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Tires for street and some track use
#1232184
05/12/12 05:25 PM
05/12/12 05:25 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,456
Fly Over States
PHJ426
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,456
Fly Over States
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What brand tires are you running on the street and maybe some track use. I know this really depends on what size tires are run on the car as well.
Currently for the street it appears the 16" rubber that was once popular with the C4 'Vette application is really drying up for selection in the 255/50R16's. There are plenty of track tires available in this size. So getting a set of 16 x 8's with track rubber in this size will not be an issue.
So it looks like a 17x9 wheel in front and maybe a 17 x 9.5 or 17 x 10 in the rear for the 72 Road Runner.
Currently looks like these are the options:
245/45R17 or 255/45R17 Front on 17 x 9's
275/40R17 or 285/40R17 Rear on 17 x 9.5 's
With 255 front and 285 rears the selection is
Nitto 555, Continental Extreme Contact DW , Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3, Goodyear Eagle GS-C EMT, Pirelli P Zero System, Kuhmo Ecsta SPT, Kuhmo Ecsta ASX and
Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus
Knocking the rear tire to a 275/40R17 keeps the same selections as above and adds some tires from Firestone, BF Goodrich, Hankook and a track and competition tire set is made by Hoosier R6 in these 2 sizes.
Any of these tires that you would stay away from or any you have been very happy with street and some track duty use with?
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Re: Tires for street and some track use
[Re: PHJ426]
#1232187
05/12/12 09:36 PM
05/12/12 09:36 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 257
albemarle, NC
dusterbd13
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 257
albemarle, NC
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Quote:
With 255 front and 285 rears the selection is
Nitto 555, Continental Extreme Contact DW , Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3, Goodyear Eagle GS-C EMT, Pirelli P Zero System, Kuhmo Ecsta SPT, Kuhmo Ecsta ASX and
Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus
Knocking the rear tire to a 275/40R17 keeps the same selections as above and adds some tires from Firestone, BF Goodrich, Hankook and a track and competition tire set is made by Hoosier R6 in these 2 sizes.
Any of these tires that you would stay away from or any you have been very happy with street and some track duty use with?
ive driven some of these on vettes on the track for customers. the eagles sucked. hard. no life on track, very squirmy when hot, and very vauge turn in. that was with either variant.
the michelins were good, but gave up some ultimate grip to others, like the kumhos.
the sizes you are looking at are very similar to c5 corvette sizes. weve found falken 912's, veilsteins (sp?), and federal 595's to work well. good tires. not the longest lived, but 1/2 the price of the rest.
personally im running the federals on my duster. found them to be acceptable in the rain, have good turn in, good ultimate grip. dont like that they break away with no warning, and have a very unstable tire pressure expansion rate. but for 400 a set, what do you expect? like them a whole lot better than my old bfg g-force's.
if anything from your list, id go with the michiling or the continentals. the reviews ive seen of the continentals, and the porsche drivers i know that have used them, seem to be pretty solid.
but ultimately, tires are like women. we all like different ones for different reasons.
michael
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Re: Tires for street and some track use
[Re: Kern Dog]
#1232190
05/13/12 10:50 PM
05/13/12 10:50 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,468
Answering the call of the wild
ThermoQuad
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,468
Answering the call of the wild
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Since I received a pm about this I will attempt to share some information about tires and what works on a street driven car that can survive hot laps on a road course. This is the handling section, not the drag race section.
Here is what works, if you got something better show me with results
10 inches of tread,
26 inch tall tire
8 inch wide wheel
4.5 inches of backspace
All 4 wheels and tires the same size.
[If it's an A body I am not experienced enough with those cars but i have some one right now building a 66 Plymouth Valiant for beating up corvettes and porches. Stay tuned]
How you get there is not my problem. 15 16 17 18 19 inch tire it's still
10 inches of tread,
26 inches tall,
8 inch wide wheel
4.5 inches of backspace.
All 4 wheels and tires the same size.
All those hair pulling time wasting questions about tires and wheel sizes all go away if you just follow what works well.
If you think you need more tire you're wasting your time.
A 255 50 16 tire is a very large tire.
I have run on 15 and 16 inch tires. BFG, Toyo, Yokahama, Michelin.
