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The hot spot in the head and deck surface, big block
#1227499
05/05/12 11:07 AM
05/05/12 11:07 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,864
S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
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This has annoyed me for years, and I never came up with a way to take care of it or asked before...
Has anyone developed a method to cool the hot spot in the center of the head and/or center of the deck surface?
Right between 4 and 6, and between 3 and 5.
Other than relocating the ports....any known tricks, etc?
Last night I started tearing down the 440 that I ran in the GTX for like 14 years, and it's just like every other B-RB motor I have ever worked on.....right in the middle of the deck surface, there are signs of heat and a possible small amount of head gasket movement.
This is an 8.8:1 484 purple shaft engine, and it isn't like it was highly stressed. I used steel shim head gaskets and copper coat the last time I had the heads off....the copper coat is still there all around the deck surface, but right in the middle it's blackened and there are definite signs of the head gasket moving around.
It didn't leak that I could detect, but leakage between cylinders only when running can be difficult to find.
Every one I have worked on did not look as nice as I would like in that one spot....stock, modified, my engines, other peoples engines, composite gaskets, steel shim gaskets, does not seem to matter....gaskets don't like the heat from the two center exhaust ports. It always changes color in that spot.
I've never used mls other than gen 3 hemis, not sure if those gaskets will take the heat better? But it seems to me it would be preferable to cool the metal off somehow....
Last edited by ZIPPY; 05/05/12 11:11 AM.
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
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Re: The hot spot in the head and deck surface, big block
[Re: ZIPPY]
#1227500
05/05/12 11:32 AM
05/05/12 11:32 AM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger
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master
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Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
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It used to be common on hard hit nitrous motors for people to drill and tap a 4an fitting in between and below those exhaust ports in the heads and run lines to the thermostat housing.
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: The hot spot in the head and deck surface, big block
[Re: Dean_Kuzluzski]
#1227504
05/05/12 10:07 PM
05/05/12 10:07 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,512
PA
moparacer
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master
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,512
PA
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My old W7 aluminum small block engine had -4 lines running from the block up to the head just under the exhaust ports for that.
67 Barracuda street/bracket car 11.27-119
68 Dart 502 BB 8.70s-152
414 cid SB Dragster 7.65-174
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Re: The hot spot in the head and deck surface, big block
[Re: hemi-itis]
#1227505
05/05/12 10:42 PM
05/05/12 10:42 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,647
aotearoa
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aotearoa
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Quote:
Wonder if the reverse water pump deal would help  
i feel it does, when i fitted my reverse flow pump i had on the previous build drilled thru my head gasket in this area, with the reverse flow pump it dropped 20* on the pyros & with the previous std flow pump it also had dropped nearly 20*, so its a total of almost 40 all up. they (the pyros)still run a little warmer in this area.
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Re: The hot spot in the head and deck surface, big block
[Re: 72Swinger]
#1227509
05/06/12 01:06 AM
05/06/12 01:06 AM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger
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Nebraska
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You can see here where the lines go into the pump housing...
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: The hot spot in the head and deck surface, big block
[Re: 72Swinger]
#1227510
05/06/12 09:09 AM
05/06/12 09:09 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
Too Many Posts
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Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
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since most fixes seem to be in the cooling system, it must be due to lack of coolant flow, but my initial thoughts were "that's where the exhaust ports open up to flow out and across the intake manifold" could it be exhaust port design/location that makes that section hotter?
**Photobucket sucks**
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Re: The hot spot in the head and deck surface, big block
[Re: ZIPPY]
#1227512
05/06/12 09:38 AM
05/06/12 09:38 AM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
MattW
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Ontario Canada
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Quote:
Quote:
It used to be common on hard hit nitrous motors for people to drill and tap a 4an fitting in between and below those exhaust ports in the heads and run lines to the thermostat housing.
Quote:
It used to be common on hard hit nitrous motors for people to drill and tap a 4an fitting in between and below those exhaust ports in the heads and run lines to the thermostat housing.
