The air gap between the end of the valve and the cam is originally around .200", over the years TransGo has recommended different settings but never under .125".

Going back to your first post I see you said someone added a part throttle kickdown. Did they use the old Direct connection part throttle conversion kit or did they just bolt on a part throttle module from a newer VB? I haven't tried it but from everything I've read you can't just bolt a part throttle module onto a older valve body and it work. Maybe someone else here has some input on it. If not I'd take the part throttle module off and look real close at things to see if it looks right.

One other thing. What year is this trans?

fishy68,
Not sure how to tell if the part throttle is from an original valve body or if it is an aftermarket direct connection part. I've attached a picture illustrating the parts associated with the part throttle. Mine is assembled and looks identical to this picture (i.e., no extra or fewer parts than those pictured).

the ID of the trans indicates it was originally in a 1969 383-2 barrel car...before part throttle kickdown was standard so I was surprised to see the part throttle kickdown equipment when I pulled the VB... so it was added at some time by someone. Again from my limited driving of the car before disassembly both full throttle and part throttle kickdown did not appear to work, but did do breakaway low and upshifted fine. Didn't know much then, but figured this was related to the external throttle pressure linkage being misadjusted.

Would appreciate any insight into the part throttle since I can deal with this now much easier with the valve body out. Anyone have an answer to the question of whether or not a later year part throttle kickdown assembly can be bolted up to an older VB and work? I found a post saying it does.

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...amp;Search=true

Also at this point would it be a good use of time to pull the tailshaft and check out the governor assembly? That was brought up earlier, but unsure how likely it is that that could be contributing to any of my issues?

Thanks for all the help provided so far.

my part throttle assembly is in lower left of this photo... not best photo, but I had it here at work with me.

That looks like the later PT module but I can't see all of it so I'm not 100% sure. I'm reading conflicting information on it. In the thread URL you posted John Kunkel posted they do interdchange and I know John has been around a lot longer than me doing 727's so I don't question his work usually but I see on A&A's website where they have a PT module that is made to bolt onto a Pre-70 valve body and they say you can't use a later PT module on an earlier VB. Here's a link to it

http://www.aandatrans.com/Products/727-3-2-Kick-Down-Module-(1966-69)__22740-32SI.aspx

One other posibility is someone didn't just bolt a PT module on your older VB, rather they installed a newer VB. Look on the main casting for a # and post it. I might be able to identify what year it is from.

The governor can definetly have a profound affect on when it shifts. I'd inspect it to make sure it moves freely and someone hasn't installed a real high RPM governor. The latter is unlikely but you never know with stuff that is over 40 yrs. old.

addendum: I just noticed in the pic that I see what looks like a spring inside of a spring for the pressure regulator. That's not factory. Do you know if it has had a shift kit installed? If so what brand?

I'll look for a part number on the VB when I get home tonight.

The PR valve does have a spring within a spring as that is part of the Transgo TF2 kit I just put in it.

Trans was upshifitng at lower RPM before I pulled apart at WOT (about 4400 rpm). From what I read that sounds about right (stock) as trans was from a 3838-2 bbl car. Was going to see if they increased after the TF2 and adjustments before considering changing the governor parts with weights from A&A, but now I will pull that apart to make sure things are moving freely there.

From my reading I thought the later PT kickdown will work on an earlier VB, but it just won't have the feature that downshifts (3 to 2) won't occur after about 40 mph... again I'll look for some casting/part numbers later today and post.

Thanks

I'm suspecting that its a later model valve body as well. Flip it over and there should be a two digit number as part of the casting, I believe it is circled or inside of a star. What does it say?

Assuming the VB is from 1972 based on the date pinwheel?

This have any bearing on the trans function (trans is a 69)?

Update. Got slowed down as my steering box went south and I sent it out to get rebuilt. To refresh put a tansgo TF2 in my 727 and added a 4.2 lever. trans was not upshifting from D normally after (very high RPM or had to lift off pedal).

What I did:
1) pulled VB and checked everything inside. throttle valve WAS assembled correctly. Made minor adjustment to the stop holding the throttle valve cam. Everything else appeared to be dead on with the transgo instructions.
2) readjusted both bands
3) pulled governor (all looked good)
4) tested servos

Result:
Still not upshifting in Drive. Disconnected the kickdown linkage and pulled the throttle valve lever full forward.... can take the car up to 4500+ rpm and no 1-2 upshift. These are not WOT runs, but have the accelerator depressed maybe 1/4 of the way. If I back way off throttle (take my foot off the gas) I can get it to upshift 1-2 and 2-3. Manual shifting does help (get upshifts, but may still be late but definitely at lower RPM). If in D and take it up to say 3k then downshift to 2 it 1-2 upshifts instantly.

What to do now? Getting very frustrated.

I suspect that your problem may go away if you swap in a known good VB. Right now between the VB being wrong(and who knows what the previous person did to it), the part throttle kickdown stuff, the shift kit, and grinding, bending, adjusting this and that there are too many things that could be wrong. I would try a different valve body in it and if it works then put the transgo stuff in it.

Just got off the phone with Transgo. They want me to see that governor pressure is increasing about 1 psi/mph of tire speed and to check the line pressure.

I don't have another valve body and don't have a pressure gauge. Since it looks like I will be buying something either way I go which approach seems best?

would a gauge like this be sufficient? would be nice if I could find something local that isn't $100. on-line sears one's i saw were pricey and not locally stocked. any gauge sets that can be used for engine compressor checkers as well. seems redundant to buy 2 separate one's

http://www.amazon.com/Advanced-ATD-5550-...d=II0W38PQU5I92

That gauge kit is perfect for what you need to do but any 0-100 gauge with a 1/8" NPT thread will work if you have the hose and fittings.

Did some testing.

My line pressure is 75 psi idling in Drive (throttle lever full forward)
125 psi idling in D (throttle lever full back). this seems to be right to me.

Governor pressure in D (wheels locked) 0 psi and pressure increases progressively as I accelerate (20 psi at 2000 rpm). rear wheels off the ground for these tests and i am having some speedo issues so don't have an accurate MPH. this seems normal to me.

also tested governor pressure with gear selector in 2 and it was 0 psi wheels locked and 10psi at 1000 rpm and 15 at 1500, and 20 at 2000.

here is the part I was unsure of when i put gear selector in 1 and checked governor pressure with wheels locked it was 25psi. as i spun the wheels the governor pressure appeared to increase normally, but was always higher since it was already 25 psi at standstill (i.e., it was 45 psi rolling at 1200 or so rpm?

do these governor pressure responses when in low gear indicate a problem? i thought with wheels locked it should always be 0 psi, but the FSM and munroe book always talk about governor pressure in D only... didn't know if the TF2 somehow routes some pressure there when in low?

Everything looks good except that governor pressure in low gear, definitely not right and suggests a crossflow somewhere (possibly at the 1-2 governor plug you ground). At this point I would try another valve body.

Put the TF2 parts in another valve body and all is good now.

Need to thank scratchnfotraction for generously supplying a good valve body and asking for nothing in return . Solid guy!

Guess may never know exactly why the last VB was causing the failure?

glad to hear you got it worked out.