Moparts

My Holley Idles Too High!!

Posted By: knyech1

My Holley Idles Too High!! - 05/31/12 04:32 AM

I can't seem to get my car to idle down. When I first got it running, it didn't want to stay running at all, would idle high and want to stall. Now it just wants to idle high and I didn't do anything to the carb yet. It idles at 1,400rpm in neutral, 1,100 in drive. The carburetor is a 4150 800 cfm double pumper #4780. Proform main body, no choke tower.
Specifics on the car (if it matters) are:
71 Demon may be around 2900#
340 stock stroke
275cfm iron heads
10.49:1 comp
904 trans w/TB
5500 stall
4.88 gears w/32" tires

So far I have pulled the float inspection screws, could see the fuel level.
Messing with the idle screw does nothing.
Messing with the mixture screws on the metering block does nothing. Does not have mixture screws on the rear metering block (don't know why?)
I sprayed carb cleaner around the intake, around the 1.5" spacer top and bottom, and all over the carb to check for a vacuum leak and the rpms stayed the same...right at 1,400rpm. All the vacuum ports on the carb are blocked.

I have no clue what to do here does anybody have any advice for me? I don't have much experience with Holleys, or carbs in general so I am not sure where to go from here and I am supposed to race in two days.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 05/31/12 04:44 AM

Is there some play in the throttle cable... that
might be your issue
Posted By: 64Post

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 05/31/12 04:47 AM

There's a small screw that adjust the secondary throttle blades on the pass. side of the carb. You'll have to hold the arm wide open to adjust it. See if that's your problem.

Power valve?
Posted By: knyech1

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 05/31/12 04:53 AM

Quote:

Is there some play in the throttle cable... that
might be your issue




There is some play in the throttle cable (Lokar cable with Jeg's dual return spring setup). I could just remove the cable I suppose to eliminate that possibility but since it had play I didn't deem it necessary to do...
Posted By: knyech1

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 05/31/12 04:59 AM

Quote:

There's a small screw that adjust the secondary throttle blades on the pass. side of the carb. You'll have to hold the arm wide open to adjust it. See if that's your problem.

Power valve?



I did not check that, though I thought about it. I need to adjust that screw till they are just barely open? Not sure how to measure that, or what to do there.

What could be wrong with the power valve? I thought its function was for WOT? It may have been damaged though because a week ago when I was trying to start the car it tried and died, and a little flame came out of the carb. Wasn't a backfire though so I didn't think much of it.
Posted By: Red440

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 05/31/12 05:34 AM



check for vacuum leaks, something maybe loose carb, intake , carb spacer
Posted By: RobX4406

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 05/31/12 05:54 AM

What cam is in the thing? That will be the biggest factor in idle quality.

Also, how is the timing? Initial and total.

Could be mechanical interference somewhere. Disconnect the throttle cable and see if it resets.
Posted By: knyech1

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 05/31/12 06:00 AM

Quote:



check for vacuum leaks, something maybe loose carb, intake , carb spacer



I sprayed the carb cleaner all over thinking that would expose the leak if there was one, but nothing happened. I will go check and see if something loosened up... ...ok checked the carb and it was tight. Checked the intake for the 4th time now and actually 2 bolts were not quite torqued down. I say torqued down but I can't get a torque wrench on them (RPM Air Gap, the middle two bolts on either side). I tightened them up a bit. Would start the car now, but it's midnight and I don't want to have the police called on me...again. Neighbors don't like young whippersnappers like me having loud cars, trucks and bikes

Will start it tomorrow and let you all know what happens.
Posted By: knyech1

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 05/31/12 06:03 AM

Quote:

What cam is in the thing? That will be the biggest factor in idle quality.

Also, how is the timing? Initial and total.

Could be mechanical interference somewhere. Disconnect the throttle cable and see if it resets.



The cam is a solid flat tappet .540 242deg@.050 installed at 104deg

Would love to hear the engine actually idle with it. I tried to set the timing as best I could but with the rpms so fast I can't really read it. Any suggestions?

I will disconnect the cable tomorrow and see if that helps.
Posted By: dartman366

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 05/31/12 06:10 AM

Idle ajustment screw on the primary's that would also explain the no response out of the idle quality screws, I would take it off and reset the throttle blades and make sure they are set right with the idle transferr slots in the base plate and check for any mechanical interference, could also be an internal vacuum leak also that wouldn't show up with the carb cleaner trick. was there a vacuum hose left off some where, also does it have power brakes, maybe a faulty booster. I'm still thinking
Posted By: rebel

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 05/31/12 06:11 AM

whats the initial timing? that cam will want it up a bit
Posted By: RobX4406

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 05/31/12 06:13 AM

Should be able to idle that down to the 950-1000 range if everything is right.

