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Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1242573
05/31/12 09:47 AM
05/31/12 09:47 AM
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tboomer Offline
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On the damper...Use some paint or fingernail polish on the timing mark....Lots easier to see!!


Need your rear end checked out? Contact Grizzly!!
Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! [Re: knyech1] #1242574
05/31/12 09:52 AM
05/31/12 09:52 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 164
Savannah, GA
mopar400 Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

What cam is in the thing? That will be the biggest factor in idle quality.

Also, how is the timing? Initial and total.

Could be mechanical interference somewhere. Disconnect the throttle cable and see if it resets.




The cam is a solid flat tappet .540 [Email]242deg@.050[/Email] installed at 104deg

Would love to hear the engine actually idle with it. I tried to set the timing as best I could but with the rpms so fast I can't really read it. Any suggestions?

I will disconnect the cable tomorrow and see if that helps.




I had a similar issue with my car. I ended up having to set initial timing at 18 Deg. w/ 35* total. All in by 2500 RPM and get a carb setup with 4 corner idling. I also started out with a 850 carb with only primary idle mixture screws and a dist with factory advance curve. I believe the carb was my biggest cause of the idle problems. The carb is probably not setup for that large of a camshaft. The idle vacuum is low and provides a weak signal to the idle circuit. With only front mixture adjustment and not being able to change out the air bleeds it will be almost impossible to dial it in. I would start by taking the carb off and baselining the throttle plates. There is a good video in tech section on www.4secondsflat.com. When I looked earlier the website was down. Also, look down in the carb with engine at idle and make sure the boosters aren't dripping fuel. Good luck!

EDIT: I just noticed you have proform main body. You may end up needing a rear metering plate with mixture scews and adjusting air bleeds for your combo.

Last edited by mopar400; 05/31/12 10:12 AM.
Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! [Re: knyech1] #1242575
05/31/12 10:29 AM
05/31/12 10:29 AM
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NEW HAMPSHIRE AND MAINE
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BIGSTROKER Offline
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all that stuff and make sure the power valve is correct should be 1/2 the vac in inchs

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! [Re: tboomer] #1242576
05/31/12 01:21 PM
05/31/12 01:21 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,271
Overpriced Housing Central
RobX4406 Offline
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Quote:

On the damper...Use some paint or fingernail polish on the timing mark....Lots easier to see!!




Exactly

I'd put a mark at 15 and 30BTDC or 20 and 40BTDC so you can see it clearly. Even a sharpie will work.

I WOULD NOT set it using total timimg method at this point if you are trying to sort out the idle. If that distributor has 28 degrees of mechanical advance in it. You're gonna be screwed trying to get a good idle because if you total time it at 35* you'll only have about 7* initial.. NOT GOOD!

Make sure the float levels are set properly as well.

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1242577
05/31/12 01:24 PM
05/31/12 01:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247
Mt. Vernon, Ohio
dartman366 Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Should be able to idle that down to the 950-1000 range if everything is right.

I'll say I'd put about 20-22 initial timing on it. That's where my 340 with a 528 mechanical wanted it.




Rebel and RobX, I am not sure how to set initial timing I guess. I thought initial timing had to be set below 1,000rpm and above that your distributor started to advance...I guess I may be wrong. If I am I could tell you what I have it set at tomorrow probably. IIRC I tried to set it at 23deg.




As long as it's not bleeding in mechanical advance at idle, you're setting initial. Don't worry about total at this point. Not sure why you are having trouble seeing it. Pretty easy unless you have a chrome damper or no marks to reference.

23 initial, if correct, is a decent starting point for that set up IMO.

If using a stock damper, hillbilly timing tape it.






Its a nice shiny SFI damper from Summit and it is kind of difficult to read. I will do it in the garage this afternoon and see what it says.

dartman366, how high do I need to have the rpms to make sure I am reading total timing and what should that number be?

10 o to go, my distributor is a factory electronic with vacuum advance, BUT I have the vacuum line blocked off.
When I rev it up it comes right back to 1,400rpm




Get it up to 3000rpm to set the total timing...34*
should be close for testing... then you can tweek
it in on the track.... if it drops right back to 1400
it sounds like its a mech issue... check the secondary
screw to see if its too high.... IF you want to pull
the carb off to set the transfer slot you can...
once its off flip it over(gas will pour out) and
look at the slot at the throttle blades....set the
throttle so that the slot makes a square hole...
if the blades are open too far you are past the idle
circuit so the idle mixture screws wont have any
effect... so get it down on the idle then mess with
the mixture and idle set screw...... you said that
the throttle cable has some slack so that MOST LIKELY
isnt the issue... check the secondary screw... timing
comes first though... then the carb



Mike you treed me, just talked to a fellow who had the same issue with a 950 and it ended up being the idle screw for the secondarys, mis adjusted and held the throttle plates open just a little too far, hopefully thats all it is, but Mike is correct.


Light travels faster than the speed of sound,,,this is why some people seem bright untill you hear them speak.
Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! [Re: knyech1] #1242578
05/31/12 02:25 PM
05/31/12 02:25 PM
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Ontario, Canada
Dodgem Offline
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Wrap some masking tape around harmonic temporarily so you can see plus you can mark places you want like if you want 15 in gear idle and 36 total and such and then remove after easy peasy cause flashback sucks!