Currently on a 1970 Charger R/T we have 255-50 16 BFG g-Force Sport COMP-2 tires 16x8 wheels 4.5 backspace. Nice tires. The car is lowered with still plenty of travel in the suspension. Imagine that! See the pic in the other thread. Low enough? More tire will make this behemoth handle worse than it does now. Actually it handles "amazingly flat" -not my words, instructors words- on the 255-50 16 BFG g-Force Sport COMP-2. If I told what rear springs and bars we used to make that happen you would be surprised.
If I want it to handle better than it already does all I have to do is plunk down about $1100.00 for 4 toyo competition tires 255-50-16 tire. It's that simple.
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Re: Tires for street and some track use
[Re: ThermoQuad]
#1232191
05/13/12 11:11 PM
05/13/12 11:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 797
WA
pro451bee
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 797
WA
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Do tell about those bars and leafs ,dont hold out on us .That car looks very fun to drive fast.I love the way these big cars ride and drive when properly tuned .  Oh my car has .96 T bars and 6 leaf springs on rear and 245 and 255 17's and it works well also.
Last edited by pro451bee; 05/13/12 11:14 PM.
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Re: Tires for street and some track use
[Re: ThermoQuad]
#1232192
05/14/12 02:55 AM
05/14/12 02:55 AM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog
Striving for excellence
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Striving for excellence
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
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Quote:
1970 Charger R/T we have 255-50 16 BFG g-Force Sport COMP-2 tires More tire will make this behemoth handle worse than it does now. Actually it handles "amazingly flat" -
While I DO respect your posts and find you to be pretty knowledgeable, I find THIS quite curious: "WORSE than it does now"? That sounds like the words of a European biased auto journalist.
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Re: Tires for street and some track use
[Re: ThermoQuad]
#1232193
05/14/12 04:26 AM
05/14/12 04:26 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader
Swears too much
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Swears too much
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
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Quote:
Since I received a pm about this I will attempt to share some information about tires and what works on a street driven car that can survive hot laps on a road course. This is the handling section, not the drag race section.
Here is what works, if you got something better show me with results
10 inches of tread,
26 inch tall tire
8 inch wide wheel
4.5 inches of backspace
All 4 wheels and tires the same size.
[If it's an A body I am not experienced enough with those cars but i have some one right now building a 66 Plymouth Valiant for beating up corvettes and porches. Stay tuned]
How you get there is not my problem. 15 16 17 18 19 inch tire it's still
10 inches of tread,
26 inches tall,
8 inch wide wheel
4.5 inches of backspace.
All 4 wheels and tires the same size.
All those hair pulling time wasting questions about tires and wheel sizes all go away if you just follow what works well.
If you think you need more tire you're wasting your time.
A 255 50 16 tire is a very large tire.
I have run on 15 and 16 inch tires. BFG, Toyo, Yokahama, Michelin.
Currently on a 1970 Charger R/T we have 255-50 16 BFG g-Force Sport COMP-2 tires 16x8 wheels 4.5 backspace. Nice tires. The car is lowered with still plenty of travel in the suspension. Imagine that! See the pic in the other thread. Low enough? More tire will make this behemoth handle worse than it does now. Actually it handles "amazingly flat" -not my words, instructors words- on the 255-50 16 BFG g-Force Sport COMP-2. If I told what rear springs and bars we used to make that happen you would be surprised.
If I want it to handle better than it already does all I have to do is plunk down about $1100.00 for 4 toyo competition tires 255-50-16 tire. It's that simple.
I also wonder about that, though i assume you're speaking generally, and also that most posters here wont drive a car hard enough to need more tire. Am i close? Certainly you must concede that more tire = more contact patch, which all things being equal, is always better?
Two questions though:
One, how important is it that all four tires be the same size? I see a lot ov staggered stances out there in 'pro touring' land... but most ov the truly fast old cars i've seen have 4 identical rollers.
I'm not talking ridiculous stagger here, like say, 295/35/18's out back and 225/'s up front, that to me is hardly what i'd call a corner carver. Just stagger like the 275/40 and 335/35 you see on Vipers or 255/275 stagger many old Mopars end up with.
And two, how do you like BFG G-Force KDW-2's compared to other tires? I ask because that is one tire i've had the opportunity to buy new and abuse over a long time. They are a very good frame ov reference for me.
