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They are both Mopar so I like them both. But I know the 63 Max Wedge cars were street legal as anyone could buy one. I honestly feel in stock trim the Max Wedge was the fastest Mopar street muscle car sold in the muscle car era. Sure the Hemi was a race eng and would kick but when setup right but on the street in stock form it was held back and the wedge carried the banner for Mopar on the street most of the time. You have to ask yourself.........how many Hemi's did you see on the street in the 60's ? A stock Maxie 62 Dart 413 went 13.44 @ 109 for M/T. Good mph for a stock eng in 1962. 426 Maxie in 63 ran 12.60's @ almost 112 mph with just the cutouts open and Atlas tires. The Hemi to me was like Fords Boss 429 as it was choked out in stock form but was the king of all race engines where it dominated. The wedge had its place in Mopar history for sure and even ran good when prepped out. I dont know if my 63 would go any faster with a Hemi equipped the same as my wedge and thats because of the good heads out there for the wedge today. And everyone knows how well the 440 six pack cars ran on the street. And the Hemi dominated the first 2 years of Pro Stock so much they had to restrict it so GM and Ford could catch up. Ron

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Well put, Ron.. and I agree..

Here is something else to think about.

My 71 Hemi Challenger was bought new by a guy with limited skills.

All he did was.

-Install headers.
-12.5:1 pitons.
-A Rat Roaster(unmodified)
-Carter Competition series carbs
-A Holley Red pump.
-A Racer Brown solid cam
-4.88 gears.

Car went 10.30's@134MPH. All stock suspension. Stock unmodded 4 speed, No spool. No headwork. Other than a big block Vette there probably isnt any musclecar that could go that fast with such relatively minor mods. Even ran the stock dual point distributor. No Chrysler wedge could do that, that I am aware of.

The Hemi really had it..

MB

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sorry but a a 12.5:1 440 w/ a good inatke and carb(s) would run just as well... That's more than just a few bolt ons and far from the hemi's "stock" build. I'd probably run less gear w/ a 440 thou

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They are both Mopar so I like them both. But I know the 63 Max Wedge cars were street legal as anyone could buy one. I honestly feel in stock trim the Max Wedge was the fastest Mopar street muscle car sold in the muscle car era. Sure the Hemi was a race eng and would kick but when setup right but on the street in stock form it was held back and the wedge carried the banner for Mopar on the street most of the time. You have to ask yourself.........how many Hemi's did you see on the street in the 60's ? A stock Maxie 62 Dart 413 went 13.44 @ 109 for M/T. Good mph for a stock eng in 1962. 426 Maxie in 63 ran 12.60's @ almost 112 mph with just the cutouts open and Atlas tires. The Hemi to me was like Fords Boss 429 as it was choked out in stock form but was the king of all race engines where it dominated. The wedge had its place in Mopar history for sure and even ran good when prepped out. I dont know if my 63 would go any faster with a Hemi equipped the same as my wedge and thats because of the good heads out there for the wedge today. And everyone knows how well the 440 six pack cars ran on the street. And the Hemi dominated the first 2 years of Pro Stock so much they had to restrict it so GM and Ford could catch up. Ron

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Well put, Ron.. and I agree..

Here is something else to think about.

My 71 Hemi Challenger was bought new by a guy with limited skills.

All he did was.

-Install headers.
-12.5:1 pitons.
-A Rat Roaster(unmodified)
-Carter Competition series carbs
-A Holley Red pump.
-A Racer Brown solid cam
-4.88 gears.

Car went 10.30's@134MPH. All stock suspension. Stock unmodded 4 speed, No spool. No headwork. Other than a big block Vette there probably isnt any musclecar that could go that fast with such relatively minor mods. Even ran the stock dual point distributor. No Chrysler wedge could do that, that I am aware of.

The Hemi really had it..

MB

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sorry but a a 12.5:1 440 w/ a good inatke and carb(s) would run just as well... That's more than just a few bolt ons and far from the hemi's "stock" build. I'd probably run less gear w/ a 440 thou

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OK...So with your theory.

Take a stock full bodied 3,600# 440 Challenger with a non tricked stock 4 speed.

Put 12.5:1 pistons
A set of headers.
Lets say a Torker intake.
An electric fuel pump.
A solid cam with mid 70's technology, like the Racer Brown.
An Edelbrock carb(just because the Competition Series Carters were just fancy versions of the original AFB's and were of the exact same design).
Any gears you want.
Dual point distributor.
100% stock suspension.
Untouched 906 heads and the stock valvetrain.

With that recipe you are saying you would run 10.30's at 134?? Lets not forget, this was done in 1975 with just a regular guy building/tuning the car, not some guru....

MB

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Wedge racer and driver...by choice! always have been, always will be. I have no problem with the Hemi, it's a fine engine, just not impressed with Hemi owners who think everyone should bow down and ooh and aah over their car because they have an engine that other people have done amazing things with.

