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Re: Hemi vs Wedge
[Re: HPMike]
#1262738
08/03/12 08:25 AM
08/03/12 08:25 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,029
Trumbull,CT.
jim sciortino
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That would be Lane Carey's Stang you are talking about. Last I heard it was a 557 wedge eng based on the 429 CJ I believe. Very nice looking and running 71 Stang. Dave's eng was like 496 cubes I think ? Isn't Dave going to run Pure Stock with his new Hemi Super Bee ? Ron
Ron, Both Dudeks' and Carey motors are well into 500 inches. Dudeks is around 528", while Careys' is 588".
Dave D's motor is under 500 cubes. 496..
If Dudek's engine is 496ci and the Mustang is a 588ci BES deal, with what is probaby 15+ compression and a camshaft of epic proportions, including ALL the BES know-how throughout the rest of the assembly and he only has a tenth or so on the Roadrunner (and needs !!! AFTERMARKET !!! steering help to keep the car safe), maybe it's time to look into a max effort BOSS 429......just in case someone builds a HEMI with some current SS technology.
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Re: Hemi vs Wedge
[Re: jim sciortino]
#1262739
08/03/12 09:09 AM
08/03/12 09:09 AM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446
NJ-USA
HPMike
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NJ-USA
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Quote:
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That would be Lane Carey's Stang you are talking about. Last I heard it was a 557 wedge eng based on the 429 CJ I believe. Very nice looking and running 71 Stang. Dave's eng was like 496 cubes I think ? Isn't Dave going to run Pure Stock with his new Hemi Super Bee ? Ron
Ron, Both Dudeks' and Carey motors are well into 500 inches. Dudeks is around 528", while Careys' is 588".
Dave D's motor is under 500 cubes. 496..
If Dudek's engine is 496ci and the Mustang is a 588ci BES deal, with what is probaby 15+ compression and a camshaft of epic proportions, including ALL the BES know-how throughout the rest of the assembly and he only has a tenth or so on the Roadrunner (and needs !!!AFTERMARKET !!! steering help to keep the car safe), maybe it's time to look into a max effort BOSS 429......just in case someone builds a HEMI with some current SS technology.
You got it, Jim..
Supposedly the Barton built FAST Hemi put enough power on the dyno that everyone is going to get  ...Its a super high revving deal, too..Knowing what I know of Dave D's Hemi build it's surprisingly "low" tech. Credit to the Hemi's inherent design. He's even got a 440Source crank spinning in there  
MB
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Re: Hemi vs Wedge
[Re: HPMike]
#1262740
08/03/12 09:33 AM
08/03/12 09:33 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,029
Trumbull,CT.
jim sciortino
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Joined: Apr 2007
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Trumbull,CT.
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Quote:
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That would be Lane Carey's Stang you are talking about. Last I heard it was a 557 wedge eng based on the 429 CJ I believe. Very nice looking and running 71 Stang. Dave's eng was like 496 cubes I think ? Isn't Dave going to run Pure Stock with his new Hemi Super Bee ? Ron
Ron, Both Dudeks' and Carey motors are well into 500 inches. Dudeks is around 528", while Careys' is 588".
Dave D's motor is under 500 cubes. 496..
If Dudek's engine is 496ci and the Mustang is a 588ci BES deal, with what is probaby 15+ compression and a camshaft of epic proportions, including ALL the BES know-how throughout the rest of the assembly and he only has a tenth or so on the Roadrunner (and needs !!!AFTERMARKET !!! steering help to keep the car safe), maybe it's time to look into a max effort BOSS 429......just in case someone builds a HEMI with some current SS technology.
You got it, Jim..
Supposedly the Barton built FAST Hemi put enough power on the dyno that everyone is going to get ...Its a super high revving deal, too..Knowing what I know of Dave D's Hemi build it's surprisingly "low" tech. Credit to the Hemi's inherent design. He's even got a 440Source crank spinning in there
MB
That's what I hear, Mike......the Barton deal should be stout once it's dialed in.
Maybe BES can slip some "aftermarket" cylinder heads up there and spray paint em' "stock", to go with the "aftermarket" steering components that keep the ford from ending up on it's roof.
By the way, does anyone know the weight of these two cars??? I'd hate to think the ford is the same weight, or lighter and the ever-so-slight ET advantage rests in a few pounds when an almost SIX HUNDRED INCH BES powerplant resides between the framrails.
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Re: Hemi vs Wedge
[Re: HPMike]
#1262741
08/03/12 11:50 AM
08/03/12 11:50 AM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
HYPER8oSoNic
top fuel
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
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Quote:
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That would be Lane Carey's Stang you are talking about. Last I heard it was a 557 wedge eng based on the 429 CJ I believe. Very nice looking and running 71 Stang. Dave's eng was like 496 cubes I think ? Isn't Dave going to run Pure Stock with his new Hemi Super Bee ? Ron
Ron, Both Dudeks' and Carey motors are well into 500 inches. Dudeks is around 528", while Careys' is 588".
