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Re: Hemi vs Wedge
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#1262699
08/01/12 11:53 PM
08/01/12 11:53 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,028
Trumbull,CT.
jim sciortino
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Joined: Apr 2007
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Trumbull,CT.
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Quote:
Now you are going to have the GRUNGY racers joining this pissing contest. 
I'm just a street sap who minds his own beeswax, but if I'm gonna get called out, I have a nice connecter 2 miles away that I have no problem showing up at with my boxy Dart, complete with a mild smallblock, loaded with old discontinued factory hardware.
The time to trounce me is now, cuz the next engine won't be so mild.
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Re: Hemi vs Wedge
[Re: jim sciortino]
#1262700
08/02/12 02:43 AM
08/02/12 02:43 AM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,166
CT
GTX MATT
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CT
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Jim, is your dart the black 70 Dart with the (if I remember right) green tail stripe?
Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat
Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
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Re: Hemi vs Wedge
[Re: HYPER8oSoNic]
#1262702
08/02/12 08:59 AM
08/02/12 08:59 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,028
Trumbull,CT.
jim sciortino
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Joined: Apr 2007
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Now you are going to have the GRUNGY racers joining this pissing contest.
I'm just a street sap who minds his own beeswax, but if I'm gonna get called out, I have a nice connecter 2 miles away that I have no problem showing up at with my boxy Dart, complete with a mild smallblock, loaded with old discontinued factory hardware.
The time to trounce me is now, cuz the next engine won't be so mild. [/quote}
Umm...Jim, that's MY kinda racing!!  Old School at it's BEST!  Gotta keep 'em guessing. Something tells me that SB isn't too mild. 
Well......it's knida mild, compared to what's up next. 
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Re: Hemi vs Wedge
[Re: GTX MATT]
#1262703
08/02/12 09:00 AM
08/02/12 09:00 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,028
Trumbull,CT.
jim sciortino
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Joined: Apr 2007
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Trumbull,CT.
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Quote:
Jim, is your dart the black 70 Dart with the (if I remember right) green tail stripe?
Yeah.....that's the one.
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Re: Hemi vs Wedge
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#1262705
08/02/12 09:43 AM
08/02/12 09:43 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,028
Trumbull,CT.
jim sciortino
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Quote:
"I have $5499.99 invested in a lowly smallblock (wedge) MOPAR with factory heads, intake and block sitting in my barn door shaped 70' Dart, that I drive regularly on the street. Would you like to "line up w/me" with that.....for a few coins???
I don't care what you have as long as it's a registered, street driven car, on motor.
Is ya in???"
Sure I'll bring my heap... I guess my point is sure the Hemi is a better motor, but it's a more expensive motor. Today you have more financially practical options. If you are building a weekend warrior and looking to do it on a budget a wedge will do just fine. If you need to go really fast or like the WOW factor a Hemi is the way to go.
"Better" is a very subjective word.....one size doesn't fit all.
For some guys, the wedge is better and for others, the HEMI is. It's really no big deal in the grand scheme. My only point is, the HEMI has a higher ceiling....IMO.
Now, lemme know when you're comin' up.....I'll give ya directions to a real good spot. 
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Re: Hemi vs Wedge
[Re: jim sciortino]
#1262706
08/02/12 09:55 AM
08/02/12 09:55 AM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
HYPER8oSoNic
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Desert Tracker
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Hmmmmmm.....interesting retort.
My turn.....
1. I know a little about torque.....my HEMI has about 1200tq. Lo and behold, I haven't put it in a tree......yet.
2. You take an factory BBC iron head and factory block.....I'll take a factory iron HEMI head and block. Max effort engines and lets see which one has a higher ceiling. I know where my money will be.
3. Buick??? "Shirly" you jest??? I ain't talkin' bout some stock style "rules" class.....I'm taking about serious engines built for racing.
4. Reading is FUNdamental. Go back and re-read what I said and you'll see I was speaking of a REAL N/A deal, beyond a SS/AH build. A top of the hill SS HEMI makes 1000+. Do you not think without the restrictions of SS, it wouldn't make more??? A RAW Millennium head as the foundation, dry sump, "trick" crankshaft, light rods, piston guided rods, any piston/ring combination w/max vac, Ti valve, two dominators, etc. and development time. You don't believe that would approach 2.5???
5. The HEMI is surpassed by the chevy on the aftermarket food chain???  Not on my planet. Last I checked the top aftermarket HEMI engines were in the 10,000hp range....running 320+ to 1000ft. You do realize that an AJ, or BAE is aftermarket HEMI......do you not???