I'll say I'd put about 20-22 initial timing on it. That's where my 340 with a 528 mechanical wanted it.
Posted By: knyech1

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 05/31/12 06:15 AM

Quote:

Idle ajustment screw on the primary's that would also explain the no response out of the idle quality screws, I would take it off and reset the throttle blades and make sure they are set right with the idle transferr slots in the base plate and check for any mechanical interference, could also be an internal vacuum leak also that wouldn't show up with the carb cleaner trick. was there a vacuum hose left off some where, also does it have power brakes, maybe a faulty booster. I'm still thinking



I will double check for missing vacuum hoses, but they should all be blocked off. I have manual brakes :/
How can I reset the throttle blades? Please bear with me I am kind of carb dumb, didn't know the throttle blades could be reset.
Posted By: knyech1

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 05/31/12 06:18 AM

Quote:

Should be able to idle that down to the 950-1000 range if everything is right.

I'll say I'd put about 20-22 initial timing on it. That's where my 340 with a 528 mechanical wanted it.



Rebel and RobX, I am not sure how to set initial timing I guess. I thought initial timing had to be set below 1,000rpm and above that your distributor started to advance...I guess I may be wrong. If I am I could tell you what I have it set at tomorrow probably. IIRC I tried to set it at 23deg.
Posted By: dartman366

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 05/31/12 06:20 AM

after re-reading you say the idle screw has no effect, then as mentioned check the secondary stop/idle screw and reset the blades to the transfer slot's and leave the throttle cable off if all works out then readjust the throttle cable to give you a little slack. still thinking
Posted By: RobX4406

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 05/31/12 06:21 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Should be able to idle that down to the 950-1000 range if everything is right.

I'll say I'd put about 20-22 initial timing on it. That's where my 340 with a 528 mechanical wanted it.



Rebel and RobX, I am not sure how to set initial timing I guess. I thought initial timing had to be set below 1,000rpm and above that your distributor started to advance...I guess I may be wrong. If I am I could tell you what I have it set at tomorrow probably. IIRC I tried to set it at 23deg.



As long as it's not bleeding in mechanical advance at idle, you're setting initial. Don't worry about total at this point. Not sure why you are having trouble seeing it. Pretty easy unless you have a chrome damper or no marks to reference.

23 initial, if correct, is a decent starting point for that set up IMO.

If using a stock damper, hillbilly timing tape it.

Posted By: dartman366

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 05/31/12 06:26 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Should be able to idle that down to the 950-1000 range if everything is right.

I'll say I'd put about 20-22 initial timing on it. That's where my 340 with a 528 mechanical wanted it.



Rebel and RobX, I am not sure how to set initial timing I guess. I thought initial timing had to be set below 1,000rpm and above that your distributor started to advance...I guess I may be wrong. If I am I could tell you what I have it set at tomorrow probably. IIRC I tried to set it at 23deg.

It should be set at idle, but thats the problem,,can you check the total to see that you are not out of the ballpark with it by having way too much? lot's of times I have seen too much timing cause a high idle, maybe not as much as yours but elevated.
Posted By: 10 o to go

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 05/31/12 11:15 AM

Check your Dist could be advance springs stuck .I didn't see what dist you had does it have a vac advance ?
Turn the Sec screw you will have to have a wierd screwdriver Home made to go up to that screw shut the butterfly more .
One ?? when you rev it ,does it come back down ?

Attached picture 7229406-BKD9-11-01_302C.jpg
Posted By: knyech1

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 05/31/12 01:28 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Should be able to idle that down to the 950-1000 range if everything is right.

I'll say I'd put about 20-22 initial timing on it. That's where my 340 with a 528 mechanical wanted it.



Rebel and RobX, I am not sure how to set initial timing I guess. I thought initial timing had to be set below 1,000rpm and above that your distributor started to advance...I guess I may be wrong. If I am I could tell you what I have it set at tomorrow probably. IIRC I tried to set it at 23deg.



As long as it's not bleeding in mechanical advance at idle, you're setting initial. Don't worry about total at this point. Not sure why you are having trouble seeing it. Pretty easy unless you have a chrome damper or no marks to reference.

