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Re: Should you be able to trust your engine builder?
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#1230185
05/09/12 12:27 PM
05/09/12 12:27 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,013
Finally a HUSKER again
Moparnut426
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,013
Finally a HUSKER again
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Quote:
If you are paying your hard earned money to an engine builder for a complete ready to go engine I would expect that things are machined and assembled correctly. In this case that is not what happened. Parts failures happen, but errors and damaged parts caused from incorrect machining, or incorrect assembly or lack of attention to detail are unacceptable. I know when we do work for customers if it is not right we make it right, at the agreed cost. Even if that means we do not make any money on the job. Right is right period.
T add to this, If you have a hired hand who does sub par work, and you as an owner dont have the time to double check everything thats done by your help, and you cant trust them its bye bye time for any workers not trusted. Hard to do, but needs to happen. Your name is on the work.
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Re: Should you be able to trust your engine builder?
[Re: 408strokerdart]
#1230186
05/09/12 12:27 PM
05/09/12 12:27 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,300
Northern Indiana
Dunnuck Racing
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,300
Northern Indiana
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This is not at all a slam at you,or at Shady Dell,but have you called him and tried to work out something? Just curious,as many guys seem to come on and slam someone before resolving the issue another way. I would hope/expect him to at least try to help you out IF you followed any instructions he gave you for break in and maintenence. The main broblem I have with the deal is that you stated he ran in an engine and sent it out but never qualified it on his dyno? I know a lot of home built engines are done that way but anybody that builds engines for a living I would think would qualify one before letting it out the door. Just curious.  Keith
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Re: Should you be able to trust your engine builder?
[Re: Dunnuck Racing]
#1230187
05/09/12 12:57 PM
05/09/12 12:57 PM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 636
Central,Ohio
FASTFISH420
mopar
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mopar
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 636
Central,Ohio
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The same thing has happened to me with a well known builder also.I just changed builders and have been very happy with him.
Who is building your stuff now if you mind me asking?
1969 Barracuda 8 second all/motor small block
2014 Shelby GT500 Mustang
Uratchko Racing Engines
www.URE-RACING.com
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Re: Should you be able to trust your engine builder?
[Re: Moparnut426]
#1230188
05/09/12 01:02 PM
05/09/12 01:02 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,456
Out West
408strokerdart
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,456
Out West
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Quote:
To answer the origional question, Yes, like you would trust your wife or family. As for what happened, WOW, just wow. Sorry to hear about that man. I know there are plenty out here who will tell ya to check and double check anyones work, but a complete and assembled engine that went south in 50 passes, thats sub par in so many ways.
Hope Ryan steps up and helps ya out on this one.
Im sure you dont want a complete refund as this is racing and schiat does happen, but I would think something refunded would come about.
Sorry man, that sucks big time!!
Not looking for any help.....I already bent over for the repairs. The repair work was done right and at a reasonable cost. I am only reporting facts.
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Re: Should you be able to trust your engine builder?
[Re: Dunnuck Racing]
#1230190
05/09/12 01:13 PM
05/09/12 01:13 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,456
Out West
408strokerdart
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,456
Out West
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Quote:
This is not at all a slam at you,or at Shady Dell,but have you called him and tried to work out something? Just curious,as many guys seem to come on and slam someone before resolving the issue another way.
I would hope/expect him to at least try to help you out IF you followed any instructions he gave you for break in and maintenence.
The main broblem I have with the deal is that you stated he ran in an engine and sent it out but never qualified it on his dyno?
I know a lot of home built engines are done that way but anybody that builds engines for a living I would think would qualify one before letting it out the door.
Just curious.
Keith
I appreciate your post Keith. The issues that made this bullet self destruct would not have been seen with 3 or 5 dyno pulls.
I've stated this several times and will only post facts. If someone wants to use this information in their decision making, then great....if not, good luck to them.
I will not return my parts to someone (even on their dime) if they already proved they couldn't get it right the first time. These fundamental errors were there from the start.