6. As far as fords go, they have the same support as chey does in the aftermarket. You can build a killer with either one. The stock ford big dog heads flowed like the Mississippi river on the intake side, (with slow airspeed)...which is where the "port plugs" and "port plates" came in handy, but a crushed garden hose on the exhaust side, in a number of instances. I've seen it on the bench. Can all these engines make power??? Sure they can.....I ain't here to poop on anyone's stuff.
Now for the good stuff.....
I don't care what happened in 1975 and I don't care that a HEMI cost more to build than a 440. We all know that. What we all should also know, is the HEMI has a higher ceiling than the wedge when both engines are topped out.
It would seem after reading the last sentence, that I've just been challenged to an acceleration contest, sooooooooo.......let me say this......
Unfortunately, I don't have 5500 clams in my HEMI engine. I have more than that in the PSI screw that sit atop it.
!!!BUT!!!
I have $5499.99 invested in a lowly smallblock (wedge) MOPAR with factory heads, intake and block sitting in my barn door shaped 70' Dart, that I drive regularly on the street. Would you like to "line up w/me" with that.....for a few coins???
I don't care what you have as long as it's a registered, street driven car, on motor.
Is ya in??? 
Two points I'll make here:
I don't think that I would be "STUPID" enough to run a 600+ "street driven" Maxie against a HEMI that has TWICE the HP! Ain't gonna happen!  I'll take my chances against Mikes' 12.5 to 1 comp HEMI Challenger. Running against a "HEMI" with a "aluminum lung" on top? You will be RUNNING
against YOURSELF!
And yes, the CHEVROLET and FORD engines DO surpass the HEMI, in the aftermarket. As the years
go by, NEW products come down the line for these two brands before any other! They have cornered the "mail order" parts system, as well as the auto part store inventory and their "respective" factory motorsports divisions. It's getting to the point, where, you spend a grand-and-a-half and can get a "top end" kit (less carbs) for them!! Try that with a HEMI.
And your #4 reply is NON-STREETABLE. 95% SS/A cars
are trailered, unless you are talking about a "as delivered" factory condition HEMI Super Stock car.
The other "5%", I reserve for the "super bold" owner/drivers who (have the HEART to)  run them on the street! Which SOME do!! 
And IMO, the Buick big block, HAS been and will
always be Mopars' NEMESIS  . The "few" and dedicated that DO run them (Buick racers) know that "rpm's" DO get the job done UPSTAIRS. BUT...heaping amounts of torque at a LOWER rpm, will get you "out-of-the-gate" FIRST and (majority of the time) the WIN!! 
"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids"
"Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
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Re: Hemi vs Wedge
[Re: jim sciortino]
#1262707
08/02/12 09:57 AM
08/02/12 09:57 AM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446
NJ-USA
HPMike
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NJ-USA
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Y'know. This debate got me to thinking.... I built a couple of the engines running in the FAST racing series. All wedges, . The Maxie that I did for Ed Cook made really good power. High 700's through the stock manifolds. Ed has run a best of 10.30 @134MPH. 1.56 60' on the G70 bias tires at a car weight with driver of around 3750. I've had it on the dyno countless times and can tell you when you compare his dyno sheet to Dave Dudek's Hemi engine the peak power of both engines really aren't that much apart, but Dave's engine keeps going when the Maxie is winding down. That really sums up the differences between the two engines (when looking at them from a factory standpoint anyway). Aftermarket heads change the whole equation. MB
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Re: Hemi vs Wedge
[Re: jim sciortino]
#1262708
08/02/12 10:00 AM
08/02/12 10:00 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
Quote:
"I have $5499.99 invested in a lowly smallblock (wedge) MOPAR with factory heads, intake and block sitting in my barn door shaped 70' Dart, that I drive regularly on the street. Would you like to "line up w/me" with that.....for a few coins???
I don't care what you have as long as it's a registered, street driven car, on motor.
Is ya in???"
Sure I'll bring my heap... I guess my point is sure the Hemi is a better motor, but it's a more expensive motor. Today you have more financially practical options. If you are building a weekend warrior and looking to do it on a budget a wedge will do just fine. If you need to go really fast or like the WOW factor a Hemi is the way to go.
"Better" is a very subjective word.....one size doesn't fit all.
For some guys, the wedge is better and for others, the HEMI is. It's really no big deal in the grand scheme. My only point is, the HEMI has a higher ceiling....IMO.