23 initial, if correct, is a decent starting point for that set up IMO.

If using a stock damper, hillbilly timing tape it.





Its a nice shiny SFI damper from Summit and it is kind of difficult to read. I will do it in the garage this afternoon and see what it says.

dartman366, how high do I need to have the rpms to make sure I am reading total timing and what should that number be?

10 o to go, my distributor is a factory electronic with vacuum advance, BUT I have the vacuum line blocked off.
When I rev it up it comes right back to 1,400rpm
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 05/31/12 01:43 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Should be able to idle that down to the 950-1000 range if everything is right.

I'll say I'd put about 20-22 initial timing on it. That's where my 340 with a 528 mechanical wanted it.



Rebel and RobX, I am not sure how to set initial timing I guess. I thought initial timing had to be set below 1,000rpm and above that your distributor started to advance...I guess I may be wrong. If I am I could tell you what I have it set at tomorrow probably. IIRC I tried to set it at 23deg.



As long as it's not bleeding in mechanical advance at idle, you're setting initial. Don't worry about total at this point. Not sure why you are having trouble seeing it. Pretty easy unless you have a chrome damper or no marks to reference.

23 initial, if correct, is a decent starting point for that set up IMO.

If using a stock damper, hillbilly timing tape it.





Its a nice shiny SFI damper from Summit and it is kind of difficult to read. I will do it in the garage this afternoon and see what it says.

dartman366, how high do I need to have the rpms to make sure I am reading total timing and what should that number be?

10 o to go, my distributor is a factory electronic with vacuum advance, BUT I have the vacuum line blocked off.
When I rev it up it comes right back to 1,400rpm



Get it up to 3000rpm to set the total timing...34*
should be close for testing... then you can tweek
it in on the track.... if it drops right back to 1400
it sounds like its a mech issue... check the secondary
screw to see if its too high.... IF you want to pull
the carb off to set the transfer slot you can...
once its off flip it over(gas will pour out) and
look at the slot at the throttle blades....set the
throttle so that the slot makes a square hole...
if the blades are open too far you are past the idle
circuit so the idle mixture screws wont have any
effect... so get it down on the idle then mess with
the mixture and idle set screw...... you said that
the throttle cable has some slack so that MOST LIKELY
isnt the issue... check the secondary screw... timing
comes first though... then the carb
Posted By: tboomer

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 05/31/12 01:47 PM

On the damper...Use some paint or fingernail polish on the timing mark....Lots easier to see!!
Posted By: mopar400

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 05/31/12 01:52 PM

Quote:

Quote:

What cam is in the thing? That will be the biggest factor in idle quality.

Also, how is the timing? Initial and total.

Could be mechanical interference somewhere. Disconnect the throttle cable and see if it resets.



The cam is a solid flat tappet .540 [Email]242deg@.050[/Email] installed at 104deg

Would love to hear the engine actually idle with it. I tried to set the timing as best I could but with the rpms so fast I can't really read it. Any suggestions?

I will disconnect the cable tomorrow and see if that helps.



I had a similar issue with my car. I ended up having to set initial timing at 18 Deg. w/ 35* total. All in by 2500 RPM and get a carb setup with 4 corner idling. I also started out with a 850 carb with only primary idle mixture screws and a dist with factory advance curve. I believe the carb was my biggest cause of the idle problems. The carb is probably not setup for that large of a camshaft. The idle vacuum is low and provides a weak signal to the idle circuit. With only front mixture adjustment and not being able to change out the air bleeds it will be almost impossible to dial it in. I would start by taking the carb off and baselining the throttle plates. There is a good video in tech section on www.4secondsflat.com. When I looked earlier the website was down. Also, look down in the carb with engine at idle and make sure the boosters aren't dripping fuel. Good luck!

EDIT: I just noticed you have proform main body. You may end up needing a rear metering plate with mixture scews and adjusting air bleeds for your combo.
Posted By: BIGSTROKER

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 05/31/12 02:29 PM

all that stuff and make sure the power valve is correct should be 1/2 the vac in inchs
Posted By: RobX4406

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 05/31/12 05:21 PM

Quote:

On the damper...Use some paint or fingernail polish on the timing mark....Lots easier to see!!



Exactly

I'd put a mark at 15 and 30BTDC or 20 and 40BTDC so you can see it clearly. Even a sharpie will work.

