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Re: Another Whats the HP [Re: Performance Only] #1284979 08/18/12 08:29 PM 08/18/12 08:29 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY OP Master
MR_P_BODY OP Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Quote: Quote: Quote: there's no coating for pistons other than hard anodize that can make up that size difference. those pistons are made with at least .0045 clearance in them so they would measure 4.0655, that leaves you .0115 piston to wall minus .001-.002 spray on moly coating. the moly coating is sacrificial and won't stay there for very long. i think that's way too much clearance. it may be time to just hone it to 4.08 and put the right size pistons in it, if the block will go that far. most factory blocks will be paper thin at that bore size. I had this same problem when I tore down my old motor and ended up doing a complete new motor/block/everything.. So there is merit in what you're saying.. But if this was the case with Mikes build.. where did the aluminum come from? i'd say only Mike knows for sure. if the engine is completely torn down there's likely evidence of where it came from. either something was coming apart or it wasn't cleaned properly before assembly. there's really no other way to say it. i'm not trying to be harsh, but what other possibilities come to mind? i know i'd like to see some pictures of the piston skirts as well as all the bearings lined up in a row. maybe he'll post some pictures. I already pitched the bearings but I can take pics of the pistons... I cleaned that block 3 times.... and I dont have a clue where the alum came from and the builder I had stop by didnt have a clue either... its like the alum came from some out side source Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 08/18/12 08:32 PM.

Re: Another Whats the HP [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1284980 08/18/12 08:48 PM 08/18/12 08:48 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY OP Master
MR_P_BODY OP Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	I think I'll pick up some cam bearings tomorrow and put them in another block to see if the lifters will work... if they do I'll have it decked... the company that coated the pistons can remove it... I just have negative vibes with this block.. and its got all nice stuff on it... billet 4 bolt caps, lifter bushings

Re: Another Whats the HP [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1284981 08/18/12 08:49 PM 08/18/12 08:49 PM
Joined: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,091 Delray beach, Florida P Performance Only top fuel
Performance Only top fuel P Joined: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,091 Delray beach, Florida	Mike, are you suggesting that somebody sabotaged your engine? i would hate to think anyone you know would do such a thing. machine shop owner and engine builder

Re: Another Whats the HP [Re: Performance Only] #1284982 08/18/12 08:52 PM 08/18/12 08:52 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY OP Master
MR_P_BODY OP Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Quote: Mike, are you suggesting that somebody sabotaged your engine? i would hate to think anyone you know would do such a thing. Dan... I have no clue.... but I KNOW its not from inside that engine(as in bearings)

Re: Another Whats the HP [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1284983 08/18/12 09:54 PM 08/18/12 09:54 PM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 320 PA W w7smallblock enthusiast
w7smallblock enthusiast W Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 320 PA	If the aluminum isn't from bearings maybe its from the biggest piece of aluminum on the engine, the W5 heads. I would look close at the spring pockets in the heads.

Re: Another Whats the HP [Re: w7smallblock] #1284984 08/18/12 10:16 PM 08/18/12 10:16 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY OP Master
MR_P_BODY OP Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Quote: If the aluminum isn't from bearings maybe its from the biggest piece of aluminum on the engine, the W5 heads. I would look close at the spring pockets in the heads. I plan on tearing them down to give them a close look... but I cut them down in the spring pocket for drain back which you have to do on the W-5s but that was a couple years ago.... nothing jumped out at me when I changed them to larger valves

Re: Another Whats the HP [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1284985 08/19/12 12:54 AM 08/19/12 12:54 AM
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 3,695 nc E emarine01 master
emarine01 master E Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 3,695 nc	Mike, sonic the current block and see if ya can go to 4.080, I have one @ 4.100 running a 3.70 crank

Re: Another Whats the HP [Re: emarine01] #1284986 08/19/12 12:58 AM 08/19/12 12:58 AM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY OP Master
MR_P_BODY OP Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Quote: Mike, sonic the current block and see if ya can go to 4.080, I have one @ 4.100 running a 3.70 crank I dont want to buy another set of pistons

Re: Another Whats the HP [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1284987 08/19/12 09:52 AM 08/19/12 09:52 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,129 Vermont T TrWaters top fuel
TrWaters top fuel T Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,129 Vermont	Are you positive that it is aluminum in the filter?

Re: Another Whats the HP [Re: TrWaters] #1284988 08/19/12 09:56 AM 08/19/12 09:56 AM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY OP Master
MR_P_BODY OP Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Quote: Are you positive that it is aluminum in the filter? We put a magnet to it and it didnt stick and its a silverish color so its not steel or a bronze/brass

Re: Another Whats the HP [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1284989 08/19/12 10:33 AM 08/19/12 10:33 AM
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 3,695 nc E emarine01 master
emarine01 master E Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 3,695 nc	Is the alu shiney or dull? Do you run solid alu or tri metal bearings? what was the round about volume of alu material? Last edited by emarine01; 08/19/12 10:35 AM.

Re: Another Whats the HP [Re: emarine01] #1284990 08/19/12 11:10 AM 08/19/12 11:10 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,990 , PA sleepyhead416 top fuel
sleepyhead416 top fuel Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,990 , PA	MOLY LUBE ?