Last edited by Dodgem; 05/31/12 02:27 PM.
Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! [Re: Dodgem] #1242579
05/31/12 03:14 PM
05/31/12 03:14 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,300
Northern Indiana
Dunnuck Racing Offline
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Northern Indiana
Jeremy,
Back in the old days ( I know you are pretty young compared to some of us),Holley carburetors only had mixture screws on the primary metering block. Later on they went to 4 corner idle mixture settings.
When swithcing to a Proform main body(at least back when this one was done) they tell you which idle air bleed to use for the rear depending on if you have 2 corner idle mixture or 4.
Yours has all this done. It ran well on a 10.80 440 and a 11.80 360 street car so I know it will work for you.
When you freshened the carb,there is a chance you may have something misaligned so the throttle plates are hanging up. Like I told you in the P.M.,send it to me and I will dial it back in for you. If you are afraid you won't get it back in time,I will send you a safely tuned HP950 to use for Monster Mopar and then you can trade me back later.
This 950 is the small bore Holley made one that has the same venturi size as an older 750 so it should work well for you. Let me know if I can help.

Keith

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! [Re: Dunnuck Racing] #1242580
05/31/12 03:49 PM
05/31/12 03:49 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 486
IL
knyech1 Offline OP
mopar
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I checked the timing at 1,400rpm and it was between 21 and 22 far as I can tell, so I was close. I will mess with it if I have problems.

I checked the secondaries by pushing down on them with a flat blade screwdriver, and it wanted to die. Sooo...I am guessing that is my problem. I played with it and the primary idle adjustment screw and it is really finicky. It will idle around 1,100 then die, kinda like when I first put it on. If I adjust the primary idle to idle it up slightly...right back up to 1,400rpm. But it is still stupid rich like it could be a power valve, burns my eyes.

Keith, I will try to install a power valve and see if that helps. If that doesn't, I may just have to take you up on that. I appreciate that you would even offer to do that for me!


knyech1- '71 Sassy Grass Demon 340/904. Pump gas, 1.61 60ft, 7.439 1/8 @ 95mph, 11.824 1/4 @ 111mph "Not too bad for a pump gas 340, full of used parts and hillbilly ported stock heads." - V.B. '03 2500 5.9L HO 6-spd on 35's. 395hp/755ft-lb at tires.
Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! [Re: knyech1] #1242581
05/31/12 10:29 PM
05/31/12 10:29 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 528
N.W. Indiana
DblOJoe Offline
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If you just freshened this carb I would check the gasket between the main body and base plate to make sure it's the right one. Sounds like you have the idle holes covered up.

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! [Re: DblOJoe] #1242582
06/01/12 12:40 AM
06/01/12 12:40 AM
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Cheatham Offline
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Are the throttle shafts looses in the baseplate?

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! [Re: DblOJoe] #1242583
06/01/12 01:58 AM
06/01/12 01:58 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247
Mt. Vernon, Ohio
dartman366 Offline
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Quote:

If you just freshened this carb I would check the gasket between the main body and base plate to make sure it's the right one. Sounds like you have the idle holes covered up.


That to me is a sound possibility.


Light travels faster than the speed of sound,,,this is why some people seem bright untill you hear them speak.
Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! [Re: knyech1] #1242584
06/01/12 08:34 AM
06/01/12 08:34 AM
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Ontario, Canada
Dodgem Offline
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In would think with that cam you would want 36 degrees at 1400 rpms (total all in) bigger cams (and a 242 in a 340 is big enough) need lots of advance at idle to make them idle right. Yours will probably need 28 to 30 at 900 to idle right
Put the lightest springs you can find in the dizzy!

You can test it by advancing till you get a good idle set and check where that put you at in gear. The total will be way to far advanced but this is just a test to find where it needs to be to allow you to set your idle to keep it running nice then you will know how much faster it needs to advance to hold your idle!


I would think 900 to 1000 in gear would be acceptable idle with a bigger cam.

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! [Re: Dodgem] #1242585
06/01/12 02:45 PM
06/01/12 02:45 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 486
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knyech1 Offline OP
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Quote:

In would think with that cam you would want 36 degrees at 1400 rpms (total all in) bigger cams (and a 242 in a 340 is big enough) need lots of advance at idle to make them idle right. Yours will probably need 28 to 30 at 900 to idle right
Put the lightest springs you can find in the dizzy!

You can test it by advancing till you get a good idle set and check where that put you at in gear. The total will be way to far advanced but this is just a test to find where it needs to be to allow you to set your idle to keep it running nice then you will know how much faster it needs to advance to hold your idle!


I would think 900 to 1000 in gear would be acceptable idle with a bigger cam.




Really? I thought 700 in gear and 900 in neutral was ideal. But I am used to small hydraulic cams.

Where can I get lighter springs? Would I be better off getting a different distributor in the future?

