F.A.S.T. 906 head
#1258935
06/28/12 06:54 PM
06/28/12 06:54 PM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 559
Idaho
LaRoy Engines
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 559
Idaho
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There has been some skepticism on the flows claimed out of 906 our heads. I'm willing to put up some proof. For a qualified big block F.A.S.T. competitor that thinks they could use a better 906 head, here is what I will do, I will supply a pair of heads to test. I will not ship them to you, I will deliver them. Please understand, I am on a limited budget and live in Idaho, traveling to the East coast is probably out of the question.
Put your engine on the track or dyno (engine or chassis), run it and then pull the heads. I will drop our heads on your engine and you can run it again and see what happens. If you don't like the results, we'll box them up and go home.
I don't have any maximum effort heads ready at this time, but the ones I do have are stock gasket port windows and flow, 292 cfm @ .500", 323 cfm @ .600" and 332 cfm @ .700". Whereas a box stock Edelbrock Victor on our bench flows, 277 @ .500", 305 cfm @ .600", 324 cfm @ .700".
Just putting out the offer to see if there is any interest.
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Re: F.A.S.T. 906 head
[Re: LaRoy Engines]
#1258936
06/28/12 07:40 PM
06/28/12 07:40 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446
NJ-USA
HPMike
master
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master
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446
NJ-USA
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Quote:
There has been some skepticism on the flows claimed out of 906 our heads. I'm willing to put up some proof. For a qualified big block F.A.S.T. competitor that thinks they could use a better 906 head, here is what I will do, I will supply a pair of heads to test. I will not ship them to you, I will deliver them. Please understand, I am on a limited budget and live in Idaho, traveling to the East coast is probably out of the question.
Put your engine on the track or dyno (engine or chassis), run it and then pull the heads. I will drop our heads on your engine and you can run it again and see what happens. If you don't like the results, we'll box them up and go home.
I don't have any maximum effort heads ready at this time, but the ones I do have are stock gasket port windows and flow, 292 cfm @ .500", 323 cfm @ .600" and 332 cfm @ .700". Whereas a box stock Edelbrock Victor on our bench flows, 277 @ .500", 305 cfm @ .600", 324 cfm @ .700".
Just putting out the offer to see if there is any interest.
I built several FAST wedges. Dwayne Porter and Jeff from MCH did the heads. Had good results from both guys  .. Im sure Dwayne would love to put a set of those on his bench.. What bench are you getting these numbers from? Also, big numbers at those valve lifts might not gain anything in the real world. The intake/exhaust manifolds have a lot to be desired(as I am sure you are aware). They arent the worst of the muscle era, but there are a lot better out there..
Either way , its a good offer and Id love to test them out. If no one takes you up on ot, I might have something that will give you some real world data.
Oh, and one other thing-and this is very important. We've had lots of problems with cracks. Mopar big wedge heads were prone to crack-even stock, so you can imagine how much this problem gets magnified once you turn up the wick. I certainly dont wish it on you, but dont be surprised if they crack right on the dyno after the first few power pulls. Its a real pain in the asss...
Good Luck
MB
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Re: F.A.S.T. 906 head
[Re: LaRoy Engines]
#1258937
06/28/12 07:46 PM
06/28/12 07:46 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,103
Phila Pa
scatpacktom
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,103
Phila Pa
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Jim,
I don't know if this is directed at me or not but here is how I feel about it... I am skeptical about the numbers you claim and for good reason. We have been at this for alot of years now and of course we are a small group of Idiots that all talk to each other. At this stage of the game we think we know what a 906 head can flow and more importantly what they can flow and last longer than the weekend. As we have found out they are "FRAGILE" when they go to the outer limits. It is my belief that some of the best head porters in the country have had a crack at it. They have all produced similar results. So to be brutaly honest when a guy comes along with huge numbers, like 40 cfm more than some of the best FAST heads on the planet I just don't buy it.