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Re: Tires for street and some track use
[Re: Kern Dog]
#1232195
05/14/12 07:32 AM
05/14/12 07:32 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,468
Answering the call of the wild
ThermoQuad
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,468
Answering the call of the wild
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The comment about larger tires making handling worse than it does now was meant to be humorous because the car handles so well for the big fat pig that it is on a tire many think is too small for some reason. You do not need huge tires to handle properly but you do need the right size. Think about worse case - 2 or 4 wheels off the track and you are trying not to crash and the tire runs out of room and hits the car while under full jounce or rebound... More contact patch is not always better. It's a about proper balance and the car rotating thru the turn and the tire fitting in the "center of the wheel well" Mike Martins book on handling Two questions answered One How important is it that all four tires be the same size? For these cars it's important. Ever heard of over/understeer, handling balance and turn rotation? Plus with good tires being expensive you want to be able to rotate them or swap one to the front if you have flat and have to run the spare...safety first, ego second. Two I see a lot of staggered stances out there in 'pro touring' land... but most of the truly fast old cars i've seen have 4 identical rollers. Bring that so called protouring car with staggered stances to the glen and let me test it...I doubt it will hold up to the stress test or rotate properly.  I only need one lap to tell you what's happening. Staggard stance is for egos, old thinking and Drag racing. This is the handling forum. And three How do you like BFG G-Force KDW-2's compared to other tires? Great tires even for the track as competition tires make a world of difference. One of the best tires in 17+ yrs of Watkins Glen flogging As far as the suspension set up and springs and t bars when you guys figure out that bigger is not always better but welding in critical areas is a mandatory requirement we can discuss springs t bars sway bars and set ups.
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Re: Tires for street and some track use
[Re: ThermoQuad]
#1232196
05/14/12 11:32 AM
05/14/12 11:32 AM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
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Pfffft. Tom I appreciate all your input but dont assume that us guys havent figured out anything because we dont live next door to Watkins Glen. Come the [Email]f@#$[/Email] on, really? "When we figure out welding in critical areas....?" Have you not seen the K member thread? Frame connectors are probably in every fricken car on this site. I totally get that alot of times less is more and slower in faster. I love the Pro Touring look and am gonna rock my 275/335 combo because its the biggest tire I can fit on my car and my car will be tuned to utilize them.
Last edited by 72Swinger; 05/14/12 11:33 AM.
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: Tires for street and some track use
[Re: ThermoQuad]
#1232199
05/15/12 07:15 AM
05/15/12 07:15 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader
Swears too much
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Swears too much
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
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Quote:
The comment about larger tires making handling worse than it does now was meant to be humorous because the car handles so well for the big fat pig that it is on a tire many think is too small for some reason. You do not need huge tires to handle properly but you do need the right size. Think about worse case - 2 or 4 wheels off the track and you are trying not to crash and the tire runs out of room and hits the car while under full jounce or rebound...
More contact patch is not always better.
It's a about proper balance and the car rotating thru the turn and the tire fitting in the "center of the wheel well" Mike Martins book on handling
So on these E-bodies that is achieved (on the front) with a neutral wheel? (backspace exactly half ov total width) That tells me i can fit an 8" wheel (9" total width) up front with a 4.5" backspace? Thats about what i came up with with my measuring and eyeballin'... Looks like i'm on the right track. While i'm still sticking with 15's that is.
Quote:
Two questions answered
One
How important is it that all four tires be the same size?
For these cars it's important. Ever heard of over/understeer, handling balance and turn rotation? Plus with good tires being expensive you want to be able to rotate them or swap one to the front if you have flat and have to run the spare...safety first, ego second.
Still with ya here. The only reason i want huge rear meats, if i'm being honest, is for the look. I fully realize that i could make this car cook with 4 275/40/17's. Wonder whether the ego will win this time...
Quote:
Two
I see a lot of staggered stances out there in 'pro touring' land... but most of the truly fast old cars i've seen have 4 identical rollers.
Bring that so called protouring car with staggered stances to the glen and let me test it...I doubt it will hold up to the stress test or rotate properly. I only need one lap to tell you what's happening. Staggard stance is for egos, old thinking and Drag racing. This is the handling forum.
Heh heh... i see what you did there...
I'd have to agree... but the internal conflict is growing...
Quote:
And three
How do you like BFG G-Force KDW-2's compared to other tires?