I WOULD NOT set it using total timimg method at this point if you are trying to sort out the idle. If that distributor has 28 degrees of mechanical advance in it. You're gonna be screwed trying to get a good idle because if you total time it at 35* you'll only have about 7* initial.. NOT GOOD!

Make sure the float levels are set properly as well.
Posted By: dartman366

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 05/31/12 05:24 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Should be able to idle that down to the 950-1000 range if everything is right.

I'll say I'd put about 20-22 initial timing on it. That's where my 340 with a 528 mechanical wanted it.



Rebel and RobX, I am not sure how to set initial timing I guess. I thought initial timing had to be set below 1,000rpm and above that your distributor started to advance...I guess I may be wrong. If I am I could tell you what I have it set at tomorrow probably. IIRC I tried to set it at 23deg.



As long as it's not bleeding in mechanical advance at idle, you're setting initial. Don't worry about total at this point. Not sure why you are having trouble seeing it. Pretty easy unless you have a chrome damper or no marks to reference.

23 initial, if correct, is a decent starting point for that set up IMO.

If using a stock damper, hillbilly timing tape it.





Its a nice shiny SFI damper from Summit and it is kind of difficult to read. I will do it in the garage this afternoon and see what it says.

dartman366, how high do I need to have the rpms to make sure I am reading total timing and what should that number be?

10 o to go, my distributor is a factory electronic with vacuum advance, BUT I have the vacuum line blocked off.
When I rev it up it comes right back to 1,400rpm



Get it up to 3000rpm to set the total timing...34*
should be close for testing... then you can tweek
it in on the track.... if it drops right back to 1400
it sounds like its a mech issue... check the secondary
screw to see if its too high.... IF you want to pull
the carb off to set the transfer slot you can...
once its off flip it over(gas will pour out) and
look at the slot at the throttle blades....set the
throttle so that the slot makes a square hole...
if the blades are open too far you are past the idle
circuit so the idle mixture screws wont have any
effect... so get it down on the idle then mess with
the mixture and idle set screw...... you said that
the throttle cable has some slack so that MOST LIKELY
isnt the issue... check the secondary screw... timing
comes first though... then the carb


Mike you treed me, just talked to a fellow who had the same issue with a 950 and it ended up being the idle screw for the secondarys, mis adjusted and held the throttle plates open just a little too far, hopefully thats all it is, but Mike is correct.
Posted By: Dodgem

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 05/31/12 06:25 PM

Wrap some masking tape around harmonic temporarily so you can see plus you can mark places you want like if you want 15 in gear idle and 36 total and such and then remove after easy peasy cause flashback sucks!

Posted By: Dunnuck Racing

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 05/31/12 07:14 PM

Jeremy,
Back in the old days ( I know you are pretty young compared to some of us),Holley carburetors only had mixture screws on the primary metering block. Later on they went to 4 corner idle mixture settings.
When swithcing to a Proform main body(at least back when this one was done) they tell you which idle air bleed to use for the rear depending on if you have 2 corner idle mixture or 4.
Yours has all this done. It ran well on a 10.80 440 and a 11.80 360 street car so I know it will work for you.
When you freshened the carb,there is a chance you may have something misaligned so the throttle plates are hanging up. Like I told you in the P.M.,send it to me and I will dial it back in for you. If you are afraid you won't get it back in time,I will send you a safely tuned HP950 to use for Monster Mopar and then you can trade me back later.
This 950 is the small bore Holley made one that has the same venturi size as an older 750 so it should work well for you. Let me know if I can help.

Keith
Posted By: knyech1

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 05/31/12 07:49 PM

I checked the timing at 1,400rpm and it was between 21 and 22 far as I can tell, so I was close. I will mess with it if I have problems.

I checked the secondaries by pushing down on them with a flat blade screwdriver, and it wanted to die. Sooo...I am guessing that is my problem. I played with it and the primary idle adjustment screw and it is really finicky. It will idle around 1,100 then die, kinda like when I first put it on. If I adjust the primary idle to idle it up slightly...right back up to 1,400rpm. But it is still stupid rich like it could be a power valve, burns my eyes.

Keith, I will try to install a power valve and see if that helps. If that doesn't, I may just have to take you up on that. I appreciate that you would even offer to do that for me!
Posted By: DblOJoe

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 06/01/12 02:29 AM

If you just freshened this carb I would check the gasket between the main body and base plate to make sure it's the right one. Sounds like you have the idle holes covered up.
Posted By: Cheatham

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 06/01/12 04:40 AM

Are the throttle shafts looses in the baseplate?
Posted By: dartman366

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 06/01/12 05:58 AM

Quote:

If you just freshened this carb I would check the gasket between the main body and base plate to make sure it's the right one. Sounds like you have the idle holes covered up.