Now, lemme know when you're comin' up.....I'll give ya directions to a real good spot.
I'll have to hang an OD unit on my trans for that drive... or get on the "autotrain"
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Re: Hemi vs Wedge
[Re: HYPER8oSoNic]
#1262709
08/02/12 10:01 AM
08/02/12 10:01 AM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446
NJ-USA
HPMike
master
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master
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446
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Quote:
I don't think that I would be "STUPID" enough to run a 600+ "street driven" Maxie against a HEMI that has TWICE the HP! Ain't gonna happen! I'll take my chances against Mikes' 12.5 to 1 comp HEMI Challenger.
Put as much as was put into my Challenger into ANY of the motors you mentioned with a similar car weight and you'd be likely to get your azz handed to you.. Then or now. Maybe a 427 Vette might make some noise, but not much else.
MB
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Re: Hemi vs Wedge
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#1262710
08/02/12 10:04 AM
08/02/12 10:04 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,028
Trumbull,CT.
jim sciortino
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,028
Trumbull,CT.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
"I have $5499.99 invested in a lowly smallblock (wedge) MOPAR with factory heads, intake and block sitting in my barn door shaped 70' Dart, that I drive regularly on the street. Would you like to "line up w/me" with that.....for a few coins???
I don't care what you have as long as it's a registered, street driven car, on motor.
Is ya in???"
Sure I'll bring my heap... I guess my point is sure the Hemi is a better motor, but it's a more expensive motor. Today you have more financially practical options. If you are building a weekend warrior and looking to do it on a budget a wedge will do just fine. If you need to go really fast or like the WOW factor a Hemi is the way to go.
"Better" is a very subjective word.....one size doesn't fit all.
For some guys, the wedge is better and for others, the HEMI is. It's really no big deal in the grand scheme. My only point is, the HEMI has a higher ceiling....IMO.
Now, lemme know when you're comin' up.....I'll give ya directions to a real good spot.
I'll have to hang an OD unit on my trans for that drive... or get on the "autotrain"
So rent a Honda and come up for apizza.....I know a good "spot".
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Re: Hemi vs Wedge
[Re: HYPER8oSoNic]
#1262714
08/02/12 10:22 AM
08/02/12 10:22 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,028
Trumbull,CT.
jim sciortino
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,028
Trumbull,CT.
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Two points I'll make here: I don't think that I would be "STUPID" enough to run a 600+ "street driven" Maxie against a HEMI that has TWICE the HP! Ain't gonna happen! I'll take my chances against Mikes' 12.5 to 1 comp HEMI Challenger. Running against a "HEMI" with a "aluminum lung" on top? You will be RUNNING against YOURSELF!
Actually, it's 3 times the power, but who's counting......1200 is the tq number.
Besides, I was going to roll out my smallblock Dart out for this one. I'm selling my Cuda' to fund a good engine for my Dart and don't wanna abuse it.
And I agree that in the N/A world, the aftermarket has supported the ford and chevy engines to a faaaaaaar greater extent than the HEMI for obvious economic reasons.......but that's why we have screw blowers. It evens up the centuries of parts refinement and zillions spent in R & D making chevy and ford engines make real steam.
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Re: Hemi vs Wedge
[Re: HYPER8oSoNic]
#1262717
08/02/12 10:35 AM
08/02/12 10:35 AM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446
NJ-USA
HPMike
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NJ-USA
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I don't think that I would be "STUPID" enough to run a 600+ "street driven" Maxie against a HEMI that has TWICE the HP! Ain't gonna happen! I'll take my chances against Mikes' 12.5 to 1 comp HEMI Challenger.
Put as much as was put into my Challenger into ANY of the motors you mentioned with a similar car weight and you'd be likely to get your azz handed to you.. Then or now. Maybe a 427 Vette might make some noise, but not much else.
MB
Mike..don't slip a tire off the line. You may get your backside  I hope the "Roaster" works well for you!
Here is something else to ponder, while on the subject of brand X motors. I ran a 455 Pontiac in a Tempest in the early 80's. It was pretty high level for that time, SD rods, domes, Fully ported Nunzi prepped 722 round port(RAIV) heads, a Warrior intake, big Holley, etc. I wasn't a pimple on the asss of what my Challenger was running back then. And my car had way more, in terms of mods than my Challenger did at that time. And if I happened to miss a shift....  
MB
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with ya! The end result is that the HEMI
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