Great tires even for the track as competition tires make a world of difference. One of the best tires in 17+ yrs of Watkins Glen flogging
Good to hear. Its one ov the few tires i like that they make in the sizes i like... and i'm hoping for a miracle here... that they'll still be making them (not disco'd like all the other cool tires) when i have the money to afford them. I've always found them excellent performers on the 96 Mustang GT (275/35/18 and 295/35/18 on 18x9 and 18x10" wheels). Cant keep brakes on the damn car since we installed them though...
Quote:
As far as the suspension set up and springs and t bars when you guys figure out that bigger is not always better but welding in critical areas is a mandatory requirement we can discuss springs t bars sway bars and set ups.
I assume you're talking about the less discussed chassis mods like seam-welding and the less 'glamorous' gussets, along with the usual subframe connectors and maybe a bar?
After smashing out more rust today in thbe floors and trunk its obvious that i'm going to have to learn to weld to put this car on the road. My friend was gonna do it for me, but today it became apparent than my needs are beyond the scope we had when he offered. So while i'm doing that i'll be stiffening this beast up as well. But thats another thread...
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Re: Tires for street and some track use
[Re: autoxcuda]
#1232200
05/18/12 03:28 PM
05/18/12 03:28 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,285
West Coast, USA
jbc426
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,285
West Coast, USA
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Quote:
Quote:
Pfffft. Tom I appreciate all your input but dont assume that us guys havent figured out anything because we dont live next door to Watkins Glen. Come the [Email]f@#$[/Email] on, really? "When we figure out welding in critical areas....?" Have you not seen the K member thread? Frame connectors are probably in every fricken car on this site. I totally get that alot of times less is more and slower in faster. I love the Pro Touring look and am gonna rock my 275/335 combo because its the biggest tire I can fit on my car and my car will be tuned to utilize them.
I think he's more talking about welding up the chassis and body. At some point you've got stiff springs/shocks on a wet noodle on a road course.
Bob Reed is an experienced touring road racer. He now instructs at Willow Springs. He's got a well setup for handling 68 Barracuda. It's got subframe connectors and welded K-member.
A few years ago Bob drove Tim Werners red 68 Valiant that AndyF posts and writes articles about. The 68 Valiant has a full roll cage in it and 1.24" T-bars.
Well, Bob really liked Tim's car. Mostly impressed with how rigid the roll caged chassis gave precision. He had a chassis to take advantage of the huge T-bars. When going to back to Bob's Barracuda he could tell the difference in the chassis. His lap times were much slower and just the different feel of the car, even though he had at that time more horsepower.
Bob's Barracuda runs consistent times at Willow Spring big track near his personal Chrysler 300 SRT-8. That SRT-8 is no slouch. He's calls the setup on his Barracuda agressive street handling.
Not all car set-up's need to be the same to be successful. I've got some Drift Video of a '68 some what, high-riding Barracuda convertible doing pretty good on the road course at Willow Springs, and it still rides like a c-body on the open roads. It chased down the race prepared 24 hours of Lemons slanty in short order running on BF Goodrich radial TA's. I think it even surprised Bob when he took it around Willow Springs.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: Tires for street and some track use
[Re: jbc426]
#1232201
05/18/12 04:58 PM
05/18/12 04:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,471
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,471
So Cal
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Quote:
... I've got some Drift Video of a '68 some what, high-riding Barracuda convertible doing pretty good on the road course at Willow Springs, ...
Post that video to youtube. I wanna see it!!
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Re: Tires for street and some track use
[Re: autoxcuda]
#1232202
05/18/12 07:54 PM
05/18/12 07:54 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,285
West Coast, USA
jbc426
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,285
West Coast, USA
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Quote:
Quote:
... I've got some Drift Video of a '68 some what, high-riding Barracuda convertible doing pretty good on the road course at Willow Springs, ...
Post that video to youtube. I wanna see it!!
This one? or the video of the car?
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: Tires for street and some track use
[Re: PHJ426]
#1232203
05/18/12 08:31 PM
05/18/12 08:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,068
Irving, TX
feets
Senior Management
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Senior Management
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,068
Irving, TX
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Many of the Porsche race cars at work run Michelin Pilot Sport Cup tires. They're nice but SPENDY.
We stock Bridgestone RE11s for the common Porsche sizes. It's a good track/street tire.
For a good street/track tire try the Michelin Super Sports if you can find them in the right sizes. They're priced well and do a good job.
For heavy track use, shave them down for better performance. They will last just as long because the tall tread blocks squish around and wear down to shaved depth quickly.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
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