That to me is a sound possibility.
Posted By: Dodgem

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 06/01/12 12:34 PM

In would think with that cam you would want 36 degrees at 1400 rpms (total all in) bigger cams (and a 242 in a 340 is big enough) need lots of advance at idle to make them idle right. Yours will probably need 28 to 30 at 900 to idle right
Put the lightest springs you can find in the dizzy!

You can test it by advancing till you get a good idle set and check where that put you at in gear. The total will be way to far advanced but this is just a test to find where it needs to be to allow you to set your idle to keep it running nice then you will know how much faster it needs to advance to hold your idle!


I would think 900 to 1000 in gear would be acceptable idle with a bigger cam.
Posted By: knyech1

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 06/01/12 06:45 PM

Quote:

In would think with that cam you would want 36 degrees at 1400 rpms (total all in) bigger cams (and a 242 in a 340 is big enough) need lots of advance at idle to make them idle right. Yours will probably need 28 to 30 at 900 to idle right
Put the lightest springs you can find in the dizzy!

You can test it by advancing till you get a good idle set and check where that put you at in gear. The total will be way to far advanced but this is just a test to find where it needs to be to allow you to set your idle to keep it running nice then you will know how much faster it needs to advance to hold your idle!


I would think 900 to 1000 in gear would be acceptable idle with a bigger cam.



Really? I thought 700 in gear and 900 in neutral was ideal. But I am used to small hydraulic cams.

Where can I get lighter springs? Would I be better off getting a different distributor in the future?

Dbl"00"Joe and dartman366, I did take the carb apart again last night to check it out, clean the ports and such. Gasket seemed fine. I was going to install new powervalves too. The front one was blank, and the rear "looked" fine, but I installed two new powervalves. Was this the right thing to do or should I have left the blank in the front? I got it together last night but at midnight so I couldn't start it, people would not have been so happy with me.

Cheatham, I checked the throttle shafts and they were tight.
Posted By: emarine01

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 06/01/12 07:23 PM

When all else fails go back to the basics, pull the carb and set the idle stops & go from there, there are some good vids on u tube for basic holley set up
Posted By: Dunnuck Racing

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 06/01/12 07:33 PM

The rear power valve should be blocked off,and the front should have a 6.5 power valve to start with.
Either you mixed them up,or possibly you swapped the metering blocks from front to rear.
The front metering block will have the mixture screws and power valve.
The jetting will have to be changed if you add power valves where they were not before.

Keith
Posted By: knyech1

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 06/01/12 08:03 PM

Quote:

The rear power valve should be blocked off,and the front should have a 6.5 power valve to start with.
Either you mixed them up,or possibly you swapped the metering blocks from front to rear.
The front metering block will have the mixture screws and power valve.
The jetting will have to be changed if you add power valves where they were not before.

Keith


Crap..may have done that the last time. Well, I will switch that out. Messing with timing helps, and it doesn't lol. Still having issues with it wanting to die. Will plug the rear off and start over again. I am able to get it down to 1,100 right now, but after 15-30sec it wants to die.
Posted By: Dodgem

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 06/01/12 08:14 PM

So I'll assume you have a stock style electronic!
Mr gasket 925B through any speed shop

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MRG-925B/

Or mopar performance from a dealer or speed shop.
P2932675

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DCC-2932675/


With an 800 holley I would go 5.5 power valve front with 72 jets and Block in the rear with 86 jets (76 or 77 rear if power valve used)

with blocks 80 front and 86 rear nice to set it this way with no power valves at first as you don't have to worry about a power valve opening at idle making it pig rich.

Think you'll find it will not idle till it has more so keep advancing it at idle till it will and you can set it once you get a good idle check your timing will likely be near 30 and this would likely give you 45 or so total but since you are not driving it will hurt nothing.

Then install a light spring kit to the dizzy till you get the required
idle and 35 36 total.