Dave D's motor is under 500 cubes. 496..
If Dudek's engine is 496ci and the Mustang is a 588ci BES deal, with what is probaby 15+ compression and a camshaft of epic proportions, including ALL the BES know-how throughout the rest of the assembly and he only has a tenth or so on the Roadrunner (and needs !!!AFTERMARKET !!! steering help to keep the car safe), maybe it's time to look into a max effort BOSS 429......just in case someone builds a HEMI with some current SS technology.
You got it, Jim..
Supposedly the Barton built FAST Hemi put enough power on the dyno that everyone is going to get ...Its a super high revving deal, too..Knowing what I know of Dave D's Hemi build it's surprisingly "low" tech. Credit to the Hemi's inherent design. He's even got a 440Source crank spinning in there
MB
Well, Mike the last 'bout that Dudek and Laney had, Dudeks motor was listed at about 528" HEMI. Laneys' motor CR is 14.7 to 1, 588" Ford BB. Dudek was in the 10.20's and BELOW with the 496 incher (and since the video shootout, he's in the nines). As far as a "new" motor for Dudek, I dunno about that at this time. And it isn't much for BES to build a FORD 588", just careful and SMART machining and attention to detail work. Laney did the final assembly. BES has built bigger motors than 588". Regardless, of who has the bigger or better motor, these two friends/rivals DO put on a GREAT showing! 
"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids"
"Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
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Re: Hemi vs Wedge
[Re: HYPER8oSoNic]
#1262742
08/03/12 01:19 PM
08/03/12 01:19 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,495
Shelby mi.
JAKE68
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,495
Shelby mi.
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Quote:
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That would be Lane Carey's Stang you are talking about. Last I heard it was a 557 wedge eng based on the 429 CJ I believe. Very nice looking and running 71 Stang. Dave's eng was like 496 cubes I think ? Isn't Dave going to run Pure Stock with his new Hemi Super Bee ? Ron
Ron, Both Dudeks' and Carey motors are well into 500 inches. Dudeks is around 528", while Careys' is 588".
Dave D's motor is under 500 cubes. 496..
If Dudek's engine is 496ci and the Mustang is a 588ci BES deal, with what is probaby 15+ compression and a camshaft of epic proportions, including ALL the BES know-how throughout the rest of the assembly and he only has a tenth or so on the Roadrunner (and needs !!!AFTERMARKET !!! steering help to keep the car safe), maybe it's time to look into a max effort BOSS 429......just in case someone builds a HEMI with some current SS technology.
You got it, Jim..
Supposedly the Barton built FAST Hemi put enough power on the dyno that everyone is going to get ...Its a super high revving deal, too..Knowing what I know of Dave D's Hemi build it's surprisingly "low" tech. Credit to the Hemi's inherent design. He's even got a 440Source crank spinning in there
MB
Well, Mike the last 'bout that Dudek and Laney had, Dudeks motor was listed at about 528" HEMI. Laneys' motor CR is 14.7 to 1, 588" Ford BB. Dudek was in the 10.20's and BELOW with the 496 incher (and since the video shootout, he's in the nines). As far as a "new" motor for Dudek, I dunno about that at this time. And it isn't much for BES to build a FORD 588", just careful and SMART machining and attention to detail work. Laney did the final assembly. BES has built bigger motors than 588". Regardless, of who has the bigger or better motor, these two friends/rivals DO put on a GREAT showing!
Daves motor is (was) 497. You will not see that car compete in fast again. A friend of mine bought the car and it has been detuned so he could drive and race it in dragweek. Daves new car will be at the mopar nats next weekend racing in purestock. As for the mustang I had heard that it was like 619cu.in.
Last edited by JAKE68; 08/03/12 01:21 PM.
JAKES AUTOMOTIVE
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Re: Hemi vs Wedge
[Re: HYPER8oSoNic]
#1262744
08/03/12 10:59 PM
08/03/12 10:59 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,495
Shelby mi.
JAKE68
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,495
Shelby mi.
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Actually they did that to correct bump steer . Personally I dont think that should been allowed because they could have corrected that without putting that kit on. We had to watch that and make corrections when we aligned Daves car. They also had an issue with the ram air air cleaner that wasnt stock. Dave brought it to their attention that it may not be in the spirit of the class!!!!! Also it was not allowed by the rules because the rules state stock suspension but issue just wasnt pushed at the time.
Last edited by JAKE68; 08/03/12 11:02 PM.
