An unscrupulous operator can turn the dial up to add power and make you think he is a great tuner. Make sure the torque reading is zero or maybe Plus or minus a lb-ft of torque with the engine not running
Keith




Not on a 902. J.Rob




Not on a superflow powermark either.

Joe


Without Data, you’re just another guy with an opinion.
Re: Dyno Gurus Advice Needed!!! [Re: RAMM] #1297210
09/04/12 03:40 PM
09/04/12 03:40 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,179
Atco NJ
DJVCuda Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

It is not a big deal to do a calibration check. You hang a weight on an arm and check to see if the torque reading is where it should be.
I check calibration on mine every time I turn it on. Ask them to check it in front of you,if they won't look for someone else.
On Superflow dynos ther is a dial by the operators left knee to make minor adjustments. An unscrupulous operator can turn the dial up to add power and make you think he is a great tuner. Make sure the torque reading is zero or maybe Plus or minus a lb-ft of torque with the engine not running
Keith




Not on a 902. J.Rob




I just had my 430 on a SF 902 and it did in fact have the weights on the arm - to check calibration - if thats what you are referring to.

Re: Dyno Gurus Advice Needed!!! [Re: DJVCuda] #1297211
09/04/12 03:42 PM
09/04/12 03:42 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,051
The Great White North
RAMM Offline
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I was referring to the infamous "KNOB". J.Rob


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Re: Dyno Gurus Advice Needed!!! [Re: RAMM] #1297212
09/04/12 03:45 PM
09/04/12 03:45 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,179
Atco NJ
DJVCuda Offline
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Quote:

I was referring to the infamous "KNOB". J.Rob




yeah - sorry i saw no suck knob -

Re: Dyno Gurus Advice Needed!!! [Re: DJVCuda] #1297213
09/04/12 04:43 PM
09/04/12 04:43 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,300
Northern Indiana
Dunnuck Racing Offline
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Northern Indiana
Sorry I should have been more clear about the tune up knob.
I knew it was on the 901 models,and thought it was on the 902 console also.
ANY brand and model should be easy to check calibration on or I would not trust it. Checking the calibration at a certain level should be easy. Checking that it is accurate throughout the range and actually adjusting for such is a little more involved.
Keith

Re: Dyno Gurus Advice Needed!!! [Re: Dunnuck Racing] #1297214
09/04/12 05:11 PM
09/04/12 05:11 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 67
Houston, TX
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68DartRB Offline
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Houston, TX
Don't want to hijack - but what about wheel dynos like a dynojet vs dyno dynamics? It always seems the mustang and dynamics dynos are stingy compared to the dynojet? Calibration or just the nature of the beast on roller dynos?

Attached are 2 dyno runs with my E55 AMG (Diamler days - so kind of Mopar..lol). Both runs were the same day one dyno dynamics (new computer tune) and a few hours later on a dynojet so the conditions were almost idental. 53hp difference but the Torque was almost the same 542 vs 535???

Re: Dyno Gurus Advice Needed!!! [Re: 68DartRB] #1297215
09/04/12 05:12 PM
09/04/12 05:12 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 67
Houston, TX
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68DartRB Offline
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Dyno Dynamics:

Re: Dyno Gurus Advice Needed!!! [Re: MRMOPAR622] #1297216
09/04/12 05:31 PM
09/04/12 05:31 PM
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Oregon
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AndyF Offline
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Oregon
It is a very simple process to calibrate the dyno. They all come with some sort of weight bar which is used to dead load the sensor to make sure that it is reading properly. Once the load sensor is checked then the weather station is used to input the current conditions.

There are a lot of keyboard clowns who yap about "happy dynos" and such. Most of them have never run a dyno before and can be ignored.

It does make sense to use a dead load that is roughly the same as your peak torque, but it isn't an absolute requirement. But if you have the option, that is one thing to do. If your engine is going to make 600 ft-lbs of torque then you hang 600 ft-lbs on the load sensor for calibration. That way you know you're calibrated for your engine. It doesn't have to be exact, just in the ballpark.