I appreciate the fact that you want to "track test" your heads against some known factors. We all know you can't race flow benches and dynos. I believe that is the only way to do it, but I myself would feel more comfortable if they were flowed on a "known factor" first. Dwayne Porter has done at least 4 sets of wedge heads for me personaly. I wouldn't consider putting down a cold drink to tear to top of my engine off at the track in the heat till I had some indicator they might be better. I realize just about nobody in your business would send their best product to a competitor for analysis.
Another thing would be if you thought the heads were to cost what you quoted me I would get 2 pairs of Hemi heads done top to bottom. I mean no disrespect Jim this is just how it is for me.
Last edited by scatpacktom; 06/28/12 07:48 PM.
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Re: F.A.S.T. 906 head
[Re: dennismopar73]
#1258943
06/29/12 01:25 PM
06/29/12 01:25 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,732
Watertown, WI
MikeyT
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,732
Watertown, WI
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Ok, so for us not porter guys. Maybe this is a real dumb question, but what area becomes brittle? How much are you hogging out to cause them to crack?
I too would be interested in seeing Dwayne, look at them to see what his thoughtare on these heads.
mike
1969 Dodge Dart Swinger
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Re: F.A.S.T. 906 head
[Re: MikeyT]
#1258944
06/29/12 01:44 PM
06/29/12 01:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,103
Phila Pa
scatpacktom
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,103
Phila Pa
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I'm not sure the most common crack comes from porting, but more from the abuse of racing. Big block heads in general are known to bust right below the two center exhaust ports. I think by the time these heads reach 40 years old, have been milled, slapped on a engine with high compression AND a full exhaust system their chance of making it to 50 years old is not good. Not to mention the compression is trying to lift the heads off the block and the combustion chambers themselves are oil canning. Its a hard life and they bust plain and simple. Let alone all the places that get thinner from the porting.
Last edited by scatpacktom; 06/29/12 01:46 PM.
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Re: F.A.S.T. 906 head
[Re: scatpacktom]
#1258945
06/29/12 01:50 PM
06/29/12 01:50 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,732
Watertown, WI
MikeyT
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,732
Watertown, WI
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Thanks Tom for the explanation. I thought maybe the increased porting was the cause, but it sounds like metal fatigue is just as big a culprit.
mike
1969 Dodge Dart Swinger
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Re: F.A.S.T. 906 head
[Re: MikeyT]
#1258946
06/29/12 03:41 PM
06/29/12 03:41 PM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 559
Idaho
LaRoy Engines
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 559
Idaho
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Quote:
Ok, so for us not porter guys. Maybe this is a real dumb question, but what area becomes brittle? How much are you hogging out to cause them to crack?
I too would be interested in seeing Dwayne, look at them to see what his thoughtare on these heads.
mike
I think you're right, Dwayne would be willing to test them.
We did a set of brand X heads a while back, handed them to a builder, told him these don't get passed around, try them on his engine. Wasn't long and an employee was flow testing them on their bench and trying to duplicate them. The little worker bee even asked us what to do because his heads looked just like ours and yet he was 30 cfm behind.
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Re: F.A.S.T. 906 head
[Re: XXHEMI]
#1258948
06/29/12 10:22 PM
06/29/12 10:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,494
So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,494
So. Burlington, Vt.
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Quote:
How many cfm should it take to make 730 HP with a good engine?
i'll post some flow numbers and HP numbers, and you can tell me how many cfm it takes to make 730hp.