Posted By: Dodgem

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 06/01/12 08:18 PM

Messing with timing helps, and it doesn't lol. Still having issues with it wanting to die. Will plug the rear off and start over again. I am able to get it down to 1,100 right now, but after 15-30sec it wants to die.



often that is the idle drops and the timing drops so bam it wants to stall again. give it more advance till you can hold that idle re-curve can be done later!.
Posted By: dartman366

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 06/02/12 06:00 AM

Dunnuck Racing and dodgem are correct on what they are saying, once you have it running right(and you will) check your vacuum at running temp idling in drive and you will know what PV you need.
Posted By: knyech1

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 06/02/12 09:44 PM

Well...I put the powervalve on the correct end, and messed with the timing. When I got it to 28deg the rpms shot up and it started running right. So I set the idle from there, 1,000rpm idle 800-900rpm curb idle. Took it to the track and it ran great, ran some 8.0s on street tires, no transbrake/delay box the whole night. For some reason it was stuttering when I shifted into 2nd and 3rd, but only for maybe a half second and it would take off again. Weird I need to figure that out.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 06/02/12 09:56 PM

Quote:

Well...I put the powervalve on the correct end, and messed with the timing. When I got it to 28deg the rpms shot up and it started running right. So I set the idle from there, 1,000rpm idle 800-900rpm curb idle. Took it to the track and it ran great, ran some 8.0s on street tires, no transbrake/delay box the whole night. For some reason it was stuttering when I shifted into 2nd and 3rd, but only for maybe a half second and it would take off again. Weird I need to figure that out.



Might need a larger needle and seat... soon as you
shift it takes a moment to get some fuel into the
bowls.... you would have .110 stock and the .130
should help that... I had the same issue a few years
back(when I was running gas)
Posted By: knyech1

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 06/02/12 10:12 PM

Quote:


Might need a larger needle and seat... soon as you
shift it takes a moment to get some fuel into the
bowls.... you would have .110 stock and the .130
should help that... I had the same issue a few years
back(when I was running gas)




Ok I could try that. I just figured there was always a sufficient fuel flow at WOT especially if I shifted, dropping the rpm. I have a couple spare needles here, when I tried to measure the orifice size it looked like ~.120 (that is, if I was measuring the right spot). Do I have to remove the float to remove the needle? And I'm pretty sure I have side-hung floats (adjusters on the ends of each bowl) and I can't seem to find any that are .130? All the needles .130 and bigger are center-hung needles according to Summit...
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 06/02/12 10:20 PM

Ok I could try that. I just figured there was always a sufficient fuel flow at WOT especially if I shifted, dropping the rpm. I have a couple spare needles here, when I tried to measure the orifice size it looked like ~.120 (that is, if I was measuring the right spot). Do I have to remove the float to remove the needle? And I'm pretty sure I have side-hung floats (adjusters on the ends of each bowl) and I can't seem to find any that are .130? All the needles .130 and bigger are center-hung needles according to Summit...



IF you do have .120 it should be ok... I dont know
about the side hung but I believe it still comes out
the top so you shouldnt need to open it up
Posted By: Dunnuck Racing

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 06/02/12 10:29 PM

You have center hung float bowls,and they come out the top like Mr.P said. But I doubt you need bigger needle and seats for the power level you are at right now.

Anyhow,you had my phone # wrong,574-360-5936 is my cell,574-237-0744 is my home number. You had my cell # with a couple of numbers reversed.
I would look into the rest of the fuel system (pump,lines,filter). That is if it is not hitting the limiter or something along those lines.
Keith
Posted By: knyech1

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 06/02/12 10:59 PM

Quote:

You have center hung float bowls,and they come out the top like Mr.P said. But I doubt you need bigger needle and seats for the power level you are at right now.

Anyhow,you had my phone # wrong,574-360-5936 is my cell,574-237-0744 is my home number. You had my cell # with a couple of numbers reversed.
I would look into the rest of the fuel system (pump,lines,filter). That is if it is not hitting the limiter or something along those lines.
Keith



Well crap...I don't feel very smart. Was going by what I read, so I thought they were side hung cuz that's what they floats look like inside the bowls. I would think the fuel system is ok because it came off a 10.5sec stroker engine. I dunno. I am going to take it out on the country roads for a little bit and see if its not the limiter.

Attached picture 7233254-Floats.jpg
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 06/02/12 11:53 PM

Just pull the limiter chips for a run and see what happens
Posted By: Dunnuck Racing

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 06/03/12 12:06 AM

I see what caused the confusion. That picture is of a centerhung float with side wigs cut out of it for fuel control,.... not side hung floats. No reason to feel dumb. We all start out knowing nothing and work our way up from there. You are learning faster than a lot of people. I know guys that have raced for many years and wont touch a carburetor.
Posted By: knyech1

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 06/03/12 12:56 AM

Quote:

I see what caused the confusion. That picture is of a centerhung float with side wigs cut out of it for fuel control,.... not side hung floats. No reason to feel dumb. We all start out knowing nothing and work our way up from there. You are learning faster than a lot of people. I know guys that have raced for many years and wont touch a carburetor.