That's interesting, I have never seen that.
I wonder if the drilled passage should turn 90 deg. down and through the deck surface of the block......or if it would just circulate outward from the head?
seems like it should go through the block....
Seems like reverse cooling should help the overall head temp, and might be enough to take care of it also, maybe?
Zippy go to Moparchats . com there a section about smallblock cooling.
It address this issue and maybe helpful to you 
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Re: The hot spot in the head and deck surface, big block
[Re: MattW]
#1227513
05/06/12 09:49 AM
05/06/12 09:49 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,010
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
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Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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Electric reverse flow pump and plumbing lines right to the heads like the photo of 73Swingers' has got to be the best fix of them all. Fresh coolant right out of the radiator to the hot spot first. That extra flow is really needed on a gas burning deal with two cylinders exhaust being right side by side from the valve seats to the outside of the head. Not nearly as much coolant can get there as the next best spot which would be the end of each head. Where the intakes are paired, I'll bet the temps run several degrees cooler than the average.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: The hot spot in the head and deck surface, big block
[Re: 70Cuda383]
#1227514
05/06/12 12:05 PM
05/06/12 12:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,864
S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
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S.E. Michigan
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Quote:
could it be exhaust port design/location that makes that section hotter?
Absolutely, I am pretty confident in saying that's what causes it....two exhaust ports right next to each other. There is coolant flow in the block below it, and coolant flow in the head above it, but the two aren't connected.
Why not? No clue there
If connected per dwayne welder's comments, that would probably take care of most of it. That + the external plumbing is attacking it two ways, and bet that would do it 110%. Great food for thought there, thank you.
As far as getting a real cam, c'mon now, I'm running around on the street with a .631 solid roller these days 
If I get a minute later might put up some pictures so folks understand what I am talking about....but it seems like many of us would already be familiar with it (?)
Thanks for the input all, might have to put these ideas to work sometime.
It seems like a weak point in the engine design that usually is not addressed....but maybe it should be, even for mild engines, just for reliability's sake.
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
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Re: The hot spot in the head and deck surface, big block
[Re: ZIPPY]
#1227515
05/06/12 02:18 PM
05/06/12 02:18 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
Sport440
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Canton, Ohio
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There is a old trick that I read about from Paul Rossi. He would drill a hole to make a water port dead center in both the bottom of the head and top of the block. In the article he stated that MP did in with some heads used on motorhomes.
He had pics of the Motorhome head and the ones that he modified to match. I did that mod to my eddies too. I may still have that artcle around. I dont know how well it works though. But Paul did recomend it. mike
Last edited by Sport440; 05/06/12 03:20 PM.
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Re: The hot spot in the head and deck surface, big block
[Re: hooziewhatsit]
#1227517
05/06/12 06:59 PM
05/06/12 06:59 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
MattW
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Ontario Canada
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Quote:
Quote:
Zippy go to Moparchats . com there a section about smallblock cooling.
It address this issue and maybe helpful to you
I was wondering if the small block stuff at moparchat would apply here, since I don't really know 440s yet 
He recommends drilling I think a 1/8" hole between the cylinders through the deck, gasket, and head. It seems like that would be a pretty simple mod to match what the other cylinders do, and get a little coolant through. Seems like it shouldn't hurt at any rate.
I think it was also for air pockets.
I was thinking about doing this to my Indy smallblock heads.
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Re: The hot spot in the head and deck surface, big block
[Re: MattW]
#1227518
05/06/12 10:41 PM
05/06/12 10:41 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,864
S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
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I Live Here
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OP
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Sorry for the picture quality. I'm probably going to round up some more gear to improve that aspect...a light, a tripod, and a background would probably do wonders....but for now this will have to do.
Stock block, nothing there in the middle, no coolant passage. I cleaned up the burned copper coat but wish I had left it....did not plan on taking any pics...
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
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