JAKES AUTOMOTIVE
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Re: Hemi vs Wedge
[Re: JAKE68]
#1262746
08/04/12 07:38 AM
08/04/12 07:38 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,029
Trumbull,CT.
jim sciortino
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Joined: Apr 2007
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Trumbull,CT.
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Quote:
Actually they did that to correct bump steer . Personally I dont think that should been allowed because they could have corrected that without putting that kit on. We had to watch that and make corrections when we aligned Daves car. They also had an issue with the ram air air cleaner that wasnt stock. Dave brought it to their attention that it may not be in the spirit of the class!!!!! Also it was not allowed by the rules because the rules state stock suspension but issue just wasnt pushed at the time.
Sounds to me like that big ole' Roadrunner with that undersized HEMI, is the quickest "legit" car.
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Re: Hemi vs Wedge
[Re: HYPER8oSoNic]
#1262748
08/04/12 01:45 PM
08/04/12 01:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
383man
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
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Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
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Ed Cooks sweet black 63 Maxie ran 10.30's in FAST last year and he said he is sure he will get in the 20's this year. Its great to see wedge in FAST only a few tenths behind the Hemi. And of course you all know I have a soft spot for 63 Max Wedge cars.  Ron
Last edited by 383man; 08/04/12 01:46 PM.
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Re: Hemi vs Wedge
[Re: HYPER8oSoNic]
#1262750
08/04/12 10:03 PM
08/04/12 10:03 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446
NJ-USA
HPMike
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Quote:
Dudeks' combo is a PROVEN setup since the "first"
Street HEMI came off the assembly line. One of the MOST popular Mopar platforms to build a GREAT street/strip ride or all out race car. Did a GREAT job of strengthing the weaknessess and enhancing it's strengths. Wonder how much FASTER it would have ran with a "Big Inch" wedge motor!! 
At least 3 tenths slower...See Ron's post...
MB
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Re: Hemi vs Wedge *DELETED*
[Re: HPMike]
#1262752
08/05/12 09:11 PM
08/05/12 09:11 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
HYPER8oSoNic
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Post deleted by HYPER8oSoNic
"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids"
"Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
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Re: Hemi vs Wedge
[Re: HYPER8oSoNic]
#1262753
08/05/12 09:37 PM
08/05/12 09:37 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446
NJ-USA
HPMike
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Quote:
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Quote:
Dudeks' combo is a PROVEN setup since the "first"
Street HEMI came off the assembly line. One of the MOST popular Mopar platforms to build a GREAT street/strip ride or all out race car. Did a GREAT job of strengthing the weaknessess and enhancing it's strengths. Wonder how much FASTER it would have ran with a "Big Inch" wedge motor!!
At least 3 tenths slower...See Ron's post...
MB
 3 tenths? Some "top-end" charge!!
If the wedge had WON, Mike you would have been    about an "unfair advantage" - Too many CUBES!!
Nope.
Id love nothing better than to see Ed's Maxie take everyone down, but thats a tall order. I think were pretty happy where we are at considering the 50 year old 286 heads on Ed's motor (which were ported to the hilt), flow robably LESS than a typical street hemi head that is untouched. I do have a radically different cam that I want to try on the dyno before the fall swing. The motor is at my shop now undergoing a freshen up...We'll see...
Oh, and speaking of wedges , watch out for the white Firebird. Im hearing that its got some more smoke and has already gone 10.20's or thereabouts. Oh the humanity!
MB
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Re: Hemi vs Wedge
[Re: XXHEMI]
#1262755
08/05/12 10:10 PM
08/05/12 10:10 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446
NJ-USA
HPMike
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Quote:
Mike,
I don't think that anyone with the exception of myself would have liked to see the wedge out run Dave's Hemi! Or even run with it?
The engine for the Maxie was just freshend up by Mike and I think I have found a little something in the car so maybe it will run a little faster this fall?
But there is no dought the Hemi just runs away from the Wedge upstairs.
Both where very close in power (within 10HP wedges advantage)?
Both cars weight the same?
Maxie runs 133 MPH and the Hemi 139MPH what am I missing???
Ed
Eddie
If you compare the two dyno sheets the answer lies there..
The Maxie makes its peak power relatively early then falls off pretty hard. The Hemi, on the other hand, makes its peak power at a higher RPM and really doesnt fall off. I'd be willing to bet Daves head flows 30% or better than the wedge head. Its all in the design and flow characteristics. Thats my .02 anyway....
MB
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Re: Hemi vs Wedge
[Re: HPMike]
#1262756
08/05/12 10:38 PM
08/05/12 10:38 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,160
Texas
dannysbee
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Texas
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Ed you must be forgetting about me. I am your biggest fan. I love your black Maxi. I would think with the displacment,cross section of the port combined with cross ram intake the torque curve is flat and broad. I would like to see how the car would do with a taller gear.
Getting old just means you were smarter than some and luckier than others.
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