Well, life becomes boring when you stop learning. I just don't like not knowing much about anything. Really this is the first carb I have gotten into. But I want to learn, because I want to continue doing what I love.
Well if it stops raining sometime today I will get my car out and play around. I will adjust my limiter (7AL-2 box) and my two-step limiter on some backroads. Should have already done that buuuut I Have been busy and had surgery not too long ago...
Posted By: dartman366

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 06/03/12 02:15 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I see what caused the confusion. That picture is of a centerhung float with side wigs cut out of it for fuel control,.... not side hung floats. No reason to feel dumb. We all start out knowing nothing and work our way up from there. You are learning faster than a lot of people. I know guys that have raced for many years and wont touch a carburetor.



Well, life becomes boring when you stop learning. I just don't like not knowing much about anything. Really this is the first carb I have gotten into. But I want to learn, because I want to continue doing what I love.
Well if it stops raining sometime today I will get my car out and play around. I will adjust my limiter (7AL-2 box) and my two-step limiter on some backroads. Should have already done that buuuut I Have been busy and had surgery not too long ago...

Glad to see things are starting to come around, I would do as Mr p said and just pull the chip, I know for a fact that MSD chip's can vary 200-300 rpm so you may just need to up your chip size by 200 rpm and try it.
Posted By: Dodgem

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 06/03/12 01:51 PM

I'm wondering if your transmission is hanging up on the 2 3 shift. I once had a valve body with a shift kit in would do that on the 2 3 manual shift. dam locked hard for a split second then cool??? Shifting on it's own off the govener it was fine and I had a govener that gave 6000 shifts so I'd let it shift. Was told later shift kit was likely the wrong one for the year of valve body.

On the top of the valve body is a sun with the year in it never noticed it till it was pointed out! May be something to watch for.

So what is your total timing now???
Posted By: Dodgem

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 06/03/12 01:55 PM

So 8.0 is like a 12.6/7's
Posted By: knyech1

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 06/03/12 10:35 PM

Quote:

I'm wondering if your transmission is hanging up on the 2 3 shift. I once had a valve body with a shift kit in would do that on the 2 3 manual shift. dam locked hard for a split second then cool??? Shifting on it's own off the govener it was fine and I had a govener that gave 6000 shifts so I'd let it shift. Was told later shift kit was likely the wrong one for the year of valve body.

On the top of the valve body is a sun with the year in it never noticed it till it was pointed out! May be something to watch for.

So what is your total timing now???




I am not sure what the total timing is, I wanna say 34 but I can check that again. I am running a 7AL-2 so I just moved the dial up. If it's not quite full throttle, it shifts fine and runs clean. If it's full throttle it shifts smooth still, stutters so I slightly let off and hit it again and it runs clean again. A&A did my valve body and provided the internals and I am very very happy with it. But it does kinda seem like the carb needs to catch up. Could be because it was really hot, the temp gets up to 210-225 (according to the gauge at least) when I am just starting and stopping. Doesn't like to start when it's that hot either.
I realized why my delay box isn't working...it's because it's not hooked up . My transbrake and two-step work but not the box. Have no idea where to start because I don't know how to wire up the box in the first place. I am betting I can run better times with my two step and brake working. Hoping closer to mid 7's in the 8th and mid 11's in the quarter.
Posted By: Dodgem

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 06/04/12 01:53 PM

Does almost sound like you are running out of fuel!
Posted By: dartman366

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 06/04/12 05:21 PM

Quote:

Does almost sound like you are running out of fuel!

my thought's also,be interesting as to what the fuel pressure is doing down track.
Posted By: knyech1

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 06/04/12 07:25 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Does almost sound like you are running out of fuel!

my thought's also,be interesting as to what the fuel pressure is doing down track.



I have not thought about that. Has a Holley Blue on it now. May put my Mallory on it if I have fuel pressure issues down the track? I know that's a better (and quieter) fuel pump.
I haven't really paid attention to the pressure because I am freaking out enough racing a car I have 6 years worth of work into haha I don't wanna wreck! But I will look at that I suppose on Thursday, I am getting my slicks mounted today.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 06/04/12 07:32 PM

I have not thought about that. Has a Holley Blue on it now. May put my Mallory on it if I have fuel pressure issues down the track? I know that's a better (and quieter) fuel pump.
I haven't really paid attention to the pressure because I am freaking out enough racing a car I have 6 years worth of work into haha I don't wanna wreck! But I will look at that I suppose on Thursday, I am getting my slicks mounted today.