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They are both Mopar so I like them both. But I know the 63 Max Wedge cars were street legal as anyone could buy one. I honestly feel in stock trim the Max Wedge was the fastest Mopar street muscle car sold in the muscle car era. Sure the Hemi was a race eng and would kick but when setup right but on the street in stock form it was held back and the wedge carried the banner for Mopar on the street most of the time. You have to ask yourself.........how many Hemi's did you see on the street in the 60's ? A stock Maxie 62 Dart 413 went 13.44 @ 109 for M/T. Good mph for a stock eng in 1962. 426 Maxie in 63 ran 12.60's @ almost 112 mph with just the cutouts open and Atlas tires. The Hemi to me was like Fords Boss 429 as it was choked out in stock form but was the king of all race engines where it dominated. The wedge had its place in Mopar history for sure and even ran good when prepped out. I dont know if my 63 would go any faster with a Hemi equipped the same as my wedge and thats because of the good heads out there for the wedge today. And everyone knows how well the 440 six pack cars ran on the street. And the Hemi dominated the first 2 years of Pro Stock so much they had to restrict it so GM and Ford could catch up. Ron

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Well put, Ron.. and I agree..

Here is something else to think about.

My 71 Hemi Challenger was bought new by a guy with limited skills.

All he did was.

-Install headers.
-12.5:1 pitons.
-A Rat Roaster(unmodified)
-Carter Competition series carbs
-A Holley Red pump.
-A Racer Brown solid cam
-4.88 gears.

Car went 10.30's@134MPH. All stock suspension. Stock unmodded 4 speed, No spool. No headwork. Other than a big block Vette there probably isnt any musclecar that could go that fast with such relatively minor mods. Even ran the stock dual point distributor. No Chrysler wedge could do that, that I am aware of.

The Hemi really had it..

MB

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sorry but a a 12.5:1 440 w/ a good inatke and carb(s) would run just as well... That's more than just a few bolt ons and far from the hemi's "stock" build. I'd probably run less gear w/ a 440 thou

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OK...So with your theory.

Take a stock full bodied 3,600# 440 Challenger with a non tricked stock 4 speed.

Put 12.5:1 pistons
A set of headers.
Lets say a Torker intake.
An electric fuel pump.
A solid cam with mid 70's technology, like the Racer Brown.
An Edelbrock carb(just because the Competition Series Carters were just fancy versions of the original AFB's and were of the exact same design).
Any gears you want.
Dual point distributor.
100% stock suspension.
Untouched 906 heads and the stock valvetrain.

With that recipe you are saying you would run 10.30's at 134?? Lets not forget, this was done in 1975 with just a regular guy building/tuning the car, not some guru....

MB

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They are both Mopar so I like them both. But I know the 63 Max Wedge cars were street legal as anyone could buy one. I honestly feel in stock trim the Max Wedge was the fastest Mopar street muscle car sold in the muscle car era. Sure the Hemi was a race eng and would kick but when setup right but on the street in stock form it was held back and the wedge carried the banner for Mopar on the street most of the time. You have to ask yourself.........how many Hemi's did you see on the street in the 60's ? A stock Maxie 62 Dart 413 went 13.44 @ 109 for M/T. Good mph for a stock eng in 1962. 426 Maxie in 63 ran 12.60's @ almost 112 mph with just the cutouts open and Atlas tires. The Hemi to me was like Fords Boss 429 as it was choked out in stock form but was the king of all race engines where it dominated. The wedge had its place in Mopar history for sure and even ran good when prepped out. I dont know if my 63 would go any faster with a Hemi equipped the same as my wedge and thats because of the good heads out there for the wedge today. And everyone knows how well the 440 six pack cars ran on the street. And the Hemi dominated the first 2 years of Pro Stock so much they had to restrict it so GM and Ford could catch up. Ron

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Well put, Ron.. and I agree..

Here is something else to think about.

My 71 Hemi Challenger was bought new by a guy with limited skills.

All he did was.

-Install headers.
-12.5:1 pitons.
-A Rat Roaster(unmodified)
-Carter Competition series carbs
-A Holley Red pump.
-A Racer Brown solid cam
-4.88 gears.

Car went 10.30's@134MPH. All stock suspension. Stock unmodded 4 speed, No spool. No headwork. Other than a big block Vette there probably isnt any musclecar that could go that fast with such relatively minor mods. Even ran the stock dual point distributor. No Chrysler wedge could do that, that I am aware of.

The Hemi really had it..

MB

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sorry but a a 12.5:1 440 w/ a good inatke and carb(s) would run just as well... That's more than just a few bolt ons and far from the hemi's "stock" build. I'd probably run less gear w/ a 440 thou

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OK...So with your theory.

Take a stock full bodied 3,600# 440 Challenger with a non tricked stock 4 speed.

Put 12.5:1 pistons
A set of headers.
Lets say a Torker intake.
An electric fuel pump.
A solid cam with mid 70's technology, like the Racer Brown.
An Edelbrock carb(just because the Competition Series Carters were just fancy versions of the original AFB's and were of the exact same design).
Any gears you want.
Dual point distributor.
100% stock suspension.
Untouched 906 heads and the stock valvetrain.