If you had a fender bender with your red car and the bodyshop repaired it and painted it blue how much faith would you have in them to do it again? Even after they explained how "pretty" the blue was.
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Re: Should you be able to trust your engine builder?
[Re: FASTFISH420]
#1230191
05/09/12 01:15 PM
05/09/12 01:15 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,456
Out West
408strokerdart
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,456
Out West
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Quote:
The same thing has happened to me with a well known builder also.I just changed builders and have been very happy with him.
Who is building your stuff now if you mind me asking?
I will be doing the assembly, but have someone else doing the heads/cam package. I should have everything back in my hands within a week.
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Re: Should you be able to trust your engine builder?
[Re: Jeepmon]
#1230192
05/09/12 01:19 PM
05/09/12 01:19 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,456
Out West
408strokerdart
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,456
Out West
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Quote:
Accidents and oversights is going to happen.. doesnt matter who you are and what your reputation is..
IMO what most important is those that stand up and take responsibility when they do screw up.. I'd like to know what Shady Dell has said to you about this mishap..
I have not contacted the shop. I know myself to well as to the action I might take if the result was not satisfactory so I choose not to. There is no excuse for the mistakes made. Looks like a high schooler put it together, only with parts he couldn't afford himself.
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Re: Should you be able to trust your engine builder?
[Re: 408strokerdart]
#1230193
05/09/12 01:28 PM
05/09/12 01:28 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,300
Northern Indiana
Dunnuck Racing
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,300
Northern Indiana
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I appreciate your post Keith. The issues that made this bullet self destruct would not have been seen with 3 or 5 dyno pulls. I understand what you are saying,but a lot of problems with valvetrain can be found on a dyno that you won't see or feel at the track. That,and he should have had a pretty good idea of how the engine should have run as far as power and tq. curves go,and been able to see an issue before it became a major problem. Just an opinion,but am really sorry to see anybody have major issues. Yes everybody makes mistakes,myself included. It is how we handle these mistakes that seperate us.  Keith
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Re: Should you be able to trust your engine builder?
[Re: 408strokerdart]
#1230194
05/09/12 01:33 PM
05/09/12 01:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
Taking time off to work on my car
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Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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Quote:
I will not return my parts to someone (even on their dime) if they already proved they couldn't get it right the first time. These fundamental errors were there from the start.
...
I have not contacted the shop. I know myself to well as to the action I might take if the result was not satisfactory so I choose not to.
Are you saying that you haven't even contacted Ryan about this now-public issue and his first knowledge of it will probably be reading it on here?
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Re: Should you be able to trust your engine builder?
[Re: 408strokerdart]
#1230196
05/09/12 01:58 PM
05/09/12 01:58 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,178
Indy
FlyFish
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,178
Indy
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Quote:
Quote:
Accidents and oversights is going to happen.. doesnt matter who you are and what your reputation is..
IMO what most important is those that stand up and take responsibility when they do screw up.. I'd like to know what Shady Dell has said to you about this mishap..
I have not contacted the shop. I know myself to well as to the action I might take if the result was not satisfactory so I choose not to. There is no excuse for the mistakes made. Looks like a high schooler put it together, only with parts he couldn't afford himself.
If you are just stating facts, then please get your own story strait:
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...part=1&vc=1
Quote:
Quote:
When did you check the lash prior to discovering this?
About 40 passes ago.
At the top of this post you claim to lash your valves ~ every 20 passes.
Everyone makes mistakes, sometimes BIG mistakes, it is how they are dealt with that matters more to me. The fact that you have not even contacted the builder (Shady Dell) and decided to trash them publicly is VERY poor form indeed. Give the man a chance to at least TRY to set things right....there are usually 2 sides to a story.
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Re: Should you be able to trust your engine builder?
[Re: BradH]
#1230197
05/09/12 02:08 PM
05/09/12 02:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,724
Portage,michigan
B3422W5
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,724
Portage,michigan
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Quote:
Quote:
I will not return my parts to someone (even on their dime) if they already proved they couldn't get it right the first time. These fundamental errors were there from the start.