Re: Another Whats the HP [Re: sleepyhead416] #1284991 08/19/12 12:39 PM 08/19/12 12:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,045 Shelby Twp. Mi HardcoreB master
HardcoreB master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,045 Shelby Twp. Mi	Quote: MOLY LUBE ? Well I'm sorry to hear about these difficulties. Mike many of us are here to help if you need it, even morally. (As J. Belushi once said "Was it 'over' for us when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?") I am starting to wonder too if the dyno was screwed-up and that was moly lube in the crankcase...I once 'saved' a rebuild because of that near mistake.

Re: Another Whats the HP [Re: sleepyhead416] #1284992 08/19/12 01:11 PM 08/19/12 01:11 PM
Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 19,317 State of confusion T Thumperdart I Live Here
Thumperdart I Live Here T Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 19,317 State of confusion	Quote: MOLY LUBE ? Years ago when I ran my gear drive I moly lubed the hell out of that thing(too many `s)and that stuff was still there when I rebuilt it years later.............. 72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....

Re: Another Whats the HP [Re: emarine01] #1284993 08/19/12 02:28 PM 08/19/12 02:28 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY OP Master
MR_P_BODY OP Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Tri-metal, and I didnt use moly on the build... I cant really say how much material was there .. not a lot but more than I would expect to see... I wonder if it was a dyno thing but still the material was there... like I said more than I would have ever expected)... sorta hard to gauge the amount... I ordered up new bearings today plus I ordered cam bearings to install in another block to check if the cam and lifters will work in it... thats has stock oil gallies and IS 4.070 bore... lifter bores are .905 so it all measures good

Re: Another Whats the HP [Re: Performance Only] #1284994 08/19/12 05:16 PM 08/19/12 05:16 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 399 SouthEast Michigan P PETE@BESTMACHINE enthusiast
PETE@BESTMACHINE enthusiast P Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 399 SouthEast Michigan	What a story, Dan I think you are on to something, everybody that has had there hands in this thing is clueless. Not trying to start anything but wrong piston size, no oil ring drag and assembled anyway, rehoned with to much piston to wall, bearings are junk every time it comes apart and now it needs a sleeve. What a mess, Mike if you what it checked out give us a call, sometimes a different set of eyes might help. www.BestMachineRacing.com

Re: Another Whats the HP [Re: PETE@BESTMACHINE] #1284995 08/19/12 08:24 PM 08/19/12 08:24 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY OP Master
MR_P_BODY OP Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Thanks Pete... but I'm starting all over with the right bore... I'll just have to get it decked EDIT And Pete if you read it then you know it was me so no one had their hands in it... so there is no one to bash except for me Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 08/19/12 10:48 PM.

Re: Another Whats the HP [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1284996 08/20/12 09:35 AM 08/20/12 09:35 AM
Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 12,008 Finally a HUSKER again Moparnut426 I Live Here
Moparnut426 I Live Here Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 12,008 Finally a HUSKER again	Well Mike, just thinking out loud here, You know there was piston to wall scuffs, and there was one bad enough for yu to want to sleeve that hole, could the aluminum have come from there? I know its a long shot, but it could have, also did ya use ARP lube on the bolts? That has made a mess in my pan before, and it didnt take much. Just poking things around a bit.

Re: Another Whats the HP [Re: Moparnut426] #1284997 08/20/12 10:21 AM 08/20/12 10:21 AM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY OP Master
MR_P_BODY OP Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Quote: Well Mike, just thinking out loud here, You know there was piston to wall scuffs, and there was one bad enough for yu to want to sleeve that hole, could the aluminum have come from there? I know its a long shot, but it could have, also did ya use ARP lube on the bolts? That has made a mess in my pan before, and it didnt take much. Just poking things around a bit. The pistons were coated and the coating looked great so that wasnt it... I'm looking to use my other block which has the correct bore for the pistons then start over with it... I'll just transfer the guts into it but its gonna need to be decked... this engine was a error on my part to begin with... I should have grabbed this other block from the start and went with it

Re: Another Whats the HP [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1284998 08/20/12 10:27 AM 08/20/12 10:27 AM
Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 12,008 Finally a HUSKER again Moparnut426 I Live Here
Moparnut426 I Live Here Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 12,008 Finally a HUSKER again	Quote: Quote: Well Mike, just thinking out loud here, You know there was piston to wall scuffs, and there was one bad enough for yu to want to sleeve that hole, could the aluminum have come from there? I know its a long shot, but it could have, also did ya use ARP lube on the bolts? That has made a mess in my pan before, and it didnt take much. Just poking things around a bit. The pistons were coated and the coating looked great so that wasnt it... I'm looking to use my other block which has the correct bore for the pistons then start over with it... I'll just transfer the guts into it but its gonna need to be decked... this engine was a error on my part to begin with... I should have grabbed this other block from the start and went with it Been there dont that, I effed up on a simple 318 build and didnt get the oil galleys cleaned up good enough after I ball honed the lifter bores, there was more material in there than I thought and the rod/main bearings found it in a hurry. I was more embarrassed than mad.

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