Do you have a fuel pressure gauge on the car(one
that you can see, not under the hood)... tape a gauge
on the windshield so you can read it at a glance
Posted By: RobX4406

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 06/04/12 07:36 PM

When you set the gauge up, place it so the needle is pointing straight up, 12 o'clock location for the pressure you desire, say 7 psi. That way if it is pointing that direction or very close you don't also have to see what number it's pointing at while driving. You'll know it's OK
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 06/04/12 07:38 PM

Quote:

When you set the gauge up, place it so the needle is pointing straight up, 12 o'clock location for the pressure you desire, say 7 psi. That way if it is pointing that direction or very close you don't also have to see what number it's pointing at while driving. You'll know it's OK



Thats the way I do alot of my gauges... just a glance
and you know your in the ball park
Posted By: RobX4406

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 06/04/12 07:51 PM

Quote:

Quote:

When you set the gauge up, place it so the needle is pointing straight up, 12 o'clock location for the pressure you desire, say 7 psi. That way if it is pointing that direction or very close you don't also have to see what number it's pointing at while driving. You'll know it's OK



Thats the way I do alot of my gauges... just a glance
and you know your in the ball park




Aircraft are the same way or used to be. Pointing at 12 o'clock, you're in the good. No need to process what number the gauge is pointing at, especially if you get in a hectic situation.
Posted By: knyech1

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 06/04/12 11:07 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

When you set the gauge up, place it so the needle is pointing straight up, 12 o'clock location for the pressure you desire, say 7 psi. That way if it is pointing that direction or very close you don't also have to see what number it's pointing at while driving. You'll know it's OK



Thats the way I do alot of my gauges... just a glance
and you know your in the ball park




Aircraft are the same way or used to be. Pointing at 12 o'clock, you're in the good. No need to process what number the gauge is pointing at, especially if you get in a hectic situation.



That's a good idea, I do have one, but it's not quite at 12 o'clock. It is right in front of the windshield though. I will be sure to look at it when I go to the track this weekend at Monster Mopar and see if it's dropping.
Posted By: 10 o to go

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 06/05/12 12:34 AM

Do you have fuel filter and if so what size type ?
Seen some fancy glass ones but dont flow with a small inlet outlet.
What size fuel line ?
Look us up at MMW with Purple canopy ,purple 71 challenger ,most know me .
Thursday be in main drive lane in pits .

Attached picture 7236434-badsmallblock.jpg
Posted By: knyech1

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 06/05/12 02:26 AM

Quote:

Do you have fuel filter and if so what size type ?
Seen some fancy glass ones but dont flow with a small inlet outlet.
What size fuel line ?
Look us up at MMW with Purple canopy ,purple 71 challenger ,most know me .
Thursday be in main drive lane in pits .



I am running a 6AN line I know that. Just went out to look and its a Professional Products one (?) looks like it has an aluminum can pretty large in size and 6AN lines in and out.

I see you every year! Just been afraid to approach because I didn't have a car yet, and therefore I was afraid I would be considered a tire kicker to any and all racers there. I will try to be there Thursday to get a parking spot, and I will try to park close to you. I will bring two different groups of people too. This is their first competitive race they have been in as well as I, so we are all excited. My car is a green 71 Demon, posted it on the Demon thread on here but here it is again

Attached picture 7236619-DemonUp.jpg
Posted By: dartman366

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 06/05/12 05:56 AM

-06 lines seem a little small to me, I would think -08 would be better with a minimum of 1/2 from the tank to the front then split to two -08's from the regulator to the bowls.
Posted By: knyech1

Re: My Holley Idles Too High!! - 06/07/12 05:14 AM

Quote:

-06 lines seem a little small to me, I would think -08 would be better with a minimum of 1/2 from the tank to the front then split to two -08's from the regulator to the bowls.



I should probably measure it. It may be -08 I'm not sure, has two lines from the regulator. The system did well enough to propel a 10sec engine whereas mine is probably closer to mid 11's.

I'm sorry to hear you will not be able to make it to Monster Mopar this year. This is my first one where I can race for real. Hope everything works out ok.
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