268cfm ported factory heads, made about 625hp through exhaust manifolds using an iron dual plane intake and a Q-jet carb.
a set of oe iron heads, ported by what i would refer to as a nationaly recognized top tier engine shop, flowed just over 300cfm on my bench.
the motor got built and dyno tested.....made about 720hp through exhaust manifolds and an unmodified intake manifold.
after some track time, the engine got pulled and shipped to the same top tier engine builder that did the heads.
re-dyno tested to confirm the previous dyno results.
the previous results were verified.
the intake got replaced with one that had been extensively modified and the engine re-run with the new intake......to the tune of a bit over 800hp.
still with exhaust manifolds.
a set of 906's i ported that flowed around 287cfm, on a FAST 526ci 6bbl motor with a manifold friendly cam made 625hp through exhaust manifolds and 2.5" pipe.
i have to believe that if that motor had a set of good headers on it, and then a typical bracket type roller cam, single plane intake and dominator carb, it would have made close to 700hp, and probably over 700hp with a M1 TR and 2X750 carbs on it.
the other side of the argument is from your viewpoint....
the only flow numbers i really care about are the ones from my bench.
if i get a head and its supposed to flow say 375cfm, and i only get 360cfm out of it, then in my world.....its a 360cfm head.
(so, in your world, those 906's flow 335cfm....which is really all that matters to you)
i'm also of the mind set that you should "never say never" when you see some sort of engine performance parameter that you feel is questionable.
however, in my mind......it remains as just that for me, until a time comes when i would get a chance to "see it for myself".
i'm the say way with dyno results.
also, i have no desire to try and duplicate your efforts on a 906 head, and can say with confidence i wont be doing any 906's that require anything even remotely close to 120hrs of labor in them.
feel free to claim that market for your own.
Quote:
What is 30 cfm worth if no one else can do it?
its worth the same as everything else......whatever someone is willing to pay for it.
i would think the highly modified OE BB Mopar head market, for classes with "open rules", is going to be pretty limited, which would tend to make me think there isnt going to be too many people looking for that type of product.
but, as you say......you never planned on building heads like that for customers anyway.
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Re: F.A.S.T. 906 head
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#1258949
06/29/12 10:49 PM
06/29/12 10:49 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,494
So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,494
So. Burlington, Vt.
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262cfm 906's, .040 over 440, 9.7cr, 259/264 roller cam, modified Holley SD intake, 9375 carb, 2" hooker headers.
BTW.....that was in 1995.
i wonder what it would have made with 13.4cr and an M1 TR and 2X 750 carbs on it?? maybe a little more cam??
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: F.A.S.T. 906 head
[Re: LaRoy Engines]
#1258951
06/30/12 07:40 PM
06/30/12 07:40 PM
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 42
Sweden
ppmracing
member
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member
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 42
Sweden
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What are the rules for this 906 heads,,?? Valve size,,, runner volume,,, external modification,,, ??.
We work on NHRA Super stock cylinder heads, is it the same rules?
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Re: F.A.S.T. 906 head
[Re: ppmracing]
#1258952
06/30/12 08:15 PM
06/30/12 08:15 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446
NJ-USA
HPMike
master
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master
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446
NJ-USA
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Quote:
What are the rules for this 906 heads,,?? Valve size,,, runner volume,,, external modification,,, ??.
We work on NHRA Super stock cylinder heads, is it the same rules?
Must be original castings-no external mods...Pretty much everything else is fair game. Runner size, port volume, combustion chamber size and configuration, valve size, rocker type, etc all can be whatever works. No valve cover spacers. Must retain stock covers.
MB
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Re: F.A.S.T. 906 head
[Re: ppmracing]
#1258953
07/01/12 03:25 PM
07/01/12 03:25 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 952
Stockholm, Sweden
MrSixpack
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 952
Stockholm, Sweden
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PPM did my new engine and all I can say, I'm impressed what you can do and still be within the rules (NHRA Super Stock)
We have to use 2.08 and 1.74 valves and stock size runners, they flow MUCH I'll tell you.
But Peter will decide if he want to share the numbers.
During my 15 years of using 906 heads, none has ever cracked.
Last edited by MrSixpack; 07/01/12 03:27 PM.
1970 Super Stock Challenger ex. Paul Rossi
1968 Dodge Dart GT 340
1968 Dodge Charger /6 3 speed manual
1966 Chrysler 300 Loaded
1968 Dodge Charger R/T 440
1968 Mini Cooper
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