With that recipe you are saying you would run 10.30's at 134?? Lets not forget, this was done in 1975 with just a regular guy building/tuning the car, not some guru....

MB

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So you get 2 carbs and I'm stuck w/ one pitiful carter? How about a short Ram w/ 2 holleys or a factory 6-pack? Probably do at least a home port job on the heads and run old isky rockers...I mean you're tearing the motor apart anyway right. My main point was your hemi was not stock. And the wedge might not be at 10.30 but It wouldn't be too far behind. Remember it doesn't need to see 7000rpm.

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Who said the Hemi was stock??

But my comparison is "apples to apples". The hemi comes from the factory with two carbs, so you arent adding anything. Add carbs to your wedge and you are. All I am trying to illustrate is that you arent going to get nearly as far with the equivalent work on a wedge as you would a Hemi. Period. And when you start really turning up the heat, then the wedge really gets left behind. The wedge then needs serious aftermarket parts. There is a reason these cars got their own classification in Super Stock. It was otherwise an unfair advantage to anything else. And the wedge is actually a "bigger" engine technically speaking.



MB

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Stock heads would hold the wedge back for sure. We have very good aftermarket and MP wedge heads but you cant consider it stock anymore once you put Indy's or Eddy heads on a 440. You have to add a good head to the wedge to try and stay even close to the Hemi. Ron

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Great points, Ron!! But...there IS enough
factory and aftermarket performance goodies for the wedge to "do battle" with the HEMI. Biggest problem is not the power, nor the breathing capabilities as much as everyone believes. It's the engine reliability and hi-rpm potential. The wedge is bit behind in both areas. The HEMI heads are simply "free-breathers" at higher rpms, netting MORE hp than the wedge. Not to say the wedge cannot attain high levels of hp, they simply do it at a lower rpm level than the HEMI. That's why I believe the wedges NEED the added preventative measures and parts (precise lower end clearances, billet/steel main bearing caps, main bearing/block girdles, cross-bolted
main cap engine blocks), to complete with the HEMI
and it's reliability/power output. Again, simply put (and without insult to ANYONE), wedges (max or
not) RULE the 8.90's (oops SS wedges are near 8.60-8.50 now?)and slower brackets and classes, while the HEMIS dominate everything else. Except the STREETS, where the CROWN can go to either motor, if it's fair. But..who knows what IS fair!!

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They are both Mopar so I like them both. But I know the 63 Max Wedge cars were street legal as anyone could buy one. I honestly feel in stock trim the Max Wedge was the fastest Mopar street muscle car sold in the muscle car era. Sure the Hemi was a race eng and would kick but when setup right but on the street in stock form it was held back and the wedge carried the banner for Mopar on the street most of the time. You have to ask yourself.........how many Hemi's did you see on the street in the 60's ? A stock Maxie 62 Dart 413 went 13.44 @ 109 for M/T. Good mph for a stock eng in 1962. 426 Maxie in 63 ran 12.60's @ almost 112 mph with just the cutouts open and Atlas tires. The Hemi to me was like Fords Boss 429 as it was choked out in stock form but was the king of all race engines where it dominated. The wedge had its place in Mopar history for sure and even ran good when prepped out. I dont know if my 63 would go any faster with a Hemi equipped the same as my wedge and thats because of the good heads out there for the wedge today. And everyone knows how well the 440 six pack cars ran on the street. And the Hemi dominated the first 2 years of Pro Stock so much they had to restrict it so GM and Ford could catch up. Ron

---

Well put, Ron.. and I agree..

Here is something else to think about.

My 71 Hemi Challenger was bought new by a guy with limited skills.

All he did was.

-Install headers.
-12.5:1 pitons.
-A Rat Roaster(unmodified)
-Carter Competition series carbs
-A Holley Red pump.
-A Racer Brown solid cam
-4.88 gears.

Car went 10.30's@134MPH. All stock suspension. Stock unmodded 4 speed, No spool. No headwork. Other than a big block Vette there probably isnt any musclecar that could go that fast with such relatively minor mods. Even ran the stock dual point distributor. No Chrysler wedge could do that, that I am aware of.

The Hemi really had it..

MB

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Mike, all that your friend did was "UNCORK" the power output of the HEMI. It (Street Hemi) was ALREADY fortified and de-tuned (set up for lesser
power output) for street use from the factory. Compared to a 440 6 pack and 4-bbl Magnum motors it's a production "race piece" for the street, along with the Stage I 413, Stage II 413/426 and the legendary Stage III 426
MaxWedge motor (dubbed:"The Orange Monster") and the ACTUAL 426 Race HEMI of '64. Umm..Hemi power
pulling through a (now vintage) Rat Roaster intake to a 4speed and 4.88 gears on stock HEMI springs, no snubber. Any problems off the line hooking up?

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If'n it was gonna be a wedge, I'd have to go with Jim Hale, or Dan Dvorak...

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I like the fact that you are trying to compare a wedge to a hemi

two diffrent motors

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