...
I have not contacted the shop. I know myself to well as to the action I might take if the result was not satisfactory so I choose not to.
Are you saying that you haven't even contacted Ryan about this now-public issue and his first knowledge of it will probably be reading it on here?
I think what the OP is saying is that the mistakes made are just flat stupid, and the fact the motor was put together like that seriously undermines the OP's ability to trust anything the builder could do to make things right.
I had issue as well with the same builder over several different things with work i had done, but its water under the bridge now.
I give the OP a ton of credit for correctly pointing out what he did.
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight
418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam
Best so far, low 10.30’s 1/4
1.41 best 60 foot
6.56 at 104.17
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Re: Should you be able to trust your engine builder?
[Re: FlyFish]
#1230198
05/09/12 02:09 PM
05/09/12 02:09 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,013
Finally a HUSKER again
Moparnut426
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,013
Finally a HUSKER again
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Accidents and oversights is going to happen.. doesnt matter who you are and what your reputation is..
IMO what most important is those that stand up and take responsibility when they do screw up.. I'd like to know what Shady Dell has said to you about this mishap..
I have not contacted the shop. I know myself to well as to the action I might take if the result was not satisfactory so I choose not to. There is no excuse for the mistakes made. Looks like a high schooler put it together, only with parts he couldn't afford himself.
If you are just stating facts, then please get your own story strait:
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...part=1&vc=1
Quote:
Quote:
When did you check the lash prior to discovering this?
About 40 passes ago.
At the top of this post you claim to lash your valves ~ every 20 passes.
Everyone makes mistakes, sometimes BIG mistakes, it is how they are dealt with that matters more to me. The fact that you have not even contacted the builder (Shady Dell) and decided to trash them publicly is VERY poor form indeed. Give the man a chance to at least TRY to set things right....there are usually 2 sides to a story.
I agree about contacting him prior to posting, but this dude isnt worried about sending his stuff back to someone who messed it up in the first place, If he was worried about the cost, which he dosnt seem to be, then take it back to the origional guy. But in this case, he is PISSED, and just wants a running engine again. As for seeing what Ryan will do about it, thats up to him and the customer. I havent seen a peep out of Ryan in a while, I dont know if we will hear anything on this post from him either.
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Re: Should you be able to trust your engine builder?
[Re: Moparnut426]
#1230199
05/09/12 02:23 PM
05/09/12 02:23 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,080
organ
maximum entropy
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,080
organ
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there is nothing more frustrating than not being given the opportunity to make something right.  this whole thing smells a little funny to me.
for what is the good life if not doing things thoughtfully?
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Re: Should you be able to trust your engine builder?
[Re: maximum entropy]
#1230200
05/09/12 02:35 PM
05/09/12 02:35 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,418
Mcallen, TX
SB449VALIANT
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,418
Mcallen, TX
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Quote:
there is nothing more frustrating than not being given the opportunity to make something right. this whole thing smells a little funny to me.
Danggg! This is all bad, i know Ryan pretty good, just call him, thats the best 3 words that i can say......
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Re: Should you be able to trust your engine builder?
[Re: maximum entropy]
#1230201
05/09/12 02:35 PM
05/09/12 02:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,724
Portage,michigan
B3422W5
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,724
Portage,michigan
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Quote:
there is nothing more frustrating than not being given the opportunity to make something right. this whole thing smells a little funny to me.
I dont have a dog in this fight but understand the OP's fellings well.
I own a car dealership and sold a lady a car. It was high milegae and was sold as is to her( 170,000 miles on it)
She had problems with it a week later, and i agreed to pay half the service bill to fix it. Sent the car to a place i used at that time,( dont anymore) and to round the corners off, the work we paid to get done wasnt, but the bill was paid anyhow, not knowing the work wasnt completed correctly, and at all.
Fast forward a year, the lady( who i thought was all fixed up and happy) continued to have problems and took the car to three different garages, who all stated the work she( and I) had paid for hadnt gotten done.The third place did the work.