Re: Dyno Gurus Advice Needed!!! [Re: AndyF] #1297217
09/04/12 06:20 PM
09/04/12 06:20 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,300
Northern Indiana
Dunnuck Racing Offline
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Quote:

It is a very simple process to calibrate the dyno. They all come with some sort of weight bar which is used to dead load the sensor to make sure that it is reading properly.

While this is true for checking to make sure the load cell is calibrated,there are are several other steps to checking and properly adjusting the electronics that feed and read the load cell.
I check the calibration arm weight setting every day I use mine. I check for proper voltages at the load cell and circuit board once a month. It is pretty rare for these settings to move much but with all the vibration and heat associated with testing it does happen.
I remember a post about a very popular shop being very far off on some things in another forum a couple years ago.
I check mine frequently to avoid confusion by false data since I prefer to be able to compare engines I have had on here to each other.
It also would not do much good to tell a customer he makes more power than he really does ,that would lead to issues with convertor and gear selection.

Keith

Re: Dyno Gurus Advice Needed!!! [Re: AndyF] #1297218
09/04/12 06:24 PM
09/04/12 06:24 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
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Overpriced Housing Central
RobX4406 Offline
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Quote:

There are a lot of keyboard clowns who yap about "happy dynos" and such. Most of them have never run a dyno before and can be ignored.





Please explain how an engine can go from one dyno one day, to another the next, same basic weather conditions and make 45-50 less hp. This wasn't a 700+ hp deal it was a 400 at the first and 350-355 second. Engine sure didn't run like it had 400hp in the car!

People do know how to alter/massage the software.

Re: Dyno Gurus Advice Needed!!! [Re: RobX4406] #1297219
09/04/12 06:30 PM
09/04/12 06:30 PM
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Oregon
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AndyF Offline
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There are a ton of reasons why an engine can lose 50 hp between dynos that have nothing to do with dyno calibration.

A well thought out dyno cell can easily be worth 50 hp over a poorly designed dyno cell. Even if the dynos in each cell are properly calibrated, there can easily be a large difference in power.

Re: Dyno Gurus Advice Needed!!! [Re: AndyF] #1297220
09/04/12 06:39 PM
09/04/12 06:39 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
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RobX4406 Offline
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Quote:

There are a ton of reasons why an engine can lose 50 hp between dynos that have nothing to do with dyno calibration.

A well thought out dyno cell can easily be worth 50 hp over a poorly designed dyno cell. Even if the dynos in each cell are properly calibrated, there can easily be a large difference in power.




So XE268h cammed, stock head/compression 340's make ~400hp? Sure they do...

The second reading is a lot closer to reality than the first one.

Tuning tool, yes. Believing the numbers some kick out without proving it with real world performance, not so much. Seen too many dyno tested 600hp cars at 3000-3100# run 120-122...

Re: Dyno Gurus Advice Needed!!! [Re: RobX4406] #1297221
09/04/12 06:55 PM
09/04/12 06:55 PM
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Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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One VERY SIMPLE way is too have the engine room on
A/C... if its sucking in cool air it can be 50hp or
more

Re: Dyno Gurus Advice Needed!!! [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1297222
09/04/12 06:57 PM
09/04/12 06:57 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,271
Overpriced Housing Central
RobX4406 Offline
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Quote:

One VERY SIMPLE way is too have the engine room on
A/C... if its sucking in cool air it can be 50hp or
more





Nope, cells had same ~ambient air temp and humidity, DA within 100ft.

One place even had a "mea culpa" regarding their numbers and in that they were short a good percentage of what it was really off.

If you don't believe there are happy dynos/dyno operators out there, then OK. Some guys out there know how to tweak the software, alter correction factors.

Re: Dyno Gurus Advice Needed!!! [Re: RobX4406] #1297223
09/04/12 07:04 PM
09/04/12 07:04 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
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Northern Indiana
Dunnuck Racing Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

One VERY SIMPLE way is too have the engine room on
A/C... if its sucking in cool air it can be 50hp or
more





Nope, cells had same ~ambient air temp and humidity, DA within 100ft.





This is also why we use corrected numbers.

Keith

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