Dbl"00"Joe and dartman366, I did take the carb apart again last night to check it out, clean the ports and such. Gasket seemed fine. I was going to install new powervalves too. The front one was blank, and the rear "looked" fine, but I installed two new powervalves. Was this the right thing to do or should I have left the blank in the front? I got it together last night but at midnight so I couldn't start it, people would not have been so happy with me.

Cheatham, I checked the throttle shafts and they were tight.


knyech1- '71 Sassy Grass Demon 340/904. Pump gas, 1.61 60ft, 7.439 1/8 @ 95mph, 11.824 1/4 @ 111mph "Not too bad for a pump gas 340, full of used parts and hillbilly ported stock heads." - V.B. '03 2500 5.9L HO 6-spd on 35's. 395hp/755ft-lb at tires.
Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! [Re: knyech1] #1242586
06/01/12 03:23 PM
06/01/12 03:23 PM
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emarine01 Offline
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When all else fails go back to the basics, pull the carb and set the idle stops & go from there, there are some good vids on u tube for basic holley set up

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! [Re: knyech1] #1242587
06/01/12 03:33 PM
06/01/12 03:33 PM
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Posts: 3,300
Northern Indiana
Dunnuck Racing Offline
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The rear power valve should be blocked off,and the front should have a 6.5 power valve to start with.
Either you mixed them up,or possibly you swapped the metering blocks from front to rear.
The front metering block will have the mixture screws and power valve.
The jetting will have to be changed if you add power valves where they were not before.

Keith

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! [Re: Dunnuck Racing] #1242588
06/01/12 04:03 PM
06/01/12 04:03 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 486
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knyech1 Offline OP
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Quote:

The rear power valve should be blocked off,and the front should have a 6.5 power valve to start with.
Either you mixed them up,or possibly you swapped the metering blocks from front to rear.
The front metering block will have the mixture screws and power valve.
The jetting will have to be changed if you add power valves where they were not before.

Keith



Crap..may have done that the last time. Well, I will switch that out. Messing with timing helps, and it doesn't lol. Still having issues with it wanting to die. Will plug the rear off and start over again. I am able to get it down to 1,100 right now, but after 15-30sec it wants to die.


knyech1- '71 Sassy Grass Demon 340/904. Pump gas, 1.61 60ft, 7.439 1/8 @ 95mph, 11.824 1/4 @ 111mph "Not too bad for a pump gas 340, full of used parts and hillbilly ported stock heads." - V.B. '03 2500 5.9L HO 6-spd on 35's. 395hp/755ft-lb at tires.
Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! [Re: knyech1] #1242589
06/01/12 04:14 PM
06/01/12 04:14 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
Dodgem Offline
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So I'll assume you have a stock style electronic!
Mr gasket 925B through any speed shop

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MRG-925B/

Or mopar performance from a dealer or speed shop.
P2932675

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DCC-2932675/


With an 800 holley I would go 5.5 power valve front with 72 jets and Block in the rear with 86 jets (76 or 77 rear if power valve used)

with blocks 80 front and 86 rear nice to set it this way with no power valves at first as you don't have to worry about a power valve opening at idle making it pig rich.

Think you'll find it will not idle till it has more so keep advancing it at idle till it will and you can set it once you get a good idle check your timing will likely be near 30 and this would likely give you 45 or so total but since you are not driving it will hurt nothing.

Then install a light spring kit to the dizzy till you get the required
idle and 35 36 total.






Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! [Re: knyech1] #1242590
06/01/12 04:18 PM
06/01/12 04:18 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
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Ontario, Canada
Dodgem Offline
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Messing with timing helps, and it doesn't lol. Still having issues with it wanting to die. Will plug the rear off and start over again. I am able to get it down to 1,100 right now, but after 15-30sec it wants to die.




often that is the idle drops and the timing drops so bam it wants to stall again. give it more advance till you can hold that idle re-curve can be done later!.

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! [Re: Dodgem] #1242591
06/02/12 02:00 AM
06/02/12 02:00 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247
Mt. Vernon, Ohio
dartman366 Offline
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Dunnuck Racing and dodgem are correct on what they are saying, once you have it running right(and you will) check your vacuum at running temp idling in drive and you will know what PV you need.


Light travels faster than the speed of sound,,,this is why some people seem bright untill you hear them speak.
Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! [Re: dartman366] #1242592
06/02/12 05:44 PM
06/02/12 05:44 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 486
IL
knyech1 Offline OP
mopar
knyech1  Offline OP
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Posts: 486
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Well...I put the powervalve on the correct end, and messed with the timing. When I got it to 28deg the rpms shot up and it started running right. So I set the idle from there, 1,000rpm idle 800-900rpm curb idle. Took it to the track and it ran great, ran some 8.0s on street tires, no transbrake/delay box the whole night. For some reason it was stuttering when I shifted into 2nd and 3rd, but only for maybe a half second and it would take off again. Weird I need to figure that out.


knyech1- '71 Sassy Grass Demon 340/904. Pump gas, 1.61 60ft, 7.439 1/8 @ 95mph, 11.824 1/4 @ 111mph "Not too bad for a pump gas 340, full of used parts and hillbilly ported stock heads." - V.B. '03 2500 5.9L HO 6-spd on 35's. 395hp/755ft-lb at tires.
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