So she had the work completed, after finding all this out, and wrote me a threatening letter. I read it, called her, and paid the other half of the bill, made her happy.
I asked her why didnt you call me way back when instead of dealing with this lingering problem. She said i will never go back to the shop you used, if they are like this, i wouldnt ever trust them again, i agreed wholeheartedly with her. She was so worried i would
have the same shop look at it that she decided to handle it on her own.
Last edited by B3422W5; 05/09/12 02:38 PM.
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight
418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam
Best so far, low 10.30’s 1/4
1.41 best 60 foot
6.56 at 104.17
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Re: Should you be able to trust your engine builder?
[Re: B3422W5]
#1230202
05/09/12 02:38 PM
05/09/12 02:38 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,380
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,380
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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Quote:
I think what the OP is saying is that the mistakes made are just flat stupid, and the fact the motor was put together like that seriously undermines the OP's ability to trust anything the builder could do to make things right.
 Sorry to see this type of situation...it sucks for everyone involved. I've been there before too.
CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: Should you be able to trust your engine builder?
[Re: Moparnut426]
#1230203
05/09/12 02:41 PM
05/09/12 02:41 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,547
State College, PA
RyanJ
moparts member
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moparts member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,547
State College, PA
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No, I was never contacted about any of this this via phone or email etc... & this would be the first I have read about it, as I was emailed this link from another customer. I do not visit or read moparts anymore so I don't have any knowledge of past posts etc. Only things I am going to say about it is this: If Brian had contacted me when he first had issues, I may have helped him out... he chose not to. On the spring choice, yes I ran it further than .050" from Coil bind... alot of valve springs over the years have been ran further than .050" from CB on open & not immediately caused failures. When I put that motor together in the spring of 2008 that is the spring I chose. I felt it was better to have too much pressure than not enough on a roller that would get turned decent RPM. (low 8000's with a 3.79 crank) Today, we do try to run smaller diameter, lower IH springs that are run tighter to CB if possible on our race builds. Brian supplied the valves for those heads & they gave a very tall installed height, which limited valve spring choices greatly, generally to larger OD, larger CB springs. The smaller OD, high pressure, small wire PAC stuff available today was just entering the market 4 years ago, so to sit back today & look at what is available today VS: 4-5 years ago is apples to oranges. & lastly & this will be my last comments on the subject, but I felt was a pretty relevant one that I have not seen mentioned: Brian supplied the Crane Ultra Pro lifters that failed & if my memory serves me they were USED that he purchased off of ebay or a classified site. He was aware there was risk associated with them, who knows how many passes were on them or what type of engine they came out of (most likely a 410" GM sprint car?) & how much use was on them. To sit there & say that my valve spring choice is what lead to the early failure of the lifters can never be proven... it's speculative at best & especially so when the lifters were used to begin with with an unknown history. I have ran Comp triple springs on several motors over the years including ones that have came back through the shop for freshen etc & have not noticed any unusual valvetrain issues associated with them, even being ran .200" + from CB. That being said, every engine is different in how it will transfer harmonics etc... Sometimes you just "miss" the proper parts selection in the valvetrain.. alot of times this can be caught on the dyno, by watching the raw airflow data & how the motor works at high RPM @ various acceleration speeds... unfortunately that motor never got dynoed. Now... If I am wrong on the lifters being used, then I apologize, I build about 30-35 engines a year.... Spring 2008 to Spring 2012 means well over 100 have passed through my hands in that time & hard to remember every minute detail of all of them, but I do see on his invoice that we did not supply lifters, I know he supplied them & from my recollection they were used units. I am far from perfect, I make mistakes EVERY DAY (I think we all do to some extent) but I try my best... not communicating with your builder when you have issues is not the best way to try to resolve disputes etc. & coming onto a public forum & blasting my valve spring choices again after zero communication/discussion about any of this really tells a story in itself.
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PETTIS PERFORMANCE............just ask Chris, Al and others.........